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#69973 - 03/17/06 06:51 PM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Timothy, Steven, George,

Can I put a slightly different spin on this? Timothy, right now you are an abused guy who is deeply confused sexually. Many of us have gone through that. Whatever your true sexual orientation is, it is so important to face it honestly and acknowledge it. It is part of who you ARE!

IF it turns out that you are not gay, but just confused by a poor sense of boundaries and so on, then fine. The problem you are worried about is solved, or at least identified as not being one connected with homosexuality.

IF it turns out you are gay, then also fine! There is nothing wrong with that. Robertson won't love you, that's for sure, but somehow I don't think you need his approval. The point is that God will not look down on you. In fact, He already knows the answers you are seeking and loves you the same as anyone else.

I think it's important that you get some OBJECTIVE input on gays and the Christian religion. Regardless of whether you are gay or not, you do have what you call "gay feelings". There must be literature for devout Christian men like you, I just don't know what it would be or where you would look. A gay rights center where you live? A group for gay Christian men? I bet a google search would turn up something. Maybe the gay guys on this site would have some ideas.

Just beware, beware, beware, of anyone who tries to tell you that you have to believe what HE says about religion, otherwise you are a sinner, polluted, doomed to hellfire, or whatever. Forget the quotes from the Bible in this rubbish. Quotations can be twisted around to "prove" anything.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#69974 - 03/17/06 07:59 PM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
TX_Space Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 163
Loc: Texas
Timothy--
I am so sorry for your struggles. But, I admire your religious convictions. Don't ever lose sight of God. He is the answer and His love alone is all you need. Having said that, I understand the feelings you are having and the trouble in reconciling them with the teachings of the Church. It adds another layer to the confusion and the self-loathing. Sometimes, religions do confuse the issues and the bad leaders twist God's words to suit their purposes. But, a good leader will use God's teachings to guide us to His will. My priest(s) have been so helpful in helping me see that no matter what I do, God is there to embrace me because He loves me beyond all things. The embrace of another human will never compare...don't ever let that blind you. It is good to have human companionship and it is necessary to have it. God made us for that purpose but don't ever let anyone convince you that human acceptance is more powerful than God's.

I know He loves me. He gives me family and friends who care for me and love me too. Trust that He does the same for you. If you are gay, rejoice in the fact that you are God's creation and He knew your destiny before you were conceived. Don't listen to your father or bad leaders or church hypocrites or secular hypocrites...listen to God because He alone speaks to your mind, heart and soul. He speaks the truth. There you will find the peace you need.

Here is my prayer for you. A promise to you, Timothy from John 14:27. Peace I leave with you, my peace I give you; not as the world gives, do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

God Bless You.
Tx_space


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#69975 - 03/18/06 01:35 PM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
george of kent Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: delaware
Dear Larry -- the voice of sanity, as usual.
This is a very therapeutic thread for me.
Tim, I think there must be some literature out there such as Larry has described; I just don't know what or where it might be.
If anyone has any specific suggestions or recommendations, I'd love to hear about it.
Meanwhile, Happy St. Jospeh's Day tomorrow.
Love, etc.

_________________________
"We are only two and yet our howling can encircle the world's end.
Frightened, you are my only friend.
And frightened we are, every one.
Someone must take a stand -- Coward, take my coward's hand"
Arthur Laurents

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#69976 - 03/18/06 07:15 PM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I was thinking about all this again on my way from Hamburg to London earlier today.

I know that a devout gay man will be concerned about what his religion says about homosexuality. But here is another way to look at that. In reality the Bible says very little about this question; it is NOT a major concern in>
_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#69977 - 03/18/06 11:42 PM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
pbfurm Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 25
Loc: Los Angeles
As a jew I have never felt ostracized by my religion. I have grown less religious and more spiritual as the years blur by. I acknowledge that one can be brainwashed by evil people. Try and separate the hype from your heart.


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#69978 - 03/19/06 01:24 PM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
pbfurm,

When I was in grad school one of my best friends, and a housemate of mine, was a Jewish gay guy who was just coming out. It was rough for him that year, and he felt that I had been of some help to him (most of his straight friends ran for cover once they knew he was gay).

The story gets complicated, but anyway, at the end of the year he wanted to say thanks by showing me "his" New York. His gay friends welcomed me, teased me, made awful and embarrassing jokes, and I don't think I ever laughed or learned so much in 12 hours in all my life!

One thing he did was take me to his gay synagogue. I asked him what could be gay about a synagogue (or a church for that matter), and he replied that at this synagogue he could be absolutely himself and relate to God on his own terms, not someone else's.

