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#63351 - 08/10/06 12:22 PM marriage
needanswers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 24
I'm curious about how many in here are or have been married previously?


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#63352 - 08/10/06 01:47 PM Re: marriage
george of kent Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: delaware
I was married almost 20 years; three children, five grandchildren.
I am now Gay partnered and have been for almost 27 years.
A lot of the gay guys here at MS have been married; and some of them (most of whom were not "out" to themselves until later in life) are still married to women.
Love, etc.,

_________________________
"We are only two and yet our howling can encircle the world's end.
Frightened, you are my only friend.
And frightened we are, every one.
Someone must take a stand -- Coward, take my coward's hand"
Arthur Laurents

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#63353 - 08/10/06 01:54 PM Re: marriage
needanswers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 24
I find that very concerning. Any tips for women who are in relationships dealing with men of abuse? That would be absolutely devastating for me to find that out after putting time and effort into the relationship.


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#63354 - 08/10/06 03:45 PM Re: marriage
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
i see that the person really means so much to
you if he's unhappy

it's more about you then isn't
it?


and what exactly are 'tips' ?

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#63355 - 08/10/06 03:56 PM Re: marriage
needanswers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 24
It is not about ME. When I went into this relationship, it was about the two of us becoming one, until one of us dies. I went into this relationship healthy, knowing what I wanted, etc. and expected the same from him. He and I had plenty of time to share with each other certain things that we felt to be important to share prior to getting married. Plus, I have children and he knew that this was not something I took lightly. My kids mean the world to me.

There were a few things about my past that I was not thrilled about sharing but felt that if he and I were going to have a healthy relationship, these were things that needed to be out in the open before putting making those vows. IMO, this issue most definitely should have come out before he and I got married. Seriously, we have only been married 11 months and all of a sudden this comes out last week.

I can deal with helping him through it but I will tell you this, if I were to find out later down the line that he is homosexual, YOU BET I'M GONNA BE TICKED. I came into this relationship healthy and most definitely heterosexual (not knocking on those of you who are) and I did come into this with certain expections and I could more than likely say the #1 thing would be that I wouldn't have to worry about his sexual orientation.

As far as the first part of your reply, I honestly don't know what you are getting at with that. The person means so much to me if he's unhappy? I really am not sure what you mean by that.

If you are suggesting that I don't want him to be happy, sure I do. But what about my happiness? If he has been dishonest with me, doesn't exactly make him concerned with my feelings too much, huh?


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#63356 - 08/10/06 04:08 PM Re: marriage
needanswers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 24
mark - as far as the "tips", i suppose i'm just wondering if there is something i should be able to see... sounds as if with some, there is a lot of lying/denying their sexual orientation and i suppose i wonder if there is something that i'm not seeing.


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#63357 - 08/10/06 04:21 PM Re: marriage
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
i think you are definitely in the wrong section

this is a section for Gay men

this is not Friends and Family

that maybe your best solution for finding

"women" in a simliar situation

I suggest you look there -

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#63358 - 08/10/06 04:31 PM Re: marriage
needanswers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 24
Guess I figured I would find more info in here, as this is the gay board and it sounds like you have all gone through your issues with your sexual identity. I'm sure that is not easy but I suppose I am being a bit self-centered because I feel that there is a possibility that I'm going to have to deal with this later. Maybe I should just call it quits right now no matter how much I love him because I have myself and children to think about and I just don't think I have it in me to help him with this abuse and, even though he says he is definitely heterosexual, I have my doubts now that I've been reading these postings. Thank you for taking the time to reply. I do appreciate that.


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#63359 - 08/10/06 05:24 PM Re: marriage
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Moved from Gay Survivors.


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#63360 - 08/10/06 05:38 PM Re: marriage
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
i was married once before, and yes, i believe the intimacy issues stemming from my abuse were largely behind our troubles.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#63361 - 08/10/06 05:40 PM Re: marriage
needanswers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 24
Intimacy issues? Unsure of your sexuality at the time? Were you in denial about things?


