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#70932 - 05/26/01 03:26 PM Re: how do i know if i'm gay?
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
Charguyus, I very much agree with Pondboy.good luck! bosishere


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#70933 - 05/26/01 05:30 PM Re: how do i know if i'm gay?
George Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 120
Loc: NY metro
Yes, be very careful of people like *me*, but also be very careful of those who try to steer you in the gay direction.

I do believe Charguyus was asking for *any* help, not just to be brain washed into being gay. If I'm not mistaken, someone also told him that "yes, he's gay"...Where was all your concern then I wonder???

My response was based on my own past issues, the same he described as his own. And yes, you bet I'm clear with what I know and say. I am not being controlled by my past abuse any longer, I'm in control of my life and have been for a long time now. I wish for you all the peace I have now.

FYI, I have nothing to do with any religious org or conversions. I just want people to know the truth and not be led to destroy the lives of their wives and kids.

~George~


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#70934 - 05/27/01 06:41 PM Re: how do i know if i'm gay?
farscape513 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 13
Loc: Tampabay
People like George scare me. This site is a place for people with similar problems to come and discuss things with someone who understands those problems. It IS NOT a soap box for people with an agenda to come on and try and "sell" their wares. I don't believe anyone on this board is trying to turn anyone gay, as George contends. If you don't want to discuss issues on which this particular board is intended, then go elsewhere and don't try to add further guilt to a segment of society that has been down the guilt trip road many times. We need understanding here, not sermons.


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#70935 - 05/28/01 12:56 PM Re: how do i know if i'm gay?
George Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 120
Loc: NY metro
If people LIKE me scare you, I have some news for you, I am one of you! Only difference is maybe I am past you in dealing. If some of you can't handle honesty & real life, then maybe you should go back to sticking your heads in the sand.

Just maybe yours is not the only opinion on this subject, heaven forbid, huh? Excuse me, I thought this was a discussion forum, and not just a pitty party.

I could care less if someone's gay, thats their problem. My concern is for guys who were sexually abused (like me) and like most are left with same sex attractions. For just about all, this drive is confusing and *unwanted*, leading to further self loathing. As you know most suffer in silence, alot act out and hate themselves for it.
These are the guys that I want to know that they aren't gay if they don't want to be, not just that being gay is ok and is your right to be. That there is an escape route through all the mess.

Just like they should know that their not the only one s/a ever happened to, they should also know that most suffer the same way as them. That having that same sex attraction doesn't mean that their gay. The same sex attraction *is* a usual residual effect of the abuse. While stuck in this mode, they keep the cycle of abuse alive in their lives. There is a reason for everything we do, and there are plenty for this like, control, fear of opposite sex, self punishment etc...

Now if that info offends you, then your the ones with the agenda. If your too caught up with your rights to do or be anything you want to be, trying to silence any differing opinion, then your the one with the agenda. If you don't see the one sidedness and the steering, its time to open your eyes.

If you still can't or don't want to understad where I'm coming from, then you still have a lot to learn. No sermon, just my view of things.

Another news flash! This is exactly what this forum is for. Discussions usually have more than one side & opinion.

I have met and dealt with a lot of survivors over the years. 90% have had some issues with same sex attractions, most were not gay, but ended up acting out before dealing with the abuse issues. Even *women* survivors I met, that totally blew me away. Nobody on the face of the earth can convince me that s/a doesn't mess with the victims sexuality.

Maybe you still see it as your right, I see it as the abuse/r still abusing, like all the other bad feelings...

~George~


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#70936 - 05/28/01 03:39 PM Re: how do i know if i'm gay?
pondboy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 59
Loc: benicia, california, usa
george. being gay doesn't mean the abuser is still abusing. I agree that there are lots of viewpoints worth exploring but you obviously cannot concieve of a gay man who was abused being an emotionally healthy, mature person. hope that I am wrong but this sounds like what you are saying.


