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#61889 - 09/05/04 12:17 PM I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
I'm not asking anyone to take sides in this, and I dont want it to sound like I am blaming him, tho I am sure that is how it probably comes across most of the time. And probably how it will come out sounding too.
I dont post much for my own personal reasons. Never quite sure where I am starting from and never knowing where it, if anything is going to end.
He's a survivor and so am I. Had a therapist tell us yrs ago that she truly felt that no two SA survivors could ever live together successfully and thrive.
This past week he has asked me for a divorce. One I am willing to give him IF it is one that he has thought completely through, not just a gut , or knee jerk reactions cuz he was/is pissed at me.
Someone said some pretty damn profound stuff in the thread about hurting each other, (i think it was dan88? but forgive me if i have it wrong ) something to the tune of how when dealing with the changes that go along with surviving SA - perhaps others around the survivor end up not liking the "new version" ( this is what i understood or at least got out of that particular posting , not trying to put words in anyone's mouth i just understood it this way) ---
anyway After Husband and I talked calmly about the incident of looking at the xtra kiddoes butt with that perv stare, he did go back to group, and reinvolve himself in therapy (however has since refused AGAIN to return to group) -- and NOT because I threatened his ass either.... we talked he admitted he had been struggling with his addiction shit again, --- I did NOT make him do crap or give him any damn ultimatums.
It's been some time tho since I posted and much has happened in that time as usual.
What Dan said about inventory, yep -- I aint doing his inventory for him but I sure as hell am not gonna stick my head in the sand when I can see for my own damn self exactly what got him in legal trouble to begin with and keeping that girl safe was my FIRST and FOREMOST thought. Husband staying sober and safe came second why? cuz the truth is I love him -- and I knew the fucking look because it was the same fucking look that came over my own perps faces and probably my husbands perps faces also... To NOT act and approach him would have been allowing a sacrifice to happen and I could not live with that so if I stepped over some boundary real or imaginary then so what, at least the girl ended up safe.
I thot we had stale mated... oooo was I wrong. It was simply a resting period gaining energy to FIGHT over I still dont know what.
I agreed to marriage counseling but was not making the call to do so (still feel if husband gets ready he will or will ask me to do it) -- my T said he would not see us together as he was biased as in he would be too one sided for me (good for him to recognize this and be honest about it) - I agreed that if husband's T would see us then I would go besides I felt that if husband would not confront my oh so intimidating ass this guy surely would as he has been so damn free to tell my husband WHAT my diagnosis is from his arm chair with out having met me & basing his knowledge souly on what husband has shared.
so the big splitter that has put us in divorce court? believe it or not is a fucking baseball game.... and it wasnt about who won or who lost.
AS I have said husband has been a "piler" to avoid dealing with life, me fuck I am not sure of anything but figure it is so he can stop the damn tapes running over and over in his head.
I had been taking pics of some drug dlrs in the hood - the drug dlrs threatened me, husband had told me he planned to "fill in" for some guys at work with a ball game (yea during that time that was Supposed to be "our time together".
I was ok with him doing the fill in stuff it was only a couple games and it was something he had said that yes I could go watch with him if I wanted. Been trying to do things HE wants to do especially if HE makes the decision, ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS ASKING if it was something he wanted me to be involved in with him or not. Dont want to cross his boundaries or be his fucking mommy ya know.
Came time for the ball game, it was hot I had been to a ton of doc appts that day, and had lots of drug activity i had been taking pics of -- i asked him if he minded very much if I just went to his house and stayed in the A/C & rested , he said that was ok, I then told him the "new drug dlrs" threatened me & I was scared as these guys meant business (been doing this long enuff to know who means it & who doesnt) I asked could he maybe come back to the house before it got too dark so I / we could be "safe". Even if it was only in my mind. He agreed, I hot footed it back to the house / across an agreeable neighbors yard but he had split already.
9:30 PM rolls around its darker than shit out -- I try his cell phone , no answer --- I got pissed packed up my crap and split -- our no... HIS house was not safe as it has been being "cased" for some time & that is generally why my "warm body" had been staying there to keep his shit from getting stolen. aint i just a fucking saint?
Ok so I was pissed left a nasty ass message on his VM telling him after 3 yrs of this being apart shit and trying to come back together again with me trying to gain trust again blah blah blah I said sign the fucking divorce papers I was done.
--- 17 yrs this guy knows me, 17 yrs he should even if by OSMOSIS should know I blow a lot of scared hot air at first then come back to the table to talk. OH.. he no talky talky now... he done with this bitch. so he says.
His excuse/reason? for not being home or honoring my request?.... 3 other folks in house with me... UH huh, and of those 3 , one is severely hearing impaired and scared to death of every thing, one is emotionally impaired because fiance' died in his arms from asthma attack & none will call cops even if I or them had been shot... 3 one is our youngest daughter -- where does that put mE? AS MOM, not in the position of where i was and had expressed "I am TRULY SCARED can you PLease COME home EARLY for me" -- he is a big man and just his physical size and maleness is enough to do a bit of crime prevention k? nope, it was more important to stand around and talk to his buddies after dark --- I would not have been even the slightest bit pissed if he would have just called me on that damn cell he used to call me on 400 times a day when HE wanted reassurance or something, all he needed to do was call and tell me that he was talking to his buds and was everything ok?
Nope, didnt think to do that he figures there's 3 others in the house that should be ok enuff ---

