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#69312 - 10/31/05 12:37 AM Ok, Now What
sonlite Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 100
Loc: North Carolina
Me Again searching for more comments and advice from the gay/bi guys here.

1. I have accepted to myself that I am Bi. It happened this morning w/out any fanfare or big emotions. I just accepted what I already knew. I started the day by meeting straight folks in a social/activity group I'm a member of, before the football game. But I didn't want to spend the $$$ on a scalped ticket and so I let the straight folks go on ahead w/out me to the game - plus I had other plans ...

2. I walked to a Gay bar today to watch the football game on tv. I had a GREAT time. I sat and talked w/ two guys who were a couple, one of whom it was his birthday. And we just basically talked and it was just normal, sitting at a bar watching a game kind of stuff [no, I didn't get drunk].

3. After the game, the GLBT and straight crowd started pouring into the bar and the bar started up the music. My "Fabulous" part came out and I just started swaying and bouncing and dancing, I danced some w/ straight women, and while some guys tried to dance w/ me - I guess I just wasn't ready for that today. Then I sat outside the bar and talked w/ a lesbian couple. I was at peace w/ my life as I said goodbye to my new gay friends w/out exchanging phone numbers or anything.

4. Then I went to another place and ran into the straight folks again ... only this time my "Fabulous" part was still dancing and bouncing to the music and I didn't care if I "looked gay" or not to the straight folks ... I was into the music and having my own party inside. One woman asked where I was and I named the bar where I went and kept right on talking w/out making an issue of it and actually I think another one of the women might have been interested in my dancing and "Fabulousness" bc all of the other guys in the straight group, were just sitting like bumps on a log, and she came over (twice) to say goodbye to me before I left.

5. QUESTIONS:
(a) Is this how it works?
(b) How does one meet NICE guys in a way which is not internet-sleazy, or unsafe?

As much as I enjoyed the dancing and stuff, well the cost of buying food and drinks and even the gastly cigarette smoke of the bar scene would prevent me from wanting to rely on meeting guys that way. I do forsee a trip to a gay dance club in my future, but I don't know if I'd feel safe doing much else than dancing and flirting there.

Thanks for Listening and any helpful comments or advice would be appreciated.


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#69313 - 10/31/05 01:28 PM Re: Ok, Now What
A psych rehab client in No. Va. Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 2
Loc: Falls Church, VA 22044-0394
Hey, sonlite...

You wrote:

"5. QUESTIONS:
(a) Is this how it works?
(b) How does one meet NICE guys in a way which is not internet-sleazy, or unsafe?"

a) Yes.
b) You don't get to pick if the guys you meet are nice. You do get to pick whether you keep at it, or let it go.

This is done by appropriately sequencing personal and intimate disclosure, everything from your name, neighborhood, and phone number to your abuse history, if any, or suvivor status, if any.

This is my first board under a handle or nom d'plume or pseudonym. I find the article, under the survivors/adult survivors tab on this site, on Disclosure to be helpful. It is a focus of my current therapy. It's HARD WORK.

Just remember there's an infinite supply of new potential friends. So don't be afraid to fail, or to abandon new friends. I am not saying you should burn through people like campfire tinder. Just that there's always another chance.

Now as far as safety goes, it's all about limits and boundaries. If you are unsure of your boundaries, your limits should favor safety. You can set, find, explore, or push boundaries for yourself.

My SAT says use a green/yellow/red zone system. green is I'm OK, yellow is We're Pushing It, red would be Turn Around and Get Out!

Greeen might be talking or hugging, whatever is comfortable. Yellow might be kissing or touching. Red is anything that can get you in trouble, feels bad, hurts, is dangerous, illegal, whatever.

Sounds to me like you are doing well.

For my technical work (I'm an experimental machinist) we always run Safety, Comfort, and Fun in that order. Like helmet, handles, and speed if I'm riding my motorcycle. Or goggles, leathers, and good illumination if we're welding.

This can apply to meeting new people, viz, you can't be comfortable if you're not safe, and you can't have fun if you're not comfortable.

I'm bi but I am in multiple relationships with women right now. That's safe, comfortable, and fun for me. This is polyamory; everybody knows what's going on. I made that mistake (the mistake of not keeping everybody in the loop) May 12 three years ago and just got my apology accepted this week. I've had one solidly loving, and one abusive relationship in my history of male contact. I am not looking to hook up on this board; I am here to work and to fight the denial and the shame we find.

Good luck to you!


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#69314 - 11/01/05 02:38 AM Re: Ok, Now What
sonlite Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 100
Loc: North Carolina
Thanks PsyRehab for an encouraging reply.

