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#71535 - 10/10/02 11:35 AM help.............
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
I've got a question i'm wrestling with.....i'm hoping somebody out there can help me....I'm not sure if i'm gay or straight.....i've had quite a few offers to sleep with guys and girls, but sex so disturbs me, i have chosen not to sleep with either....every psychiatrist/psychologist i've seen tells me abuse took place, and most of the time i agree with them ......but i have so many lingering doubts.....somethings i know to be fact....one of those things led me to believe i was gay, but know with the abuse probability, i'm unsure...LET me explain.....when i was 5 years old, i had this fantasy that i was hercules and i had slaves that i would force to perform oral sex on me....i was 5 in 1963......i always just attributed this as the way i knew i was gay, why else would i have had such explicit fantasies at 5.....but, how many 5-year-olds knew about oral sex in 1963??????.....My question to you gay guys, did any of you have similar experiences????? i've tried to research this, but have been unable to find any info on this subject.....It is just so damn hard to believe my uncle sexually abused me.....for years, i just figured i was gay and was unable to deal with it and chose celibacy.....but i have no problems with gay people, no religous beliefs, etc.....that would make being gay impossible....although i was very involved in athletics throughout high school and college....i know there is a lot of homophobia inherent in those activities......i've been very flattered when guys come on to me, but am unable to be with them.....although i do masturbate thinking about the possibilities........as you can see, i'm one very messed up individual.....i would consider abuse throughout the years, but since my very macho straight uncle was the only man i was close to, and that was from the time i was born until 15 or so, i had to discount the possiblity....i finally admitted to a psychiatrist a few months ago after i attempted suicide again....i am living in constant torment.....is there anybody out there that has any experience similar to mine....i would love to find out that i'm just gay and was not sexually abused....i guess i need to tell you this part too.....the biggest reason i have not taken any guys up on their offers is that i feel like i'd freak out during/after sex.....i'm so afraid i'd go beserk and kill the guy or myself.....you see, i find sex very disgusting.........well, if there are any arm-chair therapists out there.....PLEASE HELP..........michael


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#71536 - 10/10/02 11:50 AM Re: help.............
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
I'm not sure if anyone can tell you that you were abused or not abused. I think knowing these things comes from within ourselves and not so much from what others think may have happened. Kind of a shaky area, but one I am very cautious about in my own personal life.

I once had a very wise person tell me that being abused by a male made you no more homosexual than being abused by a female makes you heterosexual. However, I do believe that we as survivors do struggle with sexual confusion issues a lot. I was exposed to sex at such a young age, long before my mind, body and sexual organs knew what to do with the exposure. So my very young self didn't know how to react to these things and had no vocabulary at the time to even describe these things.

I had a lot of sexual encouters with gals and gals but there was no intimacy and most of them I did not know or wouldn't have ever seen after that encounter. Then as I healed and started to get things together in my life, I started moving towards more healthy behaviors that ultimately led me to the partner I now have (and have been with for almost three years).

We're still trying to sort out what exactly our relationship is. We both struggle with this gay or not gay thing. And to be honest, we are at a point where we could care less what society wants to label us, because we just want to be with each other. It is something very intimate and personal between ourselves. But it is difficult as well because many people do not understand or accept it. I always thought I would be married and have a family just like most people in the world, but I think that was someone else's reality for my life, and not necesarily my reality. I'm happy with my partner and I never thought I could be with anyone for this long of time and grow as close as we have grown.

It sounds like you may be dealing with two different issues here. One would be the abuse and one would be the sexual orientation. Try to keep them separate because they really are separate. Try not to rush yourself through this but allow yourself the necessary time of self discovery that you need. Try to be open to yourself and be aware of what it is that you are seeking. I'm a firm believer that the answers we search for do lie within us. It is just not always an easy thing to do, to listen to them.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#71537 - 10/11/02 12:44 AM Re: help.............
Roy Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 184
Loc: Los Angeles
Hi Michael,

Well, it totally sucks (pun intended!) that you have been struggling so much with this issue for so long. It sounds like you have been in a lot of pain, having attempted suicide. I really agree with everything Don had to say above. The answer is in there somewhere, but there is no way to force it out. Also, like he said, sexual orientation and abuse are seperate issues, but one often complicates the other.

