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#63721 - 12/02/02 01:01 PM horrible horrible fight
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Hi..

I just had to write to get this off my chest. My BF and I had the *worst* fight on Friday night, one that led to me being injured.

It started again with us discussing the future. My bf is really difficult to discuss the future with - I want to seriously discuss how our relationship may play out in the next few years (marriage, kids, etc). We are both on the verge of our mid 30's (I will be 33 next month and he will be 34 in the spring) and not married, and we both want kids (2). Due to the age/time/biological clock factor, there is some urgency... we both want to be married first, but my bf can't say when he might be ready to "take the plunge".

Yes, the big problem is that he is still working through his SA issues. He simply is not ready to handle this kind of commitment just yet. And I cannot disagree with that - how can I? It just will take the time that it will take for him to get through this. But I can't ignore my own feelings and desires for my life and my fears that I will not be able to have healthy children in my late 30's and early 40's, and worry how I will be able to get over that - will I be resentful if I stay with my BF and my dreams of motherhood are crushed? Will I regret leaving him if I choose to do so? I just dont know...

So, lately I've been scared that this relationship is doomed because of all the work he has to do to get ready. I know I can't change him and I have to accept him for who he is. I know that, but lately that is getting harder and harder to do, as I fear my dream of being a wife and mother may not happen if I stay with him.

So... I get scared, and he gets scared.. I try to tell him my concerns and feelings and he gets hurt.. and we fight. We have been stuck on this particular topic since about march/april of last year and its really taking a toll on the relationship. I have even started seriously thinking about walking away from the relationship. Its just so horrible because I do love him a lot, and we are old friends, but sometimes I think that love isn't enough and timing is everything.

I got so upset about this that I asked him to leave - whenever we start talking about this topic he always brings up his friend who is 40 years old and just had her first kid. At that point my fears are compounded by the anger I feel due to not being istened to.

Anyhow, some horrible things were said and done during this fight - including him hurling such insults and horrible words... calling me a "fucking bitch", telling me he didnt care about doing anythign anymore that was not for his own benefit, how he was going to be totaly selfish from now on (I have a difficult time discerning when people are just "blowing smoke" due to growing up with a suicidal father - I tend to take EVERY comment as serious). After awhile I was in so much pain I went numb.. and was very close to snapping..

I was already in a lot of pain due to the underlying mismatch in our relationship at the time.. and then he proceeds to hurl such painful comments to me. Pulling out insecurities and throwing them at me.... I was sobbing uncontrollably at times, and for some reason, my BF verbally attacks me even more when I'm like that. Telling me to shut up that I'm making things worse for myself, that I'm keeping him awake, how I'm causing him to have the "worst fuckign sleep he's ever had in his life", etc.

We went back and forth between our two apartments several times, each of us throwing the other out.. and eventually it appeared to me that the relationship was over - from what he was saying to me it sounded like he wanted to end it.

All indications were that he had dumped me, we were both in our own apartments at that time.. and I was just in shock.. by that time I had a total disassociation feeling in my body.. .like I was floating outside myself - I found myself doing things and not even being aware of them. I found myself trying to call him but he was refusing to answer the phone. .and then I found myself on my way to his apartment... - I should have just let things sit.. but it was like I was on autopilot.. at times like this (like every break up I've been through) I start thinking of the way my life is... how horrendously dysfunctional my "support network" (family) is (suicidal, unsupportive, alcoholic metally ill father, equally depressed brother in an abusive relationship with someoen who hates my guts) and that I've not got good friends to lean on because I'm still rather new in this city (and yes I've been in and out of therapy and haven't yet really had much healing on my recent family crises).

So.. after mulling over those nasty tidbits about my current reality I found myself "floating" over to his place (I dont even remember how I got there)... to see if there was anything I could say or do to change things.. I was begging and pleading (how humiliating) - and he refused to talk, refused to open the door past a crack and I stuck my fingers and face in the door to force the lines of communication to remain open all the while he was screaming at me to "get the fuck out of his apartment" and was trying to squish the door on the body parts that were in the door (fingers, face, shoulder). He started banging on my foot with a hard metal bike lock to try and get it out of the way, he started pushing my face out of the door.. poking me in the eyes, scratching my face, etc.

