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#63941 - 01/04/05 05:45 PM Incursion into hostile ground...
Aden Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 499
TRIGGER WARNING ( In replies further down this topic )

This is my first post on this forum. I am afraid of what I have to say. But I need to say it anyway. Some truth and a little humor. For those of you who love us, please try to understand.

When a sexually abused child takes charge of his own soul from within the body of a full grown and experienced man, the repercussions can be devastating. To everyone within his reach. I am not suggesting that you simply deal with it. It is a force of nature. Deal with it or not. I guarantee that all he wants is honest nonjudgmental love. Acceptance. Forgiveness. Hope.
Put a quiet warm hand on the back of his neck in a moment of need. Focus all of your positive energy into that hand and pray for the natural salvation of his well being. And expect nothing.
Give the love you want. Act on the hope you hold. And unless he raises his hand to hurt you, forgive his failure to fulfill your dreams.

He hurts. You hurt. Heal together. It is not his fault. Nor is it yours. Both of you must let up on the blame game.

And could we do paragraphs instead of stream of consciousness? (This is a joke) Organize your bombast! At least hold off on your condemnation long enough to indent or separate paragraphs! Take a breath! Non stop complaint is not attractive or reassuring.

Now I am expecting a bloody nose when next I read this forum. Why? Go figure.

Aden


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#63942 - 01/04/05 07:23 PM Re: Incursion into hostile ground...
Emerald Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 21
Loc: here
Hi. This is my first post. I just had to say thanks for showing up in this section! Maybe it's the title ... "Family and Friends" that makes it difficult for survivors to post here?

Thanks for the words of wisdom. I tried, but my self esteem wasn't enough to make it through, I guess. I'm here to learn.

Thanks.
Emerald


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#63943 - 01/04/05 08:49 PM Re: Incursion into hostile ground...
Iantt Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 13
Loc: U.S.
I have not responded to anyone's posts here because this is too new with me. It took my partner nearly fifteen years to tell me. I have sought some help for myself to understand and to be a better help to him. But you have given some clear and simple ideas. Thank you for that.

Ian

_________________________
"Love is like everything else in this world, you have to fight for it" - Anonymous

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#63944 - 01/04/05 09:03 PM Re: Incursion into hostile ground...
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Aden,

Welcome, and please don't expect the worst of us.

Quote:
I am not suggesting that you simply deal with it. It is a force of nature. Deal with it or not. I guarantee that all he wants is honest nonjudgmental love. Acceptance. Forgiveness. Hope.
Quote:
He hurts. You hurt. Heal together. It is not his fault. Nor is it yours. Both of you must let up on the blame game.
The advice you give in your post is sound, if somewhat simplified-- I don't think most of us would disagree with it, certainly not give you a bloody nose for it. In fact, much of the discussion on this forum is an expansion and examination of the things you're saying.

How do two people "heal together?" What enables us to forgive his failures? What goes into the very difficult choice to "deal with it or not?" What does it mean for us, as people and as partners, to act on hope, or to expect nothing? And can you do both of those things at once?

Secondary survivors, especially those of us who've spent years in that role, do need a place where they can discuss that stuff. I'm sure I don't have to tell you it's more complicated than it first appears.

The other very worthwile and important function of this forum is that it gives friends and family a place to come to terms with disclosure. Hearing about the SA of a loved one can produce strong emotions not entirely unlike the ones a survivor himself feels-- that's why people use the term "secondary survivor." And, as you've said, there are some of us who have experienced additional hurt and betrayal through the actions of survivors.

It's important for people just learning about the abuse in a friend or partner's life to have a safe place to vent those emotions, to learn about them and be validated. It's especially important if they are supporting a survivor during this same time. If they have their own betrayal and anger to process, that needs to be understood and validated too. Personally, I never had a problem accepting that my boyfriend wasn't to blame for his acting out. But my acceptance of that didn't make my hurt and anger disappear.

I think it may be some of these posts that you read as condemnation and complaint. It's natural that if these are the emotions we're bringing here to keep them separate from our own relationships, they might also come across as triggering or judgmental to some survivors. I think some well-intentioned F&F posts do trigger survivors and I think that may be part of why. I've heard at least one of the survivors on this site say that he reads people's first posts with the expectation that they'll be triggering-- it might be a good rule to follow in this forum too, for different reasons.

Aden, I hope you'll stick around and read more here, it's not all hostile, it's all hard work but that's not the same thing. Relationships are tough for everyone and probably tougher on survivors, and the partners here represent different types of relationships at all different stages. Like everything else, you have to figure out what you can use and leave the rest. ;\)

SAR


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#63945 - 01/04/05 10:23 PM Re: Incursion into hostile ground...
beautifuldisaster Offline
Member

Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 85
Loc: usa
I am brand new here as of yesterday. I want to say all involved here have been so helpful to me. I am a wife. I have suffered for 2.5 years in a wonderful relationship things I just couldnt put my finger on. I knew about what happened to my husband prior to our getting married, but had no idea until recently that the marry-go-round we have been on living on actually stemmed from this.
Call me ignorant, but my husband masked it so well that I feel as if I have been Alice falling down the well wondering what in the heck was going on. NONE OF IT HAS MADE SENSE!
Now finally, I am relieve to say.....EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE.
Your words are so helpful in my working with my honey. He is so kind and gentle, yet so hurt and angry. I see that in my actions instead of helping him in the past, I have hurt him constantly by trying to get him to do things he wasnt capable of doing.
I need direction, and the surviors are my touch-stones......my teachers in helping me evolve and heal with the man I love. I too am a victim of this circumstance. I too have been in emotional whirlwind of pain. I want to find peace in this for both him and myself.
At the same time the f and f in here are my advocates, and reality checks. I have been so distraught, I swear sometimes I felt like I was on candid camera.....
because one minute it was as it should be between a husband and wife......and the next I felt like I was just thrown off a wild bull. And I didnt even know I bought the ticket for the ride!
Please know we can learn so much from each other.
I think we crave that.
I will not be a victim. You all, this forum....are educating me to be the spouse of a survior. I am a survior by proxy.
I cant say though, that it doesnt hurt.
My husband has 28 years of shielding himself and dealing with things I have only just experienced.
I feel like I have stepped off an emotional cliff.