1. I am getting a bit more excited and a bit Less nervous about the prospects of being out there socially, specifically to meet some Nice, cute, guys. Safety and Self-Awareness come first.

2. Perhaps I am sending mixed messages out there to the universe, but I have been dropping hints of interest to some women too over the past few days.

3. I have been to a few informational and educational websites and yahoo groups on polyamory and I can see myself drawn to such relationships, under certain circumstances.

4. But for starters I'll just see about making friends and getting a first date. And it seems that may be complicated enough, just finding the right setting to meet the right people.


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#69315 - 11/02/05 12:45 PM Re: Ok, Now What
sonlite Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 100
Loc: North Carolina
Me Again - Just feel like talking.

1. Yesterday I back to the GLBT bar where I was last Sunday and had a late lunch and read. There were a couple of women in there, but otherwise the place was kind of empty. But I went back to just 'be in the space' and I was comfortable being there.

2. Later I went to the GLBT bookstore and found a book on gay parenting and issues w/ raising children. It was on sale so I bought it.

3. I found two interesting guys on yahoo personals. One has mentioned he is "spiritual-not-religious" which fits in w/ my values and the other has mentioned he wants kids someday which is also a value of mine. Is it all similar to negotiating attractions to women or am I missing some considerations and questions when considering dating guys?

4. Tonight there is a GLBT Coffee house event and I am torn between going to that and going to a church class which I had started and haven't attended for every session. Plus the woman who I was so attracted to might be there w/ her new B/Friend and even though I am sending out signals about seeking men, I would have chosen this woman as "Plan-A".

5. I think I'm back to being nervous about it all again. The more real steps I take, the more vulnerable I feel.


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#69316 - 11/03/05 04:04 AM Re: Ok, Now What
sonlite Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 100
Loc: North Carolina
Me yet again - hoping for some guidance as I try to navigate my integration into a whole person.

1. Went to GLBT coffee house event tonight and met a very nice, cute guy and we talked, and talked, and talked about cooking and recipes and stuff. His gifts and his passions no doubt in cooking and he should be a chef somewhere and if I had won the big $300 million lottery from a few weeks back, I'd just up and send him to chef school. There was the eye contact, the touches and smiles and all the official flirting stuff. And my "fabulous" part had just a wonderous time bc if this guy were any gay'er, he'd have just burst into flames. But in a sense he is just the kind of sensitive man I would feel safe with, just for the very reason that he was not one of these muscle-bound domineering type of men.

2. Then of course my other family man (straight) part was watching the women go by; pretty humorously irrational since most of the women were lesbians. But even as I was engaged in a highly energized conversation w/ Mr. Cutie about cooking, my head was on a swivel looking at women's pretty smiles and breasts walk by.

3. And add to the mix how things got confusing in my heart and mind as I was having an inner conflict of Fabulous: "Geez he's cute" vs. Family Man: "Oh my God what are you Doing ? I ended things awkwardly when I asked what time it was and made mention that I needed to be up early tomorrow and had to go. He asked for my number and I gave him my email address only. He asked for my weekend plans and stalled and mentioned working this weekend.

4. Driving away I wanted to cry, for him bc I don't want to hurt such a kind, and gentle soul, I wanted to cry for me bc the Fabulous part of me wanted to grab him and kiss him deeply right there in the coffee shop and I wanted to cry bc living in "parts" is so hard. I am resolved to be honest w/ him and to let him know that I am exploring and that I don't know if I would be able to engage my heart in addition to my body.

5. I am debating what to do about my roommate situation bc its his own house where I rent from and I am sick of living lies and if I went out w/ Mr Cutie and spent the night, I am almost itching for a fight to tell my Bible Thumper roommate that "Yes I didn't come home last night bc I was out w/ sleeping a guy". And part of me wants to just confront him and say "Look if I were gay would you ask me to move away, so I can start looking for a new place to live?" But the fact is I am not 100% gay, I am maybe 25% attracted to males vs. women and so I am more confused than ever.

6. I don't regret being out there beyond my comfort zone. I don't regret darn near challenging God to a duel while driving in the car this week bc I want answers to some tough questions which clergy abuse survivors must face. And I don't regret going slow w/ the cutie I met at the coffee shop. I look young for my age and I wonder if he knew I was like 15 years older than he, or if he cared. It was much safer in my hermit shell, but I was much less alive.


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#69317 - 11/06/05 02:55 AM Re: Ok, Now What
sonlite Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 100
Loc: North Carolina
I Guess I'm a little disappointed to have had only one reply on this thread. I will walk this path and sort this out alone, if I must.


