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#66637 - 06/06/03 06:18 AM Can Anyone Help Me?
Kiwiangel Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 2
Loc: New Zealand
Greetings from New Zealand \:\) This website is amazing, I wish I had known about it a long time ago due to the number of male friends whom I know are survivors of SA. I am a female survivor and am still working through lots of things but glad to be on the road to recovery.

Ok, I need some advice and would really appreciate any feedback anyone can give me.

I am not one for fleeting relationships, or instant attractions, due to my past I guess, but earlier this year I met a guy who just straight away we both fell something for each other. I am in my early 30's and he is 45. Within a couple of weeks of just being friends I had already sensed that he had at some stage in his life being abused. Just little things that I have seen in other guys I know but also I have researched the subject alot. Anyways, we ended up in a relationship which was a biggie for me because I hadnt had any kind of relationship with a guy for over seven years.

We had been together about three weeks when one night he just started crying, but he wouldnt call it that, he said his eyes were leaking, and i asked him what was wrong, and he said he just loved me so much and he never knew he could feel like that. I was very touched, a short time later we were talking and he told me that when he was 10 a Scout Leader used to give him money to perform sex acts on him. I didnt ask too many questions because i was very aware that i was the first person he had ever told this too since it happened 35 years ago, so i'm not sure whether my friend performed the sex acts, or the scout leader performed them on my friend. Either way it was abusive. I know it went on for a while, but dont know if it was months or years.

He is in complete denial about it having had any affect on his life. He has never sustained a relationship beyond 2 years and when he did marry it was to a woman who was pregnant by him but whom he had only intended to have a summer fling with , three kids and 10 years later they separated after a very loveless miserable 10 years together. there are so many dynamics to this i cant even begin to share them all.

We had an amazing connection, but i noticed after he told me about the abuse the odd litte change in him. One thing he loved about me was how knowing I was about things, and we discussed at length different aspects of his life, and ways they had affected him, but when ever he got uncomfortable he would just completely change the subject. He acknowledged that he was emotionally neglected in his marriage and that he was affected by it (i saw a lot of bitterness and anger in him, he denied both of these things)

Things were so amazing between us, we had moments here and there, because for me the whole intimacy thing after all i had been through was hard, but the connection was so strong that it was beautiful you know. He often made comments like, I've always wanted a homemaker, we are both really old fashioned, as in woman stays at home and homemakes, man goes out to work to provide. He said that his house felt like a home for the first time since he moved in. Then when i came back to where i have been staying, about an hour away from him within 24 hours he was totally pulling away from me, saying he thought he was too busy to have a relationship right now, his business is really successful and he doesnt want to do anything to disrupt it....etc etc and that he needed space. I was dumbfounded because it was the opposite of what he had been saying 24 hours earlier. He said he loved me.

Two days later we spoke again and he had been drinking (he drinks alot) and he was like a different person, very arrogant, conceited and not very likeable. Really bigging himself up, putting me down, saying things like, all my friends are good looking, i was class captain at school, i never had to go looking for friends they just flocked around me...you get the idea and i wondered who the heck i was talking too.

I had written him a letter which he only mentioned in passing because i had confronted him about a couple of things that he just wouldnt talk about. He said we did have something special and he didnt want to end just needed some space etc etc. I was freaking even more because when i first met him he was seeing a women (who he wasnt attracted to and didnt want to be with! but was sleeping with her) and this was all the stuff i had heard him say to her when he wanted to be rid of her to be with me. (i wouldnt start anything with him till he finished with her)so i challened him on it, and he said how dare i compare what he had with her, which was nothing, to what we had.

Anyway by that weekend i had sent him a letter saying it was best if we parted, he was uncontactable by phone etc. When i phoned him on the monday to get closure he hadnt even gotten the letter so was a bit taken aback by what i was saying, he said he really believed he wanted a relationship in his heart, didnt say with me just that he wanted a relationship. And that he needed time to think about it and he would get back to me. Well having seen how he operated with people in the two months i knew him, i realised that he would never get back to me. A few days later i was in his area visiting my grandparents and i went and saw him and said i felt it was best to end it face to face, he looked upset but had a huge wall around him, I said you have to stop pushing happiness away when it arrives and he looked like he was going to cry and said i know. He gave me the biggest hug and i thought he would never let me go. It was so hard for me cos i love him with all my heart.

