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#67565 - 08/30/03 06:28 PM pain and hurt
stpbb Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 103
Hi again guys. I just talked with my ex bf for the first time in over a week. He is having some health problems & has been on pain killers to deal with it all week. I heard about it from his sister & that he was having a procedure done yesterday, so I called & left a message saying feel better & I'm sorry he's going through this right now.

Well, he called me today & just really made me feel like crap. And I think he wanted to. The last time we spoke, he was being really cold & I had told him that I was hurt & angry about him sleeping in bed with his ex. I told him (calmly) that I deserve warmth & consistency & kindness & that he wasn't giving me those things & I was angry about that & about the situation with the ex.

So today he tells me that he thinks I was really mean to him, that he realized when he went in to the hospital for his problem who his friends were & that he couldn't call me for a ride because I wasn't a friend. That when we talked last he was holding the phone away from his ear because I was yelling. That he didn't think we could be friends at all anymore because I was so mean....

Well, I said that I didn't think it was mean, that I hadn't yelled & that I was hurt & upset by what he was saying to me today, but that if he didn't want to be friends I wouldn't argue about it becuase I think friends care how you are feeling & he didn't seem to want to deal with the fact that I have feelings. I told him that what he was saying was really making me feel bad & he started asking me about what I've been doing lately.

Finally, after we talked for a little while, he said that he thought we could be friends, but not friendly friends -- like we could be distant friends.

Talking to him made everything seem completely insane. His interpretation of things and the angry response to my hurt and anger seems crazy to me. And now he is acting like he is the injured party & he has to break things off with me because I am making his life more difficult.

I thought a call to support him about the health stuff would be safe but I feel as though I have been attacked in the most underhanded, unacknowledged way so I can't even really defend myself without looking like I am crazy and overreacting.

I have already quit trying to even talk with him or resolve things. I have basically been letting go & thinking that if he doesn't address things then I will just let them drift apart & go on with things. Instead, he is now attacking me and making me feel that I am being punished by not getting to have his company anymore. People say to just be done wtih the relationship -- well, I have been getting done. I HAVE been greiving and moving on with my life without him in it. I am sad we are no longer together & I am not investing my time or effort in him or the relationship.

I guess my real question is -- why? why would he want to be mean? why does he want to make me into a bad guy? why can't he see that it is enough to sleep with the ex, he doesn't have to make accusations against me as well? why would he even bother to call if this was his purpose?

-BB.


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#67566 - 08/30/03 09:30 PM Re: pain and hurt
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
BB
Do you need any more convincing ?

Survivors like us can have the most mixed up ideas about dealing with other people, especially those who are good or loving towards us.

I played the same card for a long while, many years. I would manipulate situations until we rowed, and make it my wifes fault.
Why ? I'm not really sure, I think it was a mixture of power and control struggles - in me, wanting to regain the power I'd lost way back.
Making it her fault, put me in the right. It was a cruel game, but one I used a lot.

I recognise it now, and I don't do it anymore - I don't need to. But recognizing it was part of my recovery. And I made the choice to do that.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#67567 - 08/30/03 09:56 PM Re: pain and hurt
martin Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 229
Loc: The Good Earth
BB,

I'm hurt to hear that you are hurting. You seem like a very supportive and true friend, if he doesn't see it that way it is his loss.

People deal with pain in a multitude of ways. I think he must feel pained that he let you down. He is angry at himself and taking it out on you. Its not a very honest or effective way to deal with his problems.

Maybe what you said before when he thought you were angry at him just seemed that way to him because it was being filtered through his own self anger.

Dave is right as well. Being victimized does twist your view of others. The ones that are supporting us seem like enemies because don't feel worthy of that support. Its also a way of getting out of a relationship before you realize that you are to good for him--that would be the victims viewpoint at least.

There are so many possibilities, and really no way to know for sure. I've been going through the same thing myself and thank you for your support to me earlier this week.

Now I'm offering you my shoulder to cry on. I'm sorry, really. You will find someone. And in time you will come to peace with questions about this relationship.

Kinda cliche, I know. Wish I could say more.

You should move on with your life.

I wish you much peace and happiness,

Aaron

_________________________
Its times like these we learn to live again,
Its times like these we give & give again,
Its times like these we learn to love again,
Its times like these time & time again.
-The Foo Fighters

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#67568 - 08/31/03 02:14 PM Re: pain and hurt
stpbb Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 103
thanks again for being open with me. It really helps. I'm trying to just let go & part of that is letting go of the need to enter a conversation about this stuff. Getting the info from you takes away the compelling sense that I need to discuss it with him. Of course I know I won't find any resolution in talking about it with him since he is completely removed from my reality, meaning it would be an exercise in futility. But it really helps to hear some ideas. I can live with that without wanting to reach an understanding with him that obviously won't come.

He called again last night to tell me that he just wanted to be sure that he had mentioned that we are no longer friends. In his backwards way, a bit toungue in cheek, he was opening up the lines of communication by telling me that they are closed....at least we both have a sense of humor.

Without your answers about 'why' I would be completely baffled by all of this, but I think I'm catching on. And while I am basicaly done with this relationship I don't feel a need to return his nastiness with more nastiness.

