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#71467 - 05/19/02 08:17 AM Re: Before or After? Cause or Because?
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
hey I am just confused, and scared
I just want to be loved, no sex
I need male friends
I do have a sunday group we meet
today, I struggle just like the rest of
you, I hate it.

I am finding what I really want, hopefully with the abuse behind me not in front of me.

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#71468 - 05/19/02 10:18 PM Re: Before or After? Cause or Because?
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
I have been monogamous with my wife now for 14 years...but I still fantasize about sex with men and women. It's very difficult to not see others as sexual objects when we were introduced to sex as something acceptable at such a young age (8 years old for me) So I look, but I never touch, cuz then I would lose the only person who truly seems to love me unconditionally, my wife. And she is the best lover I have ever had, and I've known more than what I think is my fair share of partners. (I'm waiting for the day when my wife will really be ok with me saying to her "Check him out, what a hunk" or she can say to me "wow what a babe she is, don't you think?" without either one of us flipping out about the other actually taking a peek.)

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#71469 - 05/21/02 09:08 PM Re: Before or After? Cause or Because?
Just Call me J Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 204
Loc: Inland Empire, California
Hey guys, I'm with you on the confusion thing. And, lucky me, I get to heap some more confusion on top of it. It's not all bad though.

Here goes: I crossdress. I've been mostly asexual most of my life, but I've felt that compulsion since I was in 3rd grade. It brought a lot of shame along with it. I only discovered about my abuse within the last year, so I finally begin to understand where so much of the shame comes from.

My best friend of 5 years that has helped me to come to terms with my crossdressing (and now with the abuse) is lesbian. I've gone out dressed with her on several occassions, and am learning to be okay with the idea. In the last 7 months, she and I have actually started dating. It's easy for me to explain to my friends about my girlfriend, cuz it appears normal (on the surface anyway). It's harder for her to explain to everyone, cuz she's already come out to everyone as being into girls. When I'm dressed up, I can actually be her girlfriend.

We're cool enough with each other to not be threatened by checking out other people. Usually, she is pointing out the hot girls to me (my radar for that sucks).

While I don't check out guys on the streets, I do have the fantasies about sex with men in general. I don't (always) like that I have these fantasies, but I can share them with my girlfriend. We have incorporated some of these fantasies into our sex play.

She still gets to use the strap-on she got when she was with women. And it's even been able to help me out, when I couldn't perform personally.

I'm not always comfortable with the fact that we do that, though. Occassionally I'm totally up for it; a few times, I beg off when I thought I wanted it; a lot of times, we just do something else; and a few times, I've played with it on my own, and didn't tell her about it till I felt like shit about it later. As long as I keep the communication open with her, things are incredible between us.

Two days ago, we got into a long conversation about whether or not I'm gay, or if I might even be transexual. When she asked if, given a choice to start life from conception as a boy or girl, which would I choose, I found it hard not to say that my outlook on life would certainly have fit better on a girl, than on a boy, but I don't have that feeling of "wrongness" about my body that I've read about from transexuals.

Before I came out to her about my crossdressing, she had thought that I was gay (but in denial) because of the level of feminine behaviors I display. Since she learned of my dressing, she concluded that dressing accounts for the feminine behavior, and she was probably wrong about the "gayness." Troubling for me though, is the night that I came out about the abuse, I also had a compulsive need to declare "I'm gay," which I did. I'm still not sure what that was about, but it's hard to ignore. However, we're dating now, so she certainly has a stake in my heterosexuality.

Or perhaps, I AM a transexual, who is gay, therefore making me a lesbian trapped in a man's body... \:D

See, I told you it was confusing.

But the good thing is that we both love each other deeply, and we did not have to sacrifice our friendship to become lovers. We are still the closest of friends, and we continue to support each other through some very tough emotional times (I've written about them elsewhere on this site). She has said that being lesbian was really about having the freedom to love who she wanted. And we love each other, regardless of gender or orientation.

Anyway, I feel very lucky, and very blessed to be with such a wonderful person.

We're in this together.

Jeremy

_________________________
We're in this together. - Nine Inch Nails

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#71470 - 05/29/02 07:27 PM Re: Before or After? Cause or Because?
Just Call me J Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 204
Loc: Inland Empire, California
Wow, there's nothing like killing a thread...

We're in this together.

Jeremy

_________________________
We're in this together. - Nine Inch Nails

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#71471 - 05/29/02 07:58 PM Re: Before or After? Cause or Because?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Wow Jeremy
What's left to say after that !!!!
I admire your candour and your openness and I hope you and your girlfriend continue to be there for each other.
Be cool and have fun.
Lloydy ;\)

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#71472 - 05/29/02 09:11 PM Re: Before or After? Cause or Because?
Just Call me J Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 204
Loc: Inland Empire, California
Thanks, Lloydy!

It's so weird that I don't write much here anymore. When I first discovered this site, I spent several hours a week writing out my thoughts on what's going on.

I guess it's a good thing that my real life takes up enough time to keep me from spending very much time for writing. But I feel like I'm less able to articulate what's going on, through speech, than I am through writing. I miss that clarity I had from July to October (before I moved in with my girlfriend).