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#70937 - 05/30/01 06:44 PM Re: how do i know if i'm gay?
Bull Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/01
Posts: 4
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Being gay, open and honest has been the most wonderful gift in the world. I feel balanced, empathic, and connected to nature. I don't have ridiculous hang ups about being close to male friends whether they be straight or gay. I contribute to society both with my levity and naturally mischevious outlook because I am not constrained unlike my heterosexual friends. I bring laughter, joy and beauty to the world and to those around me. And I don't have to miss out on one thing life has to offer ie. children, marriage, love, comfort. I can and do have all those things and more in abundance thankfully because I am gay and free!


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#70938 - 05/31/01 11:51 AM Re: how do i know if i'm gay?
dbr1955 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/01
Posts: 69
Loc: Michigan
Hi,

everyone take a deep breath, what a discussion about being gay or not.

First realize we have all been sexually, physically, and mentally abused,that comes with the territory. We have all had thoughts of being gay, pornography issues,etc.

Now each person determines how they are going to live their lives, see God doesn't force anything on us, he gives us a free will and we can and are able to choose. As people if we have to argue over out sexual desires,needs or wants, their must be some confusion of right and wrong. Make a list of
the benefits of being gay, then a list of benefits being straight. Now the list should be the whole life cycle (THAT IS WHEN YOU GET OLD AND GRAY, OR WHAT WILL YOU DIE FROM, WHAT lEGACY WILL YOU LEAVE BEHIND FOR YOUR LOVED ONES.

THIS IS A PERSONAL LIST. I DO NOT WANT TO MAKE JUDGEMENT ON ANYONE OF YOU, I JUST KNOW THAT TO LIVE A HEALTHY LIFE,YOU MUST BE HEALTHY IN MIND BODY AND SPIRIT AND IF YOU HAVE TO DEFEND YOURSELF AND YOUR LIFESTYLE,STEP BACK AND THING ABOUT WHY YOU HAVE TOO.


THANKS

DBR

_________________________
Doug

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#70939 - 06/02/01 09:20 AM Re: how do i know if i'm gay?
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
Hello all. I had a long entry to these posts, but just when I was going to tell my computer to post it, NETZERO told me it was shutting down, so all of my previous writing was lost. maybe that is good, maybe bad. but I remember some things, 1. my brain is not like b4 the subway hitting me, so my memoray is piss poor, but I do remember that I was saying --" life is life, and some people think good, some bad. 2. there is ALWAYS people who want to change our thinking, whatever it may be. 3. as my counselor gave me this weeks homework - pages about "confrontation" and to write (for me 2) story(ies) about what was done to me (for me 2 guys in a place we think is safe- a hospital, and my daddy, and what he did to me, while we are taught that we should love and respect our parents) I can only think of those 2 stories and a lot of four (4) letter words to describe how I feel. But then as I said, life is life, and we try to make the best of any situation. so it is on to the homework. Maybe things will get better-I don't know. but if we are gay, straight, or in between, we are what we are, so lets TRY to make the best of what situation we are in. bye bosishere


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#70940 - 06/08/01 08:01 AM Re: how do i know if i'm gay?
blaidd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 240
Loc: Australia
Disclaimer: I respect that others have differing viewpoints, and the thoughts expressed below are my own and not associated with any organization or political affiliation.

Human sexuality is a complex matter as it is, without the additional factor of abuse thrown in. However I do understand that it is a natural response of a male survivor to ask this question. Lets face it, Kinsey did research decades okay that showed there was a whole spectrum of human sexuality that mainstream society chose to ignore.

I've been around therapeutic circles for some time now, both offline and online. I have been involved in therapy groups, men's organisations, participated in seminars and publications about abused men. Oh and for those that don’t know, yes I am gay.

So in my own experience, I have come across many male survivors. I think given the nature of sexual abuse, which is mainly perpetrated by men, but not always of course, it is a common experience for the male survivor to have confusion over his sexual orientation. For the record, I consider myself to have been abused by heterosexual men with a predilection for abusing children, not by men who were gay. (How’s that for controversy ;-) )

Given that I am gay and have mixed in the gay and lesbian community, I have met many a gay man who has been sexually abused. However, I have also met plenty of gay men who haven’t been abused and are perfectly well adjusted and happy with their sexuality. In my forays into other areas of society, I have met many straight male survivors, and while they may have had some confusion about their own sexuality, predominantly identify as heterosexual.

