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#63981 - 01/19/03 03:57 PM Amazing group of men
bwashington Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 2
Loc: washington
I've read many of the conversations that have taken place on this discussion board, and have been continually astounded by all of your strength, and perseverence. I apologize ahead of time if it upsets anyone that I am a young woman, but I write in tremendous concern for a man who I seek to understand, out of love. It has become real to me that I can never understand his pain, or any of yours. I wish for him so deeply, THIS type of support, but he is so far behind it seems in his healing process. I cannot get him to see a therapist, or at this point, even speak to me, but the fact remains that we have conceived a child. I really don't know what it is I should share, or even ask, except if he was you, what would you need from me? It is nothing short of amazing reading these stories, and thoughts, because he is one and the same with all of you, it;s like revelation after revelation. Because I can't begin to understand on my own. I'm printing out this retreat registration application for him, what are your thoughts regarding this? If anyone feels able to talk with me about this more in depth, I can't tell you how much I would appreciate it. He has been drowning for his entire life, he has made amazing turnarounds from drugs, and alcohol, and I believe in him. He doesn't trust anyone. His father was his perpatrator, his entire childhood, he died in a motorcycle accident. He was in a 4-man prayer group for 2 years, and never mentioned anything. He has been diagnosed with bipolar, now they're saying bipolar 2, but only I seem to know what he is really like, good and bad. And that seems to make him absolutely hate me. You men are amazing, you are compassionate, and very much alive, God bless all of you.

_________________________
BWASHINGTON

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#63982 - 01/19/03 04:42 PM Re: Amazing group of men
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
You have a full plate BWASHINGTON being in a relationship with one of us, especially so shut down, with one of our diagnoses, and a child. I'm afraid there is not much any of us can do until he is ready. It's his choice. We can be here for when he decides he is ready. A therapist sensitive to these issues is crucial, again when he is ready. Some of us have opened up here first before being ready for a therapist. You are doing what you can. Be sure to be taking care of yourself first, and hold him accountable to what you need from him. It sounds like you're there for him. If you can convince him to go to one of the retreats, it would sound very hopeful, again if he is ready. If he is that closed up about his issues and he has opened up to you, that is amazing.
I could not have opened to my wife first.


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#63983 - 01/19/03 04:44 PM Re: Amazing group of men
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
By the way you sound quite amazing yourself. I for one feel very appreciated.
And I also think this is an incredably amazing group of men.


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#63984 - 01/20/03 06:40 PM Re: Amazing group of men
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
ok - we're open for business again, thanks Don for pointing out I had left the topic locked.

Not intentional at all, just me being careless - or is it the onset of 'senior moments ?'

Sorry about that.

Dave \:o \:o

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#63985 - 01/20/03 07:39 PM Re: Amazing group of men
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Bwashington

I do hope you read this, and I apologise completely for messing you around here.

It's as hard as hell to know what to say, what to do, when you suddenly find out that someone you love has been abused. I only experienced watching my wife deal with it.

What she did, and I think a lot of other survivors have had the same experience, is provide support.
It's something so hard to describe, but she accepted where I had been ( in my mind ) what I had done ( actually done - acting out ) with very few questions. She never pushed me, told me to do anything and never ever gave me ultimatums.
she just supported my choices and helped me make them where she could.

Healing has to come from within, at our speed and on our terms. And if that sounds like a bad deal, well I can't help that. BUT the other way would have sent me backwards faster than a rocket !
I just can't cope with being bossed around and told what to do, that's what caused the problems for me in the first place - the abuse of power.

It's a hard thing to ease off and let someone deal with their problems their own way, but don't ease of completely. Talk, encourage and show your love.
Show him that YOU trust him, then maybe he'll trust himself.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#63986 - 01/21/03 12:01 PM Re: Amazing group of men
Don-NY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY
bwashington,

I can't improve upon or add to the advice from RJD and Dave, but I wanted to just say a few things.

First, you say that he won't see a therapist and yet he has been diagnosed with BP, perhaps now BP2. Does this mean he has had involuntary contact and diagnosis from therapists or is this the result of previous attempts at trying to work on this?

If it was involuntary, I can understand his reluctance and distrust. If it was voluntary, but he did NOT discuss the abuse, then I'm guessing that the things he did discuss (behaviors, etc.), could have easily led to an incorrect diagnosis.

If it is a fear of being labeled and judged that holds him back, you might tell him that there is great power and strength in speaking the truth, and DECLARING just who he is (A Survivor) and what he is dealing with.

Tell him there is nothing as powerful as a Man who recognizes that he needs help and then asks for it, finds it.

I see that you mention he has tried many things to cope, drugs, alcohol, prayer.

None of these has worked for him, and they have not worked for the same reason. All of them were a way to avoid, deny and ignore.

He should be proud that he was able to overcome the drugs and alcohol, and proud that he tried such a positive method as a prayer group.

Now he must gather his strength and will, and deal directly with the abuse.

Easily said, I know, but I can't say how to make him see this. As the others have said, the desire must come from within.

It is not easy. It's never easy, and it can take a long, long time, but that time will pass anyway. Better to be in control of this, work on it, then let it work on him and control him.

I don't know his age, but I never started working on this until I was in my mid-40's. I can say for sure, the sooner you start the better.

