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#64257 - 08/27/06 02:31 AM Re: Men without dads
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Brokenhearted, I wish your husband could have that older male figure in his life too. But then again my mother is insane and abusive, and the idea of an older woman/mother figure in my life seems unsettling and a little bit gross to me.

Eddie hit it right on the head-- not having your same-sex parent be a role model for you leaves you with a lot of confusion about what it means to be a man or a woman.

But, I think I've figured out how to be a mother and a wife just fine despite watching her screw up badly in both areas. It took some trial and error but probably it takes people with "normal" parents some trial and error too. So I think it's safe to let your blood pressure drop a bit... as you say, there are good people out there and your husband will start seeing them too when he starts feeling the void. It's been my observation that people who want to be healthier are drawn to healthy people.


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#64258 - 08/27/06 02:38 AM Re: Men without dads
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Brokenhearted,

Okay, here are just a few things I have seen:

1) Lack of confidence and self-esteem, that feeling of "I can't do this" or "If I try I will fail". If you show your Dad something you have done and he ignores you, or if he tells you you're stupid, or if you get beaten for interrupting him, you quickly learn that things you do are unimportant and in fact YOU are unimportant.

2) Inability to appreciate one's own achievements and talents, no matter how sophisticated these are and no matter how often they are confirmed and applauded by others. Related to no. 1. A boy who learns that everything he does is wrong or insufficient or laughable carries this hurt into adulthood. He doesn't want to hold up what he does and seek approval for it, because his past has taught him that only hurt will result. In fact, achievement can seem dangerous and he will often avoid recognition or notice.

3) Lack of trust in one's manhood and fear of failure as a husband, father and soulmate. A boy who feels unimportant and unwanted will blame himself for these problems and think there is something wrong with himself. He doesn't "outgrow" those feelings as he matures; they continue to fester and challenge his feelings about himself in every way that's important to him.

4) Fear of rejection and abandonment. If as a boy you have been rejected and repudiated by your own father, why should you imagine that anyone else would be different later in life? It's difficult to genuinely trust close friends and even your spouse.

5) Fear of what will go wrong next and will it be my fault, because the boy learned that bad things revolved around himself.

6) Reluctance to trust, and especially to trust other men. Who exactly are you to trust once you have been betrayed and dismissed by your own father?

7) Reluctance to feel things emotionally; a concern to stay closed down emotionally. The boy has learned that feeling means to discover worthlessness, unimportance and despair. Who needs that?

I'm sure I have missed some points, but you get the idea. Note, by the way, that I am talking about issues that do NOT stem from abuse. But this is the kind of stuff that sets a kid up as an easy target for abuse.

Also, remember that this has to do primarily with feelings and fears. I remember about 15 years ago a friend quite a lot younger than me came and told me he was thinking of proposing to his girlfriend, but he was scared to death of marriage. I thought they would make a great couple, so I asked him what the problem was.

It turned out his father had been an alcoholic and had terrorized the family for years before he abandoned them and then finally drank himself to death. My friend was worried because, as he said, he had never seen what a real marriage should be like and he was afraid he wouldn't know what to do as a husband. He was also afraid he would turn out like his father. We had a LONG talk that day!

He did get married, and he and his wife have been fine. But he did have to learn a lot of skills and pick up a lot of ideas that he would ordinarily have had from observing his father. But he's a strong guy both emotionally and morally, and he was able to meet the challenge.