I definitely remember having sexual feelings directed toward other boys as young as age 6. I remember thinking in 1st grade that Peter McGill, sitting across from me, was really cute! I did the whole "playing doctor" thing with kids in the neighborhood, and was much more interested in examining the other boys and not the girls. I had them be nurses and go on errands to get things. \:\)

For me, the bottom line on sexual orientation is what makes your dick hard. Do you check out chicks in halter tops or shirtless construction workers? What and who do you think about when you jack off? What makes you cum?

As for the possibility of sexual abuse, that will emerge into your consciousness if and when you are ready to deal with it. I have a friend who had no recollection of ever being abused until, during the course of therapy about another issue, it came crashing into his awareness while sitting in traffic on an LA freeway at age 47. If you were abused, it may have been someone other than your uncle, someone you are not even aware of. Do you have symptoms common to those who have a history of childhood sexual abuse? Even if you do, though, if you don't remember you don't remember. You just can't force it.

Of all the information you presented in your post, the most alarming thing you said was that you "find sex very disgusting". What's that all about? I would start there with a therapist willing and able to get to the bottom of that mystery. While that may be a symptom of sexual abuse, it could also be about something else entirely. Until you unravel this issue to some degree, it will be difficult to explore your sexual orientation or anything else of a sexual nature.

Almost exclusively, other gay men believe that their attraction to other males is something that crept into their awareness at varying stages of development. It is something that has always been there, not something we chose. Ask heterosexuals if they felt like they had a choice in the matter, and chances are they will say no. They just were and are that way.

Good luck, my friend. Please feel free to ask whatever questions you wish. And, welcome.

Roy


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#71538 - 10/11/02 02:03 AM Re: help.............
mrsunshineguy Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/02
Posts: 67
Loc: Texas
Hi Michael B,

Try to take a deep breath,

You will be OK, really. Your brain is running way, way ahead of your heart. By that I mean, this is stuff of emotions not analysis. And the heart resolves these things in its own time and way.

But your concerns (and sort of panic) are not too uncommon. I went through a terrible stage of sort of what you are describing. And I even put myself on "trial" for being gay, because I was working on a lawsuit at the time. I had to write it all just to get it out of my mind. It was making me so crazy I would get lost while walking through stores.

Actually I was going through a bunch of .doc files today and ran across it. Maybe I should put it up here.

Somewhere during my fits, a very kind woman who was pretty far into recovery, wrote to me that just because she had sex with animals (part of her abuse was on a farm, with a perv. herdsman) it did not make her an animal, and just because I had sex with men it did not make me homosexual -- or not. Just not the issue.

Of course, that got me started on an entire other trail that meant that I would have to deal with my animal stuff, too . . . .

But by the time I was through with therapy, we had even covered all that, and I thought I could NEVER be clean from that . . . .

But you will work through this . . . . really.

And it is twisty on all sides of this world. On a mixed site (male and female) I also visit some girls worry that maybe they are lesbians because of their abuse . . .

On a personal note, my girlfriend (also an abuse survivor) started the GLBT group at her college, (before we met) and was a militant feminist lesbian and now we have a baby girl now . . . . and we are really just completely happy with each other . . . so no telling how things will turn out for you . . . . a friend of hers has term I like . . . Human Sexual. I like it.

A lot of people seem happy one way or the other, some with both, and some with none. I think it is mostly the internal conflict that tears you up.

See you,

Sunshine


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#71539 - 10/11/02 02:06 AM Re: help.............
mrsunshineguy Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/02
Posts: 67
Loc: Texas
Hi Michael B,

Try to take a deep breath,

You will be OK, really. Your brain is running way, way ahead of your heart. By that I mean, this is stuff of emotions not analysis. And the heart resolves these things in its own time and way.