There's the ideal, I guess. God already knows who we are, whatever our religion. What is the point of trying to relate to him on any other terms?

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#69979 - 03/19/06 03:02 PM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
johnsurvived Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/20/05
Posts: 332
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
Hello Timothy,

I'm sorry to jump into this thread so late, but I have been following it with interest and have seen others post many of the thoughts and feelings of which I would have written. I cannot tell from what you have written whether you are gay or not, and I can only reiterate what's already been said on that subject: many abused men suffer great doubt about their sexuality and have trouble setting appropriate boundaries in intimate relationships. Whether you are or not is probably less an issue than dealing with your feelings, your behavior and your experience. A good therapist will help with all that, and I do hope you'll find one soon.

That said, and since this is in the "Gay Survivors" forum and not the "Sexual Identity Issues" forum, I'd also like to reiterate another thing some others have already said: there ain't a damn thing bad, wrong or sinful about being gay. It's just that simple. And regardless of whether you're gay or straight or somewhere in between, you seem to have the (unfortunately common) misconception that Christianity universally condemns homosexuality. That's just not true. It has been pointed out to me, for instance, that while Jesus spoke frequently of straight people, he never once mentioned the gay folks. Nowhere in the entire New Testament will you read a quote from Jesus on the subject one way or the other.

Following are some books you might enjoy reading that deal with homosexuality, religion and history:

What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality by Daniel A. Helminiak, available at http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1886360...5Fencoding=UTF8

The Sins of Scripture : Exposing the Bible's Texts of Hate to Reveal the God of Love by John Shelby Spong, available at http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060762...5Fencoding=UTF8

Homosexuality and Civilization by Louis Crompton, available at http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0674011...glance&n=283155

I think you might enjoy knowing that there are other modern voices commenting on these ancient texts, and finding different meanings in them.

May you find peace as you walk your path.

John

_________________________
Take for us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the vineyards; for our vines have tender grapes. Song of Solomon 2:15

But let justice roll down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Amos 5:24

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#69980 - 03/20/06 07:55 AM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
blaidd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 240
Loc: Australia
I would like to applaud loudly in regard to John's post. Thankyou.

I can highly reccommend "What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality by Daniel A. Helminiak"

regards,

Stuart

_________________________
Blaidd (pronounced as blaith/blithe) is a welsh word meaning wolf.

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#69981 - 03/20/06 10:46 AM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
Timothy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 23
Loc: Middle Earth
Hey guys,

Thank you all for writing!! I really don't know what to say but I have read each and every post and I thank you all!

Thank you for all the sharing.

The other night I did something really foolish. I was so "mad" at myself for having gay feelings that I took out a pair of boots from my closet and put one boot onto my hand (like how you would wear a glove).

And then I started using the boot to repeatedly hit myself in the groin, using all the strength I could muster.

As you can imagine, my genitals were very bruised and swollen after what I did, but I wish that it had been more painful. I told myself that it was right punishment for me for having gay feelings and that I deserved to be hurt like that anyway.

What kind of guy would do something so dumb as to what I did, except that I am trying to feel so hurt & painful that I can forget about having gay feelings.

Sometimes when I start to feel attracted to another man I see on the street, I rush into the nearest restroom and literally use my fist to hammer my groin, hoping that the pain will cause the desires to fade away.

I feel so awful that I caused a married man (my sergeant) to be attracted to me in the first place, and then causing him to ejaculate his semen unto my body, something which rightfully belongs to his wife. If I were his wife I would hate me too.

My sergeant cared a lot about me and the only times he got angry was when I asked him why he was doing "those things " to me. So after a while, I stopped asking him.

But his touches made me feel dirty and frightened, and I hated the way he forced his tongue into my mouth when we were alone in the barracks. He made me feel like a dog when he used me and made me ejaculate into his filthy, greedy mouth. I hated him for hugging my naked body against his own naked flesh. The filth, the shame, the agony!

Timothy


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#69982 - 03/20/06 05:43 PM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Timothy,

I hope you will take up the opportunity to do some broader reading on this subject, along the lines that JohnSurvived suggests, and also consult a therapist.

The bottom line is that no one deserves harm for the way they feel sexually. Certainly no one deserves it from himself.

What you say about your sexual activities with your sergeant can be addressed by looking at only one sentence:

Quote:
I feel so awful that I caused a married man (my sergeant) to be attracted to me in the first place
You didn't "cause" anything Timothy. He felt an attraction to you and acted on it from a position of power to exploit a young recruit sexually. That's abuse and not your fault. Please try to remember that.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
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