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#70654 - 09/20/06 12:07 PM Re; Jim McGreevy on Oprah
watstobe Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 40
Loc: Jackson, NJ
I watched the Oprah show with which the guest was the former Gov of NJ, Jim McGreevy. I realize there is debate as to his authenticity of coming out but I found his story very compelling. There is a lot of negative comments made toward McGreevy for “living in the closet,” something I relate to a 100%.

Judging Jim McGreevy or anyone for that matter is simply wrong. There is no one in life that is perfect, therefore" judge not lest he be judged." I sympathize with Mr. McGreevy and understand the fears he encountered. I only wish I had the courage to do what he finally did. Despite the enormous achievements of the gay community it is still a very difficult decision to "come out;" the repercussions of doing so are colossal and one must be willing to except the fact their life be changed for ever. With each “outing” comes a reward that trickles down amongst those who have severe trepidation of making this massive move; perhaps it will reflect upon them in a positive manner and allow them to do the same. So rather than be critical, let us praise McGreevy and stand behind him! I only hope that one day I will have such courage!

At the age of 43 I have tried to come to terms with the molestation I encountered as a child, however I cannot “come out” perhaps this is a weakness on my part. What I have found is hearing such stories such as McGreevy’s I am more inclined to admit that I AM A GAY AMERICAN! Now if only I can say this out loud.

I would appreciate to hear from others regarding this topic.

_________________________
Eddie

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#70655 - 09/20/06 01:31 PM Re: Re; Jim McGreevy on Oprah
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
i think everyone has inner fears - and feelings of inadequacy to counter - that stuff -

i mean - not to derail the conversation - i am so facing - i guess my own cowardice - but maybe it's just my own caution

i feel so much like clinging to the life i know

rather than letting go -

and letting what is happening just happen rather than -

open myself to feeling totally controlled by life -


sorry if this is vague -

but i am feeling or remembering something a lady once said to me

she said - you're alone even in a relationship

i think she had a fear of connecting and so she disconnected and remained self centred and untrusting -

all i can say is = maybe i too need to live a life -

of just letting myself - be who i am - and those who i meet who i have a similairity with will or may come into it and out of it -

philip - my hairdresser sage guru said -
to me once -

sometimes you just have to 'get out of the way' and let your life happen -

very true

and when talking to stephanie - another friend

she said about a loss 'if it is meant to return to you - it will'

all i can say is -
i think letting go - is very hard -

and living your dreams - is the best way to live

joseph campbell once said -

if you say to sometime - oh i would love to be a musician - but i could never do that -
that is your dragon (in terms of metphorical 'complex')

live your life eddie - i am gonna make big ass mistakes -

i am scared of being in a state of crisis -

i guess that's life - all i can do is learn how to know to keep positives in my world

and negatives out -

i hope this helps --

mgb

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#70656 - 09/20/06 01:33 PM Re: Re; Jim McGreevy on Oprah
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
and manage somewhat those vicisittudes of daily life ....

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#70657 - 09/20/06 01:45 PM Re: Re; Jim McGreevy on Oprah
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
i know for myself - i need to know - pretty much daily - or reminded - somewhat often that i am

ok - by my friends -

that they love me - etc..

or just poke their heads in with an email and say hi...

little things - little contacts - that they keep expressing - tell

me - i am ok. positive ones-

remember - whether you are GAY or not is not the question -

whether you love people well - that's the measure -

to love and be loved -

and keep going -

that's all from me.

good luck Eddie -

Peace

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#70658 - 09/20/06 01:48 PM Re: Re; Jim McGreevy on Oprah
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
and yes - it's very hard to do this.

because where is the line between what's good for me and you -

?

be yourself - and be expressive -

communicate. communicate. and then you can

decide what's right or what works for you and your partner want.

