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#6696 - 08/10/06 03:11 PM Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I'm visiting my so called family this weekend.

My mother called and actually invited me over on Saturday. I should have probably said "no I have plans". I should probably just blow it off.

For some reason I think I'll go there and things will be different. Like maybe when I enter the room my father won't get up and walk out.

When I spoke to her I asked her why she was inviting me, she acted like it was a crazy question, said she thought I'd like to see my cousins, aunts/uncles, etc. That it had been a while. I said "Which uncle's are going to be there?" Of course she mentioned all of them except Kenny. I asked her if "her husband" minded if I was there... I shouldn't have asked that question because I didn't want her to think that I really cared... but she laughed at me, said "of course not."

So am I setting myself up here to get hurt again? Probably. Setting myself up for major dissapointment? Probably.

Thoughts on this would be helpful. Talking me out of going would be even better. A good punch in the head to knock some sense into me... that would be best! \:\)

Thanks,
Jay


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#6697 - 08/10/06 03:14 PM Re: Family
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
just expect the worse. go in prepared for your father to act just like he always has. i wouldnt expect any better, and then if he does act better it will be a pleasant surprise.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#6698 - 08/10/06 04:35 PM Re: Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Good idea!
I'll expect him to act like an asshole and he will so I won't be surprized.


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#6699 - 08/10/06 05:35 PM Re: Family
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Well, sarcasm aside, it's a pretty sound policy. You know how your father acts and, as unpleasant as it may be, you do know how to deal with it.

There's going to be how many people there? A dozen, perhaps more? Plenty of other people to talk to. If you can just not talk to him the whole time and talk with other people instead, I don't see (from my unconnected and uninformed vantage point) any reason you can't take this opportunity to see some of the people you care about, that still care about you. That, of course, is ultimately your decision and no one else's.

Is your father upset with you because you disclosed Kenny's abuse? Or something else?

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#6700 - 08/10/06 06:17 PM Re: Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I don't know why he's upset with me, he's been upset with me since the day I was born I think! He was okay for a while but very cold and untouchable, then he just ignored me, then the abuse started verbal at first then physical. I've always tried to figure out what it is about me that he hated so much, or why he never wanted me in the first place... that's what he always made it seem like. In the beginning when Kenny was just nice to me I used to think maybe he was my real dad and that's why the other dad didn't like me. But then again, he's my mothers brother... but then again, I saw him screwing my mother more than once... it's all really confusing and I hate to think about it. I never disclosed the abuse to either one of my parents. But I know that they knew it was happening... One day I woke up and Kenny was gone, the folks threw him out and said to never mention his name again... all I really knew is I was alone to deal with my father on my own. Once Kenny wasn't there to protect me (or abuse me) anymore things w/ the old man got real bad. He'd beat me and I had nobody to go to that could make me feel better (like Kenny could).
Fucker ;(

After the assault the old man totally wrote me off, was/is completely disgusted with me, won't talk to me, won't look at me, won't even be in the same room with me.
All of that all my life and I have no idea why...

Anyway, sorry go on and on like that. You're right, I haven't been with any of my family in a very long time, it might be nice to see some of them.

Really I'm just going for the free beer \:\)
Anyway, sorry I got off track there.


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#6701 - 08/10/06 07:18 PM Re: Family
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Don't be sorry - you were simply answering a question I asked. That's the problem with this board - everybody is SORRY for everything! ARRRRGH!!!

Anyway, back at the ranch...well, sounds like your father has got some serious personal issues. If I've got your "case history" right, I know which assault you're talking about. Perhaps, to this person's crudely simplistic and old-fashioned way of thinking, your being a victim of such a type of assault makes you "tainted" in his eyes somehow. Some people have a knack for judging others based on things those other people have absolutely no control over.

Seems to me your father's just a dick, plain and simple. If he's "written you off", perhaps it's best to just do him the same courtesy. Until, of course, that unlikely day when he's finally ready to do some listening.

