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#70114 - 04/22/06 04:54 PM Re: abuse is or is not the cause???
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Blake,

Looking back over the posts, and especially at Howard's thoughtful account of how things look to him, perhaps the question isn't so much how you came to be gay. Being a straight guy, shouldn't I in the same way wonder if the aversion and loathing I have for my abuser "made me straight"? As I said above in this thread, I think this is to miss the huge difference between being gay and being abused, but I would still suggest that to ask the question ONLY with reference to being gay suggests that there is something wrong - or there could be something wrong - with being gay.

Isn't the real question one of what your way forward is in light of the fact that you ARE gay. How does that affect your view of relationships, friendship, connections with other people, your needs and aspirations in the world and so forth? In other words, Blake is gay; this is part of who he is. What parts of your life does that affect and in what ways, and what other parts don't have to be affected at all?

Maybe not being gay myself is muddling this up for me, but isn't the question one of how important your sexual orientation is, for YOU, rather than where the orientation came from?

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#70115 - 04/22/06 05:02 PM Re: abuse is or is not the cause???
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam,

I missed this when I read through the thread the first time and I thought I would comment:

Quote:
I dont think the abuse could make you gay unless it was enjoyable ,which i'm sure it was not.
The problem here is that sometimes the boy does feel pleasure at what is happening. We are, after all, sexual beings.

The man who abused me was a brutal sadist, but still, I know that when I was being abused I DID feel sexual pleasure and did have orgasms. That was one thing that made me feel so bad about myself. I could not keep myself from having erections and orgasms, and of course the abuser used that "evidence" to tell me "See, you do like it" and "You are in on this too". I felt so ashamed and confused. I couldn't figure out how I could feel so afraid and used and yet feel pleasure from what was being done to me.

I was too young, I guess, to go so far as to wonder whether this would make me gay, but that was 45 years ago. I bet a lot of younger guys worried about this.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#70116 - 04/23/06 09:30 AM Re: abuse is or is not the cause???
sophiesdad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 462
Loc: Florida
I'm not so sure that the question is all that simple. Psychologists have debated for years on the "cause" of sexual orientation and I don't think that anyone can really take a complex creature like a human being and make an answer that fits everyone.

I think that the sexual abuse only serves to muddy the whole issue even further. Let's face it - for most of us, the SA occurred at a time when we were very vulnerable and probably at stages of developing our sense of self which includes our sexual identities. I'm not so sure that the abuse would be the "cause" as much as it probably only served to make for more confusion and angst. Just my humble opinion \:\)

_________________________
There are no unresolved issues - they just didn't resolve themselves the way we would have liked. "Grinder and Bandler - Neuro-Linguistic Programming"

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#70117 - 04/23/06 11:52 AM Re: abuse is or is not the cause???
watstobe Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 40
Loc: Jackson, NJ
I agree with Larry 100%. I know throughout the years I forever felt guilty for having had sexual feelings during the time I was molestated. This would remain a serious problem for me that lasted years after. I felt this was clearly proof that I was gay, and that my abuser was absolutely correct when he drummed into me that I would grow up to be gay. It made such a dramatic impact that I buried myself in work. This avoided any chance of me discovering who I was. I now realize this was not true, and as Larry stated, "boys feel pleasure at what is happening. We are, after all, sexual beings."

Currently I am slowly recovering from 16 years of health issues. Should I recover completely I will no longer put life on hold but live life as I should have in the past...to the fullest!

Best Wishes to all!

_________________________
Eddie

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#70118 - 04/23/06 03:42 PM Re: abuse is or is not the cause???
Grunty1967b Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 826
Loc: Australia
No wonder this question came up, and ones like it often do.

Sexual abuse of children screws us up in every way possible including of course sex, our views on it, our orientation or preferences and our ability to enjoy it as a part of life.

It's one crappy deal. Good luck to us all!


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#70119 - 04/23/06 07:40 PM Re: abuse is or is not the cause???
johnsurvived Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/20/05
Posts: 332
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
Larry,

You've hit a great big nail right smack on the head. Yes, the fact that our bodies and minds responded to the stimulation with pleasurable physical, mental, and emotional responses is a big part of the bag of survivor issues I'm carrying around. I was taking sex as a need-filler at an early age -- before I was capable of distinguishing the 'good' things I was feeling from the 'bad'. On the good side was that I was getting attention that was making me feel good and better about myself while it was happening; on the bad side was that I couldn't tell anybody about it because it just couldn't be talked about. Two elements in tension that add up to a lot of shame, disgust and self-loathing.

John

_________________________
Take for us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the vineyards; for our vines have tender grapes. Song of Solomon 2:15

But let justice roll down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Amos 5:24

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