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#64092 - 01/24/03 11:32 AM Can someone please explain?
Louise2323 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 12
Loc: New York
I thank you all for responses to my recent post. If you don't mind, I have a question about my friends behavior. As I had stated before, he had been going to therapy for about 5 months ( and he did admit he needed it then, and that it was helping) but has since had a total change of attitued, and no longer feels he needs anyone. His drinking has gotten incredibly worse, and he doesn't see it. But his behavior last night puzzles me, perhaps one of you guys can help me out in what he is feeling or thinking.....
He knows that I don't agree with his out of control drinking, but he also knows that I will not bother him about it right because I don't want him to avoid me. He did promise me he would not drive while drinking, with the exception of from one place down the block from his house. I don't agree with that either, but that agreement was the best I was going to get from him. Now, his whole crashdown leading to therapy was a DWI, how quickly he forgets, and still insists when he drinks that he is not drunk or is in control.
Last night my hubby and I knew he was going out for a while, and then he was supposed to come home to our house to sleep, because hubby was working all night and I have been getting threating phone calls during the night. For whatever reason "Tom" started calling my hubby on his radio (they have those Nextel 2-way radios) and telling him how he was drinking. Of course my hubby was showing concern, and telling him to make sure he called if he needed a ride, and not to drive. Well, according to my hubby, Tom continued to "taunt" him for the next couple of hours about how he was a big boy,and he could take care of himself, and nobody has to worry about him...all the while letting him know he was still drinking. He had his beer muscles on, as hubby put it. The madder my hubby got, the more he kept it up. Needles to say, he never came over, and I am sure it was to avoid the wrath of me (When it comes to him driving drunk, I have NO patience, and I let him know that). Hubby passed his house this morning on the way home (he is only around the block) and his car was there....I am hoping that someone else drove it home for him, but I doubt it.
Why was he boasting about his drinking, knowing it was making my hubby mad? Hubby doesn't deal with him with delicate gloves like I seem to, mostly for the fact that he doesn't understand all of this that is going on, and why he is this way, and also because he has very little patience for what he considers to be just stupidity. He has told Tom on numerous occasions to grow up, so I know Tom was well aware of this reaction he was going to get from his friend.
Should I bring this up to him today? I am supposed to stop at his house in an hour to pick up some paperwork, and I don't know if I should just ignore it,or ask him about it....Someone please help me figure him out, maybe if I knew what he was thinking I could help him without letting him know I was doing so.
Thanks!
Louise


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#64093 - 01/24/03 01:31 PM Re: Can someone please explain?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Louise

I remember that feeling well, "I AM INVINCIBLE - I DON'T GIVE A SHIT !"

Unfortunately I have seen it in two very close friends as well, since I discoverd that I was a mere mortal. But they haven't got that figured out yet, their mortality I mean.
They still drink like 'heroes' and nothing their loved ones, or their close friend said had a scrap of influence with them.
I no longer see them, it's too distressing for me, but I know drink will kill them.

Luckily I didn't drink to that extent, although I was a very heavy drinker for a while.
My feeling of invincibility was my acting out, I took huge risks for the adreniline rush, and I believed I could control it, I couldn't.
I had to have help to stop it.

But first I had to make the decision that I needed help, and that's the difference between my two friends and me. I accepted help, they chose to remain invincible.
I know how hard it is to control addiction, the adreniline and the sex both had me gripped

Both of my old friends have lost their wife and husband respectivly, I'm still married ( 28 years ) but it was close.

I dont suppose this is what you want to hear, I'm sorry, but there's no way you can drag someone kicking and screaming back to reality.

Only his choice will take him there, and I admire your choice to support him until then.

Look after yourself, and YOUR husband.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#64094 - 01/24/03 02:24 PM Re: Can someone please explain?
Louise2323 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 12
Loc: New York
Thank you Lloydy, for your honesty. I wouldn't want to hear anything other than the truth.