This really has horrified us both. That our pain and hurt could be so bad that we'd do this to each other - me so afraid of being alone that I was not able to give him the safe space he needed, him so angry that he'd lose control like that and feel the need to hurt me verbally and that I could actually get hurt physically.

We've been distraught about it since then - we're not broken up but in fact spent most of the weekend praying, going to church, and really really discussing things, sharing our feelings (which are still very strong and loving) etc. We *FINALLY* respected the fact that we are *BOTH* victims, and that we need to work at healing each other, both giving love and receiving each others love (somethign I am the champ at - discounting and not believing others' positive feelings about myself).

We are just so scared - that we have the potential to be so abusive. That our pain is just that bad. I think for the first time we are able to see just how much in pain we BOTH are, and we both acknowledged that we are both victims, and we both need help. We are currently in therapy but I think this fight has really opened our eyes about what might happen if we dont shape up, and soon. We have prayed for forgiveness over and over.. and we both just cant seem to move past this. We are both very scared.

I know we sound really nutty.. and perhaps the folks on this board and others who have been through abuse are the only people who know what it is like to be that hurting.. if anyone has some words of wisdom, or similar experiences that eventually worked out in the end..... please... please.. I'd be grateful if you'd share.

Soccer


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#63722 - 12/02/02 05:54 PM Re: horrible horrible fight
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Soc
what can I say girl ? that's so sad, I know how hard you've tried, but I can see some good there

Quote:
We are just so scared - that we have the potential to be so abusive. That our pain is just that bad. I think for the first time we are able to see just how much in pain we BOTH are, and we both acknowledged that we are both victims, and we both need help. We are currently in therapy but I think this fight has really opened our eyes about what might happen if we dont shape up, and soon. We have prayed for forgiveness over and over.. and we both just cant seem to move past this. We are both very scared.
You both seem to realise what's going on, maybe not 'why' it's going on just yet, but it'll come I'm sure.

I might be telling you the wrong thing here, or certainly something you might not want to hear, but I'm going to tell you why I resisted having kids.

We've been married 28 years so far and I disclosed to her about 5 or 6 years ago.
My wife is so maternal it's untrue, she plays with babies, looks after other peoples kids, buys them toys and clothes and is generally great with all kids.

I was scared shitless that I could become an abuser, I just didn't know. And I wasn't prepared to take that risk.
Now it's too late it wrecks me.

Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#63723 - 12/04/02 01:44 AM Re: horrible horrible fight
Lil Red Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/29/02
Posts: 14
Loc: Oregon
Lloydy,

Quote:
I was scared shitless that I could become an abuser, I just didn't know. And I wasn't prepared to take that risk.
Now it's too late it wrecks me.
Ouch. My heart goes out to you.

E


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#63724 - 12/04/02 08:30 AM Re: horrible horrible fight
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Soccer (great game, BTW \:D ):

Not sure what to say except that I hurt for you, for both of you; and please be careful. Don't let the urgency you feel about wanting children rush you into a relationship under pressure. Won't be worth it for you or for any children you may have. Take the time you both need to be sure you can have a safe, trusting relationship. My two cents worth, if its worth that much. Take care.

Wuame

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#63725 - 12/04/02 01:23 PM Re: horrible horrible fight
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Lil Red
Thanks, I just borrow nephews and nieces now. Spoil em rotten - hand em back !

Not a bad deal.

