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#71638 - 04/06/03 05:25 AM Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Nathan LaChine Offline
Webmaster
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 5378
Loc: Washington State
I have been asking my self this for some time now brothers. As some of you know I am 19 and have a wife. I am having sexual relations issue from my sa. I am unable to have sex with her. I come down once or twice every couple of weeks and masterbeat to gay porn.

Am I gay because I enjoy gay porn? I have had no gay relationships since I was an adult. I love my wife but am I gay?


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#71639 - 04/06/03 06:18 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Dear brother Nathan,
Am I remembering that you are seeing a therapist? The reason that I begin this with that comment is that this is such an individual inquiry. Now that I've gotten that out of the way, let me say this about that.
You're such a young man and still forming your sexual self. Some of us--not me, that's for sure, don't seem to have any real questions about who we'd like to go to bed with. Those of us who have had the trauma and the confusion of sex abuse, have to work a lot harder at working out our identities.
This is just me, now, so this may not apply to you, but it might explain how complicated sex abuse can be for some of us.
My therapist explained to me that I seemed to use my thoughts and fears of homosexuality as a way of putting myself down, that I used my negative thoghts about my sexual confusion as a way to punish myself. "You'll never get it right doing it that way," my father always said when I tried to do anything, causing me to doubt whether I was good at anything. Awfully debilitating and undermining for the developing young boy that I was.
I don't know how any of this may apply to you, but because you said that you loved your wife, I'm assuming that you've had somewhat satisfying sex with her in the past. I'm thinking that this is definately something to discuss with your therapist.
Most of us can panic about such issues and it is my hope, Nathan, that you will see yourself as becoming, and give yourself some time to let it happen, and know that with your attitude of wanting to know about yourself, it will happen. You will know your self and I'm betting that you're gunna like what you find. I'm already liking you and I know other brothers here like you too; it may even be love we feel for you, younger brother, Nathan.
You hang in there, you gotta a lot to give and I'll bet you gunna get just what you want, too.
With love and encouragement,
David.

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#71640 - 04/06/03 10:26 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
I agree with David. I've known several men who were survivors, got married and had children, but eventually divorced because the marriage did not "change" their homosexuality/bisexuality. In the end, they realized that they were gay.

One thing that should be discussed with your therapist is whether the same sex feelings and fantasies are related to the sexual abuse you experienced earlier in your life. Sexual orientation is a complex issue. It is not "caused" by sexual abuse, but premature sexual stimulation can create a focus or eroticization to male genitalia or other aspects connected with the abuse (i.e., attraction to older men in fathering roles).

It is a complicated issue that really can't be addressed in this forum but should be dealt with in therapy.

Ken


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#71641 - 04/06/03 04:03 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
Nathan,

FYI, I broached this subject with my T and she keeps telling me to work on my other stuff first, and that I will know when the time is right to work on this issue. OK.....I'm waiting patiently, (a year since I asked her, 15 years since I asked my wife, etc. etc. etc. )

Peace

orodo

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#71642 - 04/06/03 04:28 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
Nathan - I agree with ksinger's response especially that our orientation may be mixed up due to the abuse. I wrote a response to a similar question (I think it was to Sick Puppy) you may want to find it. It goes into much detail about my own confrontation with gay feelings.

One test I frequently use with others struggling with identity issues is to ask about fantasy during intercourse. Most guys in prison will engage at some time in homosexual acts. They generally fantasy about their favorite girlfriend when engaged in sex. Those who engage in gay fantasies, even when engaged in hetero- sexual intercourse, may want to explore their gay feelings.

Another test is: if you were on a desert island and you had a naked guy or naked female; who would you desire most? Test two: If you were on a deserted island and a had to chose between a naked guy and your wife, what would you do or think? Each result can lead to exploration with your T.

Hope this helped! Questions? PM me!!

Howard

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

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#71643 - 04/06/03 07:55 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Nathan
this question consumed me for well over 30 years, and in that time I've acted out with other men.

I've been married for 28 years, and I've used 'gay sex' as fantasy.
Whei I looked at online porn it was gay porn, I react to hetero porn in a different way, I admire the gorgeous girls - gay porn I just focus closly on the actual sex acts. The looks, shape, age and colour of the men involved are completly unimportant, it's just the dead basic sex acts. Which is all I was interested in when acting out.

The 'test' I always use is who's butt do you watch in tight jeans, the girls or the boys ?
I've always watched the girls.

Being gay is about loving another guy, the way straight men love women, I can't see any difference in that at all with my gay friends.
And I have never used them, or any other guy I know or have seen in a fantasy.

