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#67349 - 08/15/03 02:02 PM Re: Why stay?
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Man, am I there with you on this one.

Back in the good 'ole days, they used to say, "count to ten," before firing back or opening up with somekind of barrage of rockets and granades in verbal response.

I think that it could help me. I think that I'm on somekind of two nanosecond fuse.

"What did you say?"

And, instead of waiting for an explanation or response, I'm off to the races with rage in my heart and eyes and voice.

God, I must scare her to death.

My baby, my heartbeat, the love of my life, I must scare her to death.

I've never hit her, but my words must pierce her heart.

We did get some counseling this past year and it was discovered that I can't argue some points and have to have some distance or I lose my self control. I have asked for and gotten some distance, sometimes, but Ranata is a much better debater than I am.

People didn't debate or argue when I was growing up. The fangs came out and it was a fight to see who could hit whose jugular first. I spent most of those times crying and wanting my family to stop the hurting and fighting.

Now, when I'm old enough to know better--I AM THE ADULT--but still stuck with some issues, I should really adopt the "count to ten" rule, before responding, instead of reacting like I'm being attacked.

OK, all together, now...1...2...3...4....5...I'm feeling more calm already.

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#67350 - 08/15/03 04:30 PM Re: Why stay?
Marcs friend Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/15/03
Posts: 16
Loc: Maine
why stay? why stick it out? after being lucky enough to find the right person to be with, why leave? A partner doesn't fall in love with An Abused Person. A partner loves a person who has been abused, along with everything else that has happened in his life to make him the person he is today. Is it so heroic for a partner to stay with someone who's been badly disfigured by a burn, or paralyzed by an accident or an attack? (It's not just physical - there are deep emotional scars that go along with that too.) It all becomes a part of the person. and the reason for staying is called love. pure, simple, unconditional. Acceptance. Understanding that at times we cannot understand, but trying anyway, because we care. Knowing that sometimes we will be pushed away (due to your anger, disgust, fear, ??), but hearing the young innocent child crying out "please stay with me and hold me" at the same time you are saying "go away." It's not about lying or being secretive by hiding what happened - it's about being afraid that if someone important to you knows what you did (or, more accurately, what was done to you), they will know that you are bad and will leave you. There is so much courage and trust involved when you finally decide to share what happened - they need to appreciate that telling a partner is so hard -and brave - to do. If they love you, they will stay while you work through the demons - and maybe help along the way. When someone is working on recovery, a partner can feel abandoned. Life becomes all about the victim. Well, it has to be that way. The abused person is the one who needs to heal. It's his turn now. But there are things partners can do. They can listen when you want to talk, sit silently when you want to not talk, see that you get home safely when you drink too much, sit beside you while you're in this web site, let you have fun, tell you that you will be OK. While abuse is a horrible thing, it's not a reason to walk away from someone you love. Please give yourself a break - and try to allow yourself to be loved.


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#67351 - 08/16/03 03:38 AM Re: Why stay?
Polly Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 4
Loc: uk
Why stay?

  • Because I still love him
  • Because he is still the only man I have ever loved
  • Because he is still my hero
  • Because he is still kind
  • Because he is still good
  • Because he is still strong
  • Because he is still sensitive
  • Because he is still a good husband
  • Because he is still a good father
  • Because he is still a good provider for his family
  • Because he still likes teddy bears
  • Because he still makes me laugh
  • Because he still makes my heart skip a beat when I know I am going to see him
  • Because he's still sexy
  • Because he still cares about people
  • Because he's still patient with me
  • Because he's still my best friend
  • Because he is still everything to me....


Just because he's in a bad place at the moment dosen't mean that he has stopped being any of the above.

I will wait until he comes out the other side.

Because he's worth the wait.


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#67352 - 08/16/03 05:32 PM Re: Why stay?
MM Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/28/03
Posts: 59
Loc: Canada
I can relate to that too. Iím too way demanding and needy and even when my gf is tired or not feeling well, I still want her full attention and feel betrayed when she canít be with me that moment. I know thatís wrong and Iím being selfish, but I still do it.

I have asked myself many and many times: why a woman like her would stay with a man like me? Iím still trying to figure that out and fully understand it, but the only answer I can get is that she loves me and thinks Iím worth it. And Iím working hard to keep that way.

Joe, your wife does love you too, maybe she just needs some time for herself, I know my gf needs it and doesnít get it so often. All this shit is much more difficult for our wives than it is for us.

Take care; youíve been a good friend to me.

Mark


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#67353 - 08/16/03 05:56 PM Re: Why stay?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
How about this, I'm quoting myself now !

