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#70698 - 09/29/06 03:25 AM Re: NIGHTMARES
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Steve,

Aha. It sounds like your dreams are repeating ones with no real endings. Have you tried the trick of inventing good endings for them?

The falling bike dream, for example, sounds like a recollection of a feeling that trying to escape will just bring you into greater peril - i.e. that feeling of danger everywhere that abused boys feel. So when you awake from that one, add the ending of, say, a safe pleasant landing a moment later in a warm sunny field of ripe strawberries with no owner in sight \:D - you get off your bike and begin to feast. Keep doing that every time you have the dream - same ending. Resolving the dream may cause it to stop after a few times.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#70699 - 09/30/06 01:04 AM Re: NIGHTMARES
watstobe Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 40
Loc: Jackson, NJ
I appreciate all of the responses. Larry, you did "hit the nail on the head" when you mentioned fear as the crippling problem for all those molested. Fear began with my molestation, and consequently followed me throughout my life. I never felt safe. I trembled at the most minor things. I recall fighting within myself, I wanted to be strong, and yet failed at every attempt. This left me very vulnerable. It allowed for further abuse to carry on, only I was no longer a child, I was a willing participant. Those years are for the most part behind me. Where fear still remains an issue is when I contemplate trying to learn just who I really am. I feel if I let my guard down and find out I'm gay my whole life will unravel and I will be left in a very horrible situation. I hope I over come this and one day find true happiness. Honestly speaking I feel as though I will never conquer this battle and will live a life by myself, which is truly a shame. I am a very loving person who has more than enough to share with a "soul mate." If only I could get past this stage in my life!

Nevertheless, I really find solace reading each message; it is so very therapeutic to know there is someone else who understands completely! I sincerely appreciate and value reading all the posts.

_________________________
Eddie

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#70700 - 09/30/06 01:23 AM Re: NIGHTMARES
sabata Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1948
thanks larry i will try that on my dreams


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#70701 - 09/30/06 01:38 PM Re: NIGHTMARES
watstobe Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 40
Loc: Jackson, NJ
In reading my last response I want to make one thing clear, when I said I was a willing participant I was referring to the fact I could no longer say it was molestation when I allowed the next individual to abuse me. I just wanted to make that point clear.

_________________________
Eddie

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#70702 - 09/30/06 04:59 PM Re: NIGHTMARES
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Eddie,

I understood what you meant in your post, but can I suggest that you not be too hasty to describe yourself as "willing"?

A shattered abused kid doesn't become a secure fortress just because he hits 18; he's a shattered adult. If he feels lost, worthless and doomed, he will see no reason why he should resist further predatory advances. In fact, it may not be possible for him to resist. That's not his fault, just as the abuse when he was a kid wasn't his fault.

I can tell you for certain that had any predator come along after my abuse ended, I would have done anything he wanted. I didn't think I was worth any better treatment. I remember going off to meet some guy about a job fully expecting that there was no job at all and he just wanted sex from me. I figured, So what - it's not like I don't know how to do this.

We do have to take responsibility for what we do as adults; that's just the way life has to be, regardless of our background of troubles. But taking responsibility and acting positively to resolve the problem is one thing - we should do that. Tearing ourselves up for things that happened to us and many other survivors for exactly the same reasons, however, is a road full of new trouble and I think we have to avoid that as much as possible.

On the possibility that you are gay you say this:

Quote:
I feel if I let my guard down and find out I'm gay my whole life will unravel and I will be left in a very horrible situation. I hope I over come this and one day find true happiness.
I hope you find true happiness as well bro, but for that to happen we have to admit who we really are and work from there. If you are gay you are gay. It's part of who you are and not just a matter of sexual preference. Trying to work against that will just lead to a life full of frustration and unhappiness. Don't let this point get clouded by the views of narrowminded bigots.

That said, if you are unsure of your sexuality, then who else could possibly know? It's pretty common for survivors new to recovery to go through doubts of this kind; it's just vital to be totally honest with yourself.

This is the sort of thing we really need a T for, in my opinion. A good T will help you get through all the minefields and scary problems with as little new pain and trauma as possible.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#70703 - 10/01/06 06:36 AM Re: NIGHTMARES
watstobe Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 40
Loc: Jackson, NJ
\:\)

_________________________
Eddie

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#70704 - 10/01/06 06:48 AM Re: NIGHTMARES
watstobe Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 40
Loc: Jackson, NJ
Wow Larry you have truly given me a lot to think about. I say this in the most positive manner. I understand to a certain extent when you wrote:

"A shattered abused kid doesn't become a secure fortress just because he hits 18; he's a shattered adult. If he feels lost, worthless and doomed, he will see no reason why he should resist further predatory advances."

However I feel that at the age of 17 and 18 I made severely bad choices. In deed the years I was molested played a vital role, and yes the person who took advantage of me somehow knew I was vulnerable and played on this, but in the end I did not resist and allowed the sexual act to happen. This was something that plagued me through my teens. My uncle was a priest and brought another seminarian to my home. My mother prepared dinner and was busy with my uncle chatting away. In the same vicinity the priest grabbed hold of me and began to hug me from behind. He advanced his hands south and began to reach my genitals. My heart was pounding a mile a minute and I didnít know what to do. He then stopped there and tried to encourage me to take him to the seashore that was 15 minutes away. My mother insisted I go but I fought her on it. It was winter and I know he would have only taken the matter further should I have gotten in the car with him. When 17 my guidance counselor at school made sexual advances and it was ugly. Third my boss proceeded to make it abundantly clear that he knew I was gay and that I ďjust needed to act upon it and allow myself to be me.Ē Although I didnít want to and resisted at first I did allow him (and the others) to do what he did. This is where I believe in my heart I was a ďwillingĒ participant. I didnít stop any of these guys from invading my territory. As a matter of fact I had to have been sending some kind of signals out for all these guys to make advances. I was never known to be feminine in my actions, but my father did constantly ridicule me and called me a faggot for I was more emotional than my other brothers.

