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#63059 - 08/03/02 12:10 AM AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
babs Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/01
Posts: 59
Loc: Cub Hill, MD
AMiNUTS,

I may just be projecting my own paranoid feelings onto your situation, but since I already have a reputation for speaking my mind...hear goes.

Your statement...

Quote:
A 40 year old man should not dive in at an 18 year old's speed. (Part of me wonders if there is other motivation involved......but I will try to not get patanoid.) But since he is generally an unmotivated person all around, this is a good thing...right? Maybe he needs space too. I have worked out for years on my own and I love the time to myseld in a healthy environment. Maybe he can get somnething more out of it than the obvious.
just triggered my suspicious side. Considering everything that you have said about your husband's level of DENIAL about the impact of the SA and his obsession with PORNOGRAPHY I would be paranoid if I were you. But probably NOT the way you are thinking !!

One of the most destructive aspects of SA on males seems to me to be the resulting confused sexuality. ACTING OUT is rampant. ADDICTION to sex is almost universal. SAME SEX attractions, although unwanted, are commonplace. Being around alot of naked men is not the "safest place" for an male SA survivor to be.

As I reread your post (several times) it is apparent to me that you seem to think all of this to TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE. Needs his space to do what?? Work on his recovery??? Maybe he can get somnething more out of it than the obvious ??? Time to himself in an UNhealthy environment..

Maybe the real survivors like Eddie & Lloydy will tell you I'm full of crap!! In the long run you have to trust your own feelings and your own husband.

Hope the GYM is a good thing,

Babs


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#63060 - 08/03/02 07:38 PM Re: AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
hi girls,
you are putting some interesting and VERY thought provoking stuff on this site, and I for one love it. It's the view from across the kitchen table that I only get one opinion of normally, so your views make a healthy balance, and I need that.

Motivation...there's good topic, I have been so unmotivated for so long I always choose the easy way out, I pay someone to mow my grass and do the gardening !! and it's not because I can afford it.
Everyday things are so hard, and once the cycle of being unmotivated starts it becomes the norm. My employer, a huge mulinational, has actually slowed us down to the point I might do 2 hours work a day, can you imagine the boredom ? and it seeps into the body- I come home unmotivated, and I'm that way inclined because of the SA... I'm bone idle. The reason I work hard at my recovery is that I started a while back and I can just maintain the effort. But all around me here is paperwork and stuff that needs attention.
The worst thing is that it rubs off onto partners, and we've talked about this tonight, we've both got into this lazy groove. So we've made a pact to kick arse- each others !

Babs, what you say about being in contact with other naked men in somewhere like a gym didn't have any effect on me, I showered at work with the guys for years and it wasn't the slightest problem. It didn't even make my fantasies.
But since starting recovery I have stopped for some reason, maybe heightened awareness- maybe the beer gut..
The acting out is definatly the most destructive thing, for us it's the most important thing in our lives, it's irrational, unstoppable, insane, and inevitable.
If you want an example of the sheer power of the urge to fulfill our fantasies, I've had sex with a strange man in the most public of pl

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#63061 - 08/03/02 07:38 PM Re: AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
hi girls,
you are putting some interesting and VERY thought provoking stuff on this site, and I for one love it. It's the view from across the kitchen table that I only get one opinion of normally, so your views make a healthy balance, and I need that.

Motivation...there's good topic, I have been so unmotivated for so long I always choose the easy way out, I pay someone to mow my grass and do the gardening !! and it's not because I can afford it.
Everyday things are so hard, and once the cycle of being unmotivated starts it becomes the norm. My employer, a huge mulinational, has actually slowed us down to the point I might do 2 hours work a day, can you imagine the boredom ? and it seeps into the body- I come home unmotivated, and I'm that way inclined because of the SA... I'm bone idle. The reason I work hard at my recovery is that I started a while back and I can just maintain the effort, and see the results. But all around me here is paperwork and stuff that needs attention.
The worst thing is that it rubs off onto partners, and we've talked about this tonight, we've both got into this lazy groove. So we've made a pact to kick arse- each others !

