hey guys, i've posted a couple messages on the other board. my dilema is this, i'm married right now and have two beautiful sons, however i keep looking at gay pornography. i've done this for years. i don't know if it's a product of my abuse or if i'm really gay. i've had a couple of male encounters while i've been married and now i'm talking to another man over the internet and have been doing so for a few months. i'm just really confused right now. any help would be appreciated. my email is charguyus@yahoo.com, thanks.

hello,I'm replying here but if you want me to reply to your e-mail,please tell me. are you seeing a counselor-if not please do so. I am and also in a group who are just beginning to talk about guys being gay because of what happened.It IS VERY CONFUSING to all of us and some days are of some are very shitty. Me i'm gay and came out in the mid 70's but it is still very confusing when dealing with straight men AND ALL WOMEN. please resoond, my e-mail is bosishere@yahoo.com thanks a milion. sorry for spelling I was hit by a NYC subway train in 1990.

I'd say it's pretty clear that yes you are gay and which opens up a whole can of worms being married and all. My best advice is to steer way clear of those Exodus folks. Reparative therapy is a medevil falacy of the far Christian right and besides if you really delve into their numbers they don't look good at all. Even their founder recently was spotted in a Gay Bar. Be totally open and honest no matter how difficult and painful. Don't be afraid to ask for help here on the boards. It's difficult but for me living a lie or is much more painful. And I'm sure many on this board can attest to what happens when we try to deny and stuff things. trickytoro@operamail.com if you ever need to talk.

The first thing I'll strongly suggest is see a counselor and/or find a discussion group. If you can't find any resources, PFLAG (www.pflag.org) is always good.

I too would recomend staying away from the "ex-gay" community. You are either gay or strayt (or bi). Nothing you, I, or anyone else can do will change that.

If you are gay, all any sort of "conversion therapy" will do is make you try to be something you aren't. That's a strong form of denial, and all of what I've seen either here or in the process of coming out leads me to believe denying who we are does anything but hurt. Most of the pain I've felt in my life has come from denying who I am. I don't recomend you do it too.

If you're strayt, I don't think "conversion therapy" will work either. If you really are strayt, then whatever is generating your attraction to men isn't your sexual identity. Trying to change your sexual identity won't help, since it's not the problem!

If you're Bi, I don't think "conversion therapy" will help either. It would be emphasizing one part of you over another, knocking you out of balance.

One big question is how satisfactory has your relationship with your wife been (you don't have to tell us the answer). If it's been good (or women play an active part of your sexual fantasies), I'd say consider the possibility you're Bi. Accepting the fact you're Bi wouldn't mean you have to act on it. So you like Playgirls along with Playboys. And it is possible to be Bi and in a monogamous relationship - one of the women I live with is, as she puts it, "Bi but in a long-term committed Lesbian relationship."

But be honest with yourself. If you aren't really attracted to women, don't pretend to be Bi. If you're really gay, events will arise in your life to where you have to accept it or be VERY miserable. The longer you wait, the worse it'll be. Think on it, but if you are gay, tell your wife sooner than later. It might mean divorce (which is why I say think on it), but if you do it sooner rather than later, you have less chance for your being gay to have damaged your relationship with your wife. Since you have kids, and I think you both will want to stay in their lives, staying as amicable as possible with each other will help.

Take care,

Bill

[ 05-17-2001: Message edited by: Bill ]

Only you can answer that for you.

It dosen't matter to me what you are.

My wife knew me when I drank and when I went to the gay bars for a trick, one night stands. She knew a little, not all the abuse I have been through also.

It was God and I who decieded to get married, when we did, my wife and I.
She was already married but I waited for her devorice to go through.

She had been sexualy abused before and an understanding person in the sexual abuse area of problems.

Like my mother whom died of drinking, I have a problem with drinking. I chose not to drink today because I came to know drinking to well for other reasons, I just don't. But I still can drink, if I want too, someday I may. Who knows? but not today.

It is your behavior that distinguish your interests or desires and make your life arousing, and pertaining to and affecting your sexuality.

I would think, I may be sedateing part of my
feelings for a reason, then when an opportunity, the right mouent to take action toward a definite encounter, a corrupt practice, ranging from exhilaration to stupefaction, then prey to the repetition of compulsion and idealizing, and refusing to acknowledge ones feelings, and passing them on unconsciously to the next generation.

I had help, may you do the same.

fmighell Anc Ak

how you doing. nice talking last week. I just read through your replies. watch out for the exodus folks. they have their interests at heart, not yours. hope we link up soon. best, chuck

ALL the replies are GOOD, VERY GOOD at least that is what I think. being gay is not easy for any of us, but as the saying goes --"there IS light at the end of the tunnel." take care Bos

It sounds like you have had some good advice on this post. I would agree with the others to stay away from the "aversion" therapy people. I know of no proven cases where it worked. You didn't say if you love your wife. If you do, I would definately try and make it work for the sake of the sons you love. Maybe you just need to drop the pornograph, not the family. Good luck in whatever you do.

Hi Charguyus,

I was in your shoes just a couple of years ago. The answer to your question is NO, your not gay. Childhood sexual abuse really messes with every early truth and blurs all kinds of boundaries, especially sexuality!

Anyway, there are a lot of reasons for the confusing unwanted attractions. Mine, and probably for most were due to trying to regain CONTROL over what happened to us early on. The need to feel in control and conquer is all rooted back in the abuse itself. And by following this need to overcome just keeps us in the abuse cycle. You are not alone in this, most work through it, but some do get stuck in the cycle.

I have written alot more about these same sex attractions and what causes it in my web page, please read it, you can link to it through my profile.

Your obviously not gay if you have a loving marriage and two boys.

Exodus International does indeed work, denial works BOTH ways as you've seen here. And no, its not their own interests they have at heart, its your heart and soul that there trying to heal and teach.

Nobody is born gay. people get confused early on, some just want to be contrary. It ultimately comes down to choice.

I know people living the gay lifestyle, they are lost souls leading miserable lives, talk about living in denial! They squawk about not being accepted and condoned, as if that was the cause of their sorrow. Meanwhile, if they would just open their own eye's, they'd see just how miserable they and the choice they made are. And does misery love company! Watch out for them.

Love it or hate it, thats just the way it is.

I've lived it & I know...

~George~

be careful of people like George who are able to be very clear about what you are without knowing you. you and I have talked on the phone several times and it's clear to me that you are searching. don't let someone from a religious organization define you through their terms only. I'm confident that you are doing well and wish you luck. chuck