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#71077 - 12/19/06 10:00 AM what is "gay"?-w/introduction
blueturtle Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 8
Loc: Eastern Washington
Hello, new guy here.
I've read some posts and their lineages and they have sparked some of my long standing questions. This being my first visit to this site, I am feeling a sense of hope and "gladness" that this exists and has been here for seemingly quite some time for seemingly quite a lot of male survivors. And also some hope (and wariness) in including myself.
What Ive read so far has sounded compassionate, strong, kind and honest. Those are a balance of qualities I've been working to unearth and to bring together in myself. They have seemed more fleeting and fragmented than real or genuine lately- perhaps due to years of the distortion in my perception from the depression and PTSD. They're in here though and they are sufacing more than I am used too, actually. So anyway heres the deal.
Im 38. Ive been concious of being gay and have awknowdged it since 20-. I however have not had a "boyfriend" all this time. I've rarely let myself have sex-with others. And have pretty much kept isolated and to myself most of my last 15 years. Probably classic traits of a "survivor".
I have avoided or loosely orbitted the gay "community" most of these years. Ive not seen or heard much of myself reflected in the community or its individuals so far. Bits here and there but I have such a sense of tribelessness. An outsider of the outsiders
And then theres the memories of the abuse(from a grandfather, uncle and teacher). I "remembered" during a period of time in my mid twenties. Ive varified most of the family stuff by way of a black sheep aunt who exposed all the untold family secrets during a family confrontation I set up- finding out she was abused by her dad/my g-pa also.
Since being back in my home town I have also gone to the school superintendant with what I remembered about the teacher, when I was strong enough, because I found out he was still in the school system.
So where I'm at now and what I'm still struggling with is how the abuse is stil twisted up with being gay in my (sub)mind. I think I'm afraid to let my self BE gay (ie. make friends, fall in love, have lots of sex, fight for human equality, work to end AIDS, watch lots of old musicals and host eclectic theme parties-though mostly its make friends and fall in love). Because I, somewhere in my unreachable unconcious, have concluded it is a reflection or byproduct or worse- a carrying on of the abuse- for me to be gay.
Then to top it all off, theres the going to hell bit. I am spiritually inclined but have tried to squish that down and out also along with my sexuallity. Affraid perhaps to hear more of the damnation and rejection but also disbelieving when I hear love and acceptance. And I have heard this as I tend to lean towards more nonchristian spiritual paths. Somewhere, again submind I think, I got it that God and gay dont go together.
This is more of a novellette than a post. I apologise AND I am grateful if you are still reading.
O.K. with all that said; confusion from the abuse, lack of gay familiars, fear of hell and damn-nation, etc... With all that I still feel theres something deeper and true-er inside connected with the "gayness" thing. That its not just about the sex or sexuallity. That there is something innately important, purposeful, even magical(or"special") about being gay. Its a faint quiet feeling but its there.
So WHAT IS BEING GAY? is it a real thing or just a label weve put to a behavior so we can conveniently quarantine others or ourselves? I would love to hear what other people think or feel about this who also have had this sex abuse in their back ground. What is it that makes you (us) gay?
Trying to figure out if gay is real and God is real seem to be the two main questions my life has banged up against now. And of course how to love myself and others in the face of all the pain. So if you made it this far in the "post" and have found any personal answers to these issues I would love to hear. Again thanks.Keep on truckin' Daniel


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#71078 - 12/20/06 02:18 AM Re: what is "gay"?-w/introduction
Happy Birthday Brian Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 1563
Loc: Upstate NY
Hi Daniel,

Welcome to Male Survivor! I'm glad that you finally found us! This is a wonderful site with lots of friendly and supportive people. Sorry I can't help you out with any of your gay issues, but I'm sure some of gay community here will respond to you soon! In the mean time, kick your shoes off, get some hot chocolate (with whip cream) and relax; you are among friends here!

Recovery is Possible!

Brian

_________________________
Recovery is Possible!

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#71079 - 12/20/06 02:43 AM Re: what is "gay"?-w/introduction
froggy12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/06
Posts: 527
Loc: Marlboro, MA 01752
Daniel,

Out near Walla Walla?
I lived in the Castro area of San Francisco and I moved north because it was a gay ghetto. That's not reality. I consider my sexuality in the same context of my being a Democrat, Catholic and recovering drunk. It is who I am. I don't flaunt it.

As for the religious condemnation, that is their problem. Where is their charity? God judges, not mankind. Biblical intepretention has caused a lot of problems. Why is it that 'literalists' don't obey all the dicates about circumcision, how women are supposed to behave when in their periods, dietary restrictions etc. If they spent more time praising God and not nosing into the business of others, they might see God is in all of us. Anyone who says they know what God thinks is a lunatic and blasphemous. So keep it simple. If we are made in the image and likeness of God, God does not err. If you believe, just ask God to show you the way. And God will.

froggy12

_________________________
??

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#71080 - 12/20/06 05:49 AM Re: what is "gay"?-w/introduction
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Daniel,

Welcome. You've definitely come to a place where you'll find a lot of caring support.

You've asked a mouthful of questions in those two. Many of us are or have been there asking the same ones. I believe that in many ways they are best answered on your own journey of discovery. I will say that in my opinion God is very real and really does love and care about his creation.