'Till then, nothing beats free beer.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#6702 - 08/10/06 07:43 PM Re: Family
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
hey, how bout leaving the free beer alone for me? or at least be very careful about how many.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#6703 - 08/10/06 07:55 PM Re: Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Hey, sorry that I said I was sorry...
No I'm just kidding, I know I hate that too and catch myself doing it often!

Yeah, he's a dick and I agree that he blames me for what happened, like I asked for it. His problem, not mine right? I'll be trying to convince myself of that between now and Saturday.

Phoster - Leaving the free beer alone? you're kidding right?


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#6704 - 08/10/06 08:01 PM Re: Family
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
well, like i said, maybe just go easy.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#6705 - 08/10/06 08:04 PM Re: Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I know, I know, I'm an idiot! On one hand I talk about getting into AA, on the other hand I talk about getting the free beer!


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#6706 - 08/11/06 12:16 AM Re: Family
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Beer is cheap, but time it takes to heal from CSA (unless you're one of the "lucky" younger guys here) is not. If you're using alcohol to numb out the bad feelings, you're not doing yourself any good becuase you're delaying your recovery.

Don't drink just to feel better.

Plus, you'll be in a better presence of mind if you wish to pull your Dad aside and ask him what his deal is. Another thing, a drunk person is much easier to control in any given situation, let you're Dad do the drinking while you corner him with some questions about why he was a shitty Dad etc.

Just telling you what I would think of doing. I hope it goes well. You sure seem like a nice guy and it sucks that you had shitty parents.

Wow, having said that, I think that I just thought of a cool new post to put up.


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#6707 - 08/11/06 12:28 AM Re: Family
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

Returning to your first post, I wonder why on earth you would go. That is, what would you gain from such a trip? Can you think of anything at all? If so, then sure, go for it.

But if not...

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#6708 - 08/11/06 12:33 AM Re: Family
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

I wanted to deal with the alcohol issue separately. The whole weekend is shaping up as something that can only cause you harm and the drinks aspect is part of it.

If you are using drinks to numb out, then you are likely to really go for it this weekend and make a bad situation even worse. You are speaking to an experienced master here!

Hauser is so right - the drinks can only slow you down in your recovery. And that's not all: if you are seriously thinking you might need the help of the AA then you are adding a second big problem to the already formidable one of healing from abuse.

If you are trying to heal from a broken leg, why break the other one?

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#6709 - 08/11/06 01:39 PM Re: Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I don't know why I'm going.
I guess I don't want him to think I'm afraid to show up and face him. I don't want my mother going around asking if anyone has seen her "troubled" son. I haven't decided if I'm going or not.

The alcohol issue, fucking A, I don't even know where to start with that one. It's a real problem, I can admit that. Yeah I do it to numb out, I do it to deal with having sex sometimes, all the wrong reasons.

I'm just lost on that one.

J


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#6710 - 08/11/06 01:45 PM Re: Family
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
all in time my friend. yes, you need to work on your drinking, but i feel that would be easier once you've kind of adressed why you are drinking. i feel a lot of that goes beyond the abuse. a lot of that also stems from things with your father. in time you will put all that in its place. you kind of can't rush it, but you are aware that drinking is a problem for you, and that you need to work on it, so work on it. that is what all this stuff is, identify what you want to change, and work on changing it

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#6711 - 08/11/06 02:06 PM Re: Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Things with my father have nothing do to with me drinking. Not that I'm aware of anyway...

What makes you say that?


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#6712 - 08/11/06 02:20 PM Re: Family
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
i bet you'll find his lack of acceptance, understanding and tolerance bothers you a lot more than even a lot of the abuse. we have talked enough that i see a lot of hurt over being ignored by him, and when you are numbing away the pain, a big part of that pain is because of things with your father. that is my opinion, but i think if you talk it over with your therapist they are going to agree

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#6713 - 08/11/06 02:28 PM Re: Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
You're right, it hurts a lot... too much in fact.

