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#62624 - 11/11/04 08:04 PM WHAT TO DO?
jessica Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 6
Loc: USA
HI ALL,

NEW HERE AND WONDERING IF MY BOTFRIEND OF FIVE YEARS WILL EVER STOP CHEATING & LYING. AM I A DOOR MAT? BREAK GLASS IN CASE OF EMERGENCY... I KNOW OF HIS PAIN SOMEWHAT, HE HAS SHARED SOME OF HIS STORY AND IT HAS SENT ME HERE. I HAD NO IDEA HOW THESE EXPERIENCES AFFECT MEN. I KNOW HE THINKS I WILL LEAVE HIM IF HE TELLS ME THE WHOLE STORY AND ALL THE SIDE EFFECTS. HE HAS TOLD ME THAT, BUT I ALSO THINK HE IS JUST A AFRAID OF GETTING CLOSER. I FELT A CONNECTION WITH HIM FROM THE BEGINING AND SO DID HE BUT STARTED TO PUSH ME AWAY SOON AFTER. AT ANY RATE THAT WAS YEARS AGO AND WE HAVE GOTTEN SOMEWHAT CLOSER BUT NO WHERE NEAR WHAT A NORMAL RELATIONSHIP SHOULD BE. AM I JUST A SUPPORT PERSON I CAN BE THAT TOO BUT IF THAT IS ALL I AM NEEDED FOR MAYBE I SHOULD MOVE ON. IT HAS BEEN VERY PAINFUL WHEN WE TRY TO BREAKUP FOR THE BOTH OF US WE BOTH CRY AND COME RUNNING BACK TO EACH OTHER BUT SOON AFTER I START TO FEEL THE DISTANCE AGAIN SO I ASK WHAT DOES HE REALLY HAVE ME IN HIS LIFE FOR. HI


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#62625 - 11/12/04 12:40 AM Re: WHAT TO DO?
forlauren Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 63
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Hi Jessica. I've been with my husband 6 and a half years. I didn't learn about his abuse until 6 weeks ago. I felt lied to about that too, that he could have married me and had a baby with me and not tell me something so significant about his past. I found out he lied to me about his use of pornography and masturbation repeatedly and about gambling. Maybe your boyfriend is a sex addict too like my husband. When people have addictions, they lie. All junkies lie to cover their tracks and so they don't have to give up whatever it is they do that makes them feel better. Survivors of abuse often have these things that make them lie. I was so naive I didn't realize my husband was a liar until just recently. To answer your question will he ever stop lying to you I would say no, he won't if he doesn't seek help and truly want to change. I can't imagine being a liar myself since I was brought up to hold truth as one of the highest values there is, so I don't really know too much about it. But right now my husband's started therapy, going to church, reading dr. phil even, and he swears to me he wants to change and that he is changing, through prayer and meditation, and he's even going to 12-step groups and taking karate to help keep him disciplined and focused. I have to try to believe him that he will be a new man because I feel like I'm seeing changes and I have to give him that chance since we have a little girl together. I guess I'll keep you posted and let you know if it really is true that a man can change and become truthful, supportive, intimate, and loyal because I have very high standards and will settle for nothing less for myself and my daughter.


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#62626 - 11/12/04 02:08 AM Re: WHAT TO DO?
forlauren Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 63
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Hi Jessica. I've been with my husband 6 and a half years. I didn't learn about his abuse until 6 weeks ago. I felt lied to about that too, that he could have married me and had a baby with me and not tell me something so significant about his past. I found out he lied to me about his use of pornography and masturbation repeatedly and about gambling. Maybe your boyfriend is a sex addict too like my husband. When people have addictions, they lie. All junkies lie to cover their tracks and so they don't have to give up whatever it is they do that makes them feel better. Survivors of abuse often have these things that make them lie. I was so naive I didn't realize my husband was a liar until just recently. To answer your question will he ever stop lying to you I would say no, he won't if he doesn't seek help and truly want to change. I can't imagine being a liar myself since I was brought up to hold truth as one of the highest values there is, so I don't really know too much about it. But right now my husband's started therapy, going to church, reading dr. phil even, and he swears to me he wants to change and that he is changing, through prayer and meditation, and he's even going to 12-step groups and taking karate to help keep him disciplined and focused. I have to try to believe him that he will be a new man because I feel like I'm seeing changes and I have to give him that chance since we have a little girl together. I guess I'll keep you posted and let you know if it really is true that a man can change and become truthful, supportive, intimate, and loyal because I have very high standards and will settle for nothing less for myself and my daughter.


