Newest Members
jeremywickers, JScott12, TMatti2, DaiseyLady, uvagrad4
12501 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
innocence (60), pablo999 (53)
Who's Online
2 registered (2 invisible), 19 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12501 Members
74 Forums
64184 Topics
447886 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#69953 - 03/09/06 09:02 AM I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
Timothy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 23
Loc: Middle Earth
I am a 27 years old guy who struggles very badly with gay feelings and emotions. Most of my friends don't know that I have this as I appear very "straight" in front of them and usually joke about girls, even though I've never dated a girl before.

I get turned my by other men, which torments me greatly. I feel like a second-class guy for having such bad thoughts and feelings. Sometimes I toy with the idea of killing myself just to end this pain and misery.

Of course, I don't really want to die; I just want to stop my gay feelings and tendencies.

No need to reply to this; this isn't a call for help but merely my venting of my frustrations.

Thanks!!

Timothy


Top
#69954 - 03/09/06 09:26 AM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Timothy,

Wow. What you are describing is not what I would consider to be abnormal for the majority of men who use the MS discussion board.

One thing, my friend, You are definitely a valueable person. You are worth loving. Please value yourself and hang in there because you are worth it.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

Top
#69955 - 03/09/06 12:51 PM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Timothy,

I see two related issues in what you are talking about: the effects of abuse when you were a kid and confusion over your sexual identity now as an adult. You are feeling a lot of shame and guilt over these, but I hope you will see that this is entirely unnecessary.

I think we have to remember that it is in our childhood that the foundations for our thinking on our sexuality are laid down. Abuse wrecks all that by linking sex with feelings of shame, guilt, fear, worthlessness, powerlessness and so on. Those feelings and associations stay with us, at least under the surface, when we become adults. John gives a good example of the results above, and I think these feelings are very common among survivors. We really have to WORK at establishing for ourselves a healthy attitude towards sex and sexual boundaries.

No wonder we suffer from a lot of sexual confusion, and that I think is the second issue you are facing. Many boys agonize over this: I'm not sexy, I'm not cool, I'm not "big enough", I'm still a virgin, blah blah blah. I also think that many abused boys fear that being abused will make them gay, or else, if the boy IS gay, he wonders did abuse make him like that.

As men, again a lot of this continues in various forms. We have memories that make us feel guilty, for example if we got an erection or achieved orgasm during abuse episodes. But all that, regardless of the crap the abusers tell us, was just a boy's body responding to stimulation. We also wonder why didn't we say no, why didn't we try to escape, etc., but there we are projecting options we see now, as adults, back into our childhood. A kid just doesn't SEE these options.

As adults we also sometimes feel tempted to respond to memories of abuse by re-enacting it. We do that to fight against the feeling that we were powerless and defenseless; we figure that somehow it will help if we "act out" the thing all over again, but on our own terms. We feel it will help us because now WE are in control.

All of this has nothing to do with being gay, however. Abuse is a crime committed against a defenseless innocent child against his will. Being gay is part of who a boy or man is; it's part of his personality and identity and he doesn't "choose" it. Abuse and "gayness" may share common ground in same-sex sexual acts, but that is hardly a reason to link them. That would be like saying that apples and bird nests are both fruits because we find both in the same tree.

What really concerns me about your post, Timothy, is the spot where you say this:

Quote:
I feel like a second-class guy for having such bad thoughts and feelings. Sometimes I toy with the idea of killing myself just to end this pain and misery.
If this is how you feel it's good to let it out. Just say it, then you have something that's no longer a terrible secret. You can look at it and work on it.

On the other hand, you should also know that all these feelings may have nothing to do with being gay. Working on your SA issues with a T may reveal that to be the case.

But what if you ARE gay? There is nothing wrong with that. We are of course bombarded all the time with messages suggesting that it's a terrible thing to be a "queer", a "fag", and so on. But that's just the message of a traditional old morality that wasn't even followed in its own time. Certainly there is no place for prejudice against gays in modern society. A gay man doesn't choose his sexuality, and even if he did, he is no more a threat to society than a "straight" guy is. He is every bit as worthy of love, admiration and respect as anyone else. It IS more difficult for him to seek and find happiness and fulfillment, because society is still so generally negative, but the alternative, denying an essential aspect of his identity, is very harmful so far as I can see.

You are not less of a man if you are gay, or for that matter if you have been abused. A "real man" is a guy to sets his ethical, moral, and social boundaries based on a clear sense of what is right and wrong, and then sticks to them regardless of the challenges and temptations.

