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#71535 - 10/10/02 11:35 AM help.............
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
I've got a question i'm wrestling with.....i'm hoping somebody out there can help me....I'm not sure if i'm gay or straight.....i've had quite a few offers to sleep with guys and girls, but sex so disturbs me, i have chosen not to sleep with either....every psychiatrist/psychologist i've seen tells me abuse took place, and most of the time i agree with them ......but i have so many lingering doubts.....somethings i know to be fact....one of those things led me to believe i was gay, but know with the abuse probability, i'm unsure...LET me explain.....when i was 5 years old, i had this fantasy that i was hercules and i had slaves that i would force to perform oral sex on me....i was 5 in 1963......i always just attributed this as the way i knew i was gay, why else would i have had such explicit fantasies at 5.....but, how many 5-year-olds knew about oral sex in 1963??????.....My question to you gay guys, did any of you have similar experiences????? i've tried to research this, but have been unable to find any info on this subject.....It is just so damn hard to believe my uncle sexually abused me.....for years, i just figured i was gay and was unable to deal with it and chose celibacy.....but i have no problems with gay people, no religous beliefs, etc.....that would make being gay impossible....although i was very involved in athletics throughout high school and college....i know there is a lot of homophobia inherent in those activities......i've been very flattered when guys come on to me, but am unable to be with them.....although i do masturbate thinking about the possibilities........as you can see, i'm one very messed up individual.....i would consider abuse throughout the years, but since my very macho straight uncle was the only man i was close to, and that was from the time i was born until 15 or so, i had to discount the possiblity....i finally admitted to a psychiatrist a few months ago after i attempted suicide again....i am living in constant torment.....is there anybody out there that has any experience similar to mine....i would love to find out that i'm just gay and was not sexually abused....i guess i need to tell you this part too.....the biggest reason i have not taken any guys up on their offers is that i feel like i'd freak out during/after sex.....i'm so afraid i'd go beserk and kill the guy or myself.....you see, i find sex very disgusting.........well, if there are any arm-chair therapists out there.....PLEASE HELP..........michael


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#71536 - 10/10/02 11:50 AM Re: help.............
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
I'm not sure if anyone can tell you that you were abused or not abused. I think knowing these things comes from within ourselves and not so much from what others think may have happened. Kind of a shaky area, but one I am very cautious about in my own personal life.

I once had a very wise person tell me that being abused by a male made you no more homosexual than being abused by a female makes you heterosexual. However, I do believe that we as survivors do struggle with sexual confusion issues a lot. I was exposed to sex at such a young age, long before my mind, body and sexual organs knew what to do with the exposure. So my very young self didn't know how to react to these things and had no vocabulary at the time to even describe these things.

I had a lot of sexual encouters with gals and gals but there was no intimacy and most of them I did not know or wouldn't have ever seen after that encounter. Then as I healed and started to get things together in my life, I started moving towards more healthy behaviors that ultimately led me to the partner I now have (and have been with for almost three years).

We're still trying to sort out what exactly our relationship is. We both struggle with this gay or not gay thing. And to be honest, we are at a point where we could care less what society wants to label us, because we just want to be with each other. It is something very intimate and personal between ourselves. But it is difficult as well because many people do not understand or accept it. I always thought I would be married and have a family just like most people in the world, but I think that was someone else's reality for my life, and not necesarily my reality. I'm happy with my partner and I never thought I could be with anyone for this long of time and grow as close as we have grown.

It sounds like you may be dealing with two different issues here. One would be the abuse and one would be the sexual orientation. Try to keep them separate because they really are separate. Try not to rush yourself through this but allow yourself the necessary time of self discovery that you need. Try to be open to yourself and be aware of what it is that you are seeking. I'm a firm believer that the answers we search for do lie within us. It is just not always an easy thing to do, to listen to them.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#71537 - 10/11/02 12:44 AM Re: help.............
Roy Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 184
Loc: Los Angeles
Hi Michael,

Well, it totally sucks (pun intended!) that you have been struggling so much with this issue for so long. It sounds like you have been in a lot of pain, having attempted suicide. I really agree with everything Don had to say above. The answer is in there somewhere, but there is no way to force it out. Also, like he said, sexual orientation and abuse are seperate issues, but one often complicates the other.

I definitely remember having sexual feelings directed toward other boys as young as age 6. I remember thinking in 1st grade that Peter McGill, sitting across from me, was really cute! I did the whole "playing doctor" thing with kids in the neighborhood, and was much more interested in examining the other boys and not the girls. I had them be nurses and go on errands to get things. \:\)

For me, the bottom line on sexual orientation is what makes your dick hard. Do you check out chicks in halter tops or shirtless construction workers? What and who do you think about when you jack off? What makes you cum?

