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#66273 - 10/19/06 12:51 PM Update
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
This last week has been very hard since i made the physical/emotional boundary thing. Bf has been very depressed about it and I have had to fight all my feelings of guilt and avoid giving him sympathy over it. That has been SO hard. But, I did it and I think it may be paying off now.

Yesterday, I realised I've been so angry with him and decided maybe it's time to move on from that now. I realise none of this is his fault and I felt sad that I have been feeling so dispassionate about us. So, in the evening I suggested we look on some 'save your relationship' websites. He was fine with that and we read through one of them, then he said he felt sick, stood up, did some stretches, then sat down and said he felt uneasy again. I thought that would be it for the evening, but then he went on to explain he was feeling distant and he realised that was cause he was distancing himself and he didn't like it. He went on to say that at his last T appointment, his T asked him if he was afraid of losing me and he didn't know. So, after a day of thinking about it, he realised he was and that it was making him avoid any instigation of intimacy in case he 'got it wrong', got triggered, and/or upset me. After that, he was So nice to me! I don't think he's ever been that 'connected' to me before. It's funny cause I got all shy and nervous(which is very me). We had a far more enjoyable evening than we usually have. I also noticed that I'm actually quite afraid of 'connecting' with him now. Is it because I have been so shut out for all these years and so hurt by everything that's happened? Perhaps I was always afraid?

I don't know, but basically it seems like a change for the better and I just wanted to share some positive news with you all. Also the interesting thing that through me being stronger for myself/my own needs, it has given him the opportunity to think about what he really wants.


with a lot of hard work, we all have the possibility to live the life we deserve....


peace
Beccy


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#66274 - 10/19/06 07:15 PM Re: Update
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Beccy,

Oh, I'm so glad you guys had a nice evening. What a positive thing! I am so glad he has a T that is helping him. At least you know it's progressing and in a positive way.

Trish pointed something out to me on another thread (the jealousy one) that made me REALLY think. She said, "They see and they hurt, they just don't tell us." I keep repeating that one over and over in my mind.... your b/f sounds sweet *when you get to know him*! That is, when he lets you in.

Sometimes I think they could hurt us much worse if they let us in first. Eek, I hope not. But I want to be let in so bad and it sounds like your b/f is letting you in slowly.

I raise my teacup to you! ;-)

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#66275 - 10/19/06 09:58 PM Re: Update
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Beccy,

What a nice post! I'm so glad things are looking better. It's important to hold onto those moments - there will be further stormy days in the future and it's good to be able to look back and see that there really is something to work for.

He has a lot of work to do, sure. But please do bear in mind that all this is challenging you as well. You have a right to your frustrations and anger, and it's important that these feelings not get just stuffed back into the dark. They need to be processed and resolved somehow, just as his feelings need to be processed and resolved.

I just posted to BH on the issue of a survivor refusing to feel anymore. Did you see that? I ask because I wonder if that sounds familiar in your bf's case.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#66276 - 10/20/06 02:16 PM Re: Update
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
Thanks larry,

I remember you said that once before, about further stormy days in the future, and it did prepare me for the ones already encountered. It still scares me to hear it again though. Makes me worry about what else?

I know, my feelings of anger/frustration.....what to do with them.....I suppose so far, the best thing seems to have been 'allow all feelings, feel all feelings'. Then hope not to make loads of mistakes because of that, does that make sense? Then, keeping the awareness that this is neither mine/my bf's fault and so once a feeling is dealt with, you can kind of decide to move on from it.

The jealousy post.....it does sound familiar. It still worries me though, just like it worries me that he's not asked me to marry him. I understand he's closed off to a lot of his feelings, numb, and I relate to that too. But, also, if that's the case, is it only when he fully feels again that he'll truly know his feelings for me. He said he hadn't even thought of the possibility of losing me, but now he has, he's decided he won't let that happen. Last night he said he had decided to be nicer to be with. It is positive. Also though, when he talks about it all, I can't 'see', or 'feel' his feelings within it. Like it all sounded quite calculated. I don't mind that in itself, it's part of what I find attractive about him, but I find myself worrying what all this really means to him. Perhaps my trust is so shattered, and I am so paranoid(mixed in with afraid) of his intentions. I think I have been very deeply hurt by this relationship, and it's going to take quite a while for me to trust him again. Also I have noticed, I am definately having problems fully connecting from my side. It comes and goes in waves, but I am so nervous/on edge/insecure about expressing my whole self. If I wasn't such a bloody sensitive person!