So what am I am saying, given that long winded expose of my own experience in relating with other male survivors, is that I have not found a correlation between sexual abuse and being gay.

When I first started dealing with my own abuse issues, I did ponder on the question “did the abuse make me gay?” Strangely enough I avoided sexual contact with men as an adult, right up to the age of 27. This is despite having lived with my gay uncle for eight years, and having stayed in the closet and portrayed myself as asexual. I did not have intimate relations with women and never have. I was scared of men, and I couldn’t bear to be touched by men, and yet I knew I was gay. I used to think it was a cruel irony that I was abused by men and yet attracted to them physically and emotionally. It wasn’t until I began healing from the abuse, that I finally came to terms with my sexuality. I realised being gay paled into insignificance when compared to the impact of my abuse on my life.

There is the common argument that some lesbian survivors become gay because they were abused by men, and therefore seek the safe company of women. I know my best friend, has this belief, and she is a lesbian. I tend to disagree with this argument given my own experience. If being gay was a learned behaviour, or a choice, why would I continue to put myself under so much agony, in terms on having intimate relationships with men as an adult. Using the argument of my friend, wouldn’t I obviously become heterosexual and seek the safe company of women??? I think not, because I have no sexual or emotional attraction in terms of intimacy towards women. Having therapy, and having moved down the healing path some way, and with some way to go, has not made me want to change my sexual orientation. I know this argument has holes in it, but it is what I choose to believe. For example, one could choose to believe that I was socialised or conditioned into being attracted to men, given the abuse. Some non gay men may indeed act out sexually with other men because they are confused. But I think if you are predominantly attracted to men over a long period of time, then you are gay.

For me the question is not why am I gay, but why was I sexually abused. It is the sexual abuse in my childhood that has caused so much dysfunction in my adult life, not the fact that I am gay. Loving another man has brought much joy into my life, and while the act of intimacy is still problematic I wouldn’t change my sexual orientation, even if I had a choice. I didn’t choose to be gay, I am gay… ultimately you come to a point in your life, where the whys and therefores of your own sexual identity become irrelevant. I understand that this is not as easy as it sounds, given my own struggle, and I feel for those who are still coming to terms with theirs.

Healing my sexuality came not with acceptance of being gay, but with the acceptance of having been abused, and the impact that the trauma had on my day-to-day functioning. As an adult male, I am attracted to men, not just on a sexual level, but also on an emotional and spiritual one. I may be an unhappy abused man, but as a gay man I certainly am comfortable with being that way.

My advice to anyone questioning his or her sexuality is to be kind to yourself. Understand that confusion is a common experience for survivors of both genders. Give yourself time and space to explore your feelings. Whether you are gay or not, in the long run you’ll know deep down inside your heart. Loving another human being is one of the most precious gifts we have to share in this life, whether its with someone of the same or a different sex. When you reach that point in your life, you’ll find that it is incredibly liberating….

Below is one of the best articles I've read on the net in regard to gay men who have been abused.

Male-to-Male Child Sexual Abuse In the Context of Homophobia
http://www.kalimunro.com/article_malesurvivors.html


Take care, regards

blaidd
(pronounced blaith, meaning wolf)

_________________________
Blaidd (pronounced as blaith/blithe) is a welsh word meaning wolf.

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#70941 - 06/08/01 12:46 PM Re: how do i know if i'm gay?
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
Blaidd, I very much like what you say, becase it makes me think, and I consider that's a good omen, if you will. I do have some questions however. Maybe you could e-mail me directly or we could use this means to post back and forth. I think, and hope you could e-mail me directly, becuase some of my abuse happened when I couldn't do anything about it - a hospital- and I don't want to repeat myself to others who, on this page have read about some of my past. Blaidd, thank you. bosishere@yahoo.com


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