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#67911 - 10/24/03 05:50 PM Re: sexual questions
stpbb Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 103
Another update -- we talked more about it & my ex told me that he feels the kind of 'I wouldn't belong to a club that would have me for a member' shame about sex. So if a woman WILL, then she must be bad because she'd be with someone like him. And if she won't, it reinforces the idea that he is undesireable -- a real great set-up for failure both ways, huh? And then the guilt/responsibility is also a factor -- he feels a sense of responsibility required for that type of relationship (not on the healthy, normal level, but like he becomes responsible for the other person's well-being if they are sexualy involved) so that brings up guilt and a sense of failure because of course no one in an adult relationship can take on the other's problems to that degree.

Things have been good -- lots of good conversations about these & other issues. I'm so impressed with how much progress he has made! He is seeing it as being in a real mess, but the fact that he is discussing and facing these issues just gives me so much hope for him in his recovery. He doesn't seem to be running away from things anymore. I mean, he still turns parts of it 'off' & 'on' as he is able to deal with them, but the denial is gone & he recognizes that he is doing that to cope.

He is also starting to make efforts to experiment with how we relate to each other. Inviting me to go places & do things that have been outside of his comfort zone. He doesn't always feel comfortable, but is looking at his reaction & then TALKING to me about it. I don't have a problem participating in the 'experiments' given that he explains what is going on, shows concern & respect for my feelings & takes responsibility for his own.

Anyway, I've vented so many times about the bad times I thought I'd do a little 'venting' about this. It is exciting to talk to him & hear what he has to say! To watch the current active progress he is making. It seems like he has gone through periods of progress & then some backsliding & then progress in the past where the progress was so tiny that it hardly seemed like it was happening. Right now it is the progress that is overshadowing the backsliding. A lot of work, emotion and effort for him, but so good to see!!

-BB.


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#67912 - 10/24/03 08:00 PM Re: sexual questions
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
BB

Quote:
told me that he feels the kind of 'I wouldn't belong to a club that would have me for a member' shame about sex. So if a woman WILL, then she must be bad because she'd be with someone like him. And if she won't, it reinforces the idea that he is undesireable --
That's a stunning statement, the accuracy is pinpoint - for me anyway, as it is for your fella.

Why is it so hard to resign form the club ? Is life membersip compulsory ?

I don't think it is at all, but it's a club where the f****g doormen keep people in insted of out !
and it's getting claustrophobic, I've GOT to get out.


Quote:
It is exciting to talk to him & hear what he has to say! To watch the current active progress he is making. It seems like he has gone through periods of progress & then some backsliding & then progress in the past where the progress was so tiny that it hardly seemed like it was happening.
That sounds good though, and I'm so pleased for you both.
We do so like our bits of encouragement when we're winning.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#67913 - 10/29/03 07:25 AM Re: sexual questions
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
I agree that there is much guilt feelings involved with sexual activity. I have never done anything like that, because of the bad feelings that go along with it. I have never done anything at all, actually. Embarrassing, but true.

leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

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#67914 - 10/30/03 09:14 PM Re: sexual questions
stpbb Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 103
another update -- yep, the guilt and strangeness has come up again. The feelings are there, so he is simultaneously trying to talk & be more open with me (yea!!!!! \:D ) and talking about whether he could attract a new girlfriend :rolleyes: . We get into really weird conversations because I tell him that he IS attractive, desireable, fun, funny, smart, etc. and that there are lots of women who would enjoy his company & find him attractive. Then he wants me to tell him where these women are :rolleyes: . Well, I'm not THAT generous -- not ready to give out dating advice! ;\)

So, because I am attracted to him, I am not credible enough for him to believe that he is attractive....but I AM believable if I can show that OTHER women would like him. He'll ask if certain friends of mine (who are unavailable, not a serious interest) would be interested in him. So my best friends' interest would 'prove' he is attractive, but mine doesn't. Of course, I'm sure that if they were available and seriously interested they'd immediately lose credibility too...

He's got himself set up to lose any way you look at it. Frustrating, but I think he's really trying to challenge some of those old assumptions, so we'll see how it goes.

-BB.


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#67915 - 10/31/03 09:17 PM Re: sexual questions
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Quote:
So, because I am attracted to him, I am not credible enough for him to believe that he is attractive
BB,

Maybe that's it exactly. You're attracted to him. That's one thing. But is he attractive? Or are you attracted to him because you were somehow able to get past his "unattractiveness?"

I've wondered along those same lines about the wonderful woman who married me and bore my kids, so I guess someone else could have some screwy ideas, too. Not that he could beat me in the "Screwy Idea" department, though. \:\)

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#67916 - 11/01/03 01:08 PM Re: sexual questions
stpbb Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 103
Yes, that is just it -- yes, he IS attractive. How many strange women have to agree with me before that is 'true', I mean, WHO decides what is attractive? Is it something where people collect votes? Compare to some perfect ideal standard?

When you say 'get past' the unattractiveness to find someone attractive, well, it just goes against the way I operate. I don't know about everyone else. When I got to know my ex, we were hanging out with a group of people. I was attracted to him BECAUSE I was attracted to him. Not because I saw past how disgusting and unappealing he was & managed somehow to see his good parts! I mean, WHY would I do that???? Especially if there were 'better' choices available to me.

But you are really on to something because he has said the same things to me...

It is frustrating because I feel like the only way I can gain credibility is to find someone else & 'prove' that I can pick who I want to be with & that I'm not 'attracted' to him because I am so pathetic that I can't find anyone better.

Grrrrrrrr. And of course, if I do that, then he'll see that it proved he WASN'T attractive, because i'd be with someone else who WAS, right?

Not sure how or if I can get this point across to him, but at least he has some awareness of the issues & can see part of the inconsistencies.

Any ideas?

-BB.


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