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#67970 - 10/17/03 08:37 AM My Head & Heart are swimming....
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
Hi Guize,
It's been awhile since I posted last -- and hubby2 is really in overdrive again. I am not sure how or what I am feeling if anything toward him & our relationship. He's overloaded himself with work, school for work, full time school for a career change, a kitchen gut/ rehab and his individual therapy and addiciton mtgs.
I've been spending more time with him but it's not time that is enjoyable productive or terribly satisfying. He did have some extra time off from school last night so was home early.. he phoned frustrated and pretty much in tears becuz he took another test at school and missed ONE. ONE he missed a lousy one still got an A but it wasn't a "Perfect A" for him. I talked with him about setting up impossible goals to reach... the perfection he seeks to prove he is NOT the DUMB ASS other critical ppl in his life have reinforced yrs ago. Those folks dont even know he is in school again or dead. I asked him if he would expect perfection from our kiddo's. His answer.. a strong NO. He didn't expect perfection from me anymore... so I asked why he expected so much of himself. He quickly said he has to prove to himself he is not a dumb ass.
A short two word catch phrase and the amount of damage it caused is incredible. It has become such a driver in his every day life... and his behavior becomes erratic and thought processes go out the window with the pee pot. He did say he is concerned about how quickly little things piss him off to the yelling pt. Something the big teddy bear of a pacifist has never done! My thots I shared with him is that it is ok to be letting the steam out right now.. the steam is "genuinely being irked" at the situations not being clouded by the feelings of constantly "hiding" brought on by the addiction behaviors. Perhaps having known him so very long I can easily see the difference in his snappy retorts yet it is not easily verbally defined from me?
We did spend a long time talking with out a ballgame in the background or music or tv crap or anyone else around. THAT was soooo nice and I think I got to "hear" so much better and he was more able to relax and unload. He is so freaking stressed out -- when I pointed out to him that anyone would be on overload adding any ONE of his list of concerns to daily living , well he did cry some. I felt so bad for him ... gave him lots of hugs and pats and ooorahs for his work.
He told me that he is just a couple of short weeks away from his 1 yr. of sobriety for his sex addiction. WOW! the time has FLOWN By! I asked him did he "miss" his addiction he said yes sometimes when he is really stressed out. MY Gosh! he was sooo waaay BRAVE in sharing that! Then proceeded to beat himself up becuz he has missed 2 mtgs in the past couple wks trying to get the drywall hung in the kitchen.. I tried like hell to encourage him by reminding him that sometimes we have to prioritize in life and that means "living life" and putting some of our emotional stuff on hold for a short while if possible so we can give our best time to healing... I hope I am not too far off base with that.
We have a mutual friend who has been so surprisingly supportive in so many different ways, from making sure I have gas in my car to helping him hang the drywall to just having lunch with me so I can talk a bit about my own memory floods. We both laughed a bit insanely at my comment that it is so weird feeling to have someone be so supportive just by telling me - "I am going to be here to love you and help you until you no longer call on me to do so." I said to our friend and hubby2... it is so foreign to me to hear that from ANYONE .. that people ALWAYS abandon me in the middle or before the end is in sight.. Hubby2 more than agreed with that and said he too felt that way.
Is that the norm? Is it the norm that other ppl will willingly help and stay so committed to helping on bad days and even good days ??? What is that? How does someone make that selfless choice? My therapist has talked to our friend and was very blunt about how and what he could do to support us ... WHAT person in their right mind would willingly walk into a therapist ofc and actually ask and listen to HOW to be supportive of someone's who have been abused? Our friend has become "superhuman" to me and I am scared to put too much on him for fear of pushing him out or scaring him away or even letting go of info that would be waaay too much for him to handle.