Anyway, we said goodbye, he said to drop by anytime, and i drove off. I contacted him a couple of times, he was a bit cold, didnt want to talk, wouldnt discuss anything to do with us, and because i had gotten so close to his daughters we organised for me to come and spend the day with them. the day arrives and he phones and says he is out of town for most of the day. I finally caught up with them late in the day for half an hour and it was really strange. Usually they are all over me, by this stage we had been broken up one month and he had only just told them that week. (he told other people i had a full time job!) He was really guarded and speaking to me like i was a complete stranger which kind of hurt, i asked if i could stay but he was like, no i have a houseful of people arriving in an hour, so i just left and thats it.

I feel like i never mattered in his life at all, and he even intimated that he had had an eight week gap in his schedule so he thought he would have a bit of fun with me.

I know alot of his behaviour is normal for someone who has been through what he has (recognise all the patterns from myself!!) but he denies emphatically that it has affected him in any way. He is a real BLOKE, fishing, rugby, he's a builder, but also seemingly in touch with his feminine side (but i found that it was only a bit of an act)From what i can gather he has been lying to people about me as well, a couple of years ago a woman stalked him and i am worried he is telling people i am. Which is definately not true.

I know i cant help him, only he can face it, but how do i get over this guy when i am pretty convinced that what we had was for real. Is it likely he will come back at some stage or just completely wipe me from his mind and life, because of what he told me.

If you have read this far....well done and thank you. There is no one i know who understands this side of things and i just need some different perspecitves. Thank you so much for listening, and reading.
KiwiAngel x


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#66638 - 06/06/03 08:02 AM Re: Can Anyone Help Me?
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
The situation is not really the same, but the replies people made to this thread might help you:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002045

I hope that was helpful in some way.

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#66639 - 06/06/03 08:08 AM Re: Can Anyone Help Me?
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
there is nothing that you can do this will take many years only if he is willing to face things.

Sounds like he will keep going from relationship to rlationship to keep from getting hurt. Thats not going to work either. The drinking is just self medicating and will only make it harder to face what was done. It is too bad. He would have to show considerable change to show he could be in a relationship.

Keep looking, and keep him in your heart as a friend. He made need one one of these days.

MJ

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#66640 - 06/06/03 12:54 PM Re: Can Anyone Help Me?
doctorfrau Offline
Member

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 60
Loc: West Virginia (NOT western Vir...
Kiwi, I empathize with you.
It does make you feel as if you are a bit insane, doesn't it?... Was I "imagining" that we were close? Was this just a game? Was I hallucinating that connection between us? What happened? Who are you, and what have you done with my friend?

I got some similar treatment -- being offered brief glimpses of the "Man Behind the Curtain", and then the whole thing shuts down without warning. You try to keep up contact and all you get is back is coldness. Being made to feel like a stalker for just trying to understand and be a friend. It's extremely frustrating.

I'm new here too, so I have more questions than I have advice. Just thought I'd let you know that you can climb into boat with the rest of us - you aren't rowing by yourself. ;\)

_________________________
"...your choice, is what to DO with the time that you are given."

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#66641 - 06/06/03 01:43 PM Re: Can Anyone Help Me?
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Hi Kiwi,

I've been with lots of guys like yours--they could be twins!

Rather than directly answer your question of what to do about him, I will tell you what has worked for me. Maybe it will help.

KEEP THE FOCUS ON YOURSELF!!!!!

Quit trying to think your way through this.
It's like trying to rationally understand insanity. It's not that you are inadquate, it's just the two things don't go together.
Instead try to focus on your needs and wants, since you are the only person in this that you can change. Some questions I have asked myself:(it helps me to write them out?)

Why are you so enamored of someone who treats you so badly? What is it about you that this guy and his on/off again attitude is OK. It's really not OK, and I think you know that.
And here's a good one!

What would you be doing if you weren't obsessing over this guy?

But trying to figure him out is a dead end path.
Let's say you finally do understand the situation; that will not change a thing about it.

The drinking, the insulting behavior, the hot/cold nature of the relationship, the fact that everyone prior to you has been a problem (is nothing ever his responsiblity?) are all a familiar pattern to me.

Please put your needs first. For me, a survivor of sexual abuse, this kind of person is TOXIC to my well being.

You might say, well, fine, easy enough to say, but how do I stop the obsessive thoughts about him.

Just do it one day at a time--find a group of people who understand (like us) and ask for help, and when those thoughts come, turn your mind to something useful and productive for yourself.
It's not easy and it does require discipline. But it won't go away by itself. Time will heal if you can stop re-opening the wounds. Later with the help of therapist or spiritual adviser, you might find it helpful to explore your own role in this affair. Find out things about yourself that allow you to be treated in such an abusive way and THEN MAKE YOU WANT TO GO BACK FOR MORE!

