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#67521 - 11/22/06 10:30 AM breaking piont ... no apology ... do they ever tak
selene Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 221
Loc: midwest
.

_________________________
"And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye." ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupery from The Little Prince

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#67522 - 11/22/06 10:56 AM Re: breaking piont ... no apology ... do they ever take any responsibility?
soapy bubbles Offline
Member

Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 332
Loc: london
I'm sorry to read about this latest episode in your relationship Selene.

There is NO excuse for violence - that applies to survivors too. It's just not acceptable.

Your husband obviously has huge issues to deal with and you're showing an enormous amount of support and understanding for him, but if he's not at the point yet where he's ready to be honest with himself (let alone you) then you don't have to take this shit from him in the meantime.

I'm not saying you should split up, but maybe a bit of time-out?

My thoughts are with you
SB x

_________________________
"Though we travel the world over to find the beautiful, we must carry it with us or we find it not.” ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

“Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission.” --- Eleanor Roosevelt

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#67523 - 11/22/06 12:27 PM Re: breaking piont ... no apology ... do they ever take any responsibility?
Hopeful wife Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 14
Hi Selene

I'm sorry to read what you are going through. I haven't followed your story completely but from what I gather your husband has been acting out with men. My husband made a similar disclosure (after being caught)in January this year. It may interest you to read some of my initial posts and the reply's. You may also want to look for the posts of a member named Rayne who went through the same thing just before I did.

If you want to P.M. me at some point, please feel free.


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#67524 - 11/22/06 01:31 PM Re: breaking piont ... no apology ... do they ever take any responsibility?
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
Selene,

I am so so sorry you are going through this, it sounds awful indeed.....


I have no idea what to advise you should do, that's got to be a personal decision and such a difficult one at that.


I too feel that my bf has not really shown remorse for his behaviour, although it doesn't really compare to what your husband's been up to. It is true and important to affirm the abuse was in no way their fault, and also the acting out caused from this, BUT just like you say, they should still take resonsibility for the behaviour, show some understanding of what we're going through etc. I feel my bf tends to be more sorry for himself and takes any need on my part for understanding of some need to be reassured/appologised to as if i am shaming him in some way. I have NEVER put shame into the picture and it's not the way I feel about it at all, I just feel decieved, lied to and unsure of who I'm living with. I feel like you do, that he tells me things he thinks I want to hear in order to avoid difficult or uncomfortable situations between us. Consistently I have felt that I'm not being given relevant details about things which affect my right to make my own decisions based on the truth.(that has also applied to our children)

I can only say that I hope your husband becomes less abusive to you and to take very good care of yourself and know that NONE of this is in any way your fault. The person who has been decieptful has to own that responsibility, regardless of the influences which caused it. In my own personal experience of being confused, lying etc, I never expected less than that from myself.......maybe it's different for men? Or different for each individual?


Take good care,


peace
Beccy


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#67525 - 11/22/06 08:41 PM Re: breaking piont ... no apology ... do they ever take any responsibility?
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Selene, I hate to read of any physical meanness going on... I know emotions are high and this is so hard to deal w/ for both you and he.

As for his lack of remorse, the only thing I can say is that I KNOW his thinking is distorted right now....until a survivor gets very far along in healing, they simply really cannot see the pain of another human being b/c they are so covered up in their own. I believe this is something that you will have to be very patient about - his thinking is distorted, Selene, so he cannot accurately assess things as you can.

He may be trying to push you away since he probably feels he doesn't deserve you anyway. This morning I told my husband, "I don't care how much you push me away, how crappy you treat me, I'm not going anywhere." Now, there is a limit of course to what I will take, but I'm reassuring him that I'm here through this whole ugly ordeal, however long it takes. WHen he pushes me away it hurts like ____ and makes me wonder if he even still loves me or if it's worth it....but I have to remember he's in a VERY different place than I am, and sometimes survivors will sabotage good things in their lives b/c they don't believe they deserve them anyway, or maybe they think we will leave first so they go ahead and withdraw. It's a push-pull, and very childish.

My therapist suggested perhaps there could be some "borderline personality" traits going on in my husband and told me to read up on them. They are very push-pull too.

No, don't let him be physically mad at you. It's ok for him to be angry or whatever but NOT ok to touch you in anger. It is time to draw that boundary RIGHT NOW.