-BB.


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#67569 - 08/31/03 04:55 PM Re: pain and hurt
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
BB
In any event of our lives that comes to an end we have to find some final closure, and when it's as hurtful as the end of a relationship there is very little chance of a good closure.

There's always something you wish you'd said, something you want to make clear to that person. And of course, some things you want to hear from them as well.

But if you walk away with your pride and dignity intact I think those things will soon pass.

I think you might already know the answers, but confirmation and closure would be nice.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#67570 - 09/01/03 02:08 PM Re: pain and hurt
stpbb Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 103
closure --yep, I think that would help with the grieving process & letting go. So here is MY personal list of things I wish he knew & understood:

-I loved you because I love who you are, not because of the lifestyle you promised me when we were planning to get married

-I held on to you when everything fell apart because I knew that the person I love was still there, just going through a huge amount of pain and suffering

-I let go when you wanted time away so that we could explore what there was out there for both of us.

-I came back because I still loved you & no one I dated touched my heart & soul the way you do

-I helped you pursue what was difficult to face because I thought it was the only way you would end the sprial of depression & that it would give you hope that there was something wrong DONE to you, not something wrong WITH you.

-I stayed then, because I knew that you had important work to do & that I could go on without telling you that you HAD to work on us. Eventually I thought we could figure out how all that stuff fit in with how we relate to one another.

-You leaned on me when you needed someone, and I didn't mind being that person -- I still loved you & just wanted to see you getting better.

-Now you are much more stable, much more solidly on the road to recovery & I have become the obligation, the unpleasant association, the excessive expectation...I don't feel that is fair to me

-I deserve love and acknowledgement of who I am. I am not a lesser person because I put your needs in front of mine for a time. I was not giving them up completely, nor was I denying their importance. I simply felt that I had the capacity to hold your hand & help you through the suicidal stage without expressing my own worries, concerns & fears to add to your pain at that moment.

-I will not continue to accept whatever behavior you want to follow. I won't accept things that make me feel unloved & unvalued.

-I have to walk away from this because my feelings are hurt & I can't tell you about it without recieving an accusation in return, which hurts them more.

-I wish you well on your road to recovery. I hope that we can talk together soon & reach an understanding about what has happened between us, but if we never do I hope you realize that my love for you was the strength that made me hold on to you, I didn't do it because I have self-esteem issues or don't believe I deserve better in life. I did it because I can see that there is a real problem in your life that you are actively working to progress through & I believe in you & I believe in your recovery.

-I still believe in that, but I won't be abused in the process. Intentionally hurtful remarks designed to stifle my concerns & feelings are abuse & I can't tolerate that.

-I am a healthy, open, loving, caring, woman who deserves love, kindess, honesty, caring and support. I expect that from the people who I keep close in my life.

-You also deserve those things & I wish & hope for you that you will find your way to that kind of life. I know I will because my only detour has been in trying to support you on your journey. I'm sorry you don't understand that about me, or about yourself. Soon, I hope, very soon, you will rid yourself of what is toxic & find joy and peace with those around you.

-Most of all, I wish you to find peace within yourself. Nothing that happened when you were a child was your fault, you don't need to be punished now for what happened then. They hurt you, but you are still here & you are a wonderful, funny, smart, attractive, talented, productive, insightful, warm human being. I hope you find that person in yourself and welcome him into your life.

-BB.


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#67571 - 09/01/03 07:44 PM Re: pain and hurt
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
(((((((((BB)))))))))

A TransAtlantic hug, and thank you for trying.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#67572 - 09/02/03 03:42 PM Re: pain and hurt
Freedom Offline
Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 164
Loc: US
BB.,

Good for you! Great job!

Quote!
-------------------------------------------
why does he want to make me into a bad guy?
-------------------------------------------

Perhaps that is the only thing that makes sense to him? That what he expects so that is what he creates. Otherwise, the others make some good points.

I have also seen the closed door that remains open. Words contradict actions. I have no idea what to do with that at the moment.

I am glad you ar looking at yourself and after yourself, and where you need to go. I have come to believe that that is crucial in being arounf SA survivors.

Proud of you.
Freedom.

_________________________
Life is moving on. AM I?

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#67573 - 09/02/03 06:06 PM Re: pain and hurt
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:



I have also seen the closed door that remains open. Words contradict actions. I have no idea what to do with that at the moment.

I am glad you ar looking at yourself and after yourself, and where you need to go. I have come to believe that that is crucial in being arounf SA survivors.
The guy I dated before my current BF had some kind of abuse issue. He was so mired in drugs and booze and denial that he never told me what was going on. He did the really weird "go away come here" thing. We dated for about 5 months and after the third month he barely talked to me, found excuses to avoid me, started putting me down, stayed out late, drove while drunk, was generally an all around jerk. I even suspected he was cheating.

After he dumped me he totally opened up like the next day - he starts calling me and emailing me daily. He barely had time for me for 10 weeks and then when he dumps me BOOM he's contacting me several times per day. Weird.