But your concerns (and sort of panic) are not too uncommon. I went through a terrible stage of sort of what you are describing. And I even put myself on "trial" for being gay, because I was working on a lawsuit at the time. I had to write it all just to get it out of my mind. It was making me so crazy I would get lost while walking through stores.

Actually I was going through a bunch of .doc files today and ran across it. Maybe I should put it up here.

Somewhere during my fits, a very kind woman who was pretty far into recovery, wrote to me that just because she had sex with animals (part of her abuse was on a farm, with a perv. herdsman) it did not make her an animal, and just because I had sex with men it did not make me homosexual -- or not. Just not the issue.

Of course, that got me started on an entire other trail that meant that I would have to deal with my animal stuff, too . . . .

But by the time I was through with therapy, we had even covered all that, and I thought I could NEVER be clean from that . . . .

But you will work through this . . . . really.

And it is twisty on all sides of this world. On a mixed site (male and female) I also visit some girls worry that maybe they are lesbians because of their abuse . . .

On a personal note, my girlfriend (also an abuse survivor) started the GLBT group at her college, (before we met) and was a militant feminist lesbian and now we have a baby girl now . . . . and we are really just completely happy with each other . . . so no telling how things will turn out for you . . . . a friend of hers has term I like . . . Human Sexual. I like it.

A lot of people seem happy one way or the other, some with both, and some with none. I think it is mostly the internal conflict that tears you up.

See you,

Sunshine


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#71540 - 10/11/02 02:34 AM Re: help.............
rax Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/00
Posts: 75
Loc: Newark, CA
Hi Michael,

I used to struggle with that question.
Am I Gay, or Straight ?
Butch, or Fem ?
nice, or despicable ?
Am I here for a reason, or aimless ?
Vanilla, or chocolate ?
Blue or flamboyant burgundy ?
merge into the crowd, or stand apart ?

The answer to my questions was "I am who I am".

I like who I am, and wherever there is place for improvement, I will strive to better.

I will not "hate".
I may allow myself a little "frustration" instead.

I will try to say "I love you" to all those, whom I love, and I will try to say "sorry" to all those whom I've hurt.

I will give myself "quality time" each day.
I will take care of me. I am important to me.

I will not be ashamed to wear a purple shirt to work, If I like purple.

I will smile when I see a child.

I will take my time to smell the roses.

I will try to succeed, and If I fail, I'll smile, get up, and go at it again.

I will listen, when someone needs an understanding ear.

I will be polite, and hold the door open for people.

I will not judge another person, for I have not lived his life.

I will learn something each day.

---------------------------------------
I was abused at five. I wasnt having fantasies about sex. I was having sex.

As a teenager, I realized that I liked being with men. I also realized that I was different, and not like others. I was kinda weird maybe.

But I liked it.
I liked the fact that I was me.

So, go on and look in a mirror, and say "Hi!".

Look for the answers, but dont hurt yourself finding the answers.

Question things, but dont get stuck on the multiple choice answers. Sometimes more than one are correct.

So go on out and greet the world with a smile on your face and bubbling joy in your heart.

You are who you are, and thats a great thing.

love,
rax.


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#71541 - 10/11/02 10:43 AM Re: help.............
SoCalJohn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 05/18/01
Posts: 510
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Michaelb,

I just wanted to add my perspective to things, first off, slow yourself down a little bit ok? your kinda going pretty fast with all the labels and impressions, and i am not so sure you need to have a definition for yourself just yet, this is a puzzle, it takes time to find most of the damn pieces before you can even begin to start putting them together, ya know?

I was 9 years old in 1963, and it was a sheltered time very different from today. I also went to catholic schools so we were even more sheltered. as for your question, for me, at 5 i dont remember being attracted to anyone. now in third grade around 8 years old, thats a different story, i clearly remember seeing a number of guys that would just make me think about hugging them and i just wanted to be close to them, i dont think my attractions got any sexual direction until later when i had a few clues what that thing was for if you know what i mean.

