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#66999 - 11/08/06 08:08 PM whats going on?
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
i come to the f and f forum ,cause i want to see what its like for people who have someone to be with instead of having to having to try to deal with this stuff alone. but what i read here sometimes makes me wonder ,most times makes me mad and at this time scares me. cause what i see happening over and over here is people who are good enough to put up with an abuse survivor ,posting things that sound like they come from a survivor! i hear wives and girlfriends saying ,im not good enough,maybe its my fault,i should be more understanding ,i feel betrayed,i feel hurt ,i feel like shit!this scares me because for lots of you its like you have become a victim of the abuse too. but its being done to you by someone who should know better, your survivor.i see family and friends rearranging their whole way of life to try to make it easier for the survivor ,i see people putting up with things that are decietfull ,and sometimes downright mean ,being made to feel guilt and blame and making excuses for the person that hurts them ! being a survivor is hard ,its not like anything non survivors can know ,but it does not give a person the right to say ok i'll do whatever i want to and if you dont accept it then you dont care,and i know you wont abandon me because i have used my abuse to trap you .its obvious to a survivor when someone feels sorry for you ,and that can become something you want and need .i think it can also stop any chance of healing for some people ,you feel sorry for me ,i like it,and if i get better then whos gonna feel sorry for me?one thing i dont see is the guys comming to the site ,you give them posts and show them the site,but they never come here ,why? maybe cause someone like me might tell them to appreciate what they have.
i think the relationship should be treated the same as a normal one the same rules should apply. if he screws around id kick his ass to the curb ,if he hurts you dont just take it . you deserve respect as much as he does right?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#67000 - 11/08/06 08:57 PM Re: whats going on?
Iwanttohelphim Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Norway
Thank you shadowkid,

I have just posted a very angry rant on my own thread. I read your post right after- right now-

and I wanted to say to you that all people are not the same. No child deserves or provokes abuse. No human adult does. But human beings are all different and some are couragous and some are evil and some are average and some extraordinary.

You, I suspect fall into the couragous and extraordinary category. i have read your posts for somemonths now- even given one to my survivor.

I think one of the hardest things for me to understand as a CSA survivor myself, who has gone through recovery, was why my X couldn't. I still struggle with this and have decided that since I will never know the answer- I have to stop asking the question.

In trying to find the answer though, I landed on what you said in the last line of your post. To Paraphrase- it is just like a normal relationship. If he is abusive just leave. I have come to realize that my X is not what I thought he was underneath the abuse. I thought that the abuse was responsible for his behavior and attitudes. While in a large part, I still beleive that it is true, I also have come to accept that, even had he not been abused, he is still a selfish and awful human being. I can find no other explanation.

I know the road of a survivor because I am one. I know the denial mechanisms and traps we put people into before we get help- to avoid getting help- out of fear.

But there is something that is broken in my X and he is now evil. There is no other way to say it. he is no one's victim anymore. he is a predator. He is 38 years old so there is no excuse. Denial is no longer an excuse either because he has been confronted about his abusive behavior face to face by me- and several other women. Prior to that, he admitted needing help, asked for help on a few occations and when help was given, he rejected it, in all of it's many forms.

At a certain point, I have to protect my own life. At a certain point I have to stop caring whether or not his self fulfilling prophecy is tragic. All I know is that it hurts me and shatters my dreams.

He is not you and you are not him. You are working your recovery, and from one survivor to another, I can say, I am so very proud of you. I know what it is like. You are stronger than most people will ever have to be. You have been touched by god's hand.

I don't know why you and the other survivors here have been blessed in the ways you have. I am grateful for this post of yours. I am glad to know that people who love you are in the forefront of your mind and so is how you treat them. You are you and you are a unique individual and a marvel.

Thanks for noticing that we are abused by our survivors- because they certainly don't see it that way- and when they deny it, it hurts more. Thanks for this post that says- don't tale it, you deserve better.

The thing that hurt me most about my relationship with my survivor was that he abused me and blamed me for it. he wouldn't have to abuse me if I would behave. And it is not really abuse..I just don't understand how things are done or how he needs to have things done.

The thing that hurts me most about my own behavior was that I bought into the idea that is was all my fault and that I could never do any better than an angry, abusive, violent man who could see nothing but his own controlling needs.

Shadowkid,you are a blessing to this world. You are a tower of strength and you are one of god's "angels", don't you ever forget it and always be proud of the man you are, no matter how unfair and arduous the road for you to get there.