I figure, once someone says he just doesnt want me, that's it. I'm outta there. No matter if he keeps calling me. In fact, I asked this guy to leave me the hell alone. What he was doing was playing serious mind-fuck games on me and it was starting to impact my mental health. It sounds like the situation with your ex may be heading that direction. Honestly, in that situation you are better off just going cold turkey. It sounds scary but cold turkey is the most compassionate and humane thing to do for yourself.

It is noble to have compassion for what your ex has been through. My brother recently got out of a relationship where his GF was a SA and other abuse survivor (she is from a third world country where the atrocities that she has experienced and witnessed would make your blood curdle). However, my brother for years justified her behaviour because of the abuse she'd been through, and catered to her every whim and demand. This took a huge toll on his health and self esteem. After 3 years the relationship fizzled... After he got some perspective he started realizing that no matter what she has been through, NOTHING can justify the treatment that she subjected my brother to. My brother had a hard time getting out of this relationship due to the abuse issues we both suffered at the hand of our father. My brother's ex had gone through so much that she just didnt know how to trust and love. And this sounds like the case for your BF.

Its just bizarre to see someone who in some aspects of their lives are such good people - funny, interesting, compassionate, but when it comes to being that way in a relationship they just can't do it. They are in fact the total opposite of the person you see in other aspects of their lives.

And you start to wonder all the "what ifs" - what if he gets better, what if I see him on the street in 10 years happily married (i saw another ex boyfriend, his wife and newborn son last year at a friends wedding.. talk about lack of closure.. but 10 years passed since that break up and I have to admit that time DOES heal!) but I digress...

I can guarantee, as someone whos' had her heart smashed royally a few times, that closure WILL come in time. You won't always feel this way. You are hurting now so it is logical that you will be intensely seeking that closure as a means to stop the pain. It will come in time. It is the hardest thing in the world just to "be patient and let time pass and heal you" when you are hurting. I have been there. I think we all have been there. Its just amazing one day you wake up and you just dont feel so bad. And that is a great day. And that day will come for you!!

You can be sure of one thing - no matter how you clicked with your ex and how much potential you saw in him and in you as a couple, any future could just not unfold until he does some serious work on himself and his life and his ability to have and want healthy relationships. And there is nothing that *YOU* can do about that. It does suck that the SA is the cause of all of that. Amd the fact that he suffered SA is not his fault. But he does have a responsibility to himself and to others not to let what happened to him become an excuse to treat others like crap.


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#67574 - 09/03/03 02:46 AM Re: pain and hurt
stpbb Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 103
Funny thing -- I've been reading these posts & thinking about this in between phone calls from friends & my sister who are all expecting babies soon. It is amazing what a little perspective can do.

Thanks to all of you for your comments and support. I am having a hard time accepting this -- I guess I have been stuck in denial for some time now, watching him make progress, hoping for that progress to impact the relationship dynamics, & then being disappointed time & time again when it just wasn't quite there.

He'd made some little efforts though, enough for me to maintain a thread of hope. But this latest scenario pretty much blew out that little flame of hope.

You're right that this isn't healthy for me -- I can see that there is no way through this together, because in his world there is no together. I can't simultaneously continue participating in such an unhealthy dynamic & create the kind of world & future I want the new little people coming into my life to be a part of.

PAS, I think you are right about going cold turkey. I have tried the kinder gentler approach & he just keeps zapping me. I think all of you have brought really helpful insight as to the 'why' of this, but I KNOW I am not hurting him, so how can I even converse within that reality? It really helps me to see why he might construct his interpretation that way -- helps me see how his reality could be so far from mine -- and that helps me to see how unhealthy it is for me to even participate in a dialogue at this point.

I can also honestly say that I don't know how I would be coping with this without your support & understanding. This dialogue IS healthy & very helpful. I really appreciate your personal examples as well. The story about your brother's ex really struck a chord with me, PAS, because I have felt that way. At the same time, it seems like my ex bf is actively placing himself in unhealthy situations. Probably because, as several of you have pointed out, his viewpoint is so negative he projects & expects negativity & that people will treat him poorly.

As for my compassion or understanding of the underlying SA issues that are causing this...well, my view is that he is still living his life as a victim. Philosophically, I think being a survivor is a choice, but no one chooses to be a victim. It is like the argument that all poor people have the opportunity to pull themselves up & find financial success. There are wonderful success stories & there are examples of poor choices, but life is unfair in what it deals out. I would never deny that there is free choice & that a victim CAN become a survivor, but how can you choose to be a victim if you don't see how to live life freely & joyfully? You can only make the choice if you know and belive it exists. I think part of being a victim is the inability to see that opportunity. You just can't tell a starving family in the inner city that if they only made better choices they'd have a house to live in, a good income and a college education for the kids -- you have to make opportunity available, visible, possible. At the same time, if this was a financial issue, I'd also have a limit of how much of my own resources I could offer him before it would damage my ability to care for myself.

But I'll always be one to give the drug-addicted, mentally-ill veteran on the corner a bottle of water & a sandwich when I have the opportunity. Because I think it is cruel to say it supports the system of his oppression to deal with his need today.

Call me a sucker, but I'm not gonna change.

-BB.


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