Babs, what you say about being in contact with other naked men in somewhere like a gym didn't have any effect on me, I showered at work with the guys for years and it wasn't the slightest problem. It didn't even make my fantasies.
But since starting recovery I have stopped for some reason, maybe heightened awareness- maybe the beer gut..
But maybe AMiNUTS should be a bit wary of his motivation, we're well known sneaky, devious characters and a bit of discreet suspicion could be healthy, especially if he isn't opening up any yet. But it's a fine line between keeping an eye open and creating an air of suspicion, difficult that one.
The acting out is definatly the most destructive thing, for us it's the most important thing in our lives, it's irrational, unstoppable, insane, and inevitable. And if that sounds like an easy excuse for our behaviour it isn't, I just can't imagine any rational person taking the risks of acting out. People do that stuff yes, but rational people use protection, have sex with someone they generally know something about ( name at least !! ) not with the first person who waves his dick at you in a toilet, that's irrational....
If you want an example of the sheer power of the urge to fulfill our fantasies, I've had sex with a strange man in the most public of places imaginable, if someone had just walked around a corner on a weekday afternoon in a busy town there we were. That's the level of desparation I was capable of winding myself up to. Complete oblivion brought on by DAYS of premeditation. It scares the crap out of me know...What this level of behavior does to partners is beyond my comprehension, Sugar ( her nickname ) has tried to tell me but it's hard for her to find words to describe it, although she does not class it as being unfaithful, another woman and I'd be out on my arse. But the confusion must be horrible.
But it was sex addiction at the time, I was "doing it myself" many times a day, thinking about it non stop and spending hours looking at internet porn. It consumed me. Totally OCD, and totally out of character.

Giving it up, telling my therapist was slow and hard, telling my wife was worse. But we developed a little ritual. I hate talking about it in the house, this is my sanctuary and I don't want it here. So after therapy we would go to a pub for something to eat and a few beers. There we would talk. I got some funny looks as I cried in my beer, but what the hell- we talked and talked. It's something we still do. Once a week we go for an Indian meal at a place with small booths, they know us well now and give us a corner one. Perhaps the crying puts the other customers off ?? ;\) Tonight we've sat for 3 hours, eating, drinking and talking. It works for us, the set time, not cast in stone, but a time we relax and feel comfortable, a bottle of St Emilliion loosens my tongue. We expect to talk then so we have a chance to think about what we want or need to say.
I guess it's the same as having a regular therapy appointment.

Another long ramble, sorry...

Be good
Lloydy \:\)

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#63062 - 08/03/02 09:10 PM Re: AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
Eddie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/31/02
Posts: 25
Loc: Cub Hill, Md
WOW,
Now that's some heavy stuff!!!!!!!...and I would say that it's all so very true! "Any other woman and my ass would be out the door"...very true here with "Boo Boo"...nick name...not from Yogi Bear...just a very old time term of endearment...used by my mother and my mother's mother. I know all about how strong the need to Act Out is and how strong "it" is...I thought of me going to a gym and why I was there and came up with some hard Acting Out...no other reason for me to be there. How about the guy who goes 3 times a week and doesn't lose weight????...gets home and placates his Acting Out desires by eating??? Looking at all those naked men THAT MUCH has to do something...in the true order of things with SA Males...ACTING OUT!!! Predators are there too... waiting to find someone who is easy..Are SA Males easy????? DO BEARS etc....Maybe that guy wants reinactment??? Babs will not let me join a gym....THANK THE GODS !!!!

Eddie


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#63063 - 08/04/02 06:20 PM Re: AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Eddie
Us "actors" have a lot in common, I'm positive of it. And I've just read a small bit in the paper today about a 17 year old girl who was a tearaway, vandalism and stealing kind of stuff. she was a pretty and clever girl but she had no control over her behaviour. She was also a victim of SA. The behaviour was different but the urge sounded identical.

It's odd that seeing other men naked didn't have any effect on me, maybe it was because it was men I knew and liked. Certainly gay porn was my favourite.. odd ?
But my fixation was the sex acts and the humiliation. The looks, age, size or race of the other guy never entered my fantasy. And I certainly didn't wast time creating fantasies around gyms etc, that meant creating a plot !!
To hell with that, into a toilet, show me a dick and I'm on it !!

I'm a simple soul...... \:D \:D

Lloydy ;\)

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#63064 - 08/04/02 10:09 PM Re: AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
Eddie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/31/02
Posts: 25
Loc: Cub Hill, Md
Lloydy,
I would send you one of those check your profile things but seems like being open is the way to go in order to help the others!!!
You and I stopped acting out with other men...I know how I did it and can stay away from doing it...read my old posts...but how in the hell did you do it and how do you stay away from it now???????????????????

Eddie


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#63065 - 08/05/02 10:03 AM Re: AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
AMiNUTS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/13/02
Posts: 37
Hi All,

Shit! After reading all that I am now more paranoid than ever. Thanks for your honesty. It didn't occur to me that my paranoia should come from the gym, but instead who outside of the gym does he want to look good for. I actually thought showering there before work was a good breakthrough since he would NEVER have done that in the past...he would avoid that situation like the plague.