Quote:
Oh I'm guilty of doing that ! All too often I'm so wound up in my own loop of problems I miss what's happening all around me.
And I know how much it pisses Linda off. So I feel guilty, which makes me worse, and on it goes.
Linda sees it as well, and hides her 'pissed off' mood from me so I don't get upset. But eventually it breaks out.
This problem came to a head last night, and Linda expressed her point of view quite strongly.
I spend too much time and effort on 'myself and other survivors'

She doesn't want me to stop, or even ease off. She wants me to devote the same effort into our relationship. And I have no argument against that.

She fully appreciates that what I do, I need to do, and she often says "do whatever it takes, I'll support you"
But, she deserves the same, if not more, effort in making our relationship better. Let me correct that - WE deserve..........

It's so easy for me, and I think many other survivors, to get wrapped up in ourselves at the expense of thos we love. We take our loved ones for granted, we shouldn't.

I had a good ass-kicking last night, and I have to admit I deserved it.
But in my defence ( here come the excuses ;\) )
I have to say that I / we are still learnig a lot. There's a whole lot of things to do with 'relationships' that are either bent out of shape or were never learnt when I was growing up.
And 45 + is a hell of a time to begin learning.

So I took my ass-kicking in the way Linda intended it, as a reminder that I have to continue moving forward.
It's no use me thinking that because I no longer act out, I fantasize / masturbate less, I have fewer flashbacks, less depression and all the other positive things I've achieved; that I can sit back and think "if this is as good as it gets, that's ok by me !"

If I can get this far, why the hell can't I get all the way ?
I couldn't think of good reason why not, and neither could Linda.

Onward to the future then.

Dave \:\)

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#67354 - 08/17/03 08:52 PM Re: Why stay?
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
wish my wife could come here and put in her two sense worth, since she's the one who couldn't "deal with it" anymore and then I moved out to make it "easier" on her and the kids....

Peace

Orodo

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#67355 - 08/17/03 11:38 PM Re: Why stay?
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
ditto to what Orodo said.

maybe not. i don't know, i'm confused.

_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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#67356 - 08/19/03 12:02 AM Re: Why stay?
stpbb Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 103
I wanted to reply to the last two responses because I think this hits on why we need to have the family & friends forum here. The interpersonal issues affected by SA are huge. In my own case, it has been a real struggle to understand what are SA issues & what are really issues between us.

The struggle to offer him support & care for myself is not easy. If I am hurt because he quits talking, for example, even if I understand that these are his issues there has to be a line somewhere to keep myself healthy. It really hurts & while I may know that it isn't about me, it is still personal. He isn't not talking to everyone, just to me.

When the SA first became apparent, we woke up together & I tried to give him a hug. He yelled at me, called me names & ordered me to let go. Up until that time we hadn't had any major issues -- just the typical disagreements about dinner in or out or that kind of thing. Nothing of any consequence. Neither of us was aware of the SA, so it was terribly shocking to see him suddenly nasty for no apparent reason. He left the room & I cried. When I finally came out, he was completely unaware of what had happened. I told him & he didn't remember any of it.

In retrospect, it all fits & makes sense given the abuse. At the time it didn't.

I guess what I am saying is that I don't think there is a clear-cut way to handle things. If he did that every day & I lived with him I'd probably think it best to move out just to protect myself. Not because I think he intentionally hurt me & not because I don't wish from the bottom of my heart that I could take away the pain he's going through, but because I could be hurt & I have to be OK or I can't support him at all. How can he control it if he doesn't even know it is happening? It isn't about my feelings for him or his intentions at all.

The day-to-day stuff can be much more subtle than that. Nowdays, I think that as he struggles he creates more distance just because he doesn't feel in control & he needs a sense of control to go through the healing process. From my end, it feels awful - he doesn't want me around except when he wants me around. I end up feeling really rejected & useless.

I guess I'm trying to say that the love a partner feels isn't necessarily less just because they make steps to have some distance from the SA. Also, my family & friends think that he is mean and uncaring. So my support structure is in favor of me getting him out of my life completely.

I haven't made that radical of a change in my relating to him, but I have pulled back considerably. Even if I love him & know it is SA causing the problems in the relationship, there is so little I can do to help. I do and have done everything I can think of. I don't think he is mean and uncaring, but he does seem to be incapable of recognising or addressing my needs within the relationship.

If his rage is directed at me, he has to deal with that. If he creates distance & turns warm/cold, he has to deal with that. If he can't talk with me about my problems at all, he has to deal with that. I end up feeling powerless because these are all issues he must face for himself. What good am I doing him by arguing about it or asking him to change? It just makes him feel worse. I am not a therapist & I don't know how to change those internal learned emotional responses that the SA created in him. He IS working on it & I hope that we will end up together after he gets through some of these problems. I'd love to hold his hand through the process -- many of lovingpartner's responses talk about ways of doing that -- but he doesn't want me to. Maybe he feels to exposed or maybe it is just not safe for him to show that kind of need. But whatever it is, in my particular situation I think giving him room to find his way is the best that I can do for him.

