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#65980 - 05/06/03 11:15 PM boundaries and minefields
doctorfrau Offline
Member

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 60
Loc: West Virginia (NOT western Vir...
I’ve been thinking about boundaries some more. As someone who crosses them regularly- sometimes deliberately – I’d like some more insight, or maybe I just need to vent.

I have to admit that sometimes I am worse than a little kid when it comes to boundaries. It’s kind of like when we were in the backseat on a trip, and my brothers drew a line down the upholstery. Sooner or later someone is going to sneak a finger across that rib of vinyl just because they told you not to, and you know it will drive them crazy. It’s like waving a red flag in front of a bull – or even a double-dog dare – you just can’t walk away from an opportunity like that. “Mom! He’s looking out ‘my’ window!” “ Mom! She’s on ‘my’ side of the seat!”

I admit I succumbed to this temptation when dealing with my friend. I’m going to call him “Geraldo” from here on out, because he DOES have a name, even though I can’t use it here. I have crossed Geraldo’s boundaries several times in our relationship. I called it his “minefield” at the time, and I knew it was there, I just didn’t know why. When I stepped into the minefield, he would suddenly get weird on me (for lack of a better de>
_________________________
"...your choice, is what to DO with the time that you are given."

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#65981 - 05/06/03 11:18 PM Re: boundaries and minefields
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
It's not his fault he won't talk to you. Would you talk to someone who continuously manipulated you, purposely triggered you, emotionally abused you and teased you about your deepest personal issues?

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#65982 - 05/06/03 11:25 PM Re: boundaries and minefields
doctorfrau Offline
Member

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 60
Loc: West Virginia (NOT western Vir...
Yes Puppy I did that \:\(
At the time I had no idea how hurtful I was being - I only knew how much his rejection had hurt 'me'. Like I said in my last post - I am dirt \:\(

I have little excuse for that, except that I was dealing with my 'own' pain and issues at the time. I would hope that I am past that now, but I can't guarantee it. All I can do is promise to talk about it when it happens-- but he won't do that \:\(

_________________________
"...your choice, is what to DO with the time that you are given."

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#65983 - 05/06/03 11:29 PM Re: boundaries and minefields
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
Well to people who have been abused it's incredibly hard to trust. He obviously trusted you enough to tell you, and you broke that trust and to some extent re-abused him. It might seem like nothing much to you but to a survivor it's everything. It's just another reason never to trust people.

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#65984 - 05/06/03 11:52 PM Re: boundaries and minefields
doctorfrau Offline
Member

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 60
Loc: West Virginia (NOT western Vir...
I didn't know what it was I was doing, and he wouldn't tell me. I have shed so many tears over what I would take back if I could. but I can't. All I can do is beg forgiveness and ask to start over again.

_________________________
"...your choice, is what to DO with the time that you are given."

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#65985 - 05/07/03 12:07 AM Re: boundaries and minefields
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
Well I'm sorry to say it but just because you didn't neccesarily do it on purpose doesn't mean that all can or will be forgiven. Whether you intended to or not, you still did him damage, and his trust with you has been broken.

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#65986 - 05/07/03 12:36 AM Re: boundaries and minefields
doctorfrau Offline
Member

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 60
Loc: West Virginia (NOT western Vir...
I don't think that being hurt and angry and confused at being shut out without explanation is a totally unreasonable response on my part. The boundaries that I crossed were not physical ones. I never touched him unless it was at his inititation, and then only for a hug. I even slept on his couch once at his behest while I was in town visting. He slept in his bed - I slept on the couch, clothed and in my sleeping bag.

The boundaries that I crossed or purposely stomped on, were in bringing up subjects that he refused to talk about. I said things like - 'Do I remind you of "him" - is that why you are acting this way??' This was before I even knew there was such a word as "trigering". I said things like - 'I think your problem is that you are attracted to me and don't "want" to be.'

That was the only thing that was left to me when he wouldn't speak. Pick things and guess, and try to make him answer. It didn't work.