And hubby2 feels that way too? I wonder now waaay too early in the AM -- what kind of a blissful life someone has experienced to have that much compassion? I saw a post (i think by dave?) that said he and his spouse haven't made the jump to couples therapy yet. Hubby & I talked about that.. we haven't made that jump either. I suspect I am more than just laying back waiting for Hubby to push the issue -- in yrs past he has never really followed thru with his therapy instead choosing to overwhelm himself in other projects slowly pushing the priority of his individual work to the bottom of the list. I think I am waitng to see how "long" his reach for help will last this time so as not to bear the pain of injury from his lack of follow thru on himself.. in effect abandoning himself, me and the importance of our relationship. Hmmm, although I see huge tremendous strides forward in Hubby... I am not trusting him to follow thru this time either?
And I am beginning to wonder of myself if I am setting him up somehow in my own behavior for failure? I want for him to succeed -- I like him waaaaayyyy more being genuine and real with me. No matter HOW much he loses his temper or calls me to crab ... at least its HONEST and TRUTHFUL about how he is feeling and thinking. I am falling in love with him all over again but even better this time!
And if that is true.. why then are we not being more expressive of that? I dont have any real overwhelming desire to be sexually intimate with him. BUT, I do want to hug a whole lot more, lay in bed and jabber together about everything. I CRAVE the intimacy of talking and listening to his voice.... I do get all first date jittery knowing I have Wed. lunches with him, and Friday nights... and even sundays of work with him. It isn't enough, yet its almost too much also. I did share with him that I did not feel this overwhelming desire to have sex... but was more than happy with our once every couple of months -- I was VERY surprised he felt satisfied also...
We talked some on how we each equally have stepped outside of our marriage vows in the course of our yrs together. AND how even during our earlier yrs together even were obsessive sexually with each other. I know for me I am amazed that I truly hold no anger or animosity at his behavior of prostitutes and the binge drinking and the compulsive masturbation. If I feel anything toward those behaviors it is great sadness at how much life he missed out.
It's been 2 yrs since he told me he was going to be charged with a sex crime... and I think this is an anniversary to celebrate his freedom from secrets kept far too long.
If that is so true... and I do believe it -- why then am I not working hard at putting our relationship into a more socially accepted status? I.E. moving back in with him and seeking couples therapy. Hubby holds all my secrets and knows my history in detail --
Is this part of FAITH in healing and others? Does "Faith" in being better feel empty and void of dramatic emotions? Is it the inner knowing that All of Life will be just fine and peaceful with no urgency?
I'm confused and flooded with so many thoughts and emotions. And now yet again.. I am flooding with more memories of my own. Memories tripped and triggered and validated ... I cant stop them. I cant stop the validations... and I dont want them there. Are the memories themselves trying to intrude and fuck up the healing that is happening between Hubby and I? Am I remembering shit to "take away" something from Hubby? Am I needing so much attention and love I am producing falsehoods as distractors? .... I dont want to screw up his healing with my own garbage .. perhaps I am afraid to admit that in past I have done exactly that?
Is anyone else a survivor of SA and their spouse is also? Is there hope for us to become better as a union? Am I pissing myself into a corner with stupid thought processes making mountains out of molehills with this crap? --- I asked my T what in the hell was going on with my own flooding ( i havent shared it with hubby) he said to me I havent accepted it yet... I still had a hard time, I cant speak about the details -- Does that mean I haven't accepted it?
Am I shoving my feelings of rage and hurt in some cubicle in my memory bank so as not to feel them.. I've not ever lost my cool and yelled at him very much for the pain he created with his behaviors -- perhaps giving myself forgiveness for my own shitty behaviors in understanding now WHY he did those things... AM I glossing this crap over?
Perhaps I am still waaaay shut down from him never to fully trust him... if that is so is that acceptable or am I injurying him by not trusting him again?
WOW?! ... Am I injurying him by not trusting him?
some feedback would be appreciated... I am swimming in the toilet bowl flush here...
Peace, Sammy