Keep talking, eventually the words that need to come out will make it out and thngs will start to fit into place, honest.

Hang in there ok?

John

_________________________
I asked him about this law he spoke of, he said,,, *watch* he then asked the others to share about their lives,,, the others talked of how things were for them, how things worked in their lives,,, and as they believed, it was so.

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#71542 - 10/12/02 02:35 PM Re: help.............
Roy Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 184
Loc: Los Angeles
Well, I never!! Oh wait, yes I have. I may be crude but you got the point, right? Brian, I knew I liked you for some reason. \:D

Roy the Crude


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#71543 - 10/12/02 04:55 PM Re: help.............
New to this Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 138
Loc: Mississippi
Hey Dr. Roy,
If air makes me hard, what am I?
cantgocommando

Michael,
Brian is right--you are ok. Check your privates(messages that is).

_________________________
"Knowledge itself is power" Francis Bacon

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#71544 - 10/13/02 11:01 AM Re: help.............
abcd Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/00
Posts: 189
Loc: GA
Let me tell you my experience...I was also abused, and I do have some bi tendencies. Do I know that it was abuse? No--maybe, maybe not. What I've realized though is that perhaps I'll never know (sorry, psychiatry and psychology has its limits) and that perhaps in the grand scheme of things, it does not matter. What matters is how I react to what I know to be REAL effects of my abuse.

For instance, one thing I DO know is that I can not let my abuse drive me down to some sexual dysfunction (seeking sexual pleasure for itself outside of genuine love)—and that is something I know that it can and does do. Thus, I know that I should seek healthy relationships regardless of which path I feel my conscience compels me to follow.

As an abused person, I know how it is when we live in a state of flux...we tend to needlessly obssess about things to which there is no real answer perhaps. That leads us to paralysis of sorts, and often it will lead us to eventually break down and hit bottom. The best way I've learned to stop it is to keep looking up and focusing on what I do know.

Point is, you live it one day at a time, and focus on what you do know to be good and true as a guiding point to live your life. Good luck--we're all in this together.


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#71545 - 10/15/02 11:57 AM Re: help.............
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
Thank you all for your support and conern...especially abcd.....i think you hit the most poignant issue on the head, i just with i could live with that...it is kind of like the serenity prayer, living with what we cannot understand....THAT is impossible for me, i question everything....i guess it seemed like i am questioning my sexuality, and i guess i still am.....but the biggest issue i'm dealing with at this point is determining if the sexual abuse occurred or if it is all a figment of my imagination....that is why my fantasy at 5 holds such significance to me...I KNOW THAT IS TRUE.....i'm not sure what else i really know to be true.....I always thought guys who abused kids were gay, that is why i never let myself believe that my uncle abused me, although i knew he abused my female cousin and tried to abuse my sister......i know i almost abused a couple of little boys when i was 15, thank god i had the strength or fear not to....if i thought i messed somebody up emotionally as bad as i feel i am messed up emotionally, i would not live with that.....I guess i'm searching for a sence of peace and acceptance that will probably never come, but this is my quest at this point in my life....my therapist thinks i need to come to terms with this, otherwise, my self-hatred will continue to dominate my life....i'm not sure i can accept the truth, but i guess i need to know it.....i've just been running from the truth???? for so long......i have continuous nightmares of walking down a country road, i'm 5 or so....a car approaches and a man inside asks me if i'd like a ride....i never see his face, only a lit cigarette.....i'm terrified, i just begin running and never stop.....I JUST WANT TO STOP RUNNING.........michael


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#71546 - 10/16/02 01:55 AM Re: help.............
Ron_dup1 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 87
Loc: Arkansas
Peace - Michael
I have dreams like that too, but I know who is chasing me...
I too want to stop running
(in my dreams and in my life!)
Hang in there and keep searching, we are not alone!
Ron


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#71547 - 10/16/02 02:05 AM Re: help.............
abcd Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/00
Posts: 189
Loc: GA
MichaelB:

It's okay...we're running with you \:\) Yeah, you're just trying to figure out stuff as we all are (though in your case you're trying to figure out if the abuse ever happened rather than the details of the abuse--let me say though that that thought did once cross my mind as well). While that is now settled for me, many more questions arise...much like yours--as in, why you had certain thoughts at certain times, which happened first, why things are the way they are now. I hear ya...you're trying to finally figure stuff out--it itches at you much like when you can't remember someone's name or whatever. Only here, it's perhaps 1,000 times more important. We are all trying to do that as well.