I know all of these things will just progress gradually......I'd like to start feeling less depressed soon, more confident etc

will post again soon,

peace
Beccy


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#66277 - 10/21/06 01:17 AM Re: Update
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Beccy,

This one struck a resonant chord in me this evening:

Quote:
It still scares me to hear it again though. Makes me worry about what else?
It reminds me of all the times I would get up in the morning, stumble over to the bathroom and shower, and then look in the mirror and say to myself: "Don't even START on me this morning. I just came here to brush my teeth and shave." ;\)

You mention again the issue of him not asking you to marry him, but let me ask you this: Isn't that in fact a good thing? Isn't there a lot of other stuff to work through before that question can really be faced? Or let's put it this way: Isn't it a healthy thing that the marriage discussion be postponed for awhile?

I know you see the possibility of it never happening at all, and that's what bothers you. I'm just suggesting what I hope is a more positive way to look at it in the present circumstances.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#66278 - 10/21/06 10:15 AM Re: Update
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
I know what you mean Larry, and obviously that makes sense. Just depressing that's all.....


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#66279 - 10/21/06 11:51 AM Re: Update
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Beccy,

Yeah I know, I know (notice I didn't say "I understand"). I'm just suggesting that things can be made to hurt less when we teach ourselves the art of what's possible and what works right now.

My wife and I stumbled onto that by accident really, but it helped us a lot. When I was in bad shape there were lots of things that were just NOT going to happen. That sucked bigtime, but still, that's the way it was. By learning to accept that for the time being and sticking to safe territory it really was better for us both.

I'm not saying shut up about the possibility of marriage. Not at all. There are plenty of ways you can signal how you feel and what you want, and in fact that might be good for both of you. It would be a way of indicating that both of you are still looking forward to a time when things are a LOT better. I would just say that stopping short of the big conversation makes good sense for right now.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#66280 - 10/22/06 11:04 AM Re: Update
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
I know Larry,

there's just this wierd thing that seems to keep happening to me, where the longer we go on without this kind of proffession/expression of commitment/passionate love from him, the more angry/cold I am feeling. It's all internalised, so he doesn't know, but I'm like, we've been together 12 years, we have 2 kids........it seems silly.

I am coming to the realiseation though, that really he's only just 'waking up'. It's like he's a teenager who's experiencing adult feelings for the first time. And sometimes a child. All this leaves me with the profound feeling that he must surely have been in a place where he didn't really know what he wanted. So, what now? I am an experience to be had, until he really understands himself/knows what kind of partner he wants. And THEN he will know if he wants commitment or not? This makes me ANGRY. I am here now, living with him, looking after our kids and I wanted commitment from the start. I never intended to live together as a casual affair. I was serious about my intentions(with or without the marriage part). I don't want to be a GIRLFRIEND who's just co-habiting until he decides she's really what he wants.

Sometimes I feel very pessimistic about our future together. 12 years is a long time to wait for all the things I really need to feel alive and happy and secure. I have been 'shut down' for such a long time and now I'm switching on again, I'm not really sure how much patience I have.

peace
beccy


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#66281 - 10/22/06 12:45 PM Re: Update
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Beccy,

Everything you say in this last post he needs also to hear one way or another. What you talk about are your concerns and needs, your boundaries, and your anger at what his abuse issues are costing everyone - you, him, and the children. If perhaps it's a good idea to hold off on discussions of further commitments, even if they are already implicit in the relationship as it is right now, I don't think any partner should feel she has to accept disrespect or tolerate a non-functional relationship in which her needs aren't met at all.

Where the boundaries lie for you is something you have to decide yourself, and then communicate to him. After 12 years, yes, he should be able to figure these out by now. But I can tell you that even after 19 years, once I started dealing with my abuse issues I fell into a pretty serious state of emotional confusion and distress that prevented me from seeing many things, including where I was going wrong and where I was crossing serious boundaries. I knew only because my wife stood her ground and made sure I knew.

I think the way you end is especially important for him to hear and understand:

Quote:
12 years is a long time to wait for all the things I really need to feel alive and happy and secure. I have been 'shut down' for such a long time and now I'm switching on again, I'm not really sure how much patience I have.
That kind of approach tells him that what matters is commitment and genuine effort, and that if he can't manage that, then you cannot predict how long you can wait around for him to find his way.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#66282 - 10/22/06 01:39 PM Re: Update
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
And Beccy, I'm sorry but he needs to be held accountable somewhat because you have children together. It's kind of like you want to tell him you understand all his pain/confusion, etc., but also could maybe say a version of "Do the right thing" to him. And the "right thing" would AT LEAST be to be a good dad for his kids and being a good dad doesn't mean leaving and paying child support on time. The kids need HIM. (as well as you, of course). I'm sorry there's not a vow or commitment he would be breaking if he left you, but he does have children and surely that is something he ought to commit himself to, at the very least. I'm not discounting your feelings for 12 yrs, and you can certainly remind him of the time YOU'VE invested in making a life with HIM. It's very hard because you want to assert yourself and be unconditionally loving at the same time. Remind him that you don't want his abuse to claim more victims: you and the children. Maybe if he sees it that way he would want to stand up for what he has and protect it.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#66283 - 10/22/06 02:49 PM Re: Update
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
I feel bad now, cause he is a good dad. He's out in the garden now with our daughter clearing leaves. He is showing interest in how to repair some of the damage done to her by his various disociation/boundary/emotional confusion. I told him last night about how angry I feel over the fact he witheld important information about some of the difficulties he had with her in the past. It led to much confusion on my part, and misshandling of behaviours. He took it well and we were able to discuss it a bit. He seems very committed to righting it all.