I sincerely hope that when he is ready to have someone else close again that we can work things out together. I love him more than anything & it breaks my heart not to be with him.

I feel anger & rage at his perp. I want to protect him from the people who he has let walk over him because of his low sense of self worth. I wish he could understand that love doesnt' hurt you like that. And I don't blame him for any of it -- he is trying to heal and move forward & that is all anyone can do. But given the way he treats me, there has to be a line between support and abuse & if I allow myself to be the sacrificial lamb to his abuse issues it isn't healing anything, just destroying my life & giving him something else to feel bad about.

Well, that got long winded. I hope my reply here doesn't seem too negative. I don't intend it that way. I just don't think that this is a case where the 'stand by your man' attitude is always the best course of action for the well-being not only of the individuals, but the future of the relationship as well.

-BB.


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#67357 - 08/19/03 02:56 AM Re: Why stay?
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
And now I am going to put in my sense worth -- for about about a buck three eighty,
Stand by your man -- even if its from afar --
I am the A FAR, woman right now who stands by her hubby#2
I have to, when he told me he had committed a sex crime, I had to go for ME, because I am worth every bit of ME and then some.
I have a twisted sense here being a survivor of SA myself along with all the other abuse that goes hand in hand with it. But in all retrospect my leaving has been the best thing for HIM with his healing process.
HOW? well first it caused him to "flood" his memories, then it pushed him to seek counseling for himself. Jeezus What a Freaking relief!
I thought standing by him was givng him space until he was ready -- well sometimes READY needs a big fat PUSH over the top. He did it to himself when he crossed the line from survivor to healing.
Rather EXIsting to Healing -- now we have our fights like we've never done before and me?
Well, I am learning to become...
To BEcOMe a Woman, a real stand by ME woman.
Thats all any of us can do is to choose our own battles and fight them on our own. Sure we can surround ourselves with the best possible support groups going, therapist , friends family etc. But each of us still have our own fucking night mares to deal with...
I geuss when my mother in law said "What ever happened to "stand by your man? " I had to SCOFF very loudly as it came spoken from a woman who had divorced her husband yrs ago and abandoned her children to a private school and left me and the new relationships to clean up their messes as well as the new ones WE created and got into...
So I stand from A far, not knowing how it will turn out, ... Hell if there is an ENd to Healing how come I'm not there yet?
I geuss most of me doesnt ever really want to ever "Heal completely or Get Over it" why? I'm afraid if I do, I'll forget and if I forget then WHo becomes the NEXT sacrificial lamb? MY KIDS? SOMEone ELEs's kids? not worth it to me, so I'll go on being the martyr in this process of learning for those who need to leaarn to treat victims , survivors, partners etc.... I'll be the experiemental rat ... I've paid the price of admission no one else need pay again.
I stand from A far , recognizing his goodness and the SOuL I married some 15 yrs ago. The one he never could see, but is beginniing to see thru the filters he has on right this moment. I stand and watch and sit beside him at times as he "gets it" and we celebrate a break thru, and I stand from a far and praise God I am thru the worst of my own the bullshit from during the healing.... hell maybe there is more worse down the line I dont know... but I am not afraid of "IT" anymore.
I'm happy FOr him when he has a good day, and sad when his days are long and tedious -- yet no different than if he had not been abused either. Damn it, the abuse has made it harder but it HAS made the celebrations that much SWEETER too....
I know I am rambling.... but not sure where this is coming from other than, I stood close by and he didnt heal, when I left he began to Heal... so maybe I was toxic? NO, not toxic just an excuse for him for the time so as not to have to work his own bullshit from the abuse.
Absurd as this may seem I am glad he is finally FEELING HIS OWN PAIN and not mine, and Finally feeling HIS OWN SUCCESSESS not mine...
so from A far I have done more good than bad for him...
and yet there are the lonely nights and sometimes days when we need each other and we remain a phone call away during those times ... we bring truth to the old song
"I'll come running"... and we do
With best Love and Peace to Fill us All
Sammy


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#67358 - 08/19/03 11:05 PM Re: Why stay?
LovingPartner Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 26
I know a lot of my responses incline toward being there for your partner and holding his hand, but sometimes that doesn't always work. There are times that hubby wants time alone and times that I want time alone. So we give that time to each other. I walk beside him and hold his hand because that is what he wants, and often needs. Many of the survivors here have expressed the need or desire of a supportive partner or friend, and that is what I encourage. (It seems to be the case for many survivors.) If not walking the long road with them step by step, to a least let them know you're there if and when they feel they need you. Everyone needs time alone at one point or another. When hubby or I want time alone, we try not to take it personally. I know sometimes that is hard to do, especially when we are hurting. But love is just as strong as hate and pain. . .


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