The unfortunate thing is that we may do it a little too much. What we should keep in mind sometimes is that what we may be looking for is truly not that important to begin with or it's one that we can use to be whatever we want it to be anyway--that is, it need not be a controlling factor in our life on which everything is contingent. Okay...So say maybe you're abused, okay. So, you try to live your life as you are now, speaking with people about it and trying to untangle certain aspects of your life. Npw, what if you weren't abused? Okay, too. It does not really make a difference in the grand scheme of things. So perhaps your imagination (which I doubt) somehow created this. Still, you seem to suffer from the same problems as those who have been abused. Thus, what do you do? The same thing you would do if you were abused.

The point here is that you really sometimes have to focus on the here and now, and keep things in perspective. You sit now wondering about what happened in your past...something that I truly think no one may be able to figure out.

Now, I know you have dreams about the future--we all do. You've pictured it before...now, figure out on how to get there rather than always looking back. While the past is important, it need not control your future. If you keep obsessing and focusing on the past too much, you may look back at this time you spend on it now asking whatever you did on those past years of your life which you could have been using to well...rather than just mere contemplation, to actually "live life."

Listen...I do not mean to trivialize your question, it is an important one, but one thing I have realized in my life is that life is so preciously short. We have to enjoy it while we are in it. Have faith...sometimes the answers will come to you in the end anyway without you looking so hard for it. Just do what you can now and focus on what you know to be good.


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#71548 - 10/17/02 07:43 PM Re: help.............
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
ABCD.....thank you for your insight....unfortunately my task just became much more difficult because my therapist of a year and a half told me today he had found another position...I'm really not sure i can begin talking about all this stuff all over again....Is it really worth IT?????? i'm getting to my rope's end, it just seems so much easier to just give up......fighting has taken such a toll on me for so long....i really think happiness is impossible for me.....so why continue this struggle????? it is really difficult to see why the struggle is worthwile......I'll write you back more later, i'm just very scattered today.....loosing my therapist has upset me very much more than i realized......thanks for being here....michael


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#71549 - 10/17/02 08:55 PM Re: help.............
abcd Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/00
Posts: 189
Loc: GA
Hey Michael,

I hear ya, man...still, since when was your therapist TRULY the controller of your happiness. Don't get me wrong, I've recently started seeing a therapist (was too scared before), but if you're like me (and I think you probably are), you've been handling this stuff on your own for some time. What the therapist does is listens to you and helps you sort things out, but truly, a lot of the work was well...done by YOU. You're the one who went and found help. Trust me, you'll be okay...there might be some delay, but I'm sure there'll be a therapist available for you. As professionals, they probably will also be able to help you have a nice transition to a new therapist. It's bound to happen anyway (much like when someone gets a new dentist or new physician). Sure, there are some intricacies and some adjustment, but it'll be just fine...sometimes, it might even be much better (especially if you had progressed a little bit b4 with your old therapist). Of course, I'm not saying this is easy--change always is a little tough especially for us--still, you've been through so much already and gone this far. You'll handle this one. Hang in there bud...here's some words from a U2 song for you...