But I think worrying about this is premature. I would take John's comments to heart. Working on the SA issues may itself resolve the problem of sexual confusion.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#69956 - 03/09/06 03:59 PM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
george of kent Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: delaware
Whoa, Timothy!
Take several deep breaths, then re-read the comments above, especially Larry's.
A certain percentage (5% or so?) of human males are nowadays and almost certainly always have been primarily attracted sexually to other men. In my opinion, there is no choice to being gay or straight. Our choices come in the behaviors we choose to act on our given orientation. Moral, ethical, caring behaviors are just as prevalent in the world of gay sex as anywhere else.
American culture has been very slow to "grow up" around the issue of homosexuality; don't be too quick to buy into their stupidity.
For Timothy, I would suggest that this is a time to take things slowly and one step at a time.
And don't forget that you have a lot of friends here. Keep comin' back.
Love, etc.,

_________________________
"We are only two and yet our howling can encircle the world's end.
Frightened, you are my only friend.
And frightened we are, every one.
Someone must take a stand -- Coward, take my coward's hand"
Arthur Laurents

Top
#69957 - 03/09/06 05:56 PM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Timothy,

A comment of George's above banged on my cage \:\) :

Quote:
American culture has been very slow to "grow up" around the issue of homosexuality
To see the truth of this, peg it over to Europe one day. In the countries I know best (Germany, France, Netherlands and Italy) gays and lesbians are accepted and there just ISN'T a big fuss over their right to BE who they are. I have openly gay students, for example, and they are 100% accepted by the other students. Cultural venues regularly hold gay celebrations so that the community will have a great place to come and party together.

That's not to say there isn't opposition to homosexuality at all. It's just that people here are less ready to claim that their personal views allow them to impose these views on others.

But of course this thread isn't about being gay, as such. It's about your anxieties on the matter, and the possibility that all this just comes down to issues relating to your abuse. That said, I think it's good to remind ourselves that no one ought to be afraid to be HIMSELF. Unless we are willing to do that, how can we ever hope to be happy?

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#69958 - 03/12/06 12:46 AM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
watstobe Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 40
Loc: Jackson, NJ
First I must applaud Larry and “George” for their words of wisdom. I was so stunned at the accuracy of what they wrote that my eyes filled up with tears. They wrote so eloquently and right to the point that I was touched by their thoughts and words of wisdom!

Timothy, I do know exactly how you feel for I have been
“in your shoes,” and have felt your pain; I have experienced the exact same feelings and emotions. There was a time I too “toyed” with ideas of suicide for I so desperately wanted the feeling of being gay to just go away. I often thought, “Why can’t I be like the “average” guy and look at chicks as they do?” Why couldn’t I feel the way “most” guys feel and desire a woman as most men do? It would always revert back to the sexual abuse I endured over 5 or more years when I was just a child.

During the time I was molested my abuser would constantly drill me as to when I grew up all I would want and desire would be men. He told me (as I grew older and began to ask questions) only “special” boys get to feel this way. In the meantime I had such problems dealing with the fact I really was abused for I had an erection or ended up having a orgasm, (as Larry indicated above, this apparently is a common response, a NORMAL reaction) . To me this only was an indication that I was a “queer.” Growing up I was often haunted with being called a fag or queer by my own father, who felt it was a way to toughen up his boy. I had to not only pretend to be straight but act real manly as well. This meant I could not have any emotion, and I dare not cry “for only sissy boys cried.“ Day to day life just was too difficult to bare.

When I became older I tried to break free of all the abuse but ended up doing as Larry said, I followed a destructive path…. a self fulfilling prophecy. I reverted back to the molestation days and acted out making sex this horrible thing that was only performed in dark, dingy rooms where no one knew your name. After a few experiences I knew this was not who I was and therefore I delved into work, by keeping myself constantly busy I had no time to question who I was or to act out on occasional feelings. Work became everything to me. When I found time I even entered a spa to work out an hour each day before work, but this lasted only 6 months for I felt out of place with the guys in the locker room.

Timothy, I am now 42 years old and only now am I realizing how much time I wasted. Life is so very short. May I suggest to you as Larry and George did above, take the fist step and see a Therapist, one who is experienced in sexual abuse. It will be the beginning of a long journey, however you will feel so much at peace with yourself once you have traveled down that road! It will take work and commitment on your part but the rich reward is that you will have worked through all the demons that haunt you.

If you ever want to talk Timothy please feel free to contact me and I would be more than willing to share my phone number or email address with you.