We went to the gym together on Saturday and all was well (at least I think) until we got home. I had some homework to do and he seem to feel set on the back burner in a oh, poor me state. That seem to set off the entire weekend with him being extremely aloof...which I HATE when he is that way. It pushes me off further. Is he trying to distance me for self protection or is he trying to get me to feel sorry for him? I just know I get annoyed with it.

The gym. Is it a good thing? Well...I just don't know.

You know I always wondered lots of different things about his behaviors and my feeling distrustful having only my intuition to go on. Unfortunately, as Soccer and I have in common, being raised in an alcoholic environment creates serious trust issues and wondering if I am paranoid or my intuition is correct always remains a question. This thread has my head spinning. Since his aloofness is just how he behaved when he was looking at porn....well who knows what he is doing. \:\(

Thanks for the insight.


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#63066 - 08/05/02 09:20 PM Re: AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Eddie
I agree totally, keep it open. I'm heading towards a stage where I don't give a shit anymore, but I suppose I do in some ways.
I have actually said things on this site that I didn't in therapy, so I'm still getting it out of my system, and if it helps soeone else then thats excellent.

I've read a load of your old posts, and others, and it's a mine of good stuff. I hope they're archiving it somewhere.

It was hard work that stopped me acting out, nothing but HARD WORK. And it aint ended yet.
Mostly inside my head, with a bit of practical stuff as well. In my head I learned the great truism of recovery "a secret shared is no longer a secret"
That was the turning point, initially disclosing my abuse and starting therapy was the first secret out of the bag. But the secret about acting out took longer, and actually became disclosed when I left my writing on the computer accidentally and Sugar saw it.
Wow, was that a hard couple of days ??? But since her knowledge and acceptance the main support of my fantasy / acting out has collapsed. It's no longer secret, and that was important to me. It was a sense of feeling different and special because I was the tough guy who could do as I pleased. It was all driven by my abuse, but it took on a life of its own as I got deeper into it, the secret was bolstered by risk, and I ended up so dangerous to myself and those I love that getting caught was surely just a matter of time.
So losing the secret has dispelled a great part of it's appeal. I really think that my days of major acting out are gone now, reality kicks in because I can't get so consumed in the unstoppable urge any more. I don't think I could if I tried now.

But the fantasy is still there, and it's the same one- stranger + blow job- simple. And that's hard to shift, so hard. But again I don't keep it a secret, I tell Sugar if I'm having a hard time, and it goes. Maybe not completely, but it's better. If I can stop it coming at all then that would be something, but maybe I ask too much.....
It's the same thing when I'm going to have a risky period of being alone, she asks if I'm going to be ok, gives me a kiss and smile before reminding e to phone her if I'm having a hard time. She's not on my back and checking me out at all, just reminding me that a simple call on our mobiles will ease my pain, which it does. She trusts me to be alone again, because I do phone her sometimes. I'm in tears fighting it. She knows I try as hard as I can, I HAVE to return that level of trust and love.
I think a full acting out would be too much to bear now, I just can't imagine the circumstances where it could happen any more, although the fantasy tells me different, but I recognise that for what it is. My moments of madness are far outnumbered by my moments of clarity now.

The other practical thing is I force myself to do something in the high risk times. I get home maybe 2 hours earlier, and at my worst point 4 / 5 years ago I had this time planned for acting out, along with every other opportunity. I have so many interests, but I ignored them totally at this time, now I plan to come home - work on the jeep, do the offroad club newsletter, do jobs on the house, go for a walk with my camera. It's bloody hard work to do it, and the worst it gets now is masturbating to the fantasy- no real crime I know, but if it's at the expense of making love with Sugar, which it is, then the guilt is deep.
Doing something provides so many different things, at the start it's a distraction, and one you can use to prove to others that you have been doing something. I still show Sugar the new muffler brackets I weld to the jeep (as if she cares !!! ;\) ) but it proved it to me which is more important. And any kind of hobby from stamp collecting to me building off roaders from the ground up gives you a sense of satisfaction and achievement, something we need and don't always get from our recovery process which at times seems to defeat us. So if we can get a sense of doing good somewhere else we begin to recognise it again.
It's normal everyday stuff Eddie, and it leads us back towards as normal and everyday life as we can achieve.

Lloydy \:\)

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#63067 - 08/05/02 10:59 PM Re: AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
Eddie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/31/02
Posts: 25
Loc: Cub Hill, Md
Lloydy,
Thanks for your story of stopping the acting out thing...wouldn't feel bad if I were you about the masturbating or beat up on yourself for leaving Sugar out of the sex act...bet you need sex a lot more than she does...most SA Males do...if she had to take all of it all the time...she would wear out and get "brain fry"!!! Your story sounds a lot like mine except I want to be fucked...it's very hard work to stop acting it out! But, I have the one thing that you don't...I still can act it out by having Boo Boo FIST me!!!! My therapist says that's it good for me...who knows..I just can't stop!