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#63362 - 08/10/06 05:46 PM Re: marriage
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
intimacy issues as in i kept her at an arm's length. i was emotionally closed off, depressed, and i wasnt intimate with her emotionally. oh i was all for sex any time, any where, but when it came to really being intimate with her, i was awful. at the time, i hadnt remembered by abuse. i was a mess, and my sexuality was really a trainwreck. i hadnt accepted anything about myself, and was just kind of pushing it all down inside. i am bi, but remarried to a woman currently. my atraction to men is more in the form of being used and submissive, and the draw is slight enough that i dont need to act on it to be happy and fulfilled. i am perfectly fine with my wife now that we have matured and worked through a whole list of issues.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#63363 - 08/10/06 09:38 PM Re: marriage
needanswers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 24
Phoster, please realize that I'm not trying to be judgemental here at all.. Just from my perspective. How does your wife really feel about this? I know the thought of him thinking about men makes me feel less than a woman, even more so than if he was thinking about other women. At least I can compete with other women. I'm just sick. Do you act on your feelings towards men? Hope you don't mind me asking; I just need SOMETHING to help ME get through this. Maybe that is selfish but he was selfish in to begin with by all the lies.


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#63364 - 08/10/06 10:53 PM Re: marriage
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
By way of clarification it needs to be borne in mind that when needsanswers asks: "I'm curious about how many in here are or have been married previously?", she means how many GAY survivors are or have been married. Her post was originally to the Gay Forum.

With the move of the original post to this forum, where partners can post, things seem to be getting scrambled up because it's not clear what different people are talking about. So here is my contribution to the definitive mangling of the topic. ;\)

My read of your original post, needsanswers, is that you are worried about the possibility that your husband either has been or eventually can be turned into a homosexual by what happened to him as a boy. I will proceed on the assumption that this is in fact what you are getting at, and of course sorry if I am getting it wrong.

Yes indeed, there are gay men who are married, and they do that for a variety of reasons. Some might be confused or uncertain about their sexuality and unwilling to face the fact that they are gay. Others may figure that marrying and starting a family will sort things out. Whatever the reasons, sure, there are gay men who are married.

But when George repied to you, he was simply confirming that some of these married gay men (or formerly married gay men), including himself, are also survivors. I don't think he would ever wish to suggest that he or any other gay man was "turned gay" by the abuse he suffered. Similarly, Phoster speaks of being bi, but I don't think he means that he is bi because he was abused when he was young.

It's a common myth that sexual abuse and homosexuality are linked, I suppose because both involve male-male sexual acts. But for a gay man sex is only part of his identity. There are also considerations like his social circle, who his soulmates are, places and situations where he feels comfortable and accepted, and so on. Basically, his "gayness" is part of who he is; it's inseparable from his identity as a person and it's one thing that defines him.

But abuse is nothing like that. Abuse is a heinous crime committed against a defenseless innocent child. An abused boy will very often be tempted to define himself in terms of his abuse because it is such an overwhelming emotional issue for him, but his recovery consists largely in BREAKING that link. He has to understand and believe that abuse does NOT define him. He needs to believe that he is okay as a boy (or man), and that it's the abuse that's so perverse and wrong.

There are lots of other things that disprove the myth: for example, most pedophiles consider themselves heterosexual and not gay at all. They go for kids for the ego trip of having such absolute power over a child.

The false logic of the myth can be seen if we look at the parallel example of a woman who has been raped. It would of course be absurd for a man to imagine that this terrible experience would turn his wife into a nymphomaniac. (I know this is more complicated than I make it out to be.)

That said, survivors sometimes do engage in male-male sexual acts as adults. But this often has nothing to do with homosexuality. The overwhelming emotional trauma of abuse causes the survivor such emotional harm that he falls into despair and thinks that he is doomed to this and will never escape from it. So in desperation he re-enacts the abuse with other men, the idea being that this time at least he is in control. If a partner's husband is doing this she needs to know that this is in no way a judgment against her as a woman or partner, but a terrible verdict of shame and loathing against himself.