And so do many others. A guy who grows up in a broken or devastated or dysfunctional home isn't doomed to live the same way as an adult. But I think he IS encumbered by a lot of troubles and burdens unfairly dropped on him by the irresponsibility of those who owed him the most when he was a boy.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#64259 - 08/27/06 02:40 AM Re: Men without dads
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
what really hurts is the little things you miss without a dad .stupid things like playing catch ,or learning to drive ,things like seeing a kid with his dad just hanging out ,buddies you know? i lived with my dad like a stranger till i was 11.he paid nothing but bad attention to me ,made me feel useless ,like a looser ,then when they took me from him ,all i wanted was to be back with him !?i wrote letters begging him to come get me ,i have one of those letters now my gran kept it ,,to me never having a dad would be just as bad cause all you got to do is walk outside to see dads and sons ,so i think you can miss what you never had

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#64260 - 08/27/06 04:58 PM Re: Men without dads
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Shadow,

Quote:
what really hurts is the little things you miss without a dad .stupid things like playing catch ,or learning to drive ,things like seeing a kid with his dad just hanging out ,buddies you know?
I winced when I read this. It almost makes me feel guilty because I had all those things with my Dad. And the bond is still there after 57 years, and despite the efforts of a clever son-of-a-bitch abuser. Yesterday I had the choice of going to Philadelphia to see a fantastic rock/blues band with a guitarist as good as Hendrix, or go with my Dad to the Corvette show in Carlisle. Guess which I plunked for?

It's sad beyond imagining - even tragic - what you have lost, Shadow, but you know what? That's only part of the story. You haven't lost your chance to fulfill the other side - the adult side - of this relationship, either as a father if it works out that way, or as an adult active with youth in your community.

I have had both opportunities, and they have been great. Being a Dad is a trip, let me tell you!

As for the other, you have already spoken about how you have connected and related so quickly to kids in your neighborhood. Have you thought of volunteering in some capacity? Youth groups? Scouts? The Y? Civic or church organizations? It's of course important not to allow such activities become a distraction from your recovery; you mustn't allow yourself to fall into the trap of becoming someone's rescuer. But healthy involvement in this kind of work could perhaps help you a lot. I personally think you have a lot of heart and love to give, bro, and that finding an outlet for this would help you to discover a lot about yourself.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#64261 - 08/27/06 10:36 PM Re: Men without dads
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
I agree totally with what Larry said, Shadow. I hope you get the chance to have your OWN family someday, you deserve that.

Larry, thanks so much for writing ad infinitem in response to my many posts. I hope you don't get carpal tunnel. I think ideally kids need both parents - one real reason I'm committed to staying w/ my dear husband, as we have a sweet little 3 yr old. I know she needs her daddy. It's really amazing what a *great* dad my husband is, considering he never had one himself.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#64262 - 08/27/06 10:55 PM Re: Men without dads
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Shadow,

I just want to highlight something that Brokenhearted says here:

Quote:
It's really amazing what a *great* dad my husband is, considering he never had one himself.
There are lots of great fathers and youth leaders out there who come from broken or dysfunctional homes. Through the strength of their character they are able to step away from the poison of their home environment, reach out for guidance from better sources, and develop into the kind of men their fathers could never have been.

I think you have what it takes to do the same thing Shadow, and I bet taking up this challenge would do wonders for your happiness in general.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#64263 - 08/28/06 07:55 PM Re: Men without dads
Trevor Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 778
Loc: Rhode Island
this whole convo
pisses me
off

_________________________
My lamb and martyr, this will be over soon. You look so precious.

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#64264 - 08/28/06 08:10 PM Re: Men without dads
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Trev,

Why does it piss you off?

L.

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#64265 - 08/28/06 08:16 PM Re: Men without dads
Trevor Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 778
Loc: Rhode Island
G i dunno. lets see
my real dad whoevr
he is didnt want me
my stepdad if thats wat
u wanna call him
HATED me
i nevr lookd for anybody
to replace it and nobody
evr offerd an i dont realy
give a fucking shit

_________________________
My lamb and martyr, this will be over soon. You look so precious.

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#64266 - 08/28/06 08:37 PM Re: Men without dads
Trevor Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 778
Loc: Rhode Island
sorry if i sound
like an asshole
here. it does bothr
me alot. i just w
wish somebody
wantd the job
u
know?

_________________________
My lamb and martyr, this will be over soon. You look so precious.

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