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#67971 - 10/17/03 12:58 PM Re: My Head & Heart are swimming....
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
First thing - take a deep breath. Breathe.. breathe...

Second thing - remember your situatoin right now as I recall - you are getting over some SA issues as well? The biggest priority that you have right now is to yourself. Do not do anything out of a sense of duty if you feel it is at the expense of your own mental health.

Third thing - there actually ARE people out there who are willing to stick by people.. I have a few friends who constantly amaze me. But then there are others who come and go - and both are totally normal. It is worth spending time though thinking about how much you can put on any one person - every person has their limits and I have burned people out by my own needs from time to time. If you are a good friend with this person probably worth cultivating communications on what are that persons' limits and encouraging them to let you know when they are hitting their limits.

Last thing - with respect to two survivors - I am not a SA survivor but I am a survivor of childhood trauma (unstable, violent, abusive alcoholic parent) and my fiance is a SA survivor. While our relationship has been tough slogging, we have defintely moved through some tough tings and are now planning our wedding. So if our experience is any proof - it IS possible for two survivors to build a relationship.. but it does require a lot of individual work, healing and effort to have happened within ourselves first.

We have had to work hard at identifying those places and incidences where each of us are triggered and the behaviour that we exhibit that triggers each other and we have had to learn how to verbalize those experiences without getting emotional or attacking each other (very hard!!)

In my situation - when my BF gets SA triggered he gets violently angry, and that triggers me and here we go round and round. And it gets unbelievably nasty. It takes a tremendous amount of insight, self control, honesty, a very minimalist ego, and a lot of self awareness, the ability to both forgive yourself and the other person AND stand up for yourself (and to know when to draw that line) AND some very well defined emotional boundaries for us to make this work.

Couples therapy has helped us get to where we are.. but to but both of us have had to be ready and open for it to be worthwhile. What couples therapy did for us was allow a) exploration of healthy communication styles and then b) the exploration of the individual issues that we both had to go back and work on alone that were causing the relationship to be toxic. Both parts were much needed - I dont think my fiance would have listened if I had told him he needed anger management therapy. And I dont think that I would have listened if my fiance had told me I needed to address my anxiety disorder (Anxiety and panic disorder? what anxiety and panic disorder? \:\)

But at least we did listen to the T.

Hope this helps.


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#67972 - 10/17/03 01:48 PM Re: My Head & Heart are swimming....
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
"inspiration !!"

Dave \:\)

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#67973 - 10/17/03 07:41 PM Re: My Head & Heart are swimming....
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Quote:
t is so weird feeling to have someone be so supportive just by telling me - "I am going to be here to love you and help you until you no longer call on me to do so." I said to our friend and hubby2... it is so foreign to me to hear that from ANYONE .. that people ALWAYS abandon me in the middle or before the end is in sight.. Hubby2 more than agreed with that and said he too felt that way.
Is that the norm? Is it the norm that other ppl will willingly help and stay so committed to helping on bad days and even good days ??? What is that? How does someone make that selfless choice?
I believe they make that choice because we have made that same choice as well, true friendship is a mutual thing.
And when it's good it's great.

My best friend Paul is amazing, he knows I acted out with other guys, but he still jumps in the shower with me at work. Although he does draw the line at bending over to pick up the soap ;\)
But we have no secrets, and no shame between us.

When I started my recovery he was leaving his alcoholic wife with nothing more than a few clothes in a bin bag, it took him three years to get custody of his youngest boy, his wife ran up enough debt to bankrupt a small nation, his other son disclosed he was gay and his young daughter ran off with a drug dealing thug !
So you can imagine the fun filled talks we had some days !

But we talked, and we cried, and we talked some more.
Now we trust each other totally, we also piss each other off at times. We've nearly come to blows before now, but we both know that what we've got is precious and not to be thrown away lightly. So we get over it.

This week he's demonstrated his friendship again, we work together and were out in the van yesterday when I had a collision with a very nice $125,000 BMW, they bend just the same as a Ford you know.
Anyway, the driver was pissed off and ready to drag me out of the drivers door of the van, where I was sitting covered in glass and wondering what the hell was going on.
When I realised this guy was 'upset' I locked the door ,not much good when the glass is gone I know, but I was about to drive away to safety when Paul got out and calmed the guy down without hesitation. Then he sorted everything out.

Why ? he said because he knows I'd do the same for him. I hope I would.

Occasionally we go and get drunk together, and it's a rare sight. By the end of the night we're crying with laughter as I make jokes about his ex wife and his madly complicated life, and he makes jokes about my acting out.

Everybody needs a hero, and until a proper one turns up, he'll have to do.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#67974 - 10/19/03 01:41 AM Re: My Head & Heart are swimming....
gryffindor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 131
Loc: St. Charles, Illinois
If that is so true... and I do believe it -- why then am I not working hard at putting our relationship into a more socially accepted status? I.E. moving back in with him and seeking couples therapy.
__________________________________________________

It sounds to me like your relationship has improved so much because you decided to separate for awhile. It also sounds like you have your own issues regarding the SA you suffered and that, in the interests of preserving your relationship, you withheld your anger at your husband over the negative incidents that occurred while you were living together. You need to get on with your recovery from your SA issues. When you feel that you have progressed to the point where you feel pretty stable, then suggest couples therapy and address your withheld anger during that time. You might also bring it up with your SA T. Old anger has a way of increasing exponentially over time and can turn a trivial upset into a major disaster. When you and Hubby start feeling good results from your couples therapy, then you can start talking about living together again. Somehow I think if you moved back in together now you would wind up back on square one. I think you intuit this and that's the reason you are reluctant to do it. Who care what society thinks. You're not doing anything wrong. You're doing everything right!