Another effect of abuse is sexual confusion. As a boy the survivor lost his emerging sense of sexual boundaries - what is and is not appropriate behavior, what he should or should not do, what's right and wrong, and so on. Again, this is in no way a matter of abuse turning him gay. This confusion will not simply go away because he grows up, and it can show up in adulthood in various ways. But these problems are not just matters of contacts with other men. I think (but am not sure) it is far more common for the survivor to show this confusion through fear of sex, guilt over being sexual even with someone he loves, inability to perform sexually, and so on.

You rightly point out that it's important to have an honest and healthy foundation for a marriage, and that if there are serious issues these should be discussed before the two decide to marry. But where abuse is concerned it often doesn't work out that way in practice. In many cases the survivor will have "convinced" himself that what happened years ago doesn't matter and that he is "over it". In others the survivor has no coherent memories, or only fragments, and does not begin to recover these until later in life. My wife and I got married in 1981, for example, and I began to come out of denial only in about 2000. It was not until November 2003 that I could actually write the words "I was molested as a kid".

And sure, there are also many cases where the survivor remembers it all and knows how terribly it has affected him, but cannot tell his partner. Again, this isn't directed against the partner. The problem is that the survivor is so traumatized that he cannot tell ANYONE. And I think it's significant that one thing he may dread is the possibility that people who know will think this has made him gay.

Just my thoughts - hope they are helpful.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#63365 - 08/10/06 11:45 PM Re: marriage
needanswers Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 24
I don't have a clue what "makes" a person gay.. I truly don't. The thing I do know is that I would love to help him through this with the knowledge that our marriage is intact and that I don't have to worry that down the road I'm going to have to worry about his possible sexual tendencies and the effect it is going to have on our family. I care about him and I'm going to pray that he realizes what it is he wants but in the meantime, I'm not sure that I want to sit around and wait for him. Even though he assures me that he is not, I've read a lot of these posts and just as a general rule, I realize that a person has to know who they are and it takes years for that to happen sometimes and I don't know that I want to invest my time to that to find out in the end that this is truly not what he wants.... I have shared my feelings about this with him too...

Does that make sense? I truly don't want to be selfish and I honestly do want him to be happy but at the same time, I'm not sure I should feel that I have to jeopardize myself and my health in order for him to accomplish that. ????


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#63366 - 08/11/06 12:46 AM Re: marriage
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Yes, it makes all the sense in the world. Recovery from abuse involves a lot of tough decisions with no guarantee of the desired results. Both partners have to decide what they can and cannot do, and at the end of the day what's most important in this respect is honesty.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#63367 - 08/11/06 04:26 AM Re: marriage
Lost Spark Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 73
Loc: Chicago, IL
Roadrunner,

I have been on this site from now and then. Moreso, I think it's my own personal denial from 'dealing' with my loved one's problem head on, since he doesn't want to deal with it completely yet, as well. But, things are changing for the two of us and are about to embark on a new journey together in Marriage soon.

His CSA has come up more. I love him and have stood by him always and plan on doing so no matter what. But, there is always that doubt, the fear and the insecurity. I've tried understanding him, but that's not feasible. Because, as it is always stated time and time again, no one will ever completely understand a victim's situation, except for themselves. But, I'm trying, daily.

Now, times are tougher than ever. We love each other, but we need to learn how to work with this in our marriage from now on.

Your post gave me so many answers that I have been looking for in the past few days and I am counting my blessings for having wandered over here tonight. Thank you Roadrunner. You have instilled more faith and confidence in me to continue on this journey to not only be my loved one's future wife and friend, but also his confident support system.

_________________________
"When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.’ They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life." - John Lennon

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#63368 - 08/11/06 03:26 PM Re: marriage
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Needanswers,

Hi and a delayed welcome from me. My b/f was s/a by his mother and father. Everything in his life is somehow touched by sex in his mind. To be honest, some of things that he finds erotic were a bit strange to me because I thought of the gay aspect. I got past that and came to believe that it was simply his openness to sex. Quite frankly, I'm pretty open too and there is no abuse in my past. That belief, of course, went out the window when I found out about the csa and I came back around to wondering about the influences of the csa and whether he wanted to be with a man - ever.