Brighter days lye ahead, may you find peace within your soul and love that runs deep.
Ciao friend,

_________________________
Eddie

Top
#69959 - 03/12/06 02:18 AM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Timothy, Eddie,

This is one that really needs to be stressed. I quote Eddie:

Quote:
In the meantime I had such problems dealing with the fact I really was abused for I had an erection or ended up having a orgasm, (as Larry indicated above, this apparently is a common response, a NORMAL reaction).
Yes, absolutely. We are all sexual beings, and a young boy is subject to stimulation and arousal even at the most unlikely and unwanted moments. Remember all the times you got an erection just as you had to stand up and walk to another class in school?

A boy being abused cannot keep his body from responding to sexual stimulation. He will probably get an erection, and if he is sexually mature he will probably ejaculate if stimulated long enough. He may also like the feelings of sexual arousal and orgasm.

But this is a physical response and has nothing to do with "liking" the abuse or cooperating with it. Abusers will often play on the boy's physical response to confuse or shame him: "See, you like it." But the fact of the matter is that the boy is not a willing and equal partner; he is a defenseless child being victimized for the sake of someone else's gratification.

There are several useful comments on this on the MS site:

For adults, see http://www.malesurvivor.org/myths.htm, myth no. 3.
Teens should also look at http://www.malesurvivor.org/Survivors/Adolescent%20Survivors/Articles/bsnl.htm#f

Bottom line: “You liked it” is one of the abuser’s cruellest lies. Within the context of this thread, like so much else it has not the slightest thing to do with whether or not the boy is or will be gay.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#69960 - 03/13/06 11:07 AM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
Timothy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 23
Loc: Middle Earth
Dear friends,

First of all, thank you all for taking the time and effort to write to me. I really don't deserve your kindness. I feel terribly unworthy of it all.

I am a rascal because I always have impure thoughts when I see an attractive guy. And because of my religious beliefs (I am traditional Roman Catholic), it torments me tremendously. I know it is very sinful to have such thoughts and feelings and I go to Confession very often to get rid of the guilt caused by these feelings and desires.

My "gay feelings" actually came before I was sexually abused. In fact, they led to my being abused.

When my army sergeant first started touching me in a bad way, it felt nice because no one has ever touched me in that way before, especially not my dad. When he started touching my private parts, it felt exciting and I didn't stop him. So he continued something that I should have stopped in the first place.

And even though he wasn't physically attractive to me, he once made me ejaculate into his mouth, and I wanted to do it even though it was very uncomfortable to me, because I didn't want him to think of me as "less than a man" if I couldn't ejaculate like other guys.

I first started being close to this sergeant because he would always listen to my problems, and he always seemed to have time for me, something which was unlike what I got from my dad. I trusted him with more and more and as time went on, I dropped hints to him that I was attracted to guys.

Then one Sunday afternoon, he asked to come over to my house. At first, it was just to listen to music. He lay on my bed next to me. Then he put his arms around me. It felt good because it felt like someone cared about me.

Then he started to stroke my arms. My eyes were closed and I didn't pay much attention to him. Then he started to stroke other parts of my body, and at the same time, his hands went lower and lower until he reached under my shorts to stroke my private parts. I gasped in fear and excitement but didn't stop him.

Funny thing was, he apologised to me for what he did as I was walking with him to the train station after that incident, about an hour later. I told him that it was okay and that I wasn't angry. Pretty dumb of me, huh?

So he continued touching me whenever he was alone with me. I didn't stop him because it felt nice and exciting and also because I wanted to be touched by another man.

So you see, my sexual abuse was caused by my "gay feelings" and I am mostly to be blamed for it.

I do so wish, as Wats_to_be said, that I would desire a woman so other guys do.

The abuse happened before I became a Roman Catholic. Now, my desire is to live a pure and chaste life, knowing that I'll probably never marry. But it is hard, and sometimes I wonder if my friends suspect that I have gay feelings but are too polite to ask me.


Thank you all again for listening. I never knew I could find such good friends here.

God bless!!

Timothy


Top
#69961 - 03/13/06 12:28 PM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
watstobe Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 40
Loc: Jackson, NJ
Timothy;

Wow, I truly feel for you friend. First of all YOU ARE WORTHY and that is what this forum presents to all of us who are survivors!

I, too, am a Roman Catholic and have really had a hard time dealing with my sexual feelings and being damned for having such emotions. I worked with a therapist who I found from my local church. He was really very helpful in helping me understand that God would never "condemn" us for having natural feelings. He helped me realize this was only man made rules and ideations that are drummed into and cause us to fear. So, as far as being Catholic, I don't believe there is anything for you to fear. God is a loving entity that will love us for being kind, caring and compassionate individuals willing to help others in time of need. I personally believe at time of judgment God will be looking at my attributes rather than my sexuality.

