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#71109 - 07/13/01 12:32 PM Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi. I am a survivor, and I have found that many of the males survivors that I have known are gay or bi. I wonder if there have been studies of the impact of childhood sexual abuse of males on the victims' later sexuality and sexual preferences. I suspoect strongly that my confusion about my sexuality is a directo result ot the sexual and other abuse I experienced in my family. I have also read in bools for male survivors that we survivors wind up totally confused and fearful aroiund issues of sexuality and emotional intimacy, and often are confused about our sexual orientation.

Does anyone know of any such studies? Please let me know and also feel free to comment on the subject, in general.

Thanks!

Lance


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#71110 - 07/16/01 01:43 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
Lance, please see my reply to your post on the male survivor web page. In that post I left of the fact that the meeting of about 125 college students took place on the Vanderbilt Unniversity campus. Also each survivor has his own problems to go thru and being a survivor DOES make it more difficult to have sex with ANYBODY. I also would like to say that maybe if you contacted the main office of NOMSV, they could give you names of books (s) that deal with your question (s). Please excuse the screw ups. bosishere


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#71111 - 07/24/01 03:51 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello Lance,
I am also a survivor, I was sexually abused by my stepfather from age 3 to 12. I have also struggled with unwanted homosexual thoughts and feelings, pornagraphy compulsive masterbation,ect. Even through my 10 year marriage.
I have been in and out of therapy for many years and have come a long way in my recovery and healing. It is very obvious to me now that the sexual-abuse is directly linked with all of these unfortunate confusions and compulsions. I don't think this should come as a surprise. It is very common for both men and women who have been sexually abused to be confused about their sexuality. I have read studies that indicate that up to 87 percent of homosexual males where sexually abused as childeren. I have also read studies that indicate that among female prostitutes the persectage of early childhood sexual abuse is about 96 percent. This is very unforunate and saddening. Sexual abuse reaks havoc and torment on people myself included. But I really think that all of these distructive compulsions can be overcome with some good help and support, from people who relly care and have good balanced aproach to the way they practice their therapy.
If you would like to talk anytime,
my E-mail is dkgskd@aol.com

Peace and friendship,
Dan


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#71112 - 07/25/01 09:44 AM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
pondboy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 59
Loc: benicia, california, usa
I have wondered the same thing and went into therapy to be sure of the source of my feelings. I am clearly much more comfortable having sex with a man than a woman. its tougher to be gay than straight but much happier for me. you ask good questions . I'm not sure if there is a definitive answer so keep asking it. but you also need to think about what makes you happy. and follow that. best, chuck (I was married for a long time. if you ever want to email me: cspence3@aol.com


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#71113 - 07/25/01 02:47 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi, Pondboy
In regard to your last post I do agree that we have to try to be happy to some extent but some decisions that might seem to make us temporatily "happy" are not always the best thing for us. For example, if I sleep around with other women or men for that matter, while being married to my wife it is moraly wrong, no matter how "happy" it makes me. There will be serious consequences
It will a reak distasterous consequenses on my wife children and even myself, I have met too many men who for whaterver reason, be it sexual abuse or otherwise have become involed in the homosexual lifestyle or bisexul or whatever, and ended up with Aids or some other unfortunate consequence. I beleive their latter condition is worse than the first.
I have come to beleive that I must try to do the right thing, even if it means to deny myself of my own self gradification, in the end it will be well worth it.
Just something to think about.
Peace


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#71114 - 07/25/01 05:45 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi, Danman, and thanks for your reply. If I gave the impressiuon that happiness should be the only goal, I apologize. That certainly is not my intent, nor is it what I believe. I agree completely that happiness is not the be-all and end-all of life, but I also believe that it is reasonable to desire a reasonable level of happiness and contentment in one's life. Of course, I also believe that part of feeling happy and content is a matter of attitude, i.e., how we choose to perceive our world and events in it.

