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#64101 - 01/08/05 12:44 PM Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa
I'm relatively new here and think the setup of the site has been nothing short of genius- but there's one thing that hasn't worked well for me and I wonder if so for others- theres no way to tell if a post is from a Male Survivor OR the partner/freind (and something just struck me about how few family members seem to be here.....) but i digress!

I'd like to know when reading a message and without a lot of research through individuals history of posts, you can't be sure half the time and it helps me to know if it's a surivor or spouse talking.... i'd even thought at first that the male survivor member indication next to a name meant someone was a male survivor- i was quite confused thereby at first by the posts...

anyway, just wanted to throw the idea and question out there


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#64102 - 01/08/05 01:39 PM Re: Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I am a male survivor, but next to my name it says guest. The reason is only that I have not been able to send credit card details and become a member.

It will take a bit of time to find out who is who, and what is what, but you will find your friends, and the help you seek here,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#64103 - 01/08/05 02:15 PM Re: Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa
Hi reality2...
yes i've read many of your posts and appreciated them-

but the guys don't really have this dilemma - cause on your boards ONLY survivors can post ( a Good rule I agree).

And i love that both can post on F& F- but the posts meaning - it's context- is better understood if we know if it's coming from an F&F or a survivor- even when you do come to the F& F board, you already know who the MSers are from having been able to know immediately by their participation on the MS board.

but on the F&F boards it's a perpetual difficulty- and none of us need the extra stressor. usually an F&F who finds his/her way here is quite stressed already and looking for learning and to understand- anything that lessens confusion would serve that need. I agree once you're very familiar and have spent many hours here you can tell a lot (though still not always and overload does play in) but when you're new is when you're so needy for as much clarity as possible so I think it'd be a good thing for moderators /administrators to look at sometime....

MaleSurvivor denotes Membership rather than male survivor status, Maybe if there was a way to denote male survivor id with another term that included the formally non members (i tend to think of us all as members informally), then by default everyone else could be known to be F&F - just thoughts- I'm certainly happy for All that IS here!! Thanks again to ALL who make this site possible!


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#64104 - 01/08/05 03:02 PM Re: Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
An, I have often thought that the status of anybody who comes here should be clear, maybe something for the webmaster to look at.

I agree that it is a minefield. When you first come here you are so hungry for information. You just want answers to so much hurt.

I don't often post in the F&F forum, as I dont think it is fair, but if I think I can help, then I post a reply.

I can appreciate that you all do a tremendous job here, and I have learned a lot from visiting this forum, many dont even venture in here.

I can gain valuable insight into how it hurts you. But every relationship is different, everyone has a different background.

Some can cope easier than others, some have different economic backgrounds.

I hope we can all be stronger, by sticking together, and teaching, or learning from each other, it is a hard road, but it can also be a great journey of learning life skills.

I wish you well on your journey,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#64105 - 01/08/05 04:03 PM Re: Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
James_dup1 Offline


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
An,
You bring up a good point. You should email one of the mod's or someone on the Board and ask them about this.

James

_________________________
I have more issues than Rolling Stone!


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#64106 - 01/08/05 05:00 PM Re: Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
This is a very pertinent discussion for me.

To my mind it is a myth that being a survivor of sexual abuse gives one some magic power to help someone else who has been sexually abused.

Look at the struggles the male survivors go through on this site in their attempts to be in connection with each other.

As a result of coming to MaleSurvivor I have many friends who are survivors of sexual abuse.
I have also become more aware of histories of sexual abuse in my family of origin as well in other 'families' that have formed in my life.

While the actual 'knowledge' I have gained here, i.e. articles, statistics, perspectives etc. have been most helpful, they are no substitute for the type of learning I must do in order to connect with others.

That must be lived and learned. MaleSurvivor attempts to provide a safe environment where that living and learning can happen. And does a pretty good job of it.

The segregration that occurs in the F&F forum is gender based and not based on history of abuse.

I am very happy that friends and families of male survivors are present on this board.

As I stated earlier, I too am a friend and family of survivors myself. I think of this as a place where I can come to get love and support.
And share what little experience I have.

I'm off the topic now, so I shall stop, except to say that I'm grateful to you all and to this place.

Thanks,

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#64107 - 01/08/05 06:01 PM Re: Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
This is a good point Danny,
Quote:
The segregration that occurs in the F&F forum is gender based and not based on history of abuse.
There are some F&F survivors. There are also some male F&F. And really the purpose of this forum is for everyone whose life has been affected by male sexual abuse to discuss relationships with friends and family.

Survivors have always been welcome to come to this forum not only to offer advice, but to discuss their own issues with spouses, friends, kids, etc.

I don't think we are an overwhelmingly large community here. Ask and learn. If you feel that your status as survivor, partner, male, female, whatever, is relevant to what you're saying, mention it in your post so that people can decide for themselves.