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#62627 - 11/12/04 02:53 AM Re: WHAT TO DO?
MikeNY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 927
Loc: NY
Is he actively getting help with it? Is he actually actively doing things to make himself healthier?


EDIT:

This song came to my mind after reading your post.


Evanescence - My Immortal

I'm so tired of being here
Suppressed by all my childish fears
And if you have to leave
I wish that you would just leave
'Cause your presence still lingers here
And it won't leave me alone

These wounds won't seem to heal
This pain is just too real
There's just too much that time cannot erase

When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me

You used to captivate me
By your resonating life
Now I'm bound by the life you've left behind
Your face it haunts
My once pleasant dreams
Your voice it chased away
All the sanity in me

These wounds won't seem to heal
This pain is just too real
There's just too much that time cannot erase

When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me

I've tried so hard to tell myself that you're gone
But though you're still with me
I've been alone all along

_________________________
"Every child asks the questions which hold the answers to the secrets of the universe, WHAT?, and WHY?". --Me

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#62628 - 11/12/04 03:50 AM Re: WHAT TO DO?
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Hi Jessica,
Quote:
HE THINKS I WILL LEAVE HIM IF HE TELLS ME THE WHOLE STORY AND ALL THE SIDE EFFECTS. HE HAS TOLD ME THAT, BUT I ALSO THINK HE IS JUST A AFRAID OF GETTING CLOSER.
There is no one way to disclose. It is beyond difficult for these guys to start letting go of their secrets; they've been keeping them for such a long time. I don't know the "whole story" of my boyfriend's abuse, a year after he told me he'd been abused as a boy I don't think he has it in him to sit down and tell me the whole thing, and honestly I don't feel he needs to. All I really ask or feel a need to know is how his abuse affects him in the present-- if something has triggered him, for example, or if he's having a bad day. I think it's best to listen without expectations. As for the side effects, we're both figuring out what they are as we go along.

It's up to each of us to figure out what we need and what we're able to give in our relationships. Being there for someone who needs so much and has been hurt, and taught so many bizarre things about love and relationships, is not easy and not always rewarding. Being with my boyfriend, who is a survivor, works for me. But I understand why it might not work for many other people. Especially if you feel taken for granted, being asked to provide a great deal of support.

And I think it goes without saying that you have a right to keep unacceptable behavior (cheating, lying, abuse) out of your life and relationships. If someone has a problem with that, then it's time to end the relationship with that person.

SAR


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#62629 - 11/12/04 12:34 PM Re: WHAT TO DO?
jessica Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 6
Loc: USA
you guys are something else. what a support group and for free \:\) I hear what all have said and because i am a Christian i feel GOD has put me in his life for a reason. He told me he has tried to kill himself a few time before i came along. we dated for years even before he told me that, let alone why. he is so very private i feel i am betraying him by even speaking on it but i love him and feel i may be able to assist him in much needed strength. right now he doesn't know that i know as much as i do, i think he feels this is part of his healing, it may be, we seem to be lasting longer than his past relationships and they all knew near the begining of their relationship. we have gotten closer but only in the name of a business venture and not love so he says, i think he knows it is love but afraid to admit it to himself. i wouldn't even know what i do if i had not been searching for the truth. the heart breaking part is while i was looking for the truth i came across the affairs they don't last long and at the end they can be very painful for him but i am always there pretending he is just having a bad day (what is wrong with me?)i have not told him what i know for obvious reasons, please pray for me


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#62630 - 11/12/04 05:26 PM Re: WHAT TO DO?
jessica Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 6
Loc: USA
Thank you Mike NY
The poem very emotional. and yes he has sought help and been hospitialized as well as drugged i think all these things including his best friend (me) are helping also


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#62631 - 11/12/04 08:33 PM Re: WHAT TO DO?
MikeNY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 927
Loc: NY
You are welcome. It is a song by the group Evanescence.