_________________________
"...your choice, is what to DO with the time that you are given."

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#65987 - 05/07/03 07:43 AM Re: boundaries and minefields
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
Emotional abuse (I use abuse here for lack of a better word) is often far more damaging than its physical counterpart. I think you have a lot more learning to do in this area. I really don't mean to sound harsh but you are being TOTALLY unreasonable in expecting him to forgive you and go about as if nothing happened. It is HIS CHOICE if he wants to talk to you, and abusing him is NOT how to get him to talk. You're the one at fault here, NOT HIM.

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#65988 - 05/07/03 08:15 AM Re: boundaries and minefields
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
doctorfrau
Once we retreat behind our boundaries we take some shifting, I do anyway.

But I for one didn't really know where my boundaries lay for certain, they probably shifted daily.
So I couldn't give anyone a map.

Sometimes I needed someone to poke my boundaries with a stick to show me where I was, but I didn't want a road driven through them until I built it.

It's hard for anyone to know just how hard to poke the stick, and where to poke it.

I guess you need to think hard about how serious he is about shutting you out, if you believe there's still a chance then you need to tell him what you laid out in the origional post, maybe by letter.
He did trust you, maybe he can again.

Begging forgiveness probably wont wash, I would want someone who had pushed my buttons ( whether accidently or on purpose ) to show me that they were aware that I had buttons I didn't want to be pushed, aware that I had boundaries I wanted respecting. I would want to see that change in someone, and that's different to saying "sorry"

We heal better and quicker with someone to care and help us, and he might have seen you as that person once. I'm afraid he might take some persuading to see you in that role again, but you wont know until you try.


Quote:
I said things like - 'Do I remind you of "him" - is that why you are acting this way??' This was before I even knew there was such a word as "trigering". I said things like - 'I think your problem is that you are attracted to me and don't "want" to be.'
You've been very frank in your replies to Pup' - you've thought about this and what you did and recognise that phrases like "I think your problem is...." are the buttons to avoid with this guy.

We need to get to this point ourselves, but support is wonderful if we have it, we need someone to bounce our ideas and thoughts off. It's ok if someone disagrees with my ideas, and if they're right I'll accept that, but I need to arrive at those ideas my way.

We're giving you a bit of a kicking here I know, and it's not intended to be nasty to you.
You obviously care enough about this guy to want to help, you come to this site and are willing to learn from our experiences.
I hope you make a difference, but first off I think you need to convince him that you care enough to have made some changes.

I hope it works.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#65989 - 05/07/03 09:03 AM Re: boundaries and minefields
doctorfrau Offline
Member

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 60
Loc: West Virginia (NOT western Vir...
I need and deserve the “kicking” – it’s okay.

I guess I have my moments of doubt as to whether this is really worth it or not. Maybe I need to get some counseling myself (again). I have so much on my plate already. I have three kids to raise, and I am in medical school at a late age. Maybe I don’t have the energy to work that hard at a relationship that is probably doomed anyway. I myself struggle with Depression also, so I need to take care of ‘myself’ first for my children’s sake. If it is going to take a virtual act of God to repair this relationship, then maybe I can’t do that….. I just don’t know.

I got out of a bad marriage because I couldn’t force my husband to stop drinking, stop withdrawing, and start communicating with me. Maybe I have a pattern here of trying to “save” men who don’t want to be saved.

On the other hand, I felt an almost spiritual connection with Geraldo from very early on. That was what kept me going back to try again, even after the first couple times he pulled away. But my children need me too, so I can’t afford to make myself into a basket case (again) over him.

I feel like I have this cartoon thing of the little devil on one shoulder (self-preservation), and the little angel on the other (he needs you). I go back and forth with it several times a week –sometimes several times a day. But I guess it still comes down to the fact that I can’t “make” him do “anything”. He has to want to do it for himself. Sometimes I feel like I am beating my head up against a wall –-- his wall.

_________________________
"...your choice, is what to DO with the time that you are given."

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