Mary

_________________________
"Where there's a will, there's a way." American Folk Saying

"Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in darkness, I would not have recognized the light." Midrash Tehillim Ch. 22

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#67975 - 10/23/03 11:46 AM Re: My Head & Heart are swimming....
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
Hi Guize,
I've read your postings repeatedly these past few days. AND talked with my T. in more detail about my own SA. I've been going thru the range of emotions again from not trusting myself, not trusting the new memories or new validations, to being pissed off now am doing some sort of rationalizing of this crap.
I am recognizing just how MUCH I work to sabotage good things others may say or do in my life. I do that in an automatic response if someone says something kind to me. It feels "ickey". I know it feels ickey because of the way my perps groomed me... there was very little open & direct threat physically to me other than how most of the assaults ended up.
I know too that this is not the first time I have felt jealousy about Hubby's ability to "go to work" or do exceptionally well in school. To maybe REALLY be able to run & hide. When I hear him beat the shit out of him self for not getting the "clean A" as opposed to a "A" having missed one -- it irks the shit out of me he is seeing the negative not his positives. A trait in myself I too do.
I have been really thinking about the couples therapy.. and recognize for myself that I am NOT ready for it. Oh I could come up with a hundred excuses for NOT doing it. But the fact more probably is that I still dont trust him. I absolutely DONT want to put my heart out there for a crushing yet again. Perhaps some of my not being willing to join in couples therapy is ME "punishing" him.
It has been very easy to not push the subject as he has done his norm and overwhelmed himself in his life with various jobs & projects. A form of abandoning me perhaps? Abandoning our relationship or not putting as high of a priority mark on me or it? Which makes more fuel for me not trusting him?
Besides as long as my needs are basically met -- and I am working to fill them via involving myself in more community work, or friends .. and keeping my physical self as healthy as possible then I am also abandoning him -- and proving yet again to myself "I dont NEED ANYONE" to survive.
T said I am working to "Thrive Now" rather than just "Survive". While some of that is true, most of it truly sounds to me like a bullshit cover.... That a couple yrs ago when I felt & SAW this black steel wall slide down between us (b4 i knew about his sex crime) -- it was the END of the relationship. Something so minor as his actions of going to my former boss & hiring them to handle the finances felt like a direct slap/ stab / gutting TO me AT me FOR me to get back at me for injurying him in ways he never shared with me. Something changed then.. and has only gotten worse.
I got to a point where I even attempted dating someone else then. He freaked out.. I had to threaten callling the cops on his butt to get him off my apt property - was thoroughly embarrassed as the guy I was dating was with me at the time. AND hubby even did his part of freaking me out by "stalking behavior" then.. finding the guy I was datings car, running the plates getting his addy & then calling me if I was with the other guy making no sense with his requests.
I am babbling with much of this, still a bit in a swirl. Yet I dont feel as fragmented this time around. Perhaps I will continue to go thru this cyclic crap the rest of my life?
Part of me is accepting that forever my life has been changed & stunted at the same time until I die... I am not feeling particularly bad about that.. tho it sounds depressing as hell. I am not sure what the other parts are feeling.
Ya'll have had great things to share and I appreciate EVERY word shared.... gave me much to think about.
some of what i think is core root in this for me is the overwhelming feeling that because of my heart disease being so severe I only have a very little amount of time gifted to me to "repair" this relationship so I dont have to "redo" this crap when I die. AND, I dont want to leave a legacy of having NOT FIXED MY DEMONS before I die. THAT is so scarey for me... I am frightened to death of Dying BEFORE my girls get a chance to see mom and dad work this out -- I know that if I dont work the bugs out of this relationship I wont be able to have a healthy relationship with any one else -- and that brings about a feeling of hopelessness for any peace or happiness in this life before I pass. I dont want to Die ALONE
Whatcha think?
Peace, Sammy


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#67976 - 10/23/03 06:59 PM Re: My Head & Heart are swimming....
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Sammy
Quote:
AND, I dont want to leave a legacy of having NOT FIXED MY DEMONS before I die.
Making choices is a great way of chasing demons.
Send them running for cover, chase a demon or two my way, I know what to do with them.

Send them on their way.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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