It's great news that he is trying to help himself. You still need to create and keep boundaries.

_________________________
"Every child asks the questions which hold the answers to the secrets of the universe, WHAT?, and WHY?". --Me

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#62632 - 11/12/04 09:12 PM Re: WHAT TO DO?
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Jessica its good to feel that God put you in this person's life for a reason... but its also important to remember that you too are also a gift from God - that God created YOU as well and considers YOU important and He did not intend for you to be treated badly by ANYONE.... Its one thing to understand what your partner is going through but its another thing to continue to allow it to happen to your own detriment.

Sometiems the kindest things we can do for the people we love is "tough love".. let them know by us telling or showing them their behaviour is hurtful to others. Covering it up and excusing it just allows them to go about their lives hurting others and that behaviour continued too long will eventually hurt them in the end.


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#62633 - 11/13/04 01:09 AM Re: WHAT TO DO?
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Jessica,

I agree with PAS, you are not helping yourself or treating yourself well by allowing him to lie to you about his affairs.

But you are not helping him either. If you want this man to trust you and tell you the truth, if you want him to depend on you for support and friendship, then your relationship has to be a trusting, truthful, stable ground.

My boyfriend did not cheat on me in person, but he chatted and exchanged emails and phone calls with a girl who thought he was single for about 18 months of our relationship. And a BIG way that he justified this behavior was convincing himself that I already knew what he was doing, and did not care enough about him or our relationship to intervene. And I didn't know, at all. For him to find out that I knew and didn't do anything, would have sent the message that I really didn't care.

Just my experience.
Sar


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#62634 - 11/13/04 01:50 AM Re: WHAT TO DO?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Jessica.
I guess you're doing most of the right things - whatever the 'right things' are?

What I mean is, recovery is something that we can't plan - it's not an exact science. At times I think I'm making it up as I go along, probably am if the truths known. :rolleyes:

As for your boyfriends behaviour, lying and cheating seems to be fairly common.
The early sexualization we recieved gave us all the wrong ideas about sex and power, and these ideas are deeply ingrained. We carry them into adulthood, and if left unchecked can create huge problems for us. We can turn to drink, drugs, sexual promiscuity, acting out sexually and many other problems. We can also suffer from depression, PTSD and a whole raft of clinical problems.

Is it any wonder we lie and cheat?
We know that we don't want to do these behaviours or feel the way we do, and something in the back of our minds tells us it's related to what happened to us as kids.
So we think in a circular and distorted manner.
"What happened to me as a boy has made me the man I am today. I hate that man, he's sick. How can I tell anyone?" So we dont. Instead we act our way through it, and lie.

The biggest lie is however to ourselves.

We're not easy people, and our healing can be long and difficult. Partners can often be treated very badly along the way.
My wife and I are still together, yes, we've had some tough times. But 'love' has overcome them.

Take care
Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#62635 - 11/13/04 02:46 PM Re: WHAT TO DO?
CFO Dave Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 104
Loc: Millis MA
Jessica,

I would agree with most of what has been posted here. Dave's talk of circular thinking is particularlly on point. I would like to point out that for some the circle is slightly different. We don't like what we're doing but don't understand that it is a result of what happened to us as kids. We think what happened to us as kids was our fault because of who we are. It's still the circle just from a slightly different angle.

He needs to understand and accept the far reaching effects of what happened to him. Just knowing he was a victim of CSA is not enought. I know for me and for a lot of people here, we know what happened to us but we don't understand the effects.

Since he has shared some with you perhaps he would be open to exploring this site? It is amazing the feelings that come from knowing you're not alone.

I also recommend 2 wonderful books. Abused Boys by Mic Hunter and Victims No Longer by Mike Lew. You may find that he is afraid to buy them because he's to embarassed to walk into a bookstore and buy it but it is available on line or you could pick it up for him.