Lloydy \:D

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#63726 - 12/08/02 12:26 AM Re: horrible horrible fight
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 613
Wow!! THAT was my story tonight, and I can so appreciate your imput how you see it getting better. I am a male survivor, and she too is a survivor.
Tonight I received an email from a fellow survivor that shook me, hurt me, but was so sincere in saying that I had not opened up and I had been a coward to that point. Those were not his exact words, but it hit hard.
I wrote back fiercly and honestly with my anger and hurt that noone was ever there, had ever been there, and I was so damn mad about it. It was a real relief to get this out to someone who had the strenght to take it.
This all happened right after we got home from being out that evening. While she was showering, I read this email and replied to it, thus having got very very stirred up in it all.
What happened next is that I came out of my room (where I have my computer), and she was waiting in the house for me to help with the Christmas tree as we had planned. But I had been in my room a while. During that time she came in once, I told her quickly "Not now!" and she left the room. I got up and quickly locked it since I did not want to be disturbed in my venting to my email friend. She apparently got miffed about that.
She was packing her stuff to leave (she doesn't live with me), I asked why (calmly), and she wanted to tell me how hurt she was because I hadn't....well, she just wanted me to hear all about her feelings of rejection. I could not listen to it. She then shared honestly and in tears (real ones) that she wanted to stay there since she has to drive very far, I calmly said that I had no problem with setting a bed up for her, but I did not want to talk. I told her I would explain later. I could not tell her now. She did not want to wait; she wanted to vent. I repeated myself. She continued. I told her to leave. I said "I don't want to hurt you (since she thought I was trying to), and that's why I am asking you to please leave." She continued. I said, "You're not hearing my no! Please leave." This went on a few more times, and she finally packed all her stuff, took the stuff she had given me, and even put her engagement ring on my desk.
I don't think I made the wrong choice. I have hated myself for so long thinking anyone's feelings were more important. I couldn't take it anymore this evening. I didn't hurt her in malice. I was wanting to protect her. I truly truly love her. I don't hate her. She needs to know me. I want her. If there is any hope in what you have, I would appreciate a reply, because I know, we know she is stronger than what happened tonight. I hope she will listen. I await your response.


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#63727 - 12/11/02 12:42 PM Re: horrible horrible fight
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Thanks for notifying me about this post - this certainly sounds like the type of thing my BF and I do over and over... on an up note we have really learned from the fight that we both have to shape up and communicate better or we will be better off apart.

Re: your relationship - it doesnt sound like your relationship is doomed despite her leaving the engagement ring. I dont know how many times I have dumped some of my BFs stuff at his apartment (or even some presents he's gotten me, etc.) after a bad fight. Really what I am wanting him to do when I do that is to apologize and acknowledge the hurt he has just thrown at me, rather than break up. However, the fight you had should be a warning sign that there are some seirous tensions that need addressing.

At the minimum - leaving her ring was definitely a sign that she is hurting. You both will have to do some talking and listening to figure out a "plan" of action when these feelings and needs arise in both of you (you needed some space to write at the same time as she needed to talk). Having competing "needs" does take some negotiation and work - work especially is required to talk calmly and rationally when you are NOT feeling that way.

What I have asked my BF for in those situations is NOT to force himself to do something that he just can't do during times of fear/stress/etc. (I had to really learn how to "wait" which is hard for someone like me who has NO patience and feels emotional pain very strongly) I had to really acknowledge that it is just not fair for me to ask something of someone who just can't give it at the time.

Instead, I have asked him to tell me what he needs in a kind and reassuring way when he tells me what he has to do and why. There is a BIG difference between him snapping at me saying "get out I can't talk to you please leave" than for him to say instead "I'm having a difficult time, I'm feeling some anger and weird emotions and I dont know what to do with it, I need you to give me a few hours to figure out this feeling and to do something to feel better. Tomorrow we can get together for a walk or a coffee or a movie or something."

When he talks to me like that there is NO fight. It really helps me to see that he is NOT shutting me out and that he really loves me, but he really needs time and space to do what he has to do.

Anyhow, I hope my experience helps. Too bad my bf and I can't put this into practice every time, however. We are really trying hard.


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#63728 - 12/11/02 04:31 PM Re: horrible horrible fight
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 613
Thank you for your candidness.


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#63729 - 12/11/02 04:52 PM Re: horrible horrible fight
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
I hope I wasn't too candid ?!!??! apologies if I was - again as I mentioned I am convinced that NO relationship is doomed even between people with serious baggage - it all depends on how bad two people want the relationship, how hard they are willing to work on things, and how patient both are willing to be with the process.

soc


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