As for the possibility of sexual abuse, that will emerge into your consciousness if and when you are ready to deal with it. I have a friend who had no recollection of ever being abused until, during the course of therapy about another issue, it came crashing into his awareness while sitting in traffic on an LA freeway at age 47. If you were abused, it may have been someone other than your uncle, someone you are not even aware of. Do you have symptoms common to those who have a history of childhood sexual abuse? Even if you do, though, if you don't remember you don't remember. You just can't force it.

Of all the information you presented in your post, the most alarming thing you said was that you "find sex very disgusting". What's that all about? I would start there with a therapist willing and able to get to the bottom of that mystery. While that may be a symptom of sexual abuse, it could also be about something else entirely. Until you unravel this issue to some degree, it will be difficult to explore your sexual orientation or anything else of a sexual nature.

Almost exclusively, other gay men believe that their attraction to other males is something that crept into their awareness at varying stages of development. It is something that has always been there, not something we chose. Ask heterosexuals if they felt like they had a choice in the matter, and chances are they will say no. They just were and are that way.

Good luck, my friend. Please feel free to ask whatever questions you wish. And, welcome.

Roy


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#71538 - 10/11/02 02:03 AM Re: help.............
mrsunshineguy Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/02
Posts: 67
Loc: Texas
Hi Michael B,

Try to take a deep breath,

You will be OK, really. Your brain is running way, way ahead of your heart. By that I mean, this is stuff of emotions not analysis. And the heart resolves these things in its own time and way.

But your concerns (and sort of panic) are not too uncommon. I went through a terrible stage of sort of what you are describing. And I even put myself on "trial" for being gay, because I was working on a lawsuit at the time. I had to write it all just to get it out of my mind. It was making me so crazy I would get lost while walking through stores.

Actually I was going through a bunch of .doc files today and ran across it. Maybe I should put it up here.

Somewhere during my fits, a very kind woman who was pretty far into recovery, wrote to me that just because she had sex with animals (part of her abuse was on a farm, with a perv. herdsman) it did not make her an animal, and just because I had sex with men it did not make me homosexual -- or not. Just not the issue.

Of course, that got me started on an entire other trail that meant that I would have to deal with my animal stuff, too . . . .

But by the time I was through with therapy, we had even covered all that, and I thought I could NEVER be clean from that . . . .

But you will work through this . . . . really.

And it is twisty on all sides of this world. On a mixed site (male and female) I also visit some girls worry that maybe they are lesbians because of their abuse . . .

On a personal note, my girlfriend (also an abuse survivor) started the GLBT group at her college, (before we met) and was a militant feminist lesbian and now we have a baby girl now . . . . and we are really just completely happy with each other . . . so no telling how things will turn out for you . . . . a friend of hers has term I like . . . Human Sexual. I like it.

A lot of people seem happy one way or the other, some with both, and some with none. I think it is mostly the internal conflict that tears you up.

See you,

Sunshine


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#71539 - 10/11/02 02:06 AM Re: help.............
mrsunshineguy Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/02
Posts: 67
Loc: Texas
Hi Michael B,

Try to take a deep breath,

You will be OK, really. Your brain is running way, way ahead of your heart. By that I mean, this is stuff of emotions not analysis. And the heart resolves these things in its own time and way.

But your concerns (and sort of panic) are not too uncommon. I went through a terrible stage of sort of what you are describing. And I even put myself on "trial" for being gay, because I was working on a lawsuit at the time. I had to write it all just to get it out of my mind. It was making me so crazy I would get lost while walking through stores.

Actually I was going through a bunch of .doc files today and ran across it. Maybe I should put it up here.

Somewhere during my fits, a very kind woman who was pretty far into recovery, wrote to me that just because she had sex with animals (part of her abuse was on a farm, with a perv. herdsman) it did not make her an animal, and just because I had sex with men it did not make me homosexual -- or not. Just not the issue.

Of course, that got me started on an entire other trail that meant that I would have to deal with my animal stuff, too . . . .

But by the time I was through with therapy, we had even covered all that, and I thought I could NEVER be clean from that . . . .

But you will work through this . . . . really.

And it is twisty on all sides of this world. On a mixed site (male and female) I also visit some girls worry that maybe they are lesbians because of their abuse . . .

On a personal note, my girlfriend (also an abuse survivor) started the GLBT group at her college, (before we met) and was a militant feminist lesbian and now we have a baby girl now . . . . and we are really just completely happy with each other . . . so no telling how things will turn out for you . . . . a friend of hers has term I like . . . Human Sexual. I like it.