When I first made my decision to help, and believe me, I did research before deciding, I thought I knew what to expect as far as setbacks, outbursts and stuff like that. I also knew it would be hard for me to see him in pain, but if in the end he was just a little better off it would all be worth it to me. What I never expected is how much pain I would feel over him, and over feeling of helplessnes in all of this. I accept he is going to do whatever he wants to, but it certainly doesn't make me happy. I am hoping that by backing off, he will come back in time.
Since he admitted to needing help at one point, do you think he will ever admit to that again? What was it for you that made you realize you were out of control, and needed to seek help?
I admire you guys greatly...your strenght is amazing and all of you on here should be very proud of yourselves and all that you have accomplished. And the fact that you continue to struggle in your own life, yet choose to help others in similar situations, well that brings tears to my eyes. I don't think I could ever thank you enough for sharing your lives with me, and helping me try to understand and deal with what I have chosen for my life.
I know I will never break the promise I made in helping Tom, no matter how bad he gets, but I am prepared to shut my eyes for a while....to avoid some of my own pain in this....I just don't think I am ready to do that just yet.
Louise \:\)


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#64095 - 01/24/03 06:55 PM Re: Can someone please explain?
Les_Angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 195
It sounds like Tom is really out of control. I don't think your husband should have to tolerate that kind of behavior, even if Tom is in need. I don't like the dynamic of him being close to you and hostile to your husband.

Sounds like he might get drunk one night and pull out the dueling pistols or something (so to speak). I would try to lay down some boundaries for Tom. I went through really tough times, but when I hear how close he is to you and what he says to your husband, it sounds like "something is going down in Funkytown" (if you know what I mean). Do you think its possible you might be throwing out any romantic vibe unintentionally?

Mo Healing


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#64096 - 01/24/03 07:22 PM Re: Can someone please explain?
Louise2323 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 12
Loc: New York
Hi Les_Angry....I understand your thoughts completely. Tom is close to my husband as well, just in different aspects...the fire dept, video games, dinner buddies and that type. I wouldn't say they are good at sharing feelings though, especially about his abuse.But this is the first time he acted this way to hubby, and in fact I did speak to Tom today and he told me he was just "Busting Balls", and that hubby was the only person who knew who was up all night. Apparently he wasn't having all that much fun at the bar he was at.
As far as sending off romantic vibes, I don't really feel that is an issue between us...we are more like brother and sister I would venture to say. He knows I love him very much, and I have told him so, but not in a romantic way. This may sound weird, but Tom actually improved hubby and my relationship....if it weren't for Tom helping my hubby change (go figure) I would've have left him. And as far as Tom's feeling for me, I don't think they are anywhere in that range....that is something that would be so out of character for him. I hope I am not making him out to be a monster...in all actuallity, he is the kindest, sweetest, most sensitive, couragous, and loyal person I know. And his innocense in all of this intrigues me...It is like dealing with child, and to look into his eyes, that is what I see; a wounded little boy.
I just wish this little boy would let someone help him.
Thanks for your thoughts!


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#64097 - 01/24/03 08:02 PM Re: Can someone please explain?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Louise

Thank you for your kind words, they mean a lot to all of us here.

I hope you have got your boundaries sorted, and you keep you and your husband at the top of your list.
You aren't going to be any use to anyone if your relationship falls apart.
But, you do seem to have thought that out, so if you are going to help your friend then all I can suggest is 'be there for him'. And involve your husband as well. Agree mutually any actions you take to avoid the most hateful phrase in any relationship - "I told you so"

Let your friend know you care, but don't let him take advantage, and don't let him believe that you'll pick up the pieces when he falls.

SA has so many aspects of disturbance, and alcohol only makes a bad thing worse. The chances are he's drinking to forget. Hands up all those who found that to work ?????

Quote:
What was it for you that made you realize you were out of control, and needed to seek help?
Hitting rock bottom. Giving BJ's to strangers in public places. Suicidal thoughts and tendancies.
Stress. Depression. Lack of sleep. Nightmares. Flashbacks... the list goes on. It's a world of shit.
But the disfunctional behaviour that I was doing was my defence at the time, it's what got me through the day - for over 30 years.

Then suddenly one day sitting having dinner with my wife I said "when I was a kid I was sexually abused, help me"
Somehow I had awakened the few sane brain cells I had left and figured out what was happening to me.
I'd seen George Michael on TV after his Hollywood arrest, and a British politician George Davies caught cruising for sex, and they had said they had "problems and were getting help"
Help ?? I didn't know there was help until then, so I looked around a bit, found a counselling charity, and told my wife.

It was a messy route, full of chances, but it was MY route. I can look back and see that there were many times I wanted to say something and nearly did, but they couldn't have been the right time.
When I did disclose and get help it was the right time.

Stick with your friend, he might not realise what a true friend he has in you, but he might figure out that when the chips are down you're the one he can rely on.
And we all need someone to rely on.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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