The answer I have is this - no, he doesn't want to. My man loves women and he loves me in particular. Does he fantasize about men? Has he ever acted out with a man? I don't know the answer to that and I suspect that if it ever happened it will be years or maybe never before I find out. I'm perfectly OK with that because there are enough issues for the two of us to deal with to fill the balance of my life without throwing that one into the mix.

I have no fear that he will leave me for a man. Any "tendencies" he may have toward homosexuality are purely in the forum of sex which is a loaded gun to start with.

My b/f is not gay and I highly doubt that your husband is either. He may have gigantic questions about how he feels about sex, he may be curious in ways that make not only you but him very uncomfortable but as Larry said above, sex is only one part of what makes the person whether they are straight or gay or bi.

Your husband has confided to you and he will hopefully find himself in therapy to wind through this mine field. Asking you to stick it out, with children in tow is huge. Your doubts are legitimate and honest. The only thing I will ask of you is that you give yourself and your husband some time to come down and adjust to the new information you have. He’s only recently disclosed to you and there are more emotions and questions rattling around in your brain than probably existed in your whole past life. You’re here asking questions and reading so that you can learn; that’s the best thing you can possibly do. Take things in doses you can handle because even a little bit of this is overwhelming.

Most of all - give yourselves some time. No life changing decisions should be made in a panic or based on “what if.”

ROCK ON.........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#63369 - 08/11/06 03:32 PM Re: marriage
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
sorry, i didnt get back before now.

my wife knows i chose her. she is the one i want to be with. my atractions have no bearing on chosing her or how i feel about her. fidelity transends what sex a person is. in otherwords, i didnt only forsake all women to be with her, i forsook all people to be with her. man or woman doesnt matter. when i chose her, i gave up all those others, and have no regrets.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#63370 - 08/11/06 05:09 PM Re: marriage
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
Hi Needanswers,

I really do understand how you feel right now, I've been through all those feelings and still have this horrible, 'what's true/what's a lie/what if a man is really what he wants' panick which comes and goes.

Don't know if this is any help to you, but one thing I realised recently was that part of my discomfort with knowing about my bf's bisexuality was to do with the awkwardness he dsiplayed around the issue. I think it maybe makes me feel like it's MASSIVE, therefore, it must be more than what he feels for me. So, it makes me more jealous. All the secrecy/shame etc I think in a lot of ways did make it massive, but not in the way I thought.

Can't recall who said it in this discussion, but I definately wouldn't recommend making any hasty decisions right now. Your feelings have been terribly hurt and your trust has been broken, but if you 'react' under those circumstances, you may not be giving your relationship the chance it deserves.

Also, are you getting the support you need right now? Therapist etc..

good luck with everything \:\)

Beccy

peace


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#63371 - 08/11/06 05:48 PM Re: marriage
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
BEWARE, don't know if anything in this post might TRIGGER....

just thought of another reason I felt bothered by bf's attraction to men;

everytime a situation arises where this issue somes up, he seems to become passive etc. As this is not who I've known him to be, I think I've found that in itself unattractive and like I don't know who he is. eg, 'if that's who he really is, I don't fancy him etc'.

I now understand that what happens for him in those moments, is this taunting voice in his head saying, 'your gay, your gay etc'. The fact of having any sexual feelings towards a man makes him feel inadequate as a man and I presume make him behave in this odd way. But, I know from working with loads of gay men, they're certainly not 'passive, submissive' or whatever! Flambuoyant, camp and expressive more like and my bf is not really any of those things..

I suppose what I'm trying to say, is that it's so hard for a man to always hold up this manner of being 'strong and masculine' to the point where expression of anything which is seen to be feminine (ie passive, submissive) is viewed as being so unattractive, both to themselves and their partners and the world! I feel quite ashamed of myself for having that reaction.

I think most men feel the abuse was their fault, cause they weren't 'man' enough to stop it, therefore they must be gay.

My bf had always thought he was just 'pretending' with me and that the other was the truth. He was relieved beyond belief to know that all the times he encountered difficulties were to do with being triggered, not being gay. Which meant he could still have me/love me and be with me.

It's so hard to find any comfort right at the start of all this and like I said I do still panick, but seek the truth.

