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#71512 - 09/02/02 04:21 AM more lies...
BlueOne Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 27
OK, so on the main board Don-NY started a thread about what we know are lies, and I think it's a great thread but when I was about to post, I decided maybe I'd post my list here, instead, since a lot of the "truths" that I know are bullshit now have to do specifically with my sexuality. Plus, I'm tired of logging on and seeing that the little Gay Survivors lightbulb is never lit up since we never post in here.

So here's a list of things that I used to think were true but I now know are lies (you should read the original "All Lies" thread in the Male Survivors section, too, if you haven't already, since it's good).

This is a lie:
I wanted it because I'm gay.

This is a lie:
If I ever got any pleasure from it, that means it wasn't abuse.

This is a lie:
Being gay is just as sick as being an abuser.

This is a lie:
If you're gay you will automatically be an abuser.

This is a lie:
I have to sleep with every guy who wants me because that's what gay men do.

This is a lie:
Numbing yourself with drugs is better than facing the pain and healing.

This is a lie:
Nobody will ever love me because I'm a sick little pervert.

This is a lie:
It was my fault.

This is a lie:
Wanting to sleep with another man is the same thing as wanting to recreate the abuse, or proof that I liked it.

This is a lie:
There is something wrong with me.

OK, so I could go on for a long time, but that's my partial list for now.

--Lucas


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#71513 - 09/03/02 11:54 AM Re: more lies...
d503 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/12/02
Posts: 8
hey-

i have but one to add to this already extensive list. i think it's an important one though.

this is a lie:
i am gay because i was abused.

thanks, blue, for putting your post here.


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#71514 - 09/03/02 12:23 PM Re: more lies...
BlueOne Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 27
So, what I've been thinking about now, I guess, are the effects of those lies, how I thought and acted and lived until I realized they weren't true.

I don't know. It's so weird. I wish I could just say that he was a complete demon and I was totally innocent but that's never the way it is in the real world.

He, my stepfather, could me nice to me. He was a lot of the time. And I craved it. When he'd put his hand on my shoulder and call me his boy and tell me that he was proud of the grades I got or how I'd played in the little league game or whatever, I loved it. Even though I was terrified of him I craved that good attention. Sometimes I even craved the bad attention.

When he was abusing me I kept reminding myself that he was doing it because he loved me--I don't know where the hell I got that idea. I guess I wanted it to be true so bad I convinced myself. And then, when I was older and my body could respond, I told myself that I liked it so it was OK. But I wasn't OK because I responded to it and not just to him. I was obviously some sort of freak because if he didn't come to me, I'd seek out someone else. I can't believe I'd do that, just hand myself over to whoever wanted me. I'm sure a lot of those guys thought they'd hit the jackpot--a 13 year-old kid offering to suck them off in the park or some remote restroom. I made it easy for anybody who wanted to be a perp.

I hate that part. I hate that part more than anything else because I was making a choice to do it. I can't understand it. I mean, I know I felt compelled to do it, it comforted me in some messed up way, but I can't understand it in my heart. I can't remember how I felt. Maybe that's a good thing.

And even after I told and started to get help I think the hardest thing to learn was how to say no. Even after I'd sorted through being gay and being abused and their combinations a billion times, I still didn't know how to say no. I was always just flattered and surprised that anybody would want me, since I thought I was a total freak. And we're taught by a lot of people, gay and straight, that gay men fuck like bunnies so if that's what I was supposed to do...

And then once I started actually dealing with my sexuality and taking control of it, I had to deal with the fact that I wanted to do these things that had been so terrible with him. Was I trying to recreate the abuse? Was it proof that I really had wanted it all along (never mind the fact that I was 8 when it started)?

I wrestled with that a lot. How I could want to sleep with another man when it had been a man who abused me. Luckily, I had a really good therapist at the time and she put it this way. If a straight woman is raped by a man, nobody thinks she's a pervert if she wants to start having sex with her boyfriend again. If a straight man was abused by a woman as a child, nobody thinks that the only reason he's straight is because of the abuse. I was dealing with two seperate issues that intertwined--the abuse and my own internalized homophobia. Once I saw that they were seperate issues, it was a lot easier to deal with both.

I don't know where I'm going with this. I'm just rambling and feeling kind of weird and down today. I'm an insomniac and my boyfriend can fall asleep at the drop of a hat, so I spent most of last night staring at him and thinking, "Wake up. Wake up so we can talk. Wake uuuuup." But of course he just slept like a baby, like he always does. Oh, how I envy people who aren't insomniacs. He doesn't even snore, the bastard.