As for my sexuality; my abuser repeatedly over the course of 4 or 5 years not only physically abused me but also repeatedly and consistently drummed into my mind that I would grow up to be a gay man and nothing else. I donít want my abuser to be right. In a sense I donít want him to win this battle.

Thank you so very much Larry for taking the time to read my posts and respond in kind. I sincerely appreciate everyone who shares their views and opinions. It has most definitely made a major impact in my life. As I have stated previously, I sought counseling and worked out most of my demons. In the past year I began with a new T and this guy is unwilling to really approach the situation. I need to conquer the nightmares for I am reliving the abuse all over again. Whenever I bring up the subject of my abuse the T changes the subject. (I was severely injured at work and developed a severe condition that affects my nervous system. I am getting better. Thank the Lord! I began seeing him for depression regarding this matter.)

Sorry if this is way TOO long. It is 1:30AM and I am avoiding going to bed. I had a severely bad dream lst night and I just donít want to go there again. So I ended up using this as a way to vent. Again I apologize for the length of this post, however I feel better getting all this off my chest.

_________________________
Eddie

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#70705 - 10/01/06 05:27 PM Re: NIGHTMARES
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Eddie,

It's good you are working with a T, but you need to be working with someone who will deal with your issues. If you feel you are not being listened to, you should tell the T. And if the problem continues you should just look for a new T.

You have some interesting comments about your sexuality:

Quote:
As for my sexuality; my abuser repeatedly over the course of 4 or 5 years not only physically abused me but also repeatedly and consistently drummed into my mind that I would grow up to be a gay man and nothing else. I donít want my abuser to be right. In a sense I donít want him to win this battle.
I would just say here that the abuser was being a cruel bastard when he told you that, probably in order to keep things going as long as possible. But the truth is that if you are gay he didn't make you that way. Homosexuality is a way of being, thinking and living; it's part of who the gay person is. Abuse, on the other hand, is a crime committed by one person against another who is less powerful. The two are not the same at all.

Finally, back to the question of you allowing abuse to happen. It isn't just a matter of what you DID at the time, Eddie, it's also about how you FELT. The choices you made were bad ones, yes, that's not in dispute. The question is whether you should feel that you are to blame for them.

At the age of 17, how did you feel about yourself? A guy that age doesn't just allow himself to be mistreated for no reason. He does it because he feels worthless, undeserving of anything better, a failure at life, guilty and worthy of punishment, doomed to mistreatment, generally lost and numb, or some combination of those factors. A guy in this dark place just will NOT see resistance as an option - it's better just to get the unevitable over with.

It's worth remembering that when we don't SEE any choices before us, in fact we don't have those choices at all.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#70706 - 10/01/06 10:30 PM Re: NIGHTMARES
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
Eddie - Recovering from Childhood Sexual Abuse (CSA) is really a lot of work. You have been investing in your recovery. A reminder, we were all pretty happy guys and moving through life as we were created to be. Our Perps interfererd with who we were intended to be. Our recovery is essentially getting ourselves back to where we were intended to be. The Perp (Your Perp) can't win if you move as close to who were intended to be. From my perspective, if you are gay or straight...whoever you were created to be...that's who you need to be. Your Perp will not ever win the battle of recovery if you succeed at being who you are created to be. I hope you can grasp what I'm trying to say. Focus on you and who you are instead of defending and manuvering against "the Perp". Find out who you are!

If your therapist is afraid of focusing on your abuse and going to other places; he/she may have a problem...personally (maybe it is in their past); OR professionally (they don't handle CSA, childhood trauma very well) therefore 'don't want to go there'. In any case, you are the consumer and dictate/talk about your needs; if the therapist isn't fixing or helping...then go elsewhere. If I take my watch to the Jeweler and he tries to get me to buy a wall clock instead... I need to find a Jeweler who will fix my watch (my problem). Hope this helps!!


Howard

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

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#70707 - 10/05/06 03:32 AM Re: NIGHTMARES
watstobe Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 40
Loc: Jackson, NJ
Thanks Larry and Howard for your insight. I have read your thoughts and advice, and sincerely appreciate your compassion and understanding . The words you have spoken resonate my previous therapistís guidance. When I stopped counseling with this therapist I assumed I had put the molestation behind me, however the nightmares and the inability to find out who I am speaks otherwise.

In reading your posts I realized the fact I am really so tired of not living life, personally. I feel as if professionally I have succeeded, but in my personal life I have failed. Failed in the sense I have hidden from determining just who I am. I don't know how to begin to just be myself Ö.whatever that may be. Fear and trepidation engulf my every being when it comes time to even consider letting my guard down. How do I start? Do I try a heterosexual relationship and go from there? All I want is true happiness. I consider myself a religious individual, and always fear I will be judged harshly should I find out in the end that I am gay. What could be considered ludicrous is the fact I don't see that when I see anyone else who is gay. I know God loves all his children no matter who you are, and yet I feel should I turn out to be gay God will condemn me. I realize this may not sound irrational, but that is my way of thinking. I am surrounded by individuals who denounce homosexuality. Some have went as far to say that the Aids epidemic was a sign from God to the gay community that their lifestyle is unacceptable. If I learn I am not ďstraightĒ but a gay man I don't know if I have the strength to admit to it to myself let alone the world. Just the thought is overwhelming. It is an issue I hope to overcome. Coming here and reading the various posts has been extremely helpful. I can only hope voicing my thoughts will not only help in my finding out who I truly am but touch someone elseís life who may be struggling in the same manner. Thanks again.

_________________________
Eddie

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