Don't know if you relate to any of this...or if I've actually made any sense.

take care, \:\)
Beccy


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#63372 - 08/11/06 06:39 PM Re: marriage
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Phoster,

Very beautiful and true statement. It's what I seek for myself and for the one I love.

We are human therefore, we will never not be attracted to another person. Sometimes it's simply an appreciation for someone beautiful, other times we have a pleasurable physical reaction to another person. For anyone who seeks to shut down what is a very human reaction, failure is the only end.

The other beauty of being human is that we have the ability to put those attractions into perspective and not to act on an urge to satisfy us in the moment rather than look toward the future and the consequences of seeking instant gratification.

Thanks.

ROCK ON........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#63373 - 08/11/06 06:42 PM Re: marriage
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
i can only speak of my experience, but your bf sounds like me. my atraction for men is based a lot on abuse. it isnt a love type atraction like with women. it is more a morbid type of atraction, as in i want to act out with them. i am not comfortable with it totally, because i know where it coming from, and that it isnt totally from the best place.

we've talked on the sexuality board and other places i've talked on it. bisexuality is on a sliding scale i think. i have to admit to being bi because i am atracted to certain men under certain circumstances, but i am far more on the side of women. i much prefer women, and i couldnt see myself in a loving relationship with a man. it is kind of an uneasy balance for me, so no, i dont like talking about it in a very intimate way with my wife. i can talk about it here, where i dont know you all, but i wouldnt want to talk about it much with her. we have talked about it, because it was something we had to face, but we kind of avoid it for the most part. she says she's okay with it, after we talked.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#63374 - 08/12/06 05:03 PM Re: marriage
nursemanda25 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 18
Loc: KS
Phoster, you have really helped me clear some issues in my mind regarding my husband.
I have felt some of the things that needsanswers has talked about... and yeah, it would really be crappy if I invested all this time and energy into a marriage that was a lie. So I understand what she means.
HOWEVER - just like our counselor told me, THIS is the *for better or WORSE* part, and I'm either in this or I'm not. I don't take my wedding vows lightly, and I'm not about to leave his side because he has issues to work through (although I would leave if he cheated on me - ya know the real deal breakers of marriage).
I have put up with emotional abuse from my husband because I KNEW in my heart that that wasn't his personality, it wasn't coming from him... and I don't think I'm that far off.

I guess what I mean is that needsanswers NEEDS to stick by her husband if she intends to have a happy, fulfilled relationship. If she allows her insecurities to interfere with her support of her husband, she will be nothing but resentful no matter what progress is ever made. I doubt that her husband is gay as well, but if he is, OH WELL... live and learn, I guess... and if he has been a good husband and father during the meantime, count your blessings for that.


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#63375 - 08/13/06 02:42 PM Re: marriage
surfdude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Hawaii
Hi needsanswers,

I once was married to a very wonderful lady who I loved so much. It took me a while to really feel safe with her. She was the first person I felt safe enough with to tell about my abuse. I told her because I loved her and knew that my CSA was holding me back from having a truly intimate relationship. I wanted to make our relationship better.

Bringing out my secrets that I repressed for so many years opened a Pandora's box of problems. Everything started coming back to me, feelings, flashbacks, depression and I was out of control.

If I had known that it was going to get that bad before it got better, I probably wouldn't have said anything. Not really though. Her love gave me the strenght to face my demons. I didn't know how many were out there.

My acting out hurt her badly. It's hard to explain how you feel so overwhelmed to act out, compelled to do it yet knowing it is not right but just trying to make sense of your life. And feeling the tremendous guilt and shame after.

I've become a much better person since then and would probably be a much better husband. She wouldn't know this though as she moved on without me. I still wish her the best.

I don't blame her for leaving. The experience of abuse and its impact is hard to understand. It's probably much harder to understand if you haven't experience firsthand and I am glad she didn't.

For me, I know that it is possible to really love someone yet do stupid things that hurt her. I'm betting that your husband loves you. There are no guarantees though. I believe people should keep growing. My wife and I kept growing, but in different directions, we grew apart. It would be great if the both of you could grow together and help each other grow.