I have noticed that a lot of "new" F&F posters really want to hear from male survivors who identify themselves as part of this survivor community. I think some of that has to do with anxiety or inability to get answers and support from the "real life" survivor. It's been my experience that as I became more comfortable talking to my own boyfriend about his SA and its effects, I found myself asking less of "the guys" and more of the F&F.

But as ste says we're all different. There's no guarantee that what you hear from a male survivor on this forum will match what your boyfriend thinks and feels better than what you hear from a partner. I think the point is, it's more important to compare what you read from anyone here with your real life and instincts than it is to judge what you read here based on the gender of the poster.

It's probably not on topic for this thread, but I've wondered a few times if any of the male survivors here been in the position of supporting a SA survivor and if they've had similar reactions to some of the "information" that's out there for secondary survivors-- specifically the non-advice that assumes the worst of male partners of female survivors ("Don't yell at your wife about her assault... don't go beat up the attacker..." :rolleyes: )


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#64108 - 01/08/05 06:14 PM Re: Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa
reality wrote-
Quote:
I don't often post in the F&F forum, as I dont think it is fair, but if I think I can help, then I post a reply.
UGH- i don't agree that "it's not fair"- i see it as totally right and would consider it a deprivation if you couldn't post here-

and gotta say i do see it differently than dwf and i think the male survivor only posting rule is important and right.

and i see the f&F board as non-gender based. we are here for our needs in relation to their's and as the Universe would have it, what's good for us,IS good for them. and this helps us see it in the midst of the temporary insanity the damage often brings on..

i guess i'd vote just for a de>

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#64109 - 01/08/05 06:37 PM Re: Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
In terms of being sensitive when responding to posts (triggers etc):

1. These forums are public. Anyone can read them, many people who don't post are still reading. Please, put a trigger warning on a post if you think it will trigger. Be sensitive to the whole community. Just because whoever started the thread won't mind, doesn't mean it isn't going to bother someone else.

2. The best way to avoid flareups is for everyone to use Respect and Restraint. If a post bothers you, or if you are not sure whether or not something you have to say is respectful-- Wait 24 hours. Read and reread. Remember we are all speaking from personal experience. Use the mods to report offensive posts or PMs rather than responding on the boards.

3. If you want to know where someone is coming from, ask and let them tell you. Or do what "newbies" do on most boards-- read first, until you have a sense of who's speaking and what's going on. Personally I am glad that I have to read many posts and exchange words myself with the people here to learn about their lives, instead of reading it off of a label next to their avatar or in their profile.


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#64110 - 01/08/05 07:11 PM Re: Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
An,

I like the idea of the i.d., issue.

I think, just last week Lloydy posted a link in the survivors forum to an item in the F&F, to get our opinion on a subject similar or the same as what we are talking about here.

Some guys replied, others did not.

Quote:
UGH- i don't agree that "it's not fair"- i see it as totally right and would consider it a deprivation if you couldn't post here-
I have had a lot of PMs from F&F, they have all been positive, and I would always try and help with any issue. I have to be guarded in my reply, as it is only how an issue can affect me, and maybe not the answer you are looking for in your own set of circumstances.

I will have to say this though. From my time of coming here, the male abuse issue is common ground in how it affects each and every one of us. Yes, I thought I was going insane until I came here, then I saw what others had been through, and it all adds up to the same thing.

We have all had to deal with much the same problems, we mostly have used the same tools to get ourselves out.

I have not found it easy to share this with past girlfriends, but if I have shared it, I find it builds into a much stronger bond than anyone can imagine.

If you feel strongly about something troubling you, then why not ask one of us to post the link into the other forums, this can be beneficial, because it will seek more participation of us.

SAR, mentions rereading posts, yes, i have read things and they have triggered me, so I wait, and go back to see if anyone else has taken it the same way, I then reread it, if I find it still of triggering nature, I will ask the author to class it as such. Or ask the mods to investigate.

Replying on these boards, is not the same as face to face, or a telephone conversation, we dont see the body language or the tone of voice, so we can only imagine the frame of mind of the poster, which is a pity.

I am not writing so good these days, but I hope it helps,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#64111 - 01/09/05 02:19 AM Re: Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
I guess that I would say that I am against labels because I feel that they can be misleading and inaccurate.

What is most important is what's in a persons heart and their ability or willingness to express it.

By my comment regarding gender segregation, I meant only that F&F is the only forum where women are allowed to post.

Whether or not that gender based exclusion is right or necessary is not for me to decide. I am willing to accept the group will in this case.

However, creating barriers between survivors and their families and friends is not a part of my personal recovery. Male survivors must also learn how to exist with other male survivors much as families and friends do.

I think this discussion is a great example of how much our common interests coincide.

I appreciate all of you for the way you make me feel about myself.

Thanks again.

