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#64965 - 03/18/03 02:31 AM "Room-mate" Blues
stride Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/03
Posts: 202
Loc: B.C. Canada
Hi folks, I'm in need of a place to ramble. Feeling really down. Not aware of hope at the moment.

My partner and I have not had sex in a month. I call it "sex" cos' that's basically all it is. We don't make love. That requires presence and an intimacy that my partner does not seem able to give and participate in. And while it might sound like it, I'm not feeling bitter about that right now, just really, really tired and sad.

I have tried for so long
to be patient, supportive, understanding, etc, while also trying to remain positive, attractive and desirable. But in the past month I have gone from a hopeful and emotionally/sexually available woman to one who largely stays well away from
the minefield that is our sex life. If nothing else, I just haven't been able to face the prospect of yet another encounter with my guy that will almost surely leave me feeling emotionally/psychologically/spiritually and sexually alone and abandoned. He seems to have welcomed the reprieve and, while that makes some kind of sense to me, it nonetheless leaves me feeling even worse. He's not so much as even hinted at a desire for any intimacy between us during this time and though I know he's noticed my withdrawal, he's not given any outward indication of that.

Then tonight he called me (en route from his day job to his night job)and casually observed that we've been living more like "roomates" than anything else for the past few weeks. (That, after asking a routine question of how I was and commenting that I sounded really tired.) He didn't seem upset about the situation, just volunteered the acknowledgement. He did say that since we are going to see a counsellor (for the first time) this Thursday night, that perhaps it will at least be a start in helping to relieve the growing strain between us.

I dunno. It's not like me to lose desire for and interest in him, but lately I've just been bouncing around from one emotional state to the next--utter sadness and depression, exhaustion, surrender/resignation, intense anger and resentment, detachment, etc--every emotion and headspace except, other than a few rare moments here and there, hope.

I have read a lot of posts by the men of the MS forums and many, if not all, have a strong ring of familiarity to me. I have mentioned some of them to my partner but he says he's not interested in checking them out himself.

Anyway, I'm starting to wonder if my persistence in staying the course with him is still coming from a place of love and desire or from habit and a reluctance to face the loss of a very dear dream. It is all I can do to get through the days right now. I love my man. I know I do. Right now though, it's hard to feel anything but tired and just very heavily weighed down by it all. I think I've done everything I can, but it feels like I'm the only one (of the two of us) truly committed to working on these issues. Perhaps counselling will help. We'll see. For now though, Thursday night seems a lifetime away and I worry that it'll prove to be "too little too late."

Please forgive me for sounding self-pitying or bitter here. Am feeling a little raw right now.

Stride

_________________________
In the right formation,
the lifting power of many wings can
achieve twice the distance of any bird flying alone.

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#64966 - 03/18/03 07:27 AM Re: "Room-mate" Blues
Whitecat Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 7
Quote:
Anyway, I'm starting to wonder if my persistence in staying the course with him is still coming from a place of love and desire or from habit and a reluctance to face the loss of a very dear dream.
Dear Stride -

This is a question many partnes struggle with.
When do you go from being loving and supportive to an enabler/codependent?



When I finally asked this question, I received the following responses from a friend, perhaps it will help you.

 “I have wrestled with this one for a while. I guess you have to know in your heart that you are a healthy person, making good decisions for ourself, setting a good, healthy example. I think it is a fine line but if your tuned into your own soul and heart you know when the line is being crossed. I think there are reasonable compromises we all make in relationships/partnerships; being a POS takes a bit more, but when you go well beyond your limits and it is too much of yourself or you are sacrificing beyond your good boundaries then it is Co-dependent/enabling.
Everybody is different though so it is really up to you to decide what is right. I try to tell myself the key is staying healthy and grounded in my own boundaries; while remaining flexible, is the best way to maintain. This way I can be secure in saying that something is not ok or I
won't accept this or that.

You have to be attuned to your instincts and ready to act on them. When you have that awful feeling of "this doesn't feel right," then don't even blink. It's NOT right. Our "gut" is there for one reason only: to protect us"

Couples therapy is a good start - but don't expect any miracles - at least not at first. You might want to consider seeing a therapist on your own to help you clarify your "issues". I do not think it is totally by chance that "victims" choose us for partners or that we choose them. I know that there was a time that I had few "boundaries" . In the end, you will have to look at yourself.