Can't help you on the gay issue as that one is definitely something you'll have to work with in your own time and way. I wish you the best with that, but would say that the more important issue could possibly be determining what in means to have committed relationship with someone you can love.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#71081 - 12/20/06 03:34 PM Re: what is "gay"?-w/introduction
george of kent Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: delaware
Hello, Daniel! Welcome Home!
What is being Gay? Well, for me, it is only the Blessing of being able to see (and judge) our world from the viewpoint of the outsider.
It has little to do with the physicality of genital sex; nothing to do with being able to set and elegant table or to memorize line of dialogue from Bette Davis movies.
In American culture today, the "majority" (white, straight, lower middle class) must learn to listen to the minority voices who can and must always point out when the Emperor has no clothes.
---
This may not directly address your question, but think about my response for a day or two. All the other related issues of queerdom will hopefully (eventually) sort of fall into place for you.
Much love, etc.,

_________________________
"We are only two and yet our howling can encircle the world's end.
Frightened, you are my only friend.
And frightened we are, every one.
Someone must take a stand -- Coward, take my coward's hand"
Arthur Laurents

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#71082 - 12/20/06 10:38 PM Re: what is "gay"?-w/introduction
naturelover Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 2
Loc: Oklahoma
Nature lover - Please read your PM regarding the posting policies!! Thank you.

Howard

_________________________
Naturelover

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#71083 - 12/21/06 02:12 AM Re: what is "gay"?-w/introduction
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi, I thought maybe reading this could help.
The Science Of Sexual Orientation

Take care,
Clifford

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#71084 - 01/02/07 06:28 AM Re: what is "gay"?-w/introduction
blueturtle Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 8
Loc: Eastern Washington
Hello.
I have been reading the replys to "what is gay" but havent answered till now. I hope this reaches the responders. Thanks for the welcomes and insights. A lot there.

Froggy, thanks for the wise peceptions and even though I agree it hasnt trumped the brimstone crap. I'm logically aware of the "biblical interpretations" delema (more like war) and I have heard some sound and wise counter arguments to the religious condemnation. It hasnt changed my deep seated "false" perspective though. It dosent seem to reach that inner place where my shame and selfhatred live (or were created) which I think is where the religious fears have embedded themselves. I need to learn how to reach that spot and change my heart not just my head. Asking God is a good Idea and I have in so many ways. And will again-right now. Each time I hope I get clearer on what I'm asking for, more aware of myself and where i'm at and closer to surrendering it all. I dont know if thats how it works but it feels like theres something I'm holding on to. Seems I'm not letting God do his/her thing with me. A control thing? Or the healing is really happening - just under my radar and so0o0 slow... A wise friend(sponor)once told me that she was told by her "wise friend" (both far in their healing from MPD and abuse through AA and using the 12 steps) That fruit ripens slowly on the tree but it takes only a second to let go and drop when its ready. So I am trying to trust I'm in "the ripening process". when Im depressed thats hard.

John, The whole "committed relationship with someone I love" is a huge can of worms. I never think I'm well enough or That I would be too much of a downer for someone to hang out with. I'm not happy enough for love

There actually is someone that has sparked my interest. I however have been regressing. I'm sure its my sabotage reflex. I havent said anything to him about the "intrest" but somehow I think I've already messed it up.

George, The "outsider perspective" is one of those "gifts" I feel that comes with being "gay". I do think we have a greater capacity for a greater awareness. That dosent sound right. Everyone has the capacity. I think as a sexual minority I(we?)are more impervious to the cultural brainwash. Not all, but a lot of us anyway. (Not that I'm not brainwashed). That sounds nice actually. I wish I could wash my brain. Get rid of all these fears and crap from the abuse.

Clifford, Thanks for that CBS news article. That was really interesting.I didnt know so much research was being done. Expecially on the gay probabilities of a third son with no sisters born of left handed immigrant parents in a republican state. I jest. I am going to try and find the 60 minutes show it was in. It was actually inspiring to me for some reason. thanks

So yet another epic post/reply (I just saved 2/3rds of it so as not to torture you with too many of my whining insecurities all at once.) Theres just soo much to say. I guess it gets all bottled up in my self imposed isolation.

Thanks for your kindness, mucho gusto.
Daniel


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#71085 - 01/02/07 03:11 PM Re: what is "gay"?-w/introduction
froggy12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/06
Posts: 527
Loc: Marlboro, MA 01752
Daniel,

Emotion vs Intellect, which rules? (Fr Martin tapes). You have to love yourself first. Love is goodness, and you have goodness. When you accept (love) yourself then you can branch out with the love for another. Slowly. The old hormones are still flowing like sap in the spring, so just be careful.

froggy

_________________________
??

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#71086 - 01/07/07 05:59 AM Re: what is "gay"?-w/introduction
abcd Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/00
Posts: 189
Loc: GA
Hello Blue Turtle,

I haven't been to this site in years and really don't check this site too often, but felt inspired to check back. I quickly read some things you wrote and I can relate--I think one of the hardest things was detangling my sexuality from the abuse. The sooner I figured that out the better--also the sooner I was able to reconcile my faith with my sexuality, the better. Rest assured that you're not alone. Feel free to look at this site...it is by no means a complete list, but it may prove helpful to find others or even just welcoming congregations. (www.christianlesbians.com) Congrats on finding this site. For me, it feels like night and day from when I first found this site. There are good people on here. Take it easy. God Bless.


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