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#68201 - 12/28/06 10:16 PM Re: CSA before age 4 - need to hear from you
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
So what I'm wondering is, is it true or not that before we can love others we have to first love ourselves?

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#68202 - 12/28/06 10:23 PM Re: CSA before age 4 - need to hear from you
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Reality2k4,

You mention the mask. How should I be around my husband so that he knows I see through the mask and am tired of it? Always such a happy "nothing's-wrong-with-me" facade. Rather than just going along with it as I have for too many yrs now, I want to acknowledge that it is just a mask. Is there any way someone could treat you to make you take the mask down? As in, saying something like, "enough bull____ already!" ???

Also, when you say you seek help and don't get it, are you speaking of seeking help from a trained therapist? Because a good one won't ignore your pleas for help no matter how repetitive.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#68203 - 01/02/07 07:06 AM Re: CSA before age 4 - need to hear from you
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Maybe I'm projecting but it seems to me as a parent that kids can recognize different emotions in themselves and in others earlier than 4 years.

I have found that I still can't identify every emotion I feel when I think of my past. What has helped me more in healing is learning how to name and acknowledge what is REAL (or "okay") and what was NOT REAL (or not okay). I believed X,Y, and Z that were not real, not true, only based in a sick person's version of reality. I experienced x, y, and z that have no correlation to "okay" experiences or regular healthy living. I think this is where kids get stuck at young ages. They have no frame of reference for what is okay or sane or normal beyond what is shown them.

I remember reading a list here once, of the various ages that people are likely to disclose abuse... there are some big gaps in there... does anyone have that or remember it?


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#68204 - 01/02/07 06:16 PM Re: CSA before age 4 - need to hear from you
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
Sar - It's good to have you post!!! Happy New Year!! I don't remember to what you refer but know in working with victims that there are certain ages I have experienced their disclosures. I'll share that if it helps!

Usually most memories pick up the abuse about 5 years old [ most of us remember our abuse starting around 5-6]. If it does not occur at that time, the next age is usually 8-9-10 when we become more aware of those around us, we start the "bathroom" humor, we realize what happened was not "normal" or okay. If it does not occur at that time, it may occur during puberty or sexual development [maybe 10-11-12+) when the 'guys' joke about sex, bash homosexuality, etc., in Middle School we begin showers after gym, sports, etc. If it does not occur at that time, it may come out during the dating era (about age 16 more out of guilt and shame than enlightenment). If not at that time, it may occur around age 18 which signals readiness to leave home and spark safety and individuation issues. If it does not occur at that time, it usually follows us through life until some emotional or environmental trigger sets us off at 35 - 55 years old. By that time, many of us have had multiple marriages, bouts with drugs & alcohol [rehabs, struggles], struggled through prostitution and sexual addictions, lost enumerable jobs and careers and may even have experienced homelessness. The longer you keep "The Secret", the more trauma and damage it does in our lives.

Howard

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

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#68206 - 01/03/07 08:45 PM Re: CSA before age 4 - need to hear from you
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Whenever I cry my husband does not feel sad that I am hurting. He does not have the natural inclination to come over and comfort me. In fact it seems to irritate him. He will say, "Why are you crying? Stop crying!"

I started this thread because I am hopeful he can learn to be more empathetic and not so much like a stone. I don't even know his first age of csa but I am sure it is very early. When I read that emotional development stops at the age of the first csa, and then read that kids start understanding empathy around age 4, I wondered if he just never got around to developing it, and further I wonder if it can be developed now, late in life, through therapy. I worry because I need someone who can sense others' feelings, someone who can feel with me so I'm not so alone, and our daughter needs a dad who can "mirror" with her, demonstrating empathy with her, thereby validating her own feelings.

You all are helping me to understand but can you say that you feel sad if someone else is sad?

I feel sad that so many of you say you care for others more than for yourselves. I hope all of you will find a tender heart full of well-deserved love and regard inside toward yourselves one day.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#68207 - 01/03/07 08:50 PM Re: CSA before age 4 - need to hear from you
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
BH, I live in UK and its not like the states, you have to keep on and on to get anywhere.
The mask is gained in childhood, a way of dealing with hurt such as isolation or whatever you used to lessen the hurt.

Its more complex than you think, because it is intertwined with boundary issues.
Cognitive therapy can help to an extent, but you cannot just give up something without putting something else in its place.

Yelling at him wont do you any good, and he will need space to do things the way he does them without being yelled at.

Try and start by doing things outdoors together, long walks in isolated places can be good.
You have to realise the terror he must have gone through so young, and it tends to pop up unconsciouly.

Its like having a terrified little kid inside you yelling to feel safe.
If he hasnt talked about it for many years, it will be pretty embedded in his psyche,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#68208 - 01/03/07 10:43 PM Re: CSA before age 4 - need to hear from you
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Just to add to your original plea.
I have empathy with others, but lack being able to deal with grief, like it cannot be happening,

As a 4yo your partner would not have made the essential contact with protective adults.
In other words, he will have a mass distrust with other adults, and he will see any love, as a part of his past.

Maybe he treats sex as the confused little boy, who had no concept of what was happening.
He would have sensed a deep wrongdoing, with the added expectancy of ritual of it happening often.

You are going to think of a cowaring lil boy in some place he called safe.
I cannot even think of the terror in a child so young, but it would have been terrifying if it was not under any of his control, i,e. if a guardian or parent who he trusted did this.

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#68209 - 01/04/07 02:14 AM Re: CSA before age 4 - need to hear from you
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Ste, wow. You are helping me understand more than you know. The perp he told me about was his mom's b/f. I wonder if the mom was aware of it. A few months ago when I was talking about it to him, I asked if he ever told him mom what was happening. He shook his head. I said I was so sorry she didn't protect him, then I added, "Maybe she couldn't protect you." He just shook his head but said nothing. And then that conversation was over.

He has told me he doesn't remember large chunks of his childhood.

I feel like I have been in mourning for 6 months now, and that it will never end for me, imagining him as that scared to death little boy w/ no one to protect him. Then I need to come out of that mourning so that I can concentrate on what to do "now", or what "can" be done....or at least what to hope for, for him and for our marriage.

6 months ago he said "I don't trust ANYBODY," and, "I don't feel anything....I can't feel..." So that is why I figured maybe the PTSD symptoms began then, after he has suppressed these things for so long, and was probably triggered by a big rejection earlier in the year, in January 2006, jobwise, a job he really badly wanted and almost got and everyone said he should have gotten, and it hurt his ego tremendously. SLowly he grew more and more distant from me until Father's Day, when he started taking midnight walks and startled pretty badly if I tried to hug him, etc.

I wish we could spend time together....an outdoor walk would be nice....he makes sure he works almost 24/7, especially these days, so it's very difficult for me to get time alone w/ him unless it's in front of the tv late at night sometimes, during which he watches loud, violent sci-fi or crime/escape shows....hmm, wonder why....

God, how I wish I could help him.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

Top
#68210 - 01/04/07 02:46 AM Re: CSA before age 4 - need to hear from you
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
you are helping him

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#68211 - 01/04/07 03:07 PM Re: CSA before age 4 - need to hear from you
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
This is one of the hardest topics I have read recently, but you are helping him, he is talking, but it will be slow at first.

Try and wean him off violent TV, and try get him to listen to relaxing stuff.
If he has full trust in you, he will open up, but it will be slow,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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