Regards,

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#64112 - 01/18/05 10:58 AM Re: Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa
Just what I feared has happened! and I'm upset someones hurt now- By not knowing I was a F & F , a male survivor was responding to my writing thiniking I was a Male Survivor (just like I used to whenever I saw the Male Survivor member label when I was new) and he feels like I deliberately betrayed him which of course is very very upsetting to me. So I will say stronger now that I think we do need to know whose F&F in their role and this board and whose a MS. - WHENEVER IT'S SAFETY AND TRUST ISSUES I think it should be considered- everyone feeling safe here is too important.

I am feeling absolutely terrible right now cause I never dreamed it wasn't obvious that I was a female writing and now this guy feels betrayed- I don't understand why anyone considers it labeling in a bad way. I think a notation that says F&F makes sense- EVEN IF it's just by the MALE SURVIVOR MEMBER LABEL- because this guy was confused EXACTLY like i was when I came here and thought that meant a "Male" Male Survivor member- it's only logical!

I wish a moderator would just bring this up for the safety of the guys- i know they have the safety of knowing on the MS boards all are MS but since they're in the F&F boards too and we do PM them this confusion can happen-
the answer that after you read you can telll misses the heart of the problem- NEW people who we all know are the most vulnerable/tentative about being her are MISLED by that Male survivor member label - I know it's not the intention but it IS the result and obviously now, not just for me- i'm sad and upset that someone thinks I was trying to misrepresent myself as a Male Survivor- he doesn't even realize I don't put that label there- thanks


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#64113 - 01/18/05 11:35 PM Re: Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
An
This is a problem we recognised a short time ago, and we have had a brief think about it on the Mod's forum. But as yet no decision as to what to do.

So, why not discuss it here ( I'll also post this on the Male Survivors Forum ) to see what comes up.

Do we want to add a small logo by our names denoting our sex, or do we feel that we're OK as we are?
That's if we can actually do it of course.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#64114 - 01/19/05 12:09 AM Re: Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
my suggestion for Identifying

1) posters displayed name
2) gender
3) survivor
4) Friend
5) Family
6) Also a listing of whether the displayed poster is a survivor of SA whether in the Friends and Family section or any other Section
7)paid member status

let the displayed name poster check as many areas that label them properly.

Sammy


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#64115 - 01/19/05 01:41 AM Re: Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa
Llody,
I'd very much appreciate you explaining this on the male forum as I'm hoping the offended guy will see - I'm here as an F& F but I am also a grad student working on a counseling degree and the gentleman who felt betrayed feels now an Added DISTRUST of counseling since he knows I'm working toward that because he responded to my PMs several times thinking I was a Male Survivor because of the Male Survivor Member label- I just don't know why the administrators wouldn't see that that sort of misunderstanding is happening BY SITE DESIGN, even though it's not the site's intention- maybe the label should be for us F& F MS site supportor or something of that nature because who wouldn't think Male Survivor means male survivor.

I am most upset at having had a Detrimental contribution to someone I wrote because I'd felt so much for his situation . This fellow's CSA was by his mother.He now feels my misrepresentation is another mark of how women can't be trusted. I hope one of the men can explain this to him, as I know he does not wish to hear, and I think it's safe to assume, he would not trust the explanation from me. For me personally I'm just frustrated (cause I didn't join MS for this to happen) but for him I'm really sad and feel awful- surprised to find myself so emotional about it and of course suspect, knowing my BF's sensitivities, just know how bad what he thinks is betrayal via this site (and of course via me) , feels to him. I won't say more but I hope especially the misleading Male Survivor member label can be ammended asap! thanks !
ps i have learned my lesson to try to remember to spell out at the beginning of any pms to MS's that I am female. - my intention wasn't to see this but I was just thinking of how his reaction to my emails retroactively changed in finding that they were from a female, not a male and how that's an interesting thing to think about - the same words from a male were welcomed, but from a female, not so. I know for us F&Fs, there's meaning there. I guess sometimes it's not what we say at all, but just the fact that we're a female saying it. I understand it, at a whole new level now I guess!


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#64116 - 01/19/05 07:02 PM Re: Question re site IDs?&how others feel-
Abby Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 36
I guess this is something that naturally happens when a community enlarges: more people participating means surely more possibilities for thought sharing so for positive growing and benefits for each others, but inevitably this could bring also more chances for possible misunderstandings. It happens in all forums about whatever matter of interest (hobby, fandom, etc.) and Male Survivor cannot be an exception to this rule of life.

Surely the first priority should be anyway to protect male survivors from even unintentional hurt, so I agree with An that for F&F forum it would be an improvement to apply further web techniques in order to avoid hurting whenever possible.

I personally think that an indication about the sex of the subscriber plus a family&friend or male survivor personal situation would be enough to avoid misunderstandings.

Thank you everybody for taking care of this wonderful place. I donít post much as I feel most of the times completely inadequate and I fear to say something wrong even if in good faith. But I read every thread and you cannot know how helpful you are for me.

Abby


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