As for what is right, it seems to me that it is up to each one of us to figure out what is right in the context of our values. I, too, believe that is wrong for one who is married to have extra-marital sex or affairs. Yet, I also know it is often extremely difficult for some people to refrain from such encounters for a wide range of reasons, often not all a lack of moral strength or values. I believe,too, that people who engage in such behavior get aids or any other disease simply because these are some of the risks of engaging in casual sexual behavior. I don;t believe that it has anything to do with rewrad and opunishment for "good" or "bad" behavior. If we engage in risky behavior, we may end up with consequences we'd really rather avoid and therefore hurt oursleves and others, too.

I guess I am somewhat uncomfortable with connecting "right" behavior with a happy life too strongly. Sometimes, regardless of our behavior, we are faced with very difficult challenges that can seem overwhelming. For example, being abused as a child, developing cancer, etc. Do some people who contracted aids deserve what they got because they engaged in behaviors that some believe to be immoral? Are they being punished by God? I don't believe so.

Just some more thoughts to ponder.

thanks again.

LanceC


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#71115 - 07/25/01 06:31 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
Lance, VERY, VERY GOOD POST. bosishere


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#71116 - 07/26/01 11:42 AM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lance,
Thanks for your reply. I hope I didn't give the impression that sorting out all this crap associated to out sexual abuse is easy, it is not. It has been a battle for me, for many years. I know its not easy for any of us.

I was speaking from my personl experience though and I know there is hope for those of us who are looking.

At one point in my life I also gave into my out of control sexual feelings and was consumed with masterbation and pornography, and even sexually acting out with wonem and men a few times, while being married. I know that the feelings where overwelming at times and I felt like I couldn't control myself.

Then, I received some help in a mens group at my church and started to understand that I could control my feelings and thoughts if I really choose to. It takes alot of hard work and support, from accoutability partners, and God, but it is possible.

Some of the guys in my mens group have been sober from compulsive masterbation and acting out for years as much as 5-10 years. I have been sober for 1 and a half years now.
So for me I am determined to fight, for the rest of my life and try to do the right thing.

I say for me, because this is what I personaly choose to do. There are many others who choose this as well. I think this is one of our options. It is a REAL possibility. I understand that it may not be the most popular view in some circles but for me it is.
I am determined to be faithfull to my wife and keep my comittment to her and my children. I have been married for ten years and she is the best thing that ever happend to me.
It gives me a great deal of peace to try to the right thing, "for me".
Something to think about.
Peace and frienship,
Dan


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#71117 - 07/26/01 01:08 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
getteddie Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 226
Loc: Cub Hill, Md
Hey Pond boy,
Tell it like it is!!! Sure a man can force himself to do anything...not have sex for 90 days ...do 12 steps...go to meetings and complain about thinking about masterbating! Run away from his wife and kids...do things on the side....whatever...when a man has been sexually adused...when a kid or whatever...his mind gets fucked up!!!! He may be strong enough to keep his shit together or he my not be. None of the married guys want to screw up their marriages, few want to be gay...some fight it forever...some give in...some blow their brains out...today I like the latter!

Eddie


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#71118 - 07/26/01 05:03 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


PONDBOY: Thank you for your reply to my post. somehow, I missed seeing our message yesterday...I apologize.

Yes, there certainly are no easy answers, I am glad that you seem to be geting some clarity in some areas. I, too, am bbeginning to gain some new insights into my feelings and behavior, andit really helps.

Thanks again.

LanceC


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#71119 - 07/26/01 05:18 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


DANMAN: Thanks for the clarification! I am glad that your church group has helped you. I used to attend a similar group that was 12-step based, but not church-based. It was Sex Addicts Anonymous. I also tried Sexaholics Anonymous. While I found them helpful to a point, they did not address at all the abuse side of my issues, the real crux of my problems. Instead, they were focused completely on abstinence, and while being abstinent from my sex addiction was important, the underlying issues that were leading me to act out sexually were far more important. Until I could get support around those issues, real and long-term cessation from sexual acting out behaviors was not achievable. For me, the best support is a survivors group, preferably all male.

I am certainly all for religion-based recovery groups for those for whom they are a good match and helpful in their recovery. I am also for non-religion-based groups, as well.

A critical factor for me in feeling comfortable with any group is that it not purport to be THE solution, as some groups do, whether religious or not religious. I also react negatively when people in a group start to tell me or anyone else that they know what it right for me or others. When either of things happens, I feel angry and fearful and believe that they are actually violating what is supposed to be a basic tenet of such groups: acceptance, non-judgment, and simply sharing experience, strength and hope without telling people what they SHOULD do.