Take care, and peace be with all.

_________________________
I AM THE MASTER OF MY DREAMS,
I AM THE CAPTAIN OF MY SOUL-

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#63946 - 01/04/05 10:58 PM Re: Incursion into hostile ground...
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Aden, What have F&F been missing? You.
You're analogy is spot on, something that I could never have put into words so comprehensivelly.

I would expect to see this in the preface of a really good book for survivors. I tend to read the preface of a book and decide to buy it, or put it back on the shelf. I would definitely buy yours.

You have a very creative talent in thinking, something that is so uncommon in the World.

It is strange that when we do really speak from our inner self, that we expect ridicule or hurt, because that is what we always grew up with.

Our hard wiring was damaged, but our inner thinking is always so much more thought out, and we sometimes/always expect the ridicule, so we shut up and put up.

Spot on post,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#63947 - 01/05/05 04:09 PM Re: Incursion into hostile ground...
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
I've re read the original post several times.

What I am able to comprehend or understand in the posting is that as a partner to a male survivor -- I should give all with my support, expect nothing from him in return -- and what I do post comes across as non stop complaints. Which in turn makes me appear unattractive and non reassuring.
Thank you for validating the message that my separated spouse has been telling me for a very long time, but not so elequently (sp).
May your journey be a peaceful one,
Sammy


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#63948 - 01/05/05 05:03 PM Re: Incursion into hostile ground...
Aden Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 499
Sammy,

Short, sweet, direct and a touch of satire. Much better! I had expected a broken nose, two black eyes, and the immediate need for a plastic surgeon to reconstruct my chewed off ears. But what I got was a slightly defensive, self doubting rebuff.

No, you should not give everything you have and expect nothing in return. You should give everything you can and expect as little as possible.

It is in no way my intention to validate your estranged spouse. I donít know him or give a fig about him. But if he has been telling you these things and I (a total and uninvolved stranger) seem to reaffirm those things, then there may be some validity to the assessment.

Male survivors have to face some pretty harsh truths about themselves and their relationships. And apparently so do some of their partners. I wrote some things specifically for you, to help you, to show you what I saw. It wasnít for you Hubby. It was FOR you. In your favor. To your assistance.

I did not call you out. You saw yourself in what I wrote. You have enough awareness of where you are to use that awareness in a powerfully positive way. Should you chose to do so.

Your husband was a victim. You donít have to be a victim of a victim. Instead you could be a pillar of strength for him. Or not. It is a choice.

Aden


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#63949 - 01/05/05 05:30 PM Re: Incursion into hostile ground...
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa
Aden & others- I always very much appreciate the guys participation on this board- and i am glad to have Aden's reactions to things read here- am constantly trying to understand more but I sure understand the bottom post too.

But as I edit i want to say that this strands title says it all- the core of the problem when we're perceived as hostile, as the "enemy" vs being perceived as desperately wanting to be supportive. i'd say it's incursion into loving ground , not hostile ground and that very misperception is at the core of the craziness described above. and again thanks for posting here- we do need the dialogue! An


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#63950 - 01/05/05 06:20 PM Re: Incursion into hostile ground...
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
Aden,
Those of us who participate in the F& F have been asked to follow the guidelines and not post in the male survivor forum. I respect that, it has been suggested more than once that if a F&F has a comment or ? for a male survivor to post it in this forum and to notify a moderator so that they can contact the male survivors.
Quote:
I wrote some things specifically for you, to help you, to show you what I saw. It wasnít for you Hubby. It was FOR you. In your favor. To your assistance.

I did not call you out. You saw yourself in what I wrote. You have enough awareness of where you are to use that awareness in a powerfully positive way. Should you chose to do so.

I am unsure exactly what it is you wrote "specifically for me", but if you did please re write them so that I know you are posting this directly to me, not to the entire F&F, it would have saved some confusion for me.

You also are aware enough of your language skills to use your own awareness in a powerfully positive way, should you choose to.

1) this is not hostile ground, as so implied in your title

2)
Quote:
And could we do paragraphs instead of stream of consciousness? (This is a joke) Organize your bombast! At least hold off on your condemnation long enough to indent or separate paragraphs! Take a breath! Non stop complaint is not attractive or reassuring.
You stated this was a joke, but your language used was specific enough to understand for even the simpliest of minds to read into this that the way some posters write and post you find as "complaints", unattractive nor reassuring. This forum should be a "safe place" for partners which includes not being criticized either indirectly nor directly on any matter.

Yes, I did find your post offensive enough to respond to it. Over the past approximate year or so I have seen far too many argumentative postings go on when someone intentionally tosses in a "hidden hostile" posting.

Quite simply, I stay out of the male forums, as do most f&f (some newer posters make mistakes) -- perhaps your comments regarding partners of survivors could be kept to the male forums.
Simply -- I'll stay on my side of the fence if you stay on your side.
Sammy


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