I identify with him in a few ways. I was in two realtionships in my twenties. In both cases, I told my partner about some of what happened to me, very early in the relationship.

Both of them were supportive, but they instantly became the people I subconsciously feared the most. They knew me! They could somehow use this knowledge against me! They could tell anyone!

It is not surprising that both relationships did not last. Like your friend, I just stopped speaking to them and disappeared - in one case I went from New York to California to get away.

In both cases, if either of them had confronted me, I would have wanted only one thing from them. I would have wanted to hear them say "I will never tell anyone what you told me. Never. And if you need help, I will do what I can."

That alone would have helped me enormously. Since I never heard that from them, I had to work extra hard to deny and avoid the truth, to bury it again, and so wasted more and more years.

I wonder if he feels that telling the truth would be a betrayal of his father. I can understand that, especially if he had any sense of relief or gladness when his father died.

He should remember that he was betrayed. His life, his development, his very existence was disrupted, devalued, and damaged.

He can work to overcome this damage, and until he does, he is betraying himself. And now, he will be betraying his child if he allows the past to continue to control his present and future.

And personally, I don't think a retreat is the first place a man should go to work on this. He should have already started working on this with a therapist and so be able to process the experience with the therapist afterward.

Please remember this is all just one man's opinions and thoughts. I hope some of it is helpful. I wish you all well.

Donald

_________________________
If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

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#63987 - 01/21/03 03:41 PM Re: Amazing group of men
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
***caution may contain triggers***


Donald,
I just wanted to say thank you for putting into words something I myself have done as a survivor for years -- never could quite formulate the words so beautifully but you did

"Both of them were supportive, but they instantly became the people I subconsciously feared the most. They knew me! They could somehow use this knowledge against me! They could tell anyone!"
and : "In both cases, if either of them had confronted me, I would have wanted only one thing from them. I would have wanted to hear them say "I will never tell anyone what you told me. Never. And if you need help, I will do what I can."

and to this day i struggle with that behavior of bailing out when I have disclosed something significant -- not sure if its denial for me or what, not sure even if I care right now -- but thanks, for using the words I could never find.

For me my own personal experience of some of my abusers who died and for those who knew of my abuse that had died --- one in particular I went to her grave:, she had seen her husband (my main abuser) molesting me yet again -- called him on it
he had taken me to get my drivers license, and all the drive back fondled me and mind fucked me over and over, his wife drove up in the driveway behind us as we were parked and he was having his way yet again --- caught the fucker red handed, she screamed at him , they went into the house to fight as I sat in that car frozen -- far too frightened to move -- i don't remember leaving or how i got home or even the rest of that day -- but I clearly remember her voice her screaming, him screaming at each other -- years later i went to her grave, she had died a horrible death from a brain tumor... i sat upon her grave and asked her WHY? WHY HAD SHE NOT PROTECTED ME? I asked her why if she could say to him "You've got fucking pecker tracks all up and down your crotch" she couldnt come to me and rescue me from all of the past years of abuse, and the ones to follow --
I am not sure if it did me any good to cry and yell upon her grave -- at the time it did
it did not change the past, not sure it changed the future -- but I spoke to her and something tells me she heard (probably that other little person in me).... At some point I began to feel more pity for HER than for me... to live with that bastard, to be more frozen than I was in that car, to be punished by such a horrible slow death... she paid HIS price
and for Bwashington,
I hope my ranting raving venting yelling etc does not frighten you off from coming here for support -- so far its a good place for some mighty ugly stuff to deal with --
You're heart must be golden and you are so brave to come and share....
Take care of YOU along the way
Wifey1


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#63988 - 01/21/03 08:25 PM Re: Amazing group of men
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Wifey
Quote:
I hope my ranting raving venting yelling etc does not frighten you off
It scares the hell out of me !!
Eek!

Only joking \:D you sweep through the crap like a breath of fresh air, and I love it.

But seriously, this caught my eye -
Quote:
i sat upon her grave and asked her WHY? WHY HAD SHE NOT PROTECTED ME? I asked her why if she could say to him "You've got fucking pecker tracks all up and down your crotch" she couldnt come to me and rescue me from all of the past years of abuse, and the ones to follow --
The headmaster at my school discovered that I had been beaten and raped by a gang of abour 6 older boys, and did nothing.
He let the bastards off and punished me for lying and being 'out of bounds' and having the cigarettes that they gave me as payment.
I was given 6 strokes of the cane while my arse was still bleeding !

And I hate him far more than all my sex abusers put together, he failed to protect me - the biggest mind fuck of them all.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#63989 - 01/22/03 03:25 AM Re: Amazing group of men
serafina Offline
Member

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 36
Loc: Washington
bwashington:

I understand how you are feeling. I too am in a relationship with a man that I love very much. Good and bad and believe me, there will be lots of bad, but he is a wonderful person. He too, buried all his memories and became a workaholic, drug addict and alcoholic, but has overcome them all. He didn't start going to therapy until I met him and it has been an incredibly difficult road. You can't help him until he is ready. Make sure you set boundaries because if and when he starts opening up to you and trusting you he will have lots of anger and confusion and you being close to him will get alot of his frustration. If you love him, keep visiting here, you will need support too. Or find a partners support group. Just keep giving him information and keeping believing in him and he can use that information when he is ready. Take care of yourself first. That can be easy to forget!!!


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