It sounds like your group is doing a great job. I am glad that it is working so well for you. Keep up the good work, and thanks for sharing your experience so that others can benefit!

LanceC


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#71120 - 07/26/01 05:27 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


EDDIE: How true it is that we each find our own way and follow our own path, making our own choices along the way...some that are helpful, and some that are not.

When I was married, my then wife knew of my interest in guys and was OK with the interest, as long as i did not act on it...and while I was married, I did not. For me, beiung married is a commitment and one not to be broken. I did, however, masturbate at times with gay pornography or just a gay fantasy in my mind when she was not around. That was part of my sexual acting out at the time.

In the last few weeks, I have not even felt the urge to act out sexually because I am fainlly dealing straight on with my pain and loss and confusion, etc. and allowing myself to grieve very painful losses. It is these feelings from which I have been running by turning to porn, casual one-time sex, etc.

It feels GREAT to finally be crying and journaling and reading meditations and affirmations again, etc. I feel like I have finally emerged from a long period of sitting in addiction until I was ready to finally face my pain and work through it.

And these discussion boards have been a great help to me...thank you all!!!

LanceC


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#71121 - 07/29/01 06:00 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
pondboy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 59
Loc: benicia, california, usa
Lance, I'm glad you are doing better. I can tell by reading the responses to your questions that some may have misunderstood what I meant. I will try again. you need to look into your heart and listen to what will make you truly happy. not just for the moment but with yourself over time. there are no "single" solutions for any of us. but we all want to be happy. I am much happier being gay and wish I'd done it sooner.


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#71122 - 07/29/01 08:13 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi, Pondboy, and thank you. I hope someday...and I believbe I will...come to a realization about who i am and what I want. I am sure that it makes a tremedous difference in one's life to finally discover...or rediscover...who one is and what one wants in life.

I look forward to that day when I finally know.

Thanks again.

LanceC


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#71123 - 07/29/01 08:53 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
jerunamuck Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/19/01
Posts: 22
Loc: Maine
Lance, I'm beginning to wonder if maybe we aren't the study you seek.

For the last three years I've been presenting myself as gay. Why? well, of the >300 people Ive been sexual with in my life (most are abusers) less than 15 are female (most are abusers). Still I insisted I wasn't gay. A therapist I no longer see asked me how I could know without ever having been in an appropriate homosexual relationship. I thought it was a good question and decided to find out first hand.

So, what have I learned form this experience? Well, I still have not been sexually intimate with anybody in 10 years, I'm just as terified of sexual intimacy with men as I am with women. I've made some wonderful friends that I'll cherish for the rest of my life (this is really a big deal for me). My thoughts and sexual fantasies are just as twisted and degrading as ever but they don't include any of these gay friends that I care deeply about.
Quote:
Code:
Ah, there's the crux of the biscuit

guys, might I suggest you ask yourself this question. Are the people you care about in any of your sexual fantasies?

One other thing I learned from my gay friends is that the "healthy" gays I know fantasize about people they care about. The unhealthy gays I'm acquainted with talk insesantly about anonymous, degading, and selfish sexual behaviors acted out with people they don't know or don't care about. The more they rant, the more it's aparent to me they feel lonely, unloved, unlovable, and hopeless. This is particularly disturbing to me because it's now I feel most of the time. Maybe I'm just projecting here!

Damn this is hard to say... my most erotic sexual fantasies are of being used callously by men I despise or don't know. Sometimes, in the heat of passion, I'll see myself as a child. When I'm depressed or stressed out I find the idea of masturbating to memories of my abuse iresistable. At these times it takes all my energy and new coping skills to intervene. is it any wonder that I loath myself at these times, struggle with self esteme,... guess I'd better copy this one to my journal!