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#70659 - 09/20/06 06:26 PM Re: Re; Jim McGreevy on Oprah
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Post deleted....Sorry guys; I didn't mean to post anything here -my bad.........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#70660 - 09/21/06 01:33 AM Re: Re; Jim McGreevy on Oprah
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
eh trish -

good to see ya

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#70661 - 09/21/06 01:16 PM Re: Re; Jim McGreevy on Oprah
george of kent Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: delaware
Eddie,
I had a fairly low opinion of McGreevy, too, but he did seem to come off as authentic and self aware on the Oprah show. Coming out, no matter what the motive and the circumstances, does seem to have been a healing and healthy experience for him (and his new koala bear spouse sure is cute).
I have a renewed sense of how good it is for me to avoid judgmental thoughts; we each have a different path to walk and it's not for me throw stones. (Some people might say that I live in a glass house, did live there once upon a time).
I might even buy his new book! What do you think?
Hugs, etc.,

_________________________
"We are only two and yet our howling can encircle the world's end.
Frightened, you are my only friend.
And frightened we are, every one.
Someone must take a stand -- Coward, take my coward's hand"
Arthur Laurents

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#70662 - 09/21/06 03:38 PM Re: Re; Jim McGreevy on Oprah
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
eh he's a bum -

the fact that he is happy now is not the point to me -

i am glad he is healed -
but what a bum -
he's a lying politician who smeared the name of gays - publicly - by being such a butwad -

he should not have done this -

i don't care about his personal life - he is a public person - who screwed a lot of people over -
including the gay community in the US - since

these kind of fantastic distortions are the only thing the american public seems to hear about us -

- and fuel - the public - permissable whipping boy status of gay americans -

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#70663 - 09/21/06 10:20 PM Re: Re; Jim McGreevy on Oprah
watstobe Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 40
Loc: Jackson, NJ
George of kent, I feel as you do in that it is irrelevant to be judgmental, where does it lead to? Most of the time it fuels unnecessary anger. Besides who am I to stand in the seat of judgment for I am by far perfect. What I attempt to do is look at such a situation and try to see the benefit of it. For many years I lived my life as a victim of molestation and lived in fear and shame. The terror and disgrace were related to the fact I may be gay. Throughout the many years of the abuse my abuser convinced me of the fact I would grow up interested in only men; since he robbed me of so very much I was not about to let him win in this situation as well. Additionally there is the stigma that McGreevy spoke of associated with being gay. Looking at this scenario I chose to refrain from learning just who I was.

Rather than be destructive I chose a path that lead to being a work-a-holic. By keeping busy continuously I never had time to face my inner misgivings. At present I am no longer a victim of molestation but a Survivor. What I have yet to conquer is truly knowing who I really am. I continue to battle with whether my feelings are genuine of if they have been programmed by the individual who raped me all those years. I would like to reach the stage as McGreevy has and feel comfortable being who I am. I have yet to learn how to get there. This is where the whole issue of the McGreevy situation comes into play. He battled with serious demeans that lead him to make the wrong choices; it caused him, a gay man, live a life as a homophobic. He reached many significant goals but always felt within as a fraud. I don’t criticize him but actually feel for him. I realize he only reached this stage because he was forced to, and most likely would still be living a lie. From his story I do believe there will come others who will have the strength and fortitude to “come out,” and this is the blessing, the lesson learned. I am with you and will buy his book, which is blatantly honest.

Markgreyblue, thanks for your comments. Yes, Jim McGreevy had lead a public life and if you look at his record it will show he did do things that helped those who are gay live a better life. Yes, he also could have done a lot more! In essence he was a gay homophobe. You referred to him as a bum, and that is your right but I look at him as a person who finally is free. He struggled many years living a tale of many falsehoods. He is now free to be just who he really is. In coming out and sharing his story he is helping others to realize that being gay is not a sin, not a psychotic demented illness, but rather a different life compared to those who are heterosexual. To this day there remains severe homophobes, making coming out a very frightening thing to do. One must be totally prepared that their whole life as they know it will drastically change. This can be rather traumatic. I understand your feelings and thank you for sharing them with me. I ask that you take a step back and consider my thoughts as well. Thanks again!

_________________________
Eddie

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