Every shitty thing that ever happened to me happened as a result of how he treated me.

And I'd rather not even continue this conversation right now.

Thanks
J


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#6714 - 08/11/06 02:36 PM Re: Family
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

Quote:
I guess I don't want him to think I'm afraid to show up and face him. I don't want my mother going around asking if anyone has seen her "troubled" son.
As you can see, those are both very negative reasons for going. And if I may say so, pretty futile as well. That is, if you go or don't go, that won't affect your parents' ability or willingness to find things about you to pick at and complain about.

You are basically saying that if you go the trip is likely to cause you harm. Or if it doesn't, that will be because you were at emotional "battle stations" 24/7.

What a waste of a weekend.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#6715 - 08/11/06 02:44 PM Re: Family
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
I dont want you to go there if you arent ready. relax, and leave it alone. i know it hurts. one step at a time.

you know my history, and that my father wasnt right either. when someone doesnt love you as they should there is going to be a lot of pain and resentment there. when talking here becomes too much, you are right to step back. there are times and places to face that pain, and alone with nothing but the internet for help isnt the best time or place.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#6716 - 08/11/06 02:46 PM Re: Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
But what if I go and it's not like that, what if they're happy to see me for once?


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#6717 - 08/11/06 03:04 PM Re: Family
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

I'll just leave this with my other comment for you to think about later, when you feel you are up to it:

Quote:
The alcohol issue, fucking A, I don't even know where to start with that one. It's a real problem, I can admit that. Yeah I do it to numb out, I do it to deal with having sex sometimes, all the wrong reasons.
I don't know if I was an alcoholic, but if not I was pretty close. I didn't think I was having fun at a party until I had thrown up at least once, and there were times I was so wasted I went into convulsions. That's another topic, I just want to say I do know what alcohol can do to you.

Dealing with alcohol is in a way like dealing with abuse issues. You have to admit there's a problem, then you have to take the big step of doing something about it. There will be ups and downs, but it possible to get past this one.

Do you have a problem? It sounds like it. You are using alcohol to escape from other problems, even to the extent of drinking so you can have sex. The problem here is that gradually you will need more and more alcohol to get the same result, and eventually this will drive away people who would otherwise like to be around you. You wind up with a crowd who are into the same self-destructive behavior; if you don't mind falling into trash cans (one of my magic tricks) you wind up with friends who think that's cool too.

That said, I suspect you aren't an alcoholic yet. You are just using it for all the wrong reasons, as you say, and you can see it's getting into heavy territory. But why not admit you need help and ask for it? That's what you did when you came here, after all.

I'll stop here, because I don't want this to sound like I'm preaching. Just bear in mind that people who are alcoholics so often start out like you have, and then discover one day how cruel a master drinking can become.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#6718 - 08/11/06 03:21 PM Re: Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Admitting that I need help is like saying "He wins". At least that's what it feels like in my head.


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#6719 - 08/11/06 04:28 PM Re: Family
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
That "he wins" will be the least of your problems if you become physically addicted to alcohol. Alcohol withdrawl can be a BITCH. If you've been drinking every day for many years, you could well be addicted and not know it until you stop, when you get those shakes and cold sweats. It really sucks believe me, that's another reason not to drink every day, if that is, in fact, what you're doing.

Jay, go there, but don't drink. Confront your Mom and Dad and ask them why they let you get perped and let him get away with it. If they can't handle it, at least you'll know that you tried to talk to them about it. I sense that you need acknowledgment on their part for failing to protect you. I got my parents (one of them) to outright admit it, and I felt better after having the courage to bring it up.

Sometimes you gotta say "fuck it I'm talking to them about it right now" and just do it.

But Jay, I also don't know the true nature of your relationship with your parents, so my suggestions may not be appropriate for your situation, I'll leave that for you to decide.