Make sure you take care of yourself first.

Dave

_________________________
"We deceive ourselves when we fancy that only weakness needs support. Strength needs it far more."
-Madame Swetchine

"The soul that is within me no man can degrade."
-Frederick Douglas

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#62636 - 11/13/04 02:49 PM Re: WHAT TO DO?
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi Jessica, First typing in ALL CAPITALS is called SHOUTING, please stop. I know you didn't know. Now you do.

About Advice, I would say keep taking him to different therapist until you find one he can talk to. I have never had therapy so I can not tell you how many, expect a lot.
About talking to you about it, I think part of the problem is all that macho shit we get drilled in to us, boys are supposed to protect girls. I was forced to tell my wife that I was raped, I told her that in 1992. I have never told her anything else about it. I thought it may have been easier to tell you a girl I don't care about. It is not. I have been trying for the last five hours and cannot say anything. In the last three days I have been able to tell the boy's here on the site, more than I have ever told anyone. My rape happened in 1968.
Hopefully, Jessica is not your real name, If that is true, then you can tell him about this wonderful site you found.
If Jessica is your real name then have the admin erase all your posts here. When that is done and not before, then tell him about this wonderful site you found. I think he will find us easier to talk to as we have all been in his shoes. The most important thing is to get him talking to someone, anyone!
About cheating, I have cheated three times. By cheating I mean anything from heavy petting and up. The first was before I felt I was totally committed to my wife we had lived together for two years but I had not committed yet, in her mind we had, so she calls it cheating. The second one was right after my father died, I went out and got wasted, I grouped a girl, It took the boys who saw me do this three days to convince me that I had done this. I thought they was pulling my leg. It took me a week to get up the nerve to apologizes to the girl, It had not bothered her at all like it had me. When I was first introduced to her I liked her personality, and had hoped that we could be friends, that did not happen as I was to ashamed about what I had done. The last one was the only one that had true sex. Me and my wife had a big fight four years before and she had cut me off from sex, I am sure that had a part to play in what happened, one of the other things I am trying to resolve is a fear of gay guys, There was a gay guy hanging around the gas station I was working at, it was freaking me out. I got up the nerve to ask him for help. This is the part I don't understand, somehow it lead to me getting attached to him and attracted to him. It ended with him taking advantage of me money wise, and the wife finding out. It took me over 9 months to recover emotionally. My wife said she forgave me, but we have still not had sex, and every time we fight about anything she throws the affairs up in my face. I love my wife dearly, but she is giving me hell every fight. If you do decide to forgive your husband for cheating on you, please do not do what my wife is doing to me!! My wife is much older than me, I think now, even if she were to change her mind we could not have sex. I stay with her because I love her deeply. The last time I had sex with my wife was in 1990, the last affair happened in 1994, it is now 2004 it has been a long time with no end in sight.
I think I will quit now.
I wish you and your man luck with your problems.

Edited to correct numbers, and improve readability.

Take care,
Clifford

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#62637 - 11/13/04 10:21 PM Re: WHAT TO DO?
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
I apologize, I think I did what they call dumping on you. I should not have done that. Take care.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#62638 - 11/16/04 01:45 PM Re: WHAT TO DO?
jessica Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 6
Loc: USA
Hi Guys I am going to say that this is a very warm and understanding site i see support is very important in a healing. I feel like a cloud has been lifted.Thank you for the information also about having my name erased and bringing him on board this site. It is not my real name but he knows it is part of my online handle...too close... ;-) and well once he reads the story the rest will be history. It was very interesting about how the woman can move in the house and feel she is getting closer to the man but he looks at it totally different. another painful reality. thanx to you all!


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#62639 - 11/30/04 10:31 PM Re: WHAT TO DO?
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi I thought I would make one last post, I finally found the book on rape that helped me understand some of the things that I was feeling. It is recovery by Helen Benedict http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...=glance&s=books While it is just a beginning book, it is a good starting point.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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