"If your way should falter along the stony path...it's just a moment this time will pass"

Take it easy bud...and hang in there ;\)


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#71550 - 10/18/02 09:04 PM Re: help.............
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
ABCD.....my therapist is not the controller of my happiness.....what my therapist has been to me though is my anchor....telling my family and friends of my abuse has driven them away, if they ever were really there for me....my bitch mother has convinced my entire family that the abuse cannot be true....don't you know???? she was a perfect mother.....nothing is ever about anybody else but herself....only she has feelings, no one else's are valid....she has used this controlling device of dividing and conquering for a long time...hell, i'll fallen victim to outcasting my brother and sisters because she was angry at them.....I HAVE NO SUPPORT SYSTEM!!!!!!!.....my only support has been my therapist and soon he will be gone......what few friends i do have are so self-absorbed that i rarely confide in them because all they do is try to top my feelings with their own....Maybe now you understand my panic where my therapist is concerned...I refuse to go back into a hospital......I just feel like so many barriers against suicide have or are disappearing for me and that is my only real option....I refuse to keep living if this is all there is.....i guess i need to tell you that about 4 years ago i shut myself up in my house and only went to the grocery store once every couple of weeks....i laid in bed crying hours on hours just hoping i would die in my sleep or that i would muster the courage to slit my wrists.....i see myself deteriorating back to that state and i cannot tolerate that again.....i was like that for almost a year before i pulled myself together to try to live.......i just cannot think about this anymore right now....HAPPINESS??????????? what is happiness????? i do not know his name or face.....michael


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#71551 - 10/29/02 11:02 PM Re: help.............
Mark R Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 29
Loc: Palm Springs, CA
Michael....You do have some people who support you...we are here. Keep writing. I've been through much of what you talk about. I am seeing a therapist again now. I have few friends, am so very lonely, but refuse to let it all get the better of me. If you need to write more please feel free res054dv@gte.net. It sounds like you have survived a lot in your life...even the 4 years of isolation. You will survive. We are all here for that very reason


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#71552 - 10/31/02 09:04 PM Re: help.............
Mark R Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 29
Loc: Palm Springs, CA
I was just thinking about you and hope you are doing ok. Please don't be too hard on yourself, take a breath now and then and write if you need to talk. Take care. Mark


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#71553 - 11/03/02 09:38 AM Re: help.............
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
As a friend I want to remind you I am still waiting for a call, it is ok to call Michael.

I will not be harmed by a phone call. I want you to call, this week is teacher conferences, I will be home around 7pm, tues I teach college.

give me a Call ok it is ok Love

your friend and fellow brother Michael

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#71554 - 11/03/02 10:10 AM Re: help.............
abcd Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/00
Posts: 189
Loc: GA
Hey Michael,

Sorry if I concluded certain things about you that aren't true. I'm not quite so experienced at this yet, man, and sometimes, I'm just limping along. Still,regarding your problems--"scars" I'd like to call them. Well, scars...we can all compare scars bro. Some are deeper than others. I can't tell you how much I've repeatedly fallen, how much I've essentially repeatedly abused myself. You have no idea the things I've said to people--what my almost "split" personality has become. Like you, I am also "alone" to a certain degree. To be honest, I'm not sure what's more frustrating...being completely down and out, or being up, way up and just about really happy, but then seeing yourself fall down and potentially wreck everything. If you start from up top, you can go deeper than you can imagine, but you start from the bottom, you can only go up. I know that is highly metaphorical, but let me explain.

At this point, my life is actually well...hell--at least in regards to this abuse. Very few people know about it nor my homosexual/bisexual tendencies, and how often do I feel like such a hypocrite. I am a fairly intelligent person on a path to do some good things, if I say so myself. Even in love, I feel that I have some traits which are ideal in finding say the perfect man or woman. Still, I feel that as a result of the abuse, I have a huge gaping hole inside of me, one that can suck everything in and destroy everything that I've worked so hard for. Sometimes, I feel like somewhat of a nymphomaniac even--though I've been working as best as I can to control it.

This I know has been so debilitating for me. Already I have seen certain "cracks" in the infrastructure of my life, and I'm losing that stability that I so desperately need. If I lose it completely, I know I'll spiral down faster than I've ever spiralled down before. It is so frustrating, Michael to seem so happy--to laugh with friends, to accomplish so much, to be with family...when deep inside there is this whole inside of you and an anxiety that everything can be destroyed. I realize that perhaps you don't have this infrastructure even, but to be honest, I do not kow that we are in such different positions. We have all been abused Michael, and to some degrees we are abusing ourselves.