Get him a punching bag maybe. I've already envisioned one hanging in our garage one day in case my husband ever needs one to vent on.

Again, I'm sorry for the volatile rollercoaster. You are going to be the only consistent one here. It is like "tough love" of a teenager. One of you has to be the strong, consistent one and it has to be you. I know it is hard. Give it some more time....remember, don't make any big decisions about leaving while in the midst of such high emotions or distress or depression.

And to me, yes, it's hard to know of such infidelity - but 5 or 500 times it's all the same really. YOu cannot get caught up in the number. It stinks but doesn't help anything.

YOu're still in the crisis stage. You will have severe ups and downs and then it should level out a little, but not for a while. I've been on and off in crisis stage since 5 months ago, and it is just now starting to level out a little. Progress is slow so it's easy to lose sight of it. I still think y'all have a great chance of surviving this together. Remember, emotionally he's like a little kid and WILL say things that will hurt you, but BEHIND THE ANGER IS ALWAYS SADNESS AND FEAR. He'll push you away to see how committed you are to him, to see if you are really willing to get through this w/ him. I cannot imagine that he'd really want to lose his family. Again, his thinking is distorted too. I think it will be a while before he'll have clarity of thought. Hang in there.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#67526 - 11/22/06 08:44 PM Re: breaking piont ... no apology ... do they ever take any responsibility?
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Selene, also my therapist said I will get the brunt of my husband's negative emotions because I am closest to him. It's just the way it works. Lucky us!

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#67527 - 11/22/06 11:57 PM Re: breaking piont ... no apology ... do they ever take any responsibility?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Selene
After 5 years of acting out with the same guy I can fully understand this statement -

Quote:
and i have to say that i'm starting to not quite understand how he can NOT be gay and do this level of acting out ... if anyone knows, please let me know ...
Is he gay? That would depend a great deal upon the emotional involvement they have / had.
I do know of a survivor that has acted out like this with a gay man that loved him, but he felt nothing and displayed nothing, they never kissed or hugged etc. Fot the survivor it was purely sex / acting out. For the gay guy it was very confusing !

Quote:
... but, first of all ... he has been getting angry at ME since this all came out ... every discussion is angry on his part at some point
Attack is the best form of defence.
He's in deep shit here, with few legitimate excuses other than the csa. You want some answers, assurances and all that kind of thing, and right now he hasn't got them.

Quote:
he seemed desperate for it to be a "good" day and went out of his way to be calm and loving ...
But he realises that this is one of the things you want to see, and something he knows how to do so he makes a special effort.

Quote:
and he refuses to take responsibility for anything ... yes, of course i've made sure to tell him over and over the abuse wasn't his fault ... that is SO clear from me ... and i've told him that whatever he's done is ok and that we'll work though it and everything ... but that nasty, mean tone of voice is just too much on top of everything else ...
Maybe he still hasn't got his head around it all yet? It's still early days, he's angry with himself, and very confused.
Back to "Attack is the best form of defense"

Quote:
... we started arguing and pushed each other tonight ... i reached out and pulled his hair ... then he grabbed me by the hair, threw me down on the bed and punched me in the chest ...
Whoever started it, or did whatever. Fighting ain't gonna help either of you.
I'm not making making ANY excuses, but he's scared shitless right now. He's in a corner, and he wants to get out.

Quote:
... so how much are we supposed to take from a survivor? ... what the hell is going on in his head? ... how can anyone be to detached from how what they do affects anyone else? ... i feel like he's handed me all the responsibility and is just sitting back being an asshole ... and feeling just fine doing it ...
He might be feeling fine about, and if he is then good for him. ( NOT FOR BEING AN ARSEHOLE THOUGH ! )
The chances are he's struggling with the crap inside his own head right now, your head is probably as much of a mystery as his own.
"Feeling fine" - is possibly more a feeling of "feeling relieved" that the secret's out and "something is happening". Even if it's confusing, painful and to 'normal' people "out of control"; to him that "something is happening" feeling can be better than before?

Quote:
have i given so much and accepted so little in return all these years and been so "understanding" that he feels nothing at all about me? ... or that he's entitled to just act however he wants?

