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#69391 - 11/23/05 10:39 PM Shame
sonlite Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 100
Loc: North Carolina
[trigger warning]
*****
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1. Was at a drug store to buy enema's today bc I've read that if you're gonna do the gay sex thing, then this is important.

2. Heart pounding, couldn't find them on the shelf and then when found them went to back of store to pay for them and some woman walked up behind me in line. All of a sudden I felt emmense, smothering shame as if every camera in America was looking at me and that just as happened in grade school I was being encircled and laughed at and shoved around and called "faggot" even though back at that time, I scarcely knew the meaning of the word. I just put my head down, got out of the line, put my things back on the shelf, and walked out of the store.

3. Shame, and now Anger at self for being Ashamed.

4. I had big plans tonight to go try a more techno-upbeat gay dance club and let go and enjoy myself dancing freely and experience myself more in that way. Now I just want to hole up in my room and hide under the covers. Maybe a hot bath and a nap will help. I miss my ex-girlfriend so much I could cry. I'll get through this, I always do.


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#69392 - 11/23/05 11:31 PM Re: Shame
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
John,

I want to be honest with you, but I have to say up front what I have said before, and that is that I am not a gay man so this is an outsider's perspective.

Could I suggest that you give some thought to the possibility that you are trying to move too fast? What you were doing in the pharmacy was perfectly okay, yet you put your things back on the shelf and left. In terms of recovery you also seem to be really fragile bro.

Other gay brothers here will probably tell you that full anal sex isn't a rite of passage; some gay men are into that and others not at all. One of my gay friends tells me he has never done that in all his life, and so far as I can see he is in a happy fulfilling relationship. It seems to me that if you are going to pursue a gay lifestyle and identity you should be thinking in terms broader than specific sexual acts.

There is also the matter of shame. What is that? Shame is our REACTION to the whole range of unwanted and unpleasant things that were forced upon us when we were abused. I have worked really hard on a lot of issues, but I think I am still as ashamed as I ever was. I wonder if that's because the shame, being my verdict on the whole picture of my abuse, will be the last piece of junk I get rid of. When I think of it that way I don't feel so bad about not being able to budge that monster yet.

Overall John, I would just ask why not slow down a bit and not take so many emotional risks? Ease your way into things and try to appreciate how complex and multi-faceted they are - both in your approach to gay identity and in the course of your recovery.

I hope I don't sound negative here, because that is not how I mean it. I wish you all the very best - it just seems you are on a narrow twisting road at 90 mph. ;\) You don't need to hurry, and seeing how you get there may be just as important as your goal.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#69393 - 11/24/05 05:03 AM Re: Shame
sonlite Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 100
Loc: North Carolina
Larry - thanks for your reply, I was not at all offended ...

1. Yep, I am moving too fast. And when a part of me gets too far ahead of the rest of me, then I have a fail-safe which engages and shuts me down and then I find myself putting things back on the shelf (literally and figuratively).

2. Working through a "stuck phase"

a) [Really] Attracted to anal sex (receiver of)
b) Working in my spiritual life to accept myself and God AND sexuality all in the same 'space' (w/out shame).
c) Wanting to be 'true' to accepting and exploring my desires (w/out shame) and to "prove" I can be out there in-the-game experientially finding my own "salvation".
d) I really DO enjoy dancing provacatively to the gay techno-dance music. I really DO enjoy the fem-like dramatic way of talking. I really DO wake up most mornings w/ fantasies about gay sex.
e) ... All the while knowing that I am way more attracted to women and that I am more attracted to sex acts w/ a man than to a relationship w/ a man ... although if the 1 in a million "right man" came along and I felt "chemistry" I would be willing to try and engage my heart in addition to my body.

3. My (over-thinking) Intellect understands I am in part seeking to re-enact anal sex to give myself control over an event(s) in which I had no control. And that a part of me thinks this will be cathartic and my own personal rite-of-passage to make my own choice about anal sex and to lay back and enjoy it vs. being held down against my will and forced to take it. My intellect tells me that I am doing the exploring that I was denied when I was an adolescent and a young adult, bc all sexuality was completely shame-connected by my parents.

Also, there were times when I was sexual w/ my ex-girlfriend that I wondered what it must feel like for her, to feel me inside of her, for her to get so much pleasure.
"yes, I am in therapy".

4. In the end, my fail-safe engaged tonight and I did take a hot bath and a nap and then went out to dinner, by myself.

5. Most often when I fantasize I end up saying out loud "I want Love. I want Beautiful. I want a Family" (as in a tall, beautiful wife, w/ a smile that touches my heart).

6. At the end of the day I have to trust myself and my inner voice. I am working on accepting myself in-the-present-moment. That self acceptance is much more an issue than the sexuality part.