Also this week he has been making a real effort to talk and instigate intimacy.

He has said things to reassure me when I've been insecure. But when I recall the conversation we had a few months back(when he wasn't sure about us) and I had asked him if he wanted to have some kind of open relationship; he wasn't sure, he went to work, then phoned and left a message on answer phone, saying, ''that's not where I'm at....'', and that he wasn't ready to give up on us etc. It's the 'that's not where I'm at' that gets me. I thinkpreviously to that when I nervously asked him about the marriage thing and he'd said he was trying to think of a good way to ask, can't have been true because at that time he was actually feeling very unsure about everything. SO, all of that makes me worry about what to believe of his intentions, you know? I feel like everything's on rocky ground at the moment. I don't think I feel sure of us anymore either, but I can't help feeling like that's because I don't get certainty from him? I think we're just in a very difficult place at the moment.

I also don't feel comfortable bringing up the commitment issue with him at the moment, because I don't want another decision of this kind to be based on my insecurity.I want it to based on what he WANTS. Does that make sense?

peace
Beccy


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#66284 - 10/22/06 04:53 PM Re: Update
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
B,

I have begun to realize that just because a survivor isn't "sure" about his mate is not an indication of lack of love. It indicates that he is unsure, because he is unsure about EVERYTHING, even himself. He is probably unsure you could ever love him if you knew all the crap he feels about himself. Try to see it from his point of view. Imagine that you are having a serious personal nervous breakdown because of your past, and your partner is asking for you to be sure about anything. It must be terribly hard for him.

One way I am going to approach my husband when he gets back is I'm going to offer my friendship (what he needs now) as he begins to sort through some confusing and bad feelings and tell him that there is no pressure for intimacy at the moment. Also that we won't decide what's going to happen to "us" until we're down the road quite a ways, that is, until after therapy and all...it's a long, long road. We can't rush them as much as we'd love to!!! I think asking for them to be very sure of anything right now is unfair given what devastation they're dealing with. They're not emotionally equipped to make any big decisions right now. Your mind is clear and you are whole, so you know what you want, you know you are good mates probably for life. That may be true on his part too, he just doesn't KNOW it yet. Does that make sense? He *can't* know it yet. This is how I'm going to deal with my husband. His uncertainty about "us" does not reflect a lack of love for me, just reflects the devastation/confusion he's going through at the TIME. I want us to get past some of this heavy stuff so he can think clearly and we can make decisions together. Also remember he's not capable of stating what HE wants or needs now anyway - all that was taken away from him as a boy. It's like he's got a speech impediment and can't even state it. He has to relearn how to ask for things and value himself, etc., and I imagine he'll be able to move forward in your relationship at some point, just not now when he's so fragile about EVERYTHING, not just you.

If you were in a relationship with a whole man w/a normal psyche you would have every right to DEMAND a commitment from him after 12 yrs and 2 children!!! But he's not your regular, strong guy who knows what he wants. Try to remember this, and remember too that as he gets better he will become stronger and better able to see what has been in front of him all along, your love and a family that is worth keeping. <3

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#66285 - 10/22/06 07:48 PM Re: Update
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
Brokenhearted, here where you say,

''We can't rush them as much as we'd love to!!! I think asking for them to be very sure of anything right now is unfair given what devastation they're dealing with. They're not emotionally equipped to make any big decisions right now. Your mind is clear and you are whole, so you know what you want, you know you are good mates probably for life.''

Firstly, if i hadn't asked him if he wanted an open relationship, I might have been waiting weeks/months for him to be 'sure' about us. I believe that was asking him to be very sure of one thing. I am not prepared to sit at home and wait for him to decide when he might 'choose' to seek excitement elsewhere. And I wanted to make it very clear, he should decide that, and if so, I would not sit around waiting while he went out sleeping with other people. I would have my own fun too. At least that made it clear he had to really think about what he wanted in the here and now. I don't think that is too much to ask, although that's my own personal boundary.