All my best,

Bunny


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#67001 - 11/08/06 09:36 PM Re: whats going on?
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
adam, I used to have dialogue with some of the women here, and sometimes you have to think that they are indeed survivors themselves.

Clashes are inevitable, but when you think that most survivors suffer from low self esteem etc., it is not impossible to think that a normal relationship is trying, even to the best of them.

Survivors dont know each other, they put up with it, and what may be strange to F&F is not strange to us, and vice versa.

If you had a gf who was hurt, she would probably do some cookie things that you dont understand, but male v female abuse it totally different just as the difference between different roles of each sex.

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#67002 - 11/08/06 10:35 PM Re: whats going on?
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Thanks Adam for your insightful post. I have to say - and this may sound crazy - I laughed all the way down the highway after I read it, just thinking of the absurdity of how we all come to sound alike, survivors, all of us. I wish so much I could meet you and all the others in person, just so we could sit around and look at each other, put a face with a name. Here we nonsurvivors are, trying to help survivors up out of the abyss, and some of us are getting sucked down in there ourselves. It's absurd. Your post is very true, I think ,and I realized this morning that I have been walking on eggshells pretty much my whole marriage, just trying to make my husband, who has probably always had some form of depression, happy. And I used to do the same around my dad who had depression....always trying not to make noise or disturb things....keep things neat....Just realizing this today. Walking on eggshells has enabled my husband to continue on without seeking help. I am no longer going to try so hard to please him in those ways - he can't be pleased since he is depressed. It doesn't matter what I do, I can't make him happy. I just realized this! The other day he said, "I don't know, maybe I need to start over, quit my job..." Once again he is looking to change external things instead of looking inwardly at himself, where the TRUE PROBLEM lies. I NOW KNOW THIS AND IT IS EMPOWERING. I hope I can convey it to him but if he never listens then I guess we'll see what his rock-bottom is. That is sometimes what it takes for a person to seek help. Thanks again for your post.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#67003 - 11/08/06 11:00 PM Re: whats going on?
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
adam, is trying to say, we have had enough of fighting, and would be so glad to meet someone like you guys, and I do too, but it is like taking in rescued animal.

Without the fuss \:\)

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#67004 - 11/09/06 12:39 AM Re: whats going on?
Iwanttohelphim Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Norway
Ste and Adam,

When you are far enough along in your recovery to be able to be in a committed relationship and it is GOOD FOR YOU, you will find one. The past issues will be under your control and they will not interfere. There will be some little things here and there, but the fact that you will have moved on and into another phase of your lives will absolutely in the most joyus and unforseeable way possible, make the past..treally the past.

It will be your reward for working on yourselves and in so doing, be able to find healthy partners. Women who are in their own right, healthy and individual and strong and bright. That is what is waiting for you at the end of the recovery road. You will get there. I just know it.

You will no longer be "rescue" animals, but decorated warriors returning home.

hugs,

Bunny


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#67005 - 11/09/06 01:09 AM Re: whats going on?
Iwanttohelphim Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Norway
Quote:
Originally posted by reality2k4:
but male v female abuse it totally different just as the difference between different roles of each sex.

ste
Ste,

I want to add something here as food for thought.

I peer counci men who are abused by their wives. They have been hospitalized, falsely arrested, thrown out of their homes, removed from their children, berated, belittled, emasculated, and emotionally and verbally abused in every way that is possible.

The myth that man on woman abuse is different than woman on man abuse, is just that- a myth. It is worse because the men are usually subscribing to the same myth- as are the police- and the courts- women don't abuse. A man can take it. he can just leave. Men are also humiliated to admit it and don't ask for help. Men are turned away from shelters..because they are for women. The local DV gotlines are unhelpful at best.

Abuse is abuse is abuse. It is immaterial why we abuse. If we abuse, we are abusers. Period.

Survivors who abuse us, just like any other type of abuser, have one thing in common: The inability to introspect and no emotion regulation skills. They all- every single abuser (excluding the sociopath)- do it for one reason. To get an emotional fix.

The excuse "I'm scared to lose her" "I have self esteem issues" "I have trust issues"- it's the "abuse excuse" "and all of this is because I was abused". It is BS. Total BS. There is no excuse to treat another human being this way, no matter how badly we were abused as children (I was CSA too).

The idea that we differentiate between the sex or age of the abuser is part of what keeps us trapped in the places we are in. It is time to say, enough is enough. Abuse is abuse and there is no justification. Because that is all this really is, a justification.