A lot of people seem happy one way or the other, some with both, and some with none. I think it is mostly the internal conflict that tears you up.

See you,

Sunshine


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#71540 - 10/11/02 02:34 AM Re: help.............
rax Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/00
Posts: 75
Loc: Newark, CA
Hi Michael,

I used to struggle with that question.
Am I Gay, or Straight ?
Butch, or Fem ?
nice, or despicable ?
Am I here for a reason, or aimless ?
Vanilla, or chocolate ?
Blue or flamboyant burgundy ?
merge into the crowd, or stand apart ?

The answer to my questions was "I am who I am".

I like who I am, and wherever there is place for improvement, I will strive to better.

I will not "hate".
I may allow myself a little "frustration" instead.

I will try to say "I love you" to all those, whom I love, and I will try to say "sorry" to all those whom I've hurt.

I will give myself "quality time" each day.
I will take care of me. I am important to me.

I will not be ashamed to wear a purple shirt to work, If I like purple.

I will smile when I see a child.

I will take my time to smell the roses.

I will try to succeed, and If I fail, I'll smile, get up, and go at it again.

I will listen, when someone needs an understanding ear.

I will be polite, and hold the door open for people.

I will not judge another person, for I have not lived his life.

I will learn something each day.

---------------------------------------
I was abused at five. I wasnt having fantasies about sex. I was having sex.

As a teenager, I realized that I liked being with men. I also realized that I was different, and not like others. I was kinda weird maybe.

But I liked it.
I liked the fact that I was me.

So, go on and look in a mirror, and say "Hi!".

Look for the answers, but dont hurt yourself finding the answers.

Question things, but dont get stuck on the multiple choice answers. Sometimes more than one are correct.

So go on out and greet the world with a smile on your face and bubbling joy in your heart.

You are who you are, and thats a great thing.

love,
rax.


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#71541 - 10/11/02 10:43 AM Re: help.............
SoCalJohn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 05/18/01
Posts: 510
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Michaelb,

I just wanted to add my perspective to things, first off, slow yourself down a little bit ok? your kinda going pretty fast with all the labels and impressions, and i am not so sure you need to have a definition for yourself just yet, this is a puzzle, it takes time to find most of the damn pieces before you can even begin to start putting them together, ya know?

I was 9 years old in 1963, and it was a sheltered time very different from today. I also went to catholic schools so we were even more sheltered. as for your question, for me, at 5 i dont remember being attracted to anyone. now in third grade around 8 years old, thats a different story, i clearly remember seeing a number of guys that would just make me think about hugging them and i just wanted to be close to them, i dont think my attractions got any sexual direction until later when i had a few clues what that thing was for if you know what i mean.

Keep talking, eventually the words that need to come out will make it out and thngs will start to fit into place, honest.

Hang in there ok?

John

_________________________
I asked him about this law he spoke of, he said,,, *watch* he then asked the others to share about their lives,,, the others talked of how things were for them, how things worked in their lives,,, and as they believed, it was so.

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#71542 - 10/12/02 02:35 PM Re: help.............
Roy Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 184
Loc: Los Angeles
Well, I never!! Oh wait, yes I have. I may be crude but you got the point, right? Brian, I knew I liked you for some reason. \:D

Roy the Crude


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#71543 - 10/12/02 04:55 PM Re: help.............
New to this Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 138
Loc: Mississippi
Hey Dr. Roy,
If air makes me hard, what am I?
cantgocommando

Michael,
Brian is right--you are ok. Check your privates(messages that is).

_________________________
"Knowledge itself is power" Francis Bacon

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#71544 - 10/13/02 11:01 AM Re: help.............
abcd Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/00
Posts: 189
Loc: GA
Let me tell you my experience...I was also abused, and I do have some bi tendencies. Do I know that it was abuse? No--maybe, maybe not. What I've realized though is that perhaps I'll never know (sorry, psychiatry and psychology has its limits) and that perhaps in the grand scheme of things, it does not matter. What matters is how I react to what I know to be REAL effects of my abuse.

For instance, one thing I DO know is that I can not let my abuse drive me down to some sexual dysfunction (seeking sexual pleasure for itself outside of genuine love)—and that is something I know that it can and does do. Thus, I know that I should seek healthy relationships regardless of which path I feel my conscience compels me to follow.

As an abused person, I know how it is when we live in a state of flux...we tend to needlessly obssess about things to which there is no real answer perhaps. That leads us to paralysis of sorts, and often it will lead us to eventually break down and hit bottom. The best way I've learned to stop it is to keep looking up and focusing on what I do know.

Point is, you live it one day at a time, and focus on what you do know to be good and true as a guiding point to live your life. Good luck--we're all in this together.


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