Go ahead, check out my old posts. They are LOOOOOOONNGGGG!

But I feel like I've just rehashed the same old thoughts, instead of breaking any new ground. I still don't know what happened to me, nor by whom. I finally got a little more evidence of it, but no actual memories. It's circumstantial evidence, and not very good at that.

Anyway, thanks for reading what I had to say, and thanks again Lloydy, for responding!

We're in this together.

Jeremy

_________________________
We're in this together. - Nine Inch Nails

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#71473 - 05/29/02 10:41 PM Re: Before or After? Cause or Because?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Just Call me J. This happened to me back in 1990. I was working for Steffanino's Art Gallery in Newport Beach as a plastics fabrication specialist. Drove Red Hill Ave all the way home to where it dead-ended in the hills of classy North Tustin/Lemon Heights. On the way home one afternoon I pulled up behind a car. All I could see was the driver's back. Holy shit she was hot! A blond,early 20s,slim build. Could'nt take my eyes off her. We continued up Red Hill,me tailgating her. Traffic was'nt much so I reached into my pants & fondled my whang,looking at her and fantasizing how tight she must be. I figured she could crack walnuts. At El Camino Real I pulled up next to her. She wore a mustache. She was a guy. A long haired hippie. It was quite an experience for an Orange County Republican.


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#71474 - 06/07/02 09:36 PM Re: Before or After? Cause or Because?
Spider-man Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/02
Posts: 57
Loc: NY
Quote:
Originally posted by Just Call me J:
Troubling for me though, is the night that I came out about the abuse, I also had a compulsive need to declare "I'm gay," which I did. I'm still not sure what that was about, but it's hard to ignore. However, we're dating now, so she certainly has a stake in my heterosexuality.
For me, the same sort of thing holds true. But at the same time its false, because I like women way too much to give them up.
I think its a conflict between what I was taught by the abuse, and what my natural instincts/inclinations are.

I think, therefore I'm confused.


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#71475 - 06/17/02 05:18 PM Re: Before or After? Cause or Because?
Cement Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 740
Loc: Southern California
I am not sure whther my post will help anyone else, but this thread helped me.

I act out in a hetero way, because my abuser was a female, but the impulses and the acting out are right in line with what you guys are talking about.

I have planned outings, purchased paraphernalia. I have wasted hours trying to plan where I would go, how long I could be gone. I have been late to work, late home, almost caught several times. All to expose myself to women.

It was over the internet and in my car, asking women on the street to take my picture, first the innocent picture, then when they had taken that picture, to take the real picture I was there for, the one of me jacking off for them. I even got a few women to do it, and the fantasy came true. But did it satisfy? NO....it made me feel like shit, full of shame and humiliation, like I suddenly realized what I was doing.

I stopped just a few weeks ago. My wife found a picture of a woman, naked, holding a naked picture of me. I kept it...did I want to get caught? I am relieved that I have been caught, but I am scared that all my turn ons are inappropriate.

My wife is overcompensating right now...for her, it is all about 'if I were more appealing, he wouldn't need anything else.' So she is trying to have so much sex with me that I can't want anything else. She has always gotten on me for looking way too hard at other women. Now I can't separate out the attraction.

It almost seems as thought the only answer is to eliminate sex altogether. I am not successfully confronting the idea that I should stop, even though I am not acting out. I cannot shake wanting to look at naked women, and suddenly, every woman I see is dressed like a slut.

_________________________
And let the darkness fear our light.

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#71476 - 06/17/02 07:25 PM Re: Before or After? Cause or Because?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Cement
the shock of my wife finding out about my acting out- with men- certainly took the shine off acting out for me. I did go cottaging very occasionally afterwards, but it was rare and thankfully unsuccesful.
She found out when I left a copy of my writings in a temporary file on the computer, I had placed it there when the floppy disc became full and meant to erase it after saving to another floppy.
My writing, that I only showed to my therapist at the time, was very graphic- ALL the details were there.
I was out all one Sunday when she saw it and like anyone else was unable to resist reading what was there. It was 2 days before she said anything to me. She was feeling guilty for reading it !!
The reason for all this detail is regarding your question "do we want to get caught ?"

I swear I left that file on the desktop accidently, I took great care to hide the floppys. And at that time I was still unsure of other peoples reactions.
Also my acting out had taken on a very high risk of getting caught.
And I swear I didn't want to get caught either.

Like you I was ultimately very relieved at being found out, a huge load was lifted from me.
But since then I have often wondered if some subconcious action drives us to take the risks.
If we were thinking clearly, and enjoyed what we did, wouldn't we just do it without guilt and shame, and do it without any risk taking with like minded people ?
I think so, when my fantasy came true I was crushed, it was the worst day of my life. What I believed was going to be so great was just a horrible fumble with a stinking stranger.

The fantasy still hovers around my mind, 3 years since I last acted out "succesfully" but it's dying, it no longer has the power. Now i'm rebuilding a proper sex life with my wife, but it's hard ( well no - it's soft, that's the bloody trouble ) anyway, it does get better. Now the secrets out it's no longer a secret and the power crumbles.

Be good
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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