White Cat


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#64967 - 03/18/03 08:03 AM Re: "Room-mate" Blues
taipan Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 57
Loc: CT
Stride, I am very very sorry for your struggle. I now it too well. My wife (we are now seperated) was feeling my lack of intimacy in the relationship for a long time. Our sex life was different from what you discribe; I hounded her for sex constantly and ultimatly made her feel like an object and not much more (that was all the intamacy I could give at the time). We went to couples counseling which was a great start, but that alone was not enough. I refused to admite that I needed therapy to address my SA issues and that ultimatly lead my wife to give up on our relationship. It was only then (I'm not suggesting you do the same) that I "hit bottom" and relized that I did need help dealing with the many many issues that my SA caused. So what I would advise you is to also seek couseling on your own to keep yuorself from becoming a victim of his SA, and to work on becoming the best YOU that you can be which is seperate and independent from who he is. As far as helping your hubby, try any way you can to get him to seek cousleing by himself. It is an absolute nessity if he has any hope of growing and becoming a happy health man caple of a mutually satisfying relationship. I thought I didn't need the help of a theripist, and I couldn't have been more wrong.
My wife has made great progress in her therapy, she is now a happy person and building herself into quite a beautiful person inside and out. I have been in therapy for a short time and already am feeling good about myself and making great strides becoming a happy healthy (physicly and mentaly) person.


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#64968 - 03/18/03 10:41 PM Re: "Room-mate" Blues
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
I am gonna print this and hand it to my wife???

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#64969 - 03/18/03 10:42 PM Re: "Room-mate" Blues
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
If you all say it's ok for me to share this with her that is.....me, my wife, same thing over here...going on three months (none this year)....

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#64970 - 03/18/03 11:47 PM Re: "Room-mate" Blues
stride Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/03
Posts: 202
Loc: B.C. Canada
Whitecat & Taipan--Thank you both for your responses here. I do think that much of my recent malaise (an understatement!) is the result of my having crossed over from healthy to enabling behaviours. I was going to add "however good my intentions" but realized almost instantly that the intent of my enabling behaviours has been, if only subconsciously, an attempt to get what I want as much or more than they were for any benefit to my partner. A misguided effort to be sure, as such behaviours do more damage than good, changing little for him and leaving me feeling worse than ever (self-betrayal). Not that I think I don't deserve to have my needs met in a relationship, but they're hardly going to be met by pretending to enjoy things that I don't or not to feel hurt by things that hurt, you know? Oh sigh.

Anyway, as always, my heartfelt thanks for your understanding and support.

Orodo--I certainly haven't any objection to you sharing my posts with your wife. Hope they help!
In the meantime, would you be willing to share more about your situation ("going on three months" etc)and what that's about for you?

Stride

_________________________
In the right formation,
the lifting power of many wings can
achieve twice the distance of any bird flying alone.

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#64971 - 03/19/03 02:16 PM Re: "Room-mate" Blues
moo2 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 82
Loc: pottsboro,texas
stride,
I am glad you wrote us. You will get a lot of good advice.
You have been giving a little too much of yourself to your partner. Only he can truly choose to heal. Give him some tools + try to talk about the SA or sexual problems.
My situation is that my hubby can barely even be touched by me, let alone be intimant. Let me tell you about my hubby when he was 5-11. MrEdd was put into a filthy daycare with 3 Perps. MrEdd was violently raped 3x a week at first. My hubby is not going to want sex or even sexual touches for at least months now that his theripy is starting.

Just keep talking + suggesting information. Also get an outside support system. Friends you can tell or church.Stride just do some stuff outside of supporting your partner.
WITH MUCH LOVE,
Kim :p


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#64972 - 03/19/03 07:56 PM Re: "Room-mate" Blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
this is a problem we talked about in our group therapy a week or so ago, the guys there all felt some kind of discomfort with whatever 'normal' sex might be defined as.

Some might be as Taipan, demanding but unemotional, others like Orodo, and myself, retreating into asexuality.
However the problem manifests itself in the relationship, we seem to develop such deep rooted hang ups about our sexual relationships, and no matter how much therapy and reading we do it's still one of the hardest things to overcome.
It is for me anyway.

It's not that I don't love my wife anymore, or find her unattractive, I don't. The problem is in my head.