Men suffer the same trauma experience as women do. Men lose just as much in terms of self esteem. Men can not "take it" better than women.

Getting our immediate emotional needs met by the various methods which are abusive reflects on one thing only- that we are still emotional children and we have no empathy for anyone else. It is selfish and unacceptable. It is abuse. Abuse feels just as bad to a man as it does a woman and men are at a distinct disadvantage because they are less likely to be believed as well as they can not fight back when being physically attacked- they are conditioned not to do it and they know they will cause more damage then they want to- even just to get away.

It is very confusing for a man to be abused by his SO- because no one ever told him it could happen. How's that for a reality distortion?

Just food for thought.

Bunny


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#67006 - 11/09/06 02:06 AM Re: whats going on?
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Yes, being in love with a survivor is hard. Yes, sometimes, maybe a lot of times, the guy you love canít love you the way you want him to. Yes, sometimes he shuts you out just like he shuts out the rest of the world when he can. No, he is not allowed to be abusive. No, he is not allowed to make you feel like shit. No, he canít hide from you all of the time if he wants to be with you. No, he canít think only of himself if a relationship is what he wants.

I believe that most of the men on these boards and elsewhere know all of these things and try very hard to turn their lives and ways of thinking around so that they can be healthy people, able to be in love with a healthy woman.

My b/f doesnít come here because heís not prepared to. Heís is just coming to grips with what happened to him; he can not deal, yet, with the fact that itís happened to others. He feels the pain of other people much more profoundly than he feels his own. He still isnít comfortable with me coming here because he doesnít feel I should be affected by something so horrible as csa. Thatís silly of course, since I deal with it all the time, in the flesh, with him.

The men here and my b/f are working so hard. They are facing demons that destroyed their young lives. They go to therapy, they read books and they live with lack of sleep because of the nightmares. They are learning that they are men and they are learning how to be men. The perps in their past took a years long learning process away from them when they stunted their emotional growth. Now, they are grown up; they are emotional children in menís bodies. Relationships are foreign because the last one was beyond disastrous and destroyed their ability to trust and caused nothing but hurt.

In we come with our love and naivety. Our guys, the ones who want it, see something beautiful and they want it. A relationships starts, but it quickly gets too deep for them to handle because they plain and simple donít know how. We start to wonder whatís up? At some point we find out and we talk, maybe a lot maybe a little. We decide to learn and we come here. We find that we are not alone in our own feelings and we find that there are many other men, too many, who know exactly what our husbands and b/fs are going through. We all share and we all learn. Some make it; some donít. Some relationships are worth fighting for, others are not. Only the two people in it know which relationship they are in.

My guy can see and appreciate love - it makes him so happy and so sad at the same time because while he sees its beauty, he canít feel it but he wants to, so badly he wants to. Heís cried to me, begging me to tell him what itís like. I tell him I canít do that, but if he looks in my eyes, heíll see all of it directed at him. He wants to feel my love so I stay and keep loving him and he keeps working away at that horrible wall.

Itís all very complicated.

Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#67007 - 11/09/06 04:14 AM Re: whats going on?
sis Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 195
Loc: Arizona
WOW!! great posts. for me no kind of abuse is okay for me. I am in the healing process for my own csa and i won't allow anyone to abuse me. I have done enough self abuse for a life time and if i can't abuse me anymore then i will be damned if anyone else can. No more victim from me. I have had a tiny glimpse of the happiness that i so desperately need and want since my healing started. i am in it for the long hall. i want more, more good. for now i am happy to say that i am selecting to stay single and not even date at this time. reading some of the posts at F&F are full of relatioship pain. I can't do it. Maybe when i can say that i am truly happy with my life and my progress and that i accept me with everything in my past as just another part of me and i am okay, maybe then i'll venture out to the world again. The diffeence will be that i will be wearing different glasses, the world would have changed because i did. Thank you for the empowering words. light and luv, Sis


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#67008 - 11/09/06 02:02 PM Re: whats going on?
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Bunny, men are at a distinct disadvantage in many ways, especially how authorities treat them.
They are not so well equipped as women are to talk about this sort of thing.

Men bottle it all up, and explode sometimes, and you are right, there is nowhere to go when things go wrong.

Abuse taught me empathy, and a greater understanding of life.
Its hard to find a woman who will take you on, with all the long silences etc.

Like it or not, the silence is needed, and not intended to look less emotional,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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