[ 07-29-2001: Message edited by: jerunamuck ]


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#71124 - 07/30/01 03:46 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
getteddie of Baltimore, I tried to use the e-mail address you gave me but yahoo says they don't have the address. What gives? bosishere@yahoo.com by the way, I used it twice, once as you gave me, and then I took out all those "m" in the address you gave me, but still they said they have no address. that comes from yahoo's central office. I would suggest you try somethime else. bos


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#71125 - 08/01/01 11:29 AM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
i do not know of any studies but i do now how messed up i am sexually....i was first abused at age 2 or 3......i'm 42 now and have never had sex with anybody in my life......i'm fairly attractive and have had numerous offers from guys and girls, but sex totally freaks me out......i've tried to commit suicide a bunch of times, but since i quit therapy a couple of months ago, the thoughts are getting stronger....i will not go to the hospital again....it does no good......nothing does any good......i do not know where to turn....if you'd like to contact me, i can be reached at mikedow24@hotmail.com......take care of yourself......michael


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#71126 - 08/01/01 05:41 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
getteddie Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 226
Loc: Cub Hill, Md
Bsishere and Everyone,
My E-mail address is http://www.getteddie@yahoo.com I'm here if you E-mail me I will answer...if still kicking!

Eddie


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#71127 - 08/14/01 04:37 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Jerunamuck: Thanks so much for your post. I am pressed for time at the moment and therefore need to postpone responding. You have given me much to think about.

I will respond soon. Thanks again.

LanceC


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#71128 - 08/28/01 10:55 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey Lance,

A few things in your posts resonated with me and I figured I'd throw in my two cents.

As for the sexuality/abuse issue (does it make us gay?): my situation is a little complex. I was molested at an early age (6-9) by my sister. After that, for the most part, I did not have sex again until I was 24. Since this was with a man (and all other sex has been likewise), I always wondered in the back of my mind if what my sister did to me turned my desires away from woman. I was definitely freaked out by the abuse and I figured it had to play a part.

After speaking with therapists and reading books, I've discovered that most educated professionals don't believe sexual trauma affects basic sexuality. Sure, abuse gives an entry into a world you might not have known of intimately, but it doesn't determine anything completely.

Clinically speaking, people who advocate the idea that abuse affects sexuality, would predict that I would not be gay since my abuser was a female. Instead, I would either retreat from sex, or be exhibit Don Juanisms. Neither were the case. After a three-year relationship, I did start having a lot of casual sex, but everything was with men.

Right now, I'm just beginning to really confront the incest/abuse. I did a little therapy two years ago and then brought it up to my sister soon. After putting things on hold for a while, I'm now hoping to attend a group session soon. I'm just beginning to see how this has all really fucked up how I relate with people, and I'm hoping that some community will relieve the crushing anxiety I often have.

Okay, I'm rambling now. I was going to send this just to Lance, but I thought I'd just post it in general as I guess that is what this is for, no?

I'm pretty green to all this. Thanks for reading everybody.


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#71129 - 08/29/01 04:33 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


you know you brought up something which I have forggotten about. My sister around the time I was very young had me get in her bed with her , we were just children, i can still remember her saying that she wanted to know what it was like becasue she saw this on soap operas. WOw makes me wonder if this has had an impact on why I am so shy around women . I have never had a relationship with a woman at all. I am 30 yrs old now. So strange. I am still a virgin.

Well, anyway she had me get on top of her and pretend like we were having sex.

I think I was between 7@8. she is like 2 yrs older than me.

Anyway I am going to look into how this has impacted my life .

thanks.


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#71130 - 08/29/01 05:47 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey Donp,

Thanks for your response. I just want to be clear about my past. My sister's 7 years older and we had full-on sex (vaginal penetration) for three years. I don't want to try and belittle what happened with you, there could be something there. But I think it's pretty normal for kids to play around like you said. Many people I know have had such play and my therapist has told me it is very normal with kids--even siblings--of similar ages. The problems are when power and force (whether mental or physical) come into the picture.

I hope I'm not diminishing what your saying. I just don't want you to be too freaked out over something that might be fairly common. Please, someone jump in if I'm way off base here.


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#71131 - 08/31/01 06:29 AM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality - Any Connections?
pondboy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 59
Loc: benicia, california, usa
hey, Incalifornia, welcome to our discussion group!!! you and I are neighbors. I'm only about 25 minutes from you. thanks for your input into this discussion. chuck (pondboy)_


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