Secondly, my mind is not clear, and I don't believe it ever has been. It's why I am with someone like him, and it's also why I cheated on him years ago. I believe I was acting out when I did that, and if he'd screamed his head off at me and showed me his true feelings, I would have stopped it in a second. I don't mean making me feel ashamed, as I actually think that IS what he did. I mean raw emotions. It is these missing raw emotions and expressions of various feelings, which make me feel insecure/unwanted. That makes me wonder how long I can live without these things, before my own desires/needs get the better of me. Perhaps I will never get them from him. Either he won't truly want me, or he won't be able to give me what I need. Maybe I'm not giving him what he needs either. And I definately am no longer sure we will be mates for life.......I've been going through a process too, from the stuff from my past, and also from the mess of this relationship. I have always expressed clearly my devotion/commitment to him though. I always knew I wanted to be with him, even when i was cheating on him. I never said I wasn't sure to him. I feel hurt that he said that to me. There's so much pain and betrayal, that at the moment it seems like more than a mountain to climb.....


peace
beccy


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#66286 - 10/22/06 09:57 PM Re: Update
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
B,

When you say "I am not prepared to sit at home and wait for him to decide when he might 'choose' to seek excitement elsewhere. And I wanted to make it very clear, he should decide that, and if so, I would not sit around waiting while he went out sleeping with other people." -- I totally agree with this one. I only meant that he may not be able to "see" clearly enough right now to move forward with a marriage commitment. Yes, either he needs to be faithful or get out, that much I agree w/.

I think for me and maybe for you also, is the question of whether they're ambivalent about being w/ "us" as a couple because they're wounded and can't make up their minds, or because they maybe don't love us anymore/enough. I struggle w/ this one also. I feel much more optimistic if I take the first view where they're just confused, and also they may not really even understand yet what real love IS.

However, it does crush me also to wonder if he just doesn't love me anymore. But w/ his csa and also other signs of depression in his life - I can see he's lost interest in a lot of things besides me - so I guess I've chosen to see it that way, rather than a lack of love. It hurts too much to think it's THAT.

It's hard. But things change, they can't stay the same forever, so maybe this time next week or next month you'll feel differently, hopefully better.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#66287 - 10/22/06 10:08 PM Re: Update
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
Brokenhearted, I think you're one of the most optimistic people ever \:\)

peace
Beccy


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#66288 - 10/23/06 04:28 AM Re: Update
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Or hopelessly hopeful...it's too heartbreaking to be otherwise for me...I can't handle no hope in my situation right now.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

Top
#66289 - 10/27/06 04:10 AM Re: Update
katherinew Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 16
Loc: lala land
Hi,

I'm new here and I am finding a ton of information that is very insightful. I have one question for Brokenhearted, you have said many things that are so helpful to read but there is one comment I read from you one 2 different posts that upset me and I wanted to ask you about it.

Why did you say that they (the men who suffered) are not WHOLE?

That seems cruel and judgemental, although you clearly are not from everything else you've written. Pls don't take offense but I am curious.

Thanks for so much insight.

_________________________
Kat
* *** *

"You come to love not by finding the perfect person, but by seeing an imperfect person perfectly." - Sam Keen

"To love a person is to learn the song that is in their heart, and to sing it to them when they have forgotten." - Anonymous

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#66290 - 10/27/06 04:32 AM Re: Update
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Katherinew,

When I said "whole" I did not mean anything derogatory by it, in my mind it would mean being in ownership of a healthy self-esteem rather than having distorted thinking or views. That is my meaning of it in this situation. In other words, certain things were taken away from him as a boy, such as dignity and esteem and a regard for his own needs, and those things are still missing from my husband. They were taken away from him so that now he is not in ownership of all that he was created to be. Maybe it's a complicated definition but that is all I meant by it and I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#66291 - 10/27/06 05:10 AM Re: Update
katherinew Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 16
Loc: lala land
Brokenhearted,

Thank you for you reply. I understand better what you meant. I guess I have a different perspective in the sense that I think once a person realizes that they ARE whole, no matter what pains and insecurities they have, THAT knowledge or belief will help them gain the things that they are lacking.

But also I feel so confused myself and I was not offended, just wanted to understand why you felt that way. It hurt me to think of my bf as not whole because he was abused.

_________________________
Kat
* *** *

"You come to love not by finding the perfect person, but by seeing an imperfect person perfectly." - Sam Keen

"To love a person is to learn the song that is in their heart, and to sing it to them when they have forgotten." - Anonymous

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#66292 - 10/27/06 10:51 AM Re: Update
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
I have to say I don't really think of my bf as not being whole anymore than I would have thought of my own skewed perspective of my life (until recently) meaning I am not whole. I think it's more like all the pieces of yourself are a bit mixed up and distorted. You think these things about yourself, they feel real, you don't feel any less than whole. I don't feel any more whole now after sorting my own head out a bit. I just feel like loads of things I've done/thought have been based on untruths about myself/other people. I can understand the point you were trying to make though BH.....

peace
beccy


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