No, he's actually pretty amazing. He listens when I need to vent and I know he tries to understand, but he can't. Plus, I almost hate telling him because it hurts him so much to know what happened to me. It's so out of his range of understanding, completely out of his reality. At the same time my mother and stepfather kicked me out of their house his parents were telling him they loved him and supported him and were very honored that he trusted them enough to come out to them. The f---? OK, so I got that from my dad and stepmom, but that was only after a lot of grief. Maybe his idyllic childhood is the reason he can go to sleep so easily. He's not worried about what might get him if he closes his eyes.

--Lucas


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#71515 - 09/03/02 12:30 PM Re: more lies...
BlueOne Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 27
I can't believe I forgot that one.

Quote:
Originally posted by d503:
hey-

i have but one to add to this already extensive list. i think it's an important one though.

this is a lie:
i am gay because i was abused.

thanks, blue, for putting your post here.
It's definitely an important one. Maybe one of the most important ones. I can't offer anybody any hard evidence, but I know in my core that that is a huge lie. Thanks for adding it.


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#71516 - 09/04/02 02:07 PM Re: more lies...
SoCalJohn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 05/18/01
Posts: 510
Loc: Los Angeles, California
This is a lie:

he picked me cus he could tell there was something wrong with me

_________________________
I asked him about this law he spoke of, he said,,, *watch* he then asked the others to share about their lives,,, the others talked of how things were for them, how things worked in their lives,,, and as they believed, it was so.

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#71517 - 09/05/02 02:37 AM Re: more lies...
Roy Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 184
Loc: Los Angeles
lies, lies, lies, all of them lies!

Lie: Gay men don't have long-term relationships.

Lie: I am not enough.

Lie: Men are pigs.

Lie: Gay men can't be monogamous.

Lie: I am defective.

Lie: You should be ashamed of yourself!

peace, bros


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#71518 - 09/05/02 06:27 AM Re: more lies...
BlueOne Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 27
More lies:

You'll never be happy.

You'll end up alone.

It's just a phase.

You could be straight if you wanted to.
(well, I don't want to, but even if I did...)

It's not like your relationship is a *real* relationship, since you can't get married.


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#71519 - 09/05/02 02:17 PM Re: more lies...
Don-NY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY
Thanks for starting this thread in here, Lucas. I avoided any direct reference to sexuality in my original post because this is THE area of my life which still, STILL, gives me the most trouble; which I have not yet reclaimed.

Indirectly, I had this to say:

Quote:
THIS IS A LIE:
I am a dirty, nasty, sick, perverted little freak.
As someone who has had both heterosexual and homosexual relationships, I offer this;

THIS IS A LIE:
The abuse has fundamentally affected (changed or determined) my sexual orientation.

_________________________
If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

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#71520 - 09/19/02 02:40 PM Re: more lies...
chill Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 4
hi everyone.

i am VERY new at all of this (chatting, posting messages, etc as well as talking about my abuse), so please forgive me if i i make mistakes or ramble. some of these things are things i am expressing for the first time, so please bear with me.

i was very moved by this post. in fact i started crying as i sat at my computer, reading the lists of lies as well as the reflections on the conflicting feelings that came out of abuse. there is so much that i relate to, so much that i went through feeling like i was messed up, that i was a freak, that no-one could possibly understand me let alone love me when i didn't even understand or love myself.

lies are part of my life. i have believed lies that have told me that i was worthless, that i didn't deserve anything, that i had brought on myself the pain and suffering i felt would sometimes kill me. and i told so many lies. i told people that i was happy, that i was doing okay, that i didn't need anyone when i would go home and cut myself just to feel something like relief. i lay in bed for days and told people i had the flu. i told friends that i was doing well when my only thoughts were my internal struggles between ending my life and clinging to survival, however tenuously.

i still sometimes have a hard time separating my sexual orientation (gay) from my abuse. why does it seem like these things are intertwined when i know rationally that they are not? i am at a point now where i accept being gay, and for the most part i am pretty out and comfortable with it, but that is not the case for my abuse. i have told close friends and my latest lovers/boyfriends but it is still tough to talk about and it is a subject that fills me with shame even now. i'm not sure what that's about -- guilt? do i feel responsible? did i do something to provoke it? maybe these are some lies i still have to let go of.