I am troubled by your words:

"My "gay feelings" actually came before I was sexually abused. In fact, they led to my being abused.

Sorry friend but this is not the case! In NO WAY did any feelings you had be the “cause” of the abuse. Here is where you need to change your way of thinking. I say this for I too felt the same way for many years. I have always wondered whether my feelings toward men came before or after the abusive years? It troubled me a great deal to think I had such feelings before my abuse and I even believed for far too long that it was such thoughts that enticed my abuser. NO NO NO, the abuse I endured had nothing to do with anything I may or may not have felt. The abuse I endured over the 5 or more years was due to a control issue and a sense of rage my molester had for the fact I could hear and he could not. So, it had absolutely nothing to do with any feelings I could have had. I was curious to know how old you were when the sexual encounter first occurred? You see your abuser was older and should have known that if you were a child you were too young to really know how you actually felt. To have crossed the boundaries and ever touched you in any sexual way was when he went from being your "sergeant" to your abuser. It doesn't matter what you think you may have wanted/desired men, that is irrelevant.

During my teenage years I had a priest fondle me as my mother cooked dinner only feet away. I had a guidance counselor make passes at me and do it in a subtle way so that I questioned myself. Was I actually looking for or sending off vibes for these men. The truth is it had nothing to do with me, I was innocent. These guys were trying to play on my innocence for their own gratifications.

I had a very hard time (and still do) with the fact I had any sexual feelings and especially that I seemed to enjoy the time with my abuser as the years went on. I battle with the fact that I reached an orgasmic state and this has made me feel so dirty inside. It carried throughout my life so much so I can never ejaculate with any one I have had sexual encounters with. When it happened once the horror of feeling so dirty came shinning through and I nearly committed suicide. It is by the grace of God that I lived! What I am trying to come to grips with is the fact it was only normal that I had such feelings and experienced what I did. I haven't completely reached this stage but I have shared my feelings here and the responses have helped me to realize I had only a normal response for someone who was stimulating a young boy’s body the way my abuser did.

The apology you received when you both walked to the train meant nothing! Depending on your age this guy knew he was manipulating you and making you feel responsible for his actions and it worked. It was not your fault for him taking advantage of you, whether you had feelings toward guys or gals!

You stated:

The abuse happened before I became a Roman Catholic. Now, my desire is to live a pure and chaste life,

I know for so many years I used my religion as a way to avoid living a normal life. You can suppress your feelings for just so long, therefore it is not important that the abuse occurred before during or after you became a Catholic. What is important is knowing there is nothing wrong with you being who you are...YOU! Regarding living a “chaste life” that is all up to you. What you must understand is that living a life being true to who you are is living a “pure” life. As I mentioned above, God will be looking at how you lived your life as far as caring for your fellow brother or sister before he will judge you on your sexuality. God loves us and is proud when we follow in his path of being good and kind.

Please know I am here if you ever wish to talk. I know I have learned a great deal from all those who share their stories here. Best wishes to you dear friend!

God bless you as well!!

_________________________
Eddie

Top
#69962 - 03/13/06 03:33 PM Re: I Hate Myself For Having Gay Feelings
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Timothy,

There is so much to talk about in your post, beginning with what Eddie raises with you. He is so right on that one. A boy or young man who is gay is not an abuse magnet, though you may feel that that's the case.

You are showing a lot of self-esteem issues bro; you consider yourself to be a rascal, unworthy of kindness, responsible for your own abuse, sinful, impure, dumb, and so on. Don't get me wrong here! I don't blame you for that at all. I would just like you to see that these are typical feelings that many survivors have because of what happened to them as boys.

When a boy or young man is abused he quickly comes to see the abuse as his fault; he figures this shows how worthless he is. That of course makes it easier for him to allow things to continue, and he may also be grateful for anyone's attention, including that of the abuser, because he feels that otherwise no one at all would care about him. It gets to be a vicious circle, it really does!

My point here is that all these feelings you have ARE there; this IS how you feel, so you have to acknowledge this and work on these feelings. BUT...that doesn't mean that you should accept that the feelings are accurate. So often they are not. We have to be careful about this one, otherwise these feelings we have that arose when we were being abused will drag us all over the place, and usually to places we don't want to go.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >


Moderator:  ModTeam 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.