We've all been through spirals...huge ones, but we have to hang in there. I need you to hang in there, just as you would want me to hang in here. Don't give up. I notice that you said you have a confusion of your sexuality...well, only now am I starting to embrace it or at least testing it out, but I've got a huge mountain to crawl up to. Regardless of whether or not I go up this road, I know I'll need someone like you who has been going through the same stuff. Please hang in there Mike--I need you to...YOU need yourself to. After everything you've been through, don't give up now.

Btw, if you want to write me directly about some of your probs, post a private message to me and I'll do the best I can with a semi-prompt response ;\) .


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#71555 - 11/06/02 01:19 AM Re: help.............
Don-NY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY
michaelb,

I'm another man who at five years old knew the way and pleasure of oral sex. From memory. This is a fact. Exactly WHO introduced me to sex is not 100% certain in my mind. I always beleived I knew, I was certain I knew without a doubt, from very soon after the fact. I remember this man, his face, his strength, his smell. I remember running to him and being thrilled to be in his arms.

I always beleived it was him. But time passed, and I learned things which made me doubt it was him.

When I was about 22, I walked into a room that I had not been in since I was 2 years old. There was a painting on the wall, done on black velvet, no less, which brought a flashback. Not a violent flashback, but real. I felt emotions and body feelings which were exciting and terrifying at the same time. For a moment I could see the painting as if I were lying down under it, on a bed, and it was so far, far away it was a dream place, and I was experiencing sensations which were overwhemling and so deliciously pleasant and joyful I could never ever express them.

And then I remembered the man who had slept in that room, and I realized how much he looked like the man who I always thought the one.

And I doubted. And as time went on, I began to doubt that anything had ever happened to me. I started to beleive that I had invented this to explain or justify the sexual feelings I always had about other males.

I was so out of whack, I never tried to explain or justify the sexual feelings I always had about females.

In college, I finally had the chance to explore these fellings - all of them, but I could not. Sex was still forbidden, absolutely and unequivocally.

So back to the drawing board. What is wrong with me ??????

What to make of the early, early knowledge of sex? Or, of the body memories and dreams of sex that I had when I was 4, and 5, and 6, and 7, and 8, and....? How do you explain how a four year old tells his parents "I know what you're doing in there". Explain a child who is constantly playing Doctor with any other child he comes in contact with.

Well, I was 5 years old in late 1957. In those days, this kind of behavior wasn't treated, it was repressed. More and more harshly, and destructively as time went on.

You see Roy, you questioned why a person would "find sex very disgusting". Consider what I have just said. My parents (mostly my Mom) did what they thought was best to protect me from the perceived stigma and damaging effects of being a child who needed treatment.

I have no doubt that they were also afraid of what would be thought of them; what they had done to me. I know this is so because I have heard this from their own mouths. I have heard the story of the school psychologist, when I was in kindergarten who suggested to my parents that therapy was needed, not only for me, but for them as well.

This story was told at family gatherings, and I would get furious and humiliated, but I had to stand there and listen, and not pout, and laugh at my expense. The thing is I would have laughed if they had told the whole truth, but always, always, parts were left out. The sexual behavior was never mentioned. The agony and misery of that 5 year old was never mentioned.

I am also very afraid that they might have kept silent to protect another family member. (I will explain that just a bit further on.)

So the silence was kept, but there was a cost, a heavy price I had to pay. That price was my sexuality; a natural, more normal development of this essential part of my humanity; My Birthright.

They made me believe sex was dirty and wrong, and just unthinkable for me. I believed that for 40 years. 40 years.

Was I abused? Yes. Was it the man I think? Maybe. Does it matter? No. Think of it this way. A bank is robbed. There are 20 people in the bank who are forced to the floor almost immediately. There will be 20 de>
_________________________
If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

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