i started seeing a wonderful man a few months ago after many years of near celibacy. during those dry years i found it extrememly difficult to trust, to become intimate both emotionally and physically. during that time as well i didn't really feel the need to address my abuse or my feelings around it. i had lulled myself into believing that it had gone away, that it was in the past. i told myself that the fact that i actively resisted intimacy and sexual relationships was more about not having met the "right person".

then i met the man who i am seeing now. he's funny, charming, handsome, kind, politically aware, sensitive -- all the kinds of things i had told myself i wanted in a partner. okay, he's not mother theresa (he's cuter for starters...) -- he has his flaws for sure, as do we all, but suddenly my old excuses didn'T seem to be working so well and i couldn't trick myself into believing that this wasn't what i wanted deep down. but my psyche didn't give up so easily. i tried in many ways to push him away. when he expressed an interest in me i lied and told him i wasn'T attracted to him, but that i liked him and wanted to be friends. it soon became obvious when i wanted to spend all of my free time with my new friend and was obsessing privately about holding him and kissing him that that not even i was believing that line. so after much internal and external back and forth i haltingly told him i was willing to try to be with him, but that it wasnt't going to be easy. i didn'T go into detail but i told him that i had been hurt in the past and that i didnt trust easily. he was really happy that i was willing to try, and said that he would do what he could to make it easier.

so we started on this journey. i told him pretty quickly after that about my abuse. it was really tough. i cried a lot. i felt extremely vulnerable, and ashamed and damaged. i was simultaneously hoping that he would leave so that i could return to my closed, "uncomplicated" life and also terrified that he would leave and that i would have once again messed up a chance at finding someone to care about who cared for me. please don't get me wrong -- i don't think having a partner is the key to happiness or anything, it's just that here was an opportunity to have someone in my life in a way that hadn'T happened in a long time, someone i wanted to be with and get to know. so i went for it.

to say it has been challenging would be an understatement. all of the things i had buried for so long are coming to the surface. i have huge problems around sexual intimacy, which he understands but finds very frustrating because he is used to expressing love and desire sexually and i am not. he is not always patient -- sometimes he wants me to just sort myself out quickly so that we can move forward in our relationship faster, but even he acknowledges that these things can't be rushed. most days i feel a lot of confusion. he doesn't understand how i can be so removed from my own feelings, how sometimes i can turn on and off from one moment to the next, how i don't always know or can't express exactly what i'm feeling and why. sometimes i feel i have bitten off more than i can chew, that i am suddenly halfway down an expert ski run when i barely know how to stay upright with these things strapped to my feet. on good days i feel like i love him, and the fact that i can feel anything, let alone something so powerfuland wonderful amazes me and gives me hope. other days i feel nothing, and it seems like i am just goading him into losing patience so that he will leave me and i can go back to my life, as though this whole experience with him is a sidebar that feels good, so it couldn't possibly be real and it couldn't possibly be mine.

but for now i"m hanging in, trying to be honest, trying to cut through the lies and lies and lies. and for as long as he wants to be there for me, i will try and make space for him in my life and in my heart. it's so hard. and if one day he isn't, i hope i can be strong and carry on this journey that i've started anyway.

i guess that's it. i guess that's a lot already! thanks for letting me vent, and thank you so much for sharing and allowing me to feel less alone.


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#71521 - 09/19/02 05:34 PM Re: more lies...
asher Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 19
Loc: St. Louis
I totally understand where you're coming from. I've been with my boyfriend/partner/best friend for five years, and even today I sometimes have trouble with intimacy. My abuser left me feeling betrayed and lonely, and it was a struggle every day not to displace those feelings onto my boyfriend. In the beginning, I had to learn how to hold and be held, and it took a long time before we ever were sexually active.

Throughout it all, he was enormously patient. He never asked me to do more than I was comfortable doing, and slowly my body felt less and less like a mine field and more like something over which I had some control.

Prior to my current relationship, I had experiences that weren't so positive --- boys who couldn't understand why I wasn't interested in sex, boys who pressured me into situations that triggered my bad memories, boys who whined that they just wanted to get off.

It was a struggle to leave those relationships, especially the guys for whom I had strong feelings, but I decided that I had to do what was best for me.

Your new boyfriend will have to be patient with you, and you will have to be honest about what you're willing to do. But you can work through this problem if you just take it one day at a time.

asher


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