... i'm truly becoming convinced he's trying to get me to make him leave for good ... and i'm just about ready to kick him to the curb ...
Maybe he hasn't got as far as being able to arrive at rational decisions yet?
And "yes" he very possibly is trying to make you kick him out.
That's 'victim thinking'; he thinks he doesn't deserve you, or indeed anything good. But because his csa was a victims experience that's what he knows, it's what he learned as a boy.
So for the ultimate victim experience he could engineer the situation until you throw him out.

Quote:
but also he just seems to say whatever he thinks i want to hear OR he only repeats a phrase i've said or he's read here or somewhere else ...
Give him a chance to process his OWN thoughts, don't feed him all the information, and don't try and do his work for him.
Encourage him to do it, listen to his thoughts and ideas. And even if they are crap, credit him with trying - then mutually discuss them.

Quote:
as usual, i know no one can help, but i just needed to vent ... i feel it all unraveling and i don't think i can put it back together again ...
Yeah, you will. But it's up to him to put his part back together again.

Quote:
... will he ever be a real adult and feel any responsibility for things he does?
mmmmmmm, this is a statement I could easily fall out with!
Will he ever become a real adult again? What is he now?
I know that the childhood we lived through shaped our adult lives to such an extent that we often have some behavious that would be considered "unacceptable" to other "normal and decent" adults.
Having sex with other men in toilets is way up high on that list of unacceptable.
But what drove the man you fell in love with, me, and so many others into doing this? Answer that, then decide his "adult" status.

The "responsibility" he probably feels is most likely tearing him apart. It's a very small step from responsibility to guilt and shame.
The hard part for us is finding the emotional tools to convey our feelings.

I'm not trying to be negative here, quite the opposite.
You are in a horrible situation that is something entirely not of your making. The guy you love was abused as a boy and the effects are now coming to light so you want to fix it. And that's perfectly right and natural, it's something my wife did and I'll be eternally grateful for.
I also understand that you're having a good rant because you're feeling so frustrated, that's ok as well. In fact it's good that you come here to rant, and ask for support and advice ( and I know how committed you are )
Having a good rant raises so many questions, and usually good honest questions as well, so please don't think I'm being hard on you again.

I think you realise perfectly that you're in for a rought ride for a while, we're not easy people to live with. But the adult you first loved is still there somewhere. Go get him ! ;\)

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#67528 - 11/23/06 04:12 AM Re: breaking piont ... no apology ... do they ever take any responsibility?
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
he hit you!go now! whats the hardest thing about your post seems to me that you feel guilty,thats b.s. he has no right to put you through his mindgames if he was a real man he would either get help or get out ,put the abuse aside for a minute,would you accept this crap from him if he wasnt a survivor?sorry if this sounds harsh but ,whats happening is so dangerous for you ,aside from possibly getting who know what disease from his friends ,if hes angry enough to hit ,its not a huge leap to angry enough to kill! i know this place is about support for survivors but when its your life i think somebody should say get the hell out of there . maybe that will force him to change ,if hes gonna fall apart without you ,thats not your fault . hes falling apart anyway , what hes doing to you is abuse plain and simple and its emotional blackmail to say he will fall apart without you. im a survivor,but right now i have no sympathy for him at all. please get yourself and your family safe k? adam

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#67529 - 11/23/06 12:39 PM Re: breaking piont ... no apology ... do they ever take any responsibility?
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I know that some people would rather be with "anyone" rather than be alone but.......................................................

well I sure as Hell would never treat you like that not to mention cheat on you. I agree with what Adam said all the way.


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#67530 - 11/23/06 03:35 PM Re: breaking piont ... no apology ... do they ever take any responsibility?
sis Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 195
Loc: Arizona
When any situation gets so out of control that fists or degrading words are used, it's time to really consider getting help or getting out. We as human beings, the decent ones, survivors or not, know right from wrong at a gut level. aLot of times i read posts here and i am inclined to respond but i don't. I think my words would be construde as harsh and too much reality for some. If someone is abusive to you no matter what the reason, get out, get him out, stop it. Wake up!! when i first read this post from selene a few days ago, i thought," maybe he is gay! But he is bisexual, period. If he is or isn't dosen't mean cheating is okay. This is something you didn't cause, your sorry that he was hurt, that you can't fix, and when things become abusive, you need to make it NOT YOUR PROBLEM anymore!! anyway, Happy thanksgiving, light and luv,Sis


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