Hope this isn't too harsh---believe me I speak as one who has suffered as you are now. And I know that without regular maintenance I will slip back into the attitudes that set me up for this kind of abuse.

One other thing......count your blessings.

This jerk could have married you before showing his true colors. How horrible could that be?

Just like his problems won't go away overnight, neither will mine or yours. But they will never go away if we are not willing to work on them.

Without help, we never get better, we don't stay the same, I always get worse.

Wishing you peace and gentle loving kindness,

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#66642 - 06/06/03 02:01 PM Re: Can Anyone Help Me?
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Hi Kiwi,
Your former boyfriend may be an SA survivor, but he is also a jerk. Sadly, you are probably better off without him. His behaviours sound typical of some SA survivors, but they are also typical of
some guys who are just plain assholes. Are you sure you are not excusing his behaviours because you are in love with him? The one redeeming feature he seems to have is that he is not using the SA as an excuse for his behaviour .... he doesn't need to, you are! Peace, Andrew
P.S. find someone nice, you sound like a lovely girl.


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#66643 - 06/06/03 05:33 PM Re: Can Anyone Help Me?
Kiwiangel Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 2
Loc: New Zealand
Thank you so much for the replies. I cant tell you how helpful they ALL are. Sick Puppy i read the link and i have to say...sounds familiar!

I will be praying for him, and will always keep the door to my friendship open, but a new day has dawned here in NZ, and today I start focusing on ME ME ME ME ME!!! ;\) I know it will be hard but after all i have been through i know i can get through this.

You are all amazing people. I look forward to hearing more of your life stories and journeys. THANK YOU \:\)

Kxx


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#66644 - 06/07/03 10:01 AM Re: Can Anyone Help Me?
Freedom Offline
Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 164
Loc: US
Kxx,

I have come to the conclusion that it is painful battle even, if the CSA wants to change things in positive direction, it is painful. But when there is denial, it is most likely impossible.

I agree about taking care of yourself. Some CSA are prone to extremes (today they love you tomorrow they hate you) and heavy into protecting themselves.

Take care,
Freedom.

_________________________
Life is moving on. AM I?

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#66645 - 06/09/03 11:42 AM Re: Can Anyone Help Me?
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Re: the message above "even if the CSA wants to change things it can still be panful" (or something like that)

I would agree - my BF is a survivor and he is heavy into dealing with it (he is involved with buddhist spiritual training (meditation)/ reiki /journalling/ church attendance / anger management group therapy and individual therapy and he is even prosecuting his perp)

However despite all of that there are some days where he is the biggest monster on earth. We have had some pretty awful shoving matches where I have gotten physically injured, and also the hugest most insane fight where he said (a week after we looked at wedding rings) he didnt want to marry me, I had too much emotoional "shit" to deal with, etc. etc. It was awful.

If your friend is still in denial it is pretty difficult to imagine him getting better any time soon. With respect to his relationship history/sexual acting out - my BF's track record is similar to your friend's (except he did not have any marriage/kids) but he has had many short term girlfriends and lovers that he did not want to be emotionally close to (sleeping with people he didnt really like and cant figure out why he did it, etc). I know he still struggles a bit with this in his mind (sexualizing women, wanting sex without getting hurt - I know it is in his mind as I have read his journal from time to time - not the best action as far as building trust between us but I had protect myself and had to be sure he wasn't acting out sexually) and as you can see above he too does some really hurtful distancing activities (the fights). AAh.. so readig this you may wonder why the hell we are still together - well he is working so hard at stuff and he is doing so much for his healing that he cannot but help get better over time. And most of the time things are good - its when he gets all stressed that things come out and problems arise.

So - if your friend is still in denial I would say that it is difficult to believe that he will get better any time soon... good advice people have given you to focus on yourself. You do sound quite philosophical about it - even though this is not waht you wanted that you seem like you know you have to get on with your own life. Dont discount what you had with your friend - I seriously believe that all he had said about you and your relationship (the positive stuff) was for real - however, it sounds like once a certain level of intimacy develops, it scares him and he resorts to all kinds of distancing behaviour. Even with all my BF's therapy and hard work he too still operates on that come here-go away type of deal. The good thing for us is that I have a heavy-duty job that takes me away from home about 1 week out of four - very helpful for me to feel more independent and have a break from him and for him to get some space and realize that I'm not the scary monster that he sometimes perceives me to be.


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