In his book, Beyond Betrayal, Richard Gartner wrote these words:

"Many men recover from boyhood sexual betrayal. When they do, they are stronger for it, often finding hidden gifts that make them more sensitive, resilient, and robust. Yourt loved one, as he recovers, may very well become someone you love even more."

I don't know how rough a road your husband will have as he recovers. Having your love, support and faith in him when things get tough is something anyone, abuse survivor or not, could always use. Remember that you have to take care of yourself and your needs in the process.

Sunny


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#63376 - 08/14/06 05:45 PM Re: marriage
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
my first wife left me too. i loved her, but i wasnt healthy, and i certainly wasnt happy. i dont think i was ever a very good husband to her. i couldnt let her in, and it cost me dearly. like you Sunny, i dont blame her. i dont really hold any hard feelings. i just hope whereever she is that she is happy now.

i'll have to remember that quote. it is a good one, and one i feel very much applies to my life.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#63377 - 08/15/06 06:05 AM Re: marriage
proteus Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 29
Loc: Louisiana
I am married to a wonderful woman who I love truely, madly, deeply. November 4th is our 10 yr anniversary and I just opened up to her about my SA a few weeks ago. She was SA when she was a child so she has been very understanding about my situation. All though I have had thoughts about being gay I have kind of worked through that enough to know that it mainly had to deal with my SA. We are working on it together and I am planning a weekend get away for our anniversary.

_________________________
For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope. In those days when you pray, I will listen. If you look for me in earnest, you will find me. Jeremiah 29:11-13

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#63378 - 08/16/06 12:06 AM Re: marriage
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I have been married for 32 years, and never been unfaithful.

But I have had sex with other men.

I would call having an affair or relationship being unfaithful, or having sex with another woman in a 'normal' kinda way, like having a one night stand with some woman I met. And I'll overcome my modesty to add that I have had my chances on more than one occassion.
To do that I would have to be willing and to some degree active in seeking sex or a relationship, and that has never happened, I love and respect my wife too much for that.

So how do I, and my wife, reconcile that with me actively seeking sex with unknown men? (Which incidentally I haven't done since 1998.)

Sex with strange men was an acting out behaviour, it was driven directly from my abuse for various reasons.
The main one being, I was trying to recreate the sex that happened to me as a boy on my terms as an adult, which I now know doesn't work.
I wanted to be the one in control of the sex, but my chosen sex act was giving BJ's which is a submissive role, so the conflict was huge and most times ended up with me fleeing before the act was over.

I was also driven by fantasies that I could create to such a degree of intensity that I was high on adreniline, and after a few days of continuous fantasy I was out of control.
So I went looking for strange men in toilets.

None of that behaviour has anything to do with being gay or even bisexual.
I have admitted freely that giving BJ's was sometimes a good experience for me, but that is a simple base pleasure experience that I personally can't seperate from all the issues that I have stemming from my abuse, as I've mentioned above.
So, would meeting a guy who would accomodate my fantasies work for me? No it wouldn't, the same rules would apply, I would need the strict rules and>
_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#63379 - 08/16/06 02:45 AM Re: marriage
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Dave,

You know that I have the utmost respect and admiration for you, right? I hope you do because it's true and because of what I'm about to say.

You are splitting hairs, when you say you were never unfaithful to your wife. I believe you when you say that what happened was nothing short of a compulsion that you could not control when it was happening, but that does not excuse it and calling it acting out does not negate the fact of unfaithfulness. Mr. Clinton tried that one and it didn't work either.

To a spouse or significant other, if there is intentional physical contact between their loved one and another, then their loved one has been unfaithful - period.

Emotional or physical cheating is hurtful. It's pain beyond belief and sometimes beyond understanding to the person who was wronged. There may be reasons, compulsions, blackouts even, but if it happened, it happend. No spouse or s/o that I have ever met would call it anything other than unfaithful.

Sorry if this is a bit harsh, but it's the way I see it. I've been here for months and learned a great deal, including, no especially, understanding, but I haven't read anything to change my opinion on the bare bones facts. Things happen that have to be dealt with, but they should be called what they are.

ROCK ON........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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