Abuse confuses us, deeply confuses us, and it took years of therapy for me to realise that I wasn't gay. And that the man on man sex I used, still use sometimes, as fantasy has nothing to do with being gay and everything to do with what I was left with by my abuse.
And having said that, I don't believe people can be made gay by homosexual sex as children.
It's deeper than that.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#71644 - 04/06/03 08:11 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Sum12Watch Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 15
Loc: NE
Nathan,
I am not a survivor, but a friend and family. I read your post and agree whole heartedly with Ken and Dave.
I am lucky, in the respect, that my SA discussed this early with his therapist (in fact, before the memories of the abuse came up and again afterword) and of that, he remained sure that his sexuality was not a response to the abuse, and it is my understanding from the research I have done since this all came up, that it never is. Do follow their advice and discuss this with your therapist. But most importantly, know that whatever the outcome, your sexuality is you, and either way straight or gay, you are a whole, wonderful human being.

_________________________
"Love yourself, like you want everyone to love you." - no author, just popped into my head tonight, plagarize the Golden Rule.

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#71645 - 04/12/03 11:27 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
hello all. To SUM12WATCH - Very well put. Too bad a hell of a lot of other people didn't feel this way. Bosishere \:\)


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#71646 - 04/12/03 11:43 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Nathan:

For a time after I was raped by a gay couple, right in the midst of adolescence at age 11, I had
struggles concerning my sexual orientation & identity. However I am quite heterosexual, twice married and married 23 years now.

I've had many friends & known several people who followed similar paths to my own.

It is possible that you may be married becuz you are heterosexual and that's just the way you are supposed to be.

My sexual acting out (porn) involves women not men due to my own upbringing & abuse and who knows
what other factors. My acting out doesn't mean I should be with any of those women in the pics & not my wife.

Due very possibly tho debatably to your upbringing
the particular types & the timings of the abuses you suffered, and who knows what other factors, you act out with male porn. Doesn't mean you should be with those men or any men (or women for that matter) other than your wife.

Nathan for what little bit I understand of love, I don't think that if you were gay you would love your wife.

IMHOFWIW.

Now I'm not saying that everyone who is homosexual is so becuz of CSA.

But just ask yourself what more probably came out of your CSA & issues involved: your acting out to gay porn or your love for your wife?

Take care Nathan & take it easy on yourself. Love your wife & let her love you.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#71647 - 04/13/03 07:56 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
Nathan, your story could very well have been written by me except for your age. I'm 43 and have been married 15 years now. Believe it or not, I have done what you've done, very comfortably and naturally secretively, every year of my marriage.

Before meeting my wife, at age 26, I had never ever been on a date with a woman and hence, never even kissed one, let alone had sex. I also had never fantasized or even had wet dreams about sex with women. Since when I was a boy, it was always about men.

In my case, I have some extra baggage: physical abuse by my father from birth to adulthood and SA from ages 6-12 by an older cousin. I haven't yet figured out exactly what role either one of these played in my grand confusion, naturally it has given me incredibly low self-esteem.

That issue of self esteem is the thing that destroys me and causes me to fantasize in order to find some moment of peace in me. When I go downstairs after faking it with my wife (yes guys, you can fake it too), my mind goes to my safe place where I can love me by making me someone else and pretending that the object in the picture loves that vision that I've created.

As for the sex with my wife, I can't say that I like it; it's very vanilla and has always been very mechanical. Plain and simple.

So now the dilemma. I've seen in the chat room here and also in some therapy textbooks that there is a world of thought around SA, marriage and homosexuality. It seems there is this idea that if you can "find" yourself (and I won't even get started on the whole "inner child" stuff...for another post) that you will know that you really are straight and can therefore be intimate with your wife and think only of her during sex instead of some guy you saw earlier at the mall. This world of thought also seems to indicate that if you were wounded as a boy and were "programmed" to think that friendship with a male = sex, then if you developed a "healthy" true friendship with another male then you'd not have that desire any more. This one in fact, I believe, is a double edged sword just waiting to impale: if you do have a close friendship with another male, first don't you think your wife would always wonder if you really are going fishing or did you go to a hotel. Second, what if you developed this friendship and it turned to something more?

I've chatted online here with at least two other married guy about this issue. I hope they read my post and will add their comments.

One last thing, Nathan. You are young, so when you make your decision, you won't have as much destruction to deal with and you should feel lucky there. Once you go 15 years and have 3 kids, your options dwindle to zero very quickly.

God, grant us peace and wisdom.


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