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#6720 - 08/11/06 04:41 PM Re: Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Maybe I just won't go.

I drink every day.


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#6721 - 08/11/06 04:44 PM Re: Family
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
well, you might be in for a rough road if you quit cold turkey, how long you been drinking every day jay? Years?


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#6722 - 08/11/06 04:47 PM Re: Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Started when I was around 13 but wasn't every day, got to be more and more then started drinking every day for about the last 3 years or so.


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#6723 - 08/11/06 04:56 PM Re: Family
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Yeah ok. Ummm......if and when you decide to quit, you might be in for a rough road dude, seriously. I strongly suggest that you take a vacation from work while you do it. You might need help too, hard to say.


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#6724 - 08/11/06 05:07 PM Re: Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Stop it man you're scaring me


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#6725 - 08/11/06 06:21 PM Re: Family
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

I don't mean to pile on the bad news or gang up on you, but Hauser is saying what he does because it's the truth and that's what you need to hear.

Also a brief comment on this:

Quote:
Admitting that I need help is like saying "He wins". At least that's what it feels like in my head.
Actually the opposite is true. Saying you need help and asking for it is to refuse to be silenced any longer. It is to say that you and not the abuse will decide your future from now on. It's a way of saying that you refuse to allow what he did to hijack your life.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#6726 - 08/11/06 06:35 PM Re: Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I can't deal with this conversation anymore.


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#6727 - 08/11/06 06:47 PM Re: Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Actually... no, I need to talk about this.

When you say what you said about Hauser's comment, that's triggering to me so rather than reply and try to explain, freak out and cause everyone to have a real bad day, I'm going to ignore it.

I've never been able to just come out and ask for help. The "who wins" thing, I never thought about it that way before... I'll give it some thought.

Goddamn I would love to be able to just come out and ask for help, or confront the old man, or cry, or love something other than alcohol/drugs and my motorcycle!


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#6728 - 08/11/06 06:59 PM Re: Family
mphsrvivor Offline
Member

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 33
Loc: Tennessee
Jaysen, just my 2 cents worth about the "He wins" comment... Taking steps to better yourself is not saying he wins. It's saying he's lost. You have enough strength left in you to not give in. You are the winner in this case. It is you saying ou will not be a victim of the past any longer.

I hope you decide to do whatever's necessary for your safety and sanity. I wish you luck with whatever you decide to do. As far as the family reunion mentioned at the beginning of the post, maybe now isn't the right time for you to put yourself through something like that.

_________________________
---Patrick

"Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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#6729 - 08/11/06 07:12 PM Re: Family
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Thanks Patrick


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#6730 - 08/12/06 05:34 PM Re: Family
Jonathon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 74
Loc: New York
Jaysen . . . I just wanted to let you know that I went to AA to stop drinking without rehab and all of that . . . it was hard and weird, especially in the beginning. But I have learned to live without booze for almost 5 years now . . . a day a time, as they say.
I wouldn't show up for this gathering just yet. My tactic has been to show up for myself first and to deal with my family when I love and understand myself more and can see their shit as theirs . . . not mine. Best, J


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#6731 - 08/13/06 01:08 AM Re: Family
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

You don't owe anyone explanations here, just say what you want and how you feel.

On this:

Quote:
I've never been able to just come out and ask for help. The "who wins" thing, I never thought about it that way before... I'll give it some thought.

Goddamn I would love to be able to just come out and ask for help, or confront the old man, or cry, or love something other than alcohol/drugs and my motorcycle!
All these things take time Jay. You have made a LOT of progress since you came here, but give yourself time and be gentle with yourself. No one is keeping a tally on you or looking to judge you. The important thing is to stay on the path, but also to find your own pace and keep safe.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#6732 - 08/13/06 01:16 AM Re: Family
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Jaysen - only the strong ask for help! It took me decades to believe that!

Best wishes ..Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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