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#69318 - 11/06/05 05:52 PM Re: Ok, Now What
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Sonlite,

Please don't feel snubbed or ignored if a post passes without a lot of comment. There really is no telling how these things will go. Someone posted to me that my mailbox is full, for example, and that turned into a thread with more than 40 responses! Who would have thunk it? \:\) Another time I posted about a film I had a lot to say about, and it was a total flop (my post I mean). It's a crazy world.

I didn't respond to you because you asked for input from other guys who are gay or bi. I am neither, and I don't have any experience in clubbing.

One concern I might share with you, however, is that you seem to be really worried about doing things right and is this how it goes. My thought on this would be that we are all different, and the best path for someone will depend on so many personal factors. I would say just be yourself, take things in small safe steps, and discover what suits you and allows you to feel comfortable. If you try to fit yourself into a pre-defined template, you will only connect with other guys doing exactly the same thing. Just be yourself and you will have greater chances of meeting someone you can really relate to.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#69319 - 11/06/05 07:18 PM Re: Ok, Now What
sonlite Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 100
Loc: North Carolina
Thanks Larry -

1. Good Reminder for me to not take it personally when I don't get a reply. I just feel very lost and alone in all of this powerful awakening and realizing of sexuality, which I tried so hard to numb for years and years. And I am just now beginning to form a sort of trust in God and in myself - so for the most part, I feel very, very Alone.

Good Advice for me to go slow and safe and to do it the way my inner-guidance tells me is ok.

2. I really don't want to hurt anyone. I have been hurt by sexuality in the past and so I am hyper-sensitive of wanting to be considerate of others to the point of just numbing my own desires and needs for sexual expression. And of course the 'Mr Nice Guy' approach is a defense to letting myself get in the game and experience and engage my heart,and my body. It wasn't what the priest did to my body that hurt so much as what he did to my gentle little-boy heart, who loved him and loved his attention and approval; before things got ugly.

3. I was reflecting this morning after a brief foray into gay porn that that is how I learned to attach and bond ... through being a sexual vehicle for a man. And now that I am an adult and having to accept, and to make my own choices about attractions and attachments, I seem to be working through many confusing feelings and beliefs. i.e. What if I am really honest and accept that I do want to just "hook up" to explore and experience the rush of sex - if I were honest w/ my partner, would that be so Bad?

4. I am in an "Attachment vs. Feel the Rush" dichotomy today. It would be dishonest to deny the urge to just "let go" and hook up and yet I carry in my heart, a promise for and desire for someone lifelong to arrive in a few months in the future.

And Larry, Thank You for signing off w/ "Much Love" bc it hit me that non-sexual love between men can and should exist in my life.


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#69320 - 11/06/05 07:42 PM Re: Ok, Now What
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Sonlite,

Trying to recover from abuse throws us into a wild storm of emotions, that's for sure. We don't know how to cope with them, quite often because - as you say and as I agree from my own experience - we coped in the past by refusing to feel. Now, when we start on our way back, it all feels so lonely. I so know what you mean, and so do others here.

I am probably the wrong person to ask about what is good and bad sexually, since my own view is that sexual activity between two consenting adults is for them to decide - not the rest of us - so long as they are being honest with each other.

My concern for you would be this: what is honest for you? I will tell you why I ask this. When I was 16 I had my first opportunity for sex, and with a girl I really liked. She came on to me and I was surprised and, to be honest, not ready yet. I was confused and embarrassed, and later that night some of my feelings revolved around the thought that wow, I almost became like "him" (the abuser who had me until I was 14). If I had had sex with that girl, I can imagine it would have been very traumatic for me in all sorts of ways.

I can't connect this with you, of course, since I don't know your feelings and experiences except for what you have said in a few posts. But what do you want? How do you feel? These are the things you need to ask yourself. If you would be comfortable with a "fling" and are not deceiving the other guy, then go for it. I think we need to recognize that we are sexual beings with a natural desire for sexual fulfillment, and the fact that we are survivors of sexual abuse doesn't change this fact.

The real peril is falling into sexual activity that is exploitive. When you were abused by the priest you were being exploited, used and betrayed. Engaging in anything that risks raising your fears that you are becoming like him ought to be avoided just on moral grounds of course, but for a survivor it would be a kind of acting out and could be quite harmful.

I should stress here that I am just speaking as another survivor, and as one whose ideas about this would be challenged by others on various grounds.

Thanks for your comment on my sign-off. I do mean "much love" from my heart, for all my brothers here on the site. I think it is possible to care deeply for guys even if they are thousands of miles away. So, again......

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#69321 - 11/14/05 11:40 AM Re: Ok, Now What
igotsunshine Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 12
Loc: pakistan
Larry

re your signature: why do I feel desecrated and how do I stop feeling that


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