When we were younger we were at it like rabbits, but that's the benefit of youth I suppose. We had stronger sex drives then.
As we've got older and things eased off naturally I tried fantasy to spice up our sex. But I never shared it with her, and the fantasy was about what I did as a boy.
Then confusion set in, sometimes the fantasy worked, sometimes not. It took over, I hated it.
I developed the fantasies, I acted the fantasies out.
And all the time our sex life was degenerating.

As best as I can remember about when we were younger, sex was still a strained affair between us . I didn't speak, suggest anything, ask anything and my main concern was to go for as long as possible. The macho thing.
I didn't kiss much and foreplay was quick and fumbling.
I improved on the foreplay and not much else.

My role models were perverts who taught me to be a slave to their sexual needs. Nobody taught me any scrap of usefull sex education at all. The only thing we learnt in class was the very basic biological facts, in ten minutes flat !
When I started work I was an apprentice at a big engineering plant where porn was common, so my already distorted ideas about sex were bent out of shape even more.

Is it any wonder I can't deal with being intimate ?

I fear I'm not alone either.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#64973 - 03/19/03 08:39 PM Re: "Room-mate" Blues
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
My wife and I have been married since 1989, and we dated exclusively for two years prior to that. I told her I'd been abused by a priest, a much older boy when i was 8 on, and she knew that i'd been having multiple sexual relationships all thru grammar school, high school and college, male and female. She hated my gay friends, and all my sex partners living in my dorm when i was a senior in college. At one point before we were "monogamous", and not mutually exclusive sexually, i initiated a "threesome" with her, me and a male friend of mine. At first she was intrigued, but later during the nite, got turned off, and hauled me outta there. On the ride home, she said, "you have to choose, keep living like this (drunk, high, sex all the time) and be dead, or choose to be with me only, and live." I chose to be with her, and here i am. So I have remained monogamous, but had not realized what an impact the abuse had on my life. We married, have three boys now, a home, both work full time all that. have always had problems with intimacy for the whole marriage, but attributed that to "who i am, who we are". About a two years ago it was getting bad, so i requested that we do marriage counseling. she refused. so i went alone. didn't get much done that way. still trying to overcompensate by doing more stuff, buying more stuff for her. I do laundry, pick up and drop off kids, chauffeur them around town, cook sometimes, give baths, make lunches, do dusting, vaccuuming all the home maintenance, buy her jewelry, flowers. the more i do
the more she has come to expect
so last year, the church scandal breaks

I realize that what hapened to me, has a had a terrible impact on me, and now my wife is in it as are my kids. learned that my perp living down the street. more therapy. more distance from her, she claims i am always on the computer, spaced out, "on another planet" not present, not inimtate.
so i try to change some more
start having sex with her every nite
soon she gets tired of that
wants me to "hold her hand, goose her, make kissy face, not necessarily have sex all the time, she's too tired"
so...i lay off
then she says she's not getting enuff intimacy, we are like roommates, and starts sleeping on the couch, or sometimes i do
that was around the holidays of '02. and we haven't had sex this year.

i think it stemsback to an incident where i encouraged her to a position, that actually reminded me of what one of my perps did to me. I had to stop what we were doing, and go vomit. that really turned her off.

she still won't come with me to therapy. she won't sleep in the same bed as me, "cuz you smell like a cigar" ( i smoke cigars like a a chimney) and she does not want to be intimate with me cuz we don't appear to be "in love " and I don't love her, andit's all my fault, cuz i'm so fucked up.

SSSooooo

i stopped taking the anti-d's, stopped the therapy, trying something different than what i've done for the last year.

I go to bed with her just last weeekend, try to start something, and she gets up to go to the bathroom, and doesn't come back. til morning
things that make u go hhhmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Peace

Orodo

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#64974 - 03/19/03 09:03 PM Re: "Room-mate" Blues
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Hi O,

It takes two to tangle--but it also takes two to be a loving couple. If there is no mutuality, well you did what you could.

If your sons joy is important to her she will try to be a warm friend to you at the least. Your boys deserve a warm home but you can't do that alone. It is especially hard if strong cold winds from the north rip through the house all the time.

I am sorry that there are always complications for you and your family. Would puttng your sons health and happiness ahead of either of yours make things be different? I really don't know how you and your wife can have much energy for the kids if you spend so much of it being unhappy with each other.

Of course, I have never married, so I don't know. Maybe married folks can pull it off. I sure know I could not.

My prayers are with you, all five of you.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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