AMiNUTS,
Sounds like you need Magnum PI...or any PI to find out what he is doing...maybe get help from a friend...check his PC...history and cookies...maybe he didn'd delete...a lot of SA Males when acting out will be in a strange state of mind..not thinking too good...check him out before you come to any hard conclusions!...Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eddie


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#63068 - 09/07/02 05:46 PM Re: AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
George Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 120
Loc: NY metro
Hi Folks,

I know this is a late reply, better late than never.

Gyms... I too joined a gym ten years back, not to get in shape but get an eye full. Sure, I love the pool, hot tub & steam room, I wish I had them in my house. I never hooked up with anybody at the gym, although I supposed it would be easy enough to figure out who would go for it. There was always a few in the locker room displaying themselve alot longer than needed to be. I did use it all for fantisy though.

But in a small way I felt more manly being there. I too hated undressing infront of other people in locker rooms, even when it was just down to underware in school gym class. So for me to be able to do a lightning fast naked change was a lift to my ego.

Acting out... I started before the abuse ended at 12, it continued on till our fifth year of marriage. I then went for five years of just masterbating to gay porn. Five years ago I had a bad buisness fold, that sent me back into acting out with others. four times it happened. Four years ago it all ended. We're married over 12 years now, 4 years happily \:\)

How did all the porn, masterbation & acting out end??? It was an act of God, plain and simple. 1/5/99, it was like the blinders that I wore for so long were ripped off me that day. It was all shut off in me like someone flpped a switch. That day I had been trolling for gay porn on the net when from link to link when I ended up at a survivors own personal site. I read the story at first expecting to get off, I got blindsided by truth instead. It hit me like a ton of bricks, it sounded like he wrote my story. It unleashed such a wave of emotion & tears. I prayed like I never prayed before for forgivness & strength to end all the evil stuff. I soon learned how just about all of it had to do with control. I havn't slipped once. I'm not tooting my own horn, it was truly a mirical, I know I couldn't do it on my own.

Marrital relations... All along we had a busy sex life, still do. 3X a week or more. If I go more than two days I start to feel antsy. My wife is happy & enjoys it. It just goes to show you that acting out is not about sex or what your wife is not giving you, its about control.

The night I finally told me wife about the abuse, two months after I started dealing with it. She told me that she was surprised to still be with me, for she had been planing on leaving me. She had always remarked about "the wall". I thought that she would just get over it...she did and her next step was out the door, had I not spoken up. We talked a looong time that night, it answered so many questions in her mind. I never told her about the acting out *after* we were married, I figuered that I'd spare her the pain of knowing for sure. I know she has an idea though.

Funny thing, things weren't great before I told her, but they were *fair* (in my mind). I mean we still were having sex and all. I only saw what I wanted to see, I didn't see her misery and the pain that I inflicted. I started believing my own facade. Boy, were my eyes opened that da too.

Things now are great, after twelve years of marriage we had our first child, a boy five months ago. I named him after myself, not as an ego thing (although everyone else thinks that). It was so that George XXXXXX would have another chance at growing up normal. My wife gets it. For the first time I know what real love from the start is, its just perfect.

Just thought I'd share.

~George~

************************************************************************************* NEWS FLASH ****************

After reading & adding to this thread the other day, I was left wondering if I should check with my wife to see if she feels things are as great as *I* think think they are. In the past I've been known to be wrong about the state of our marriage, so just to be sure... Mostly about the amount of sex & if she sees it as a burdan or chore.

She said no, that she loves it & everything *is* indeed great. Ok, good start but theres more...

this discussion led to much deeper talk about us & past stuff. She confessed to something like, (years ago) feeling that she should maybe get sick to finally get my attention... she soon came down with diabetes and now feels guilty for it. I told her noone has that much control over things, not even me at my worst, don't sweat it, we'll deal with it as we deal with anything else.

Then it was my turn. My mind started to swim away, but I got a grip on it and spit it out anyway... "I acted out with guys after we were married too". She said "I knew it, I knew there was more" (in a loving & forgiving manner). After four more years of holding that last confession it was finally out now. I got on my knees & appologised to her and she accepted. We talked till 1:30am then capped it all off with the best loven *blush*.

That was it, the very last piece of abuse issue to struggle over. What peace... I knew that I wasn't done till I told her the whole truth, I'm glad that I didn't try to take that to my grave.

~George~


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