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#69394 - 11/26/05 06:04 PM Re: Shame
george of kent Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: delaware
Whoa!
This gay man says "ditto" to straight advice (in every sense of the word) from Larry. Your head is overdrive, while your heart is dragging behind, trying to put the brakes on. Your gut (instinct) seems to be all over the place. Gay? Straight? What to be receptive to anal sex? Want a "tall, beautiful wife"?. Your wants seem to me to be somewhat mutually exclusive, but that's where I'm at, too, some of the time. Until this all gets a bit more sorted out in inside your body/mind/spirit, I'd suggest that you try to take it more "one step at a time." Try to be patient with yourself. And I believe that a long, hot shower and a nap can never be a bad idea for any of us.
Love, etc.,

_________________________
"We are only two and yet our howling can encircle the world's end.
Frightened, you are my only friend.
And frightened we are, every one.
Someone must take a stand -- Coward, take my coward's hand"
Arthur Laurents

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#69395 - 11/26/05 06:13 PM Re: Shame
george of kent Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: delaware
excuse the typo above: "what to be receptive" should have been "want to be receptive." And, I didn't mention the possibility of true bisexuality. That's a label that doesn't stick to gay little ol' me, though I have been married and am the father of three, but I'm sure that some of us MS guys do split the Kinsey scale right down the middle. More than ever, I think my counsel to you right now would be something like "Easy, baby, you're on the right track." (with apologies to Stephen Schwartz). Nice and easy, one step at a time.
Love, etc.
p.s. and there are lots of places (in the big city at least) to meet nice guys other than the bars and dance clubs. I met my partner of 26 years in church.

_________________________
"We are only two and yet our howling can encircle the world's end.
Frightened, you are my only friend.
And frightened we are, every one.
Someone must take a stand -- Coward, take my coward's hand"
Arthur Laurents

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#69396 - 11/27/05 01:54 AM Re: Shame
sonlite Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 100
Loc: North Carolina
Thank You Sooo Much George of Kent -

1. I found a link which sums up where I am right now which talks about a sort of delayed adolescence in regards to beginning to recognize same-sex desires in adulthood (I am 41y).

http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/articles/glb/gayadols.html

2. It may seem like I am rocketing out of control but that is bc most of my "experiementing" is primarly done thru writing here on MS. Yes, I have attended gay nite at a local coffee shop and been to the GLBT Community Center, and been to lectures and movies, a gay church, and to a few gay bars/dance clubs. I work out at the "Y" and get oogled pretty often and despite all of this being in the presence of gayness ... it takes a huge amount of nerve for me to even talk to gay guys at these events. Case in Point, last nite I went to the biggest gay techno-dance club in my city and while I hung around by a platform and danced by myself for a while, I didn't feel like I was ready or wanting to make a personal (or sexual) connection and so I left and considered the experience a success for being there and knowing myself, w/in the experience.

3. And so I am working past the fear to really meet a nice, attractive guy and have a real, normal date and possibly open my heart up to another man. I have had one (safe) sexual experience in this phase. And so I have figured out that my body may respond ... but since I was abused by a "trusted" priest, the issues of trust are quite formidable for me to allow my heart to feel emotionally safe in a healthy relationship w/ a man. I am not out there putting my health or my emotions at risk. But I am in ways trying to be mindful about, "stepping outside the box" and experience what getting close to a man might be like.

4. For today I would pretty much consider myself BiSexual. The Kinsey scale you speak of goes from 0-6 and I would place myself at about a 1.5 or a 2 in that I am mostly hetero. Figuring out the Bi part in the context of my dissociated "parts" is what I am trying to negotiate. Inner Peace is my overall goal.

5. In other news I dropped a hint to my mom about this issue and she was at first very quiet and unsupportive (I shouldn't care at age 41 but it still hurt some) then I called a few days later and expressed the reason I had not been home to visit in so long was my ambivalence about this issue w/in my family. And why would I choose to come home if I were not going be accepted. The next day I got a call from my sister to tell me that my mom had decided to front my air-fare for me to come home for the holidays and later when I talked w/ my mom she was much more supportive and happy that I would be coming home for Christmas.

6. My mind is indeed in overdrive, but I still swim and run and meditate and try to just ACCEPT, ACCEPT, ACCEPT whatever I am feeling or desiring w/out making judgments on myself.

*** I ran eight miles today which is the longest I've ever run w/out stopping!! I am training for an upcoming 10k.

I add this trival note to point out that I am not 100% focused on the figuring out (my)sexuality. I am highly-focused to be sure, but I am working at creating, enjoying, and "doing Life" in other ways too.

Once Again thank you for your reply George of Kent. I know I write volumes, but it helps to know someone is out there listening.


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#69397 - 11/27/05 03:13 PM Re: Shame
george of kent Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: delaware
It sure does take "a lot of nerve" to just put yourself out there. I used to get high anxiety "shakes" so bad that you might have thought I had just spent twelve hours in the freezer. And I'd agree that your experience at the gay-techno-dance club was a success. If, in fact, you are a Kinsey 1.5 or 2, that will picked up somehow, ??good vibrations??, by your typical Kinsey 5 - 6 horny, young gay guy, and may keep some men from approaching you; also, what is the average age at this kind of club?
I'm not trying to be negative here, and it sounds to me like your experience was mostly positive. Even more positive for your self esteem, maybe, was broaching the subject with your family. I really admire your analysis of what's going on for you. Gay or straight or truly bi, you have a healthy, happy future ahead of you according to my crystal ball. Just remember, don't take it too fast. Give yourself plenty of time to absorb new information/feelings; and keep us posted here. We are indeed listening to your tale.
Love, etc.,

_________________________
"We are only two and yet our howling can encircle the world's end.
Frightened, you are my only friend.
And frightened we are, every one.
Someone must take a stand -- Coward, take my coward's hand"
Arthur Laurents

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#69398 - 11/30/05 06:13 AM Re: Shame
vhd11 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 115
Loc: NY
Lables?!!! Kinsey Scales?!!!

Follow your heart!
Your passions-whether running, dancing freely, or walking solo or with someone hand in hand. Your Life, Your Relationships are YOURS to define or not!


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