I've been on a damn walker now for over 2 months because i have broken so many bones from this stupid disease that keeps progressing worse .... does he think of this? nope, gee the kitchen sure looks great .... cleaned it real nice Spammy just like you used to always do (but did he ask if it hurt or did he ask if i had some help to do it? or did I get a yeeehaww thank you?)...
aaaggghhhh
When we did finally get to talk (and talk not just 2 sentences shit) he tells me I WAS being unreasonable becuz there were 3 other folks in the house and I had said such nasty shit on his VM (oh he wanted to play it for me) I knew what i said and wasnt asking for an excuse nor making for one.... I am human and told him straight up, look I ask for so little , and when I do ask I tell you WHY, I WAS TRULY SCARED of those assholes.
Oh his answer is "A light switch just went off and I dont feel anything for you now." ----
WHAAAAATTTT???? It was that Fucking simple? I could have left a pissed off voice mail long ago and would not have wasted my time in therapy or supporting him or having my doctors write letters on his behalf to the JUDGES that he had to take care of me so his rape charges were dropped to misdemeanor charges and he only spent evenings in jail, and the weekends he was supposed to be taking care of me he could still go fucking golfing ???? OH FUC K ME did I make a mistake!

so a few days of trying to let him and me cool off he and I end up alone some how in his house. he starts a conversation leading me to believe he wants to discuss our relationship etc.... "There are a lot of things I am not ready to tell you yet, and a lot of things I haven't told you yet" (this is my hearing i have been informed recently my hearing is all fucked up thats not at all what he said?) **my emotions at this point just spiraled downward to some black hole where i heard him first tell me about being charged with rape & the lies and the prostitutes, fear jumped in jeezes was there going to be even more WORSE shit I was about to hear? (i tried to play strong on the outside)
I said - yea, i was sure there was and same on my end too but that was WHY I thot marriage counseling would be a good idea. He brings up a friends name who took care of me after I had been in the hospital so long summer b4 last. so DUMBBBY ME, is far tooo honest admits the relationship had been sexual for a short period of time ---- let me interject something here I was totally thinking he is attempting to prepare to spill even more shit he has done such as having sex with an 18 yr old & gonna face rape charges... so since I thot he wanted to have the gates opened up to tell me even more bad shit and being as honest as I can I stupidly told him... I also shared with him that I couldnt believe that he was gonna play dumb to this news as he had asked me several times if it was sexual 1) i was flat on my back & needed full time nursing care, 2) husband refused to be an advocate and help me by either fighting Insur co to get a visiting nurse or to come and take care of me himself 3) i stupidly excused his lack of doing anything as A) too emotional for him to deal with my wounds, B) too emotional for him to see me in pain C) too much blah blah blah... and he is an hourly worker so he had to go to work to get paid (he ignored the suggestion of family med leave act) -- put 2 ppl in an intimate situation and it was this guy was gutsy enuff to clean my groin, shave my groin daily and rip off this k cling feed me, wipe my ass bathe me, change my wound vac... you name it he did it -- where was husband? OHHHHHH work and uh uh uh "oh' I'm so tired" .... duh..... no i didnt make a great choice but i aint gonna beat the shit out of my self for it either

OH THAAAAATTT did it! NOW I AM THE ONE WHO IS ALL AT FAULT. I never claimed total innocence in this ball of bullshit called a marriage between two SA survivors....
Ok maybe I am not taking such good "inventory here" but I dont know where else to share this shit... HE called my therapist (yes he had my permission) and "read" my request for a few fair guidelines for the divorce (according to husband my therapist laffed at my letter to him I didnt think any part of it was funny it was and is serious) --- no i aint asking for a damn thing ... the kids we raised aren't his biologically and are grown anyway, no I dont want any physical thing or even health insurance.
I found out as he told me that we can divorce in this state in 3 days as long as we have been separated for more than 12 months.... we have. Glitch tho is that if one person is deemed disabled the other party must provide health insur. --- which fucks me out of having any health insur as 1) his company wont cover me if we are legally divorced (they dont have to) 2) I cant draw state or public insur as i draw cash from one state but emergency housing in a different state and neither state will give me health care or food stamps. EVEN if I COULD move back to the original state I draw disability from there is several yrs waiting list for housing for me. I'll be dead first....
In my request I simply asked that he not discuss our adult relationship with our daughters we raised together..... they can have their relationship with him and I will have my own with them.
During conversation he tells me he has only stayed with me because he has felt that he has caused my health problems (uhm hasnt helped but didnt cause)...oh that made me feel real fucking special ...
He also informs me that "I gave you your "confused time" I am entitled to mine".. yep I agreed, but how come during my "confused time which basically was being locked up in the fucking crayon wing a short while -- the rest of the time I still, raised kids, ironed his fucking uniforms, scheduled doc appts, social appts. helped the kids with schoolwork, supported his stupid in and out going to sea and in and out of school and in and out of jobs, and paying off his fucking phone sex bills, survived HIM getting me fired from one of my jobs because HE stole money from them...oh the damn list goes on and on...
AM I willing to go over this shit in counseling -- of course I WAS -- but he isnt now?
Perhaps I am being a bit too harsh here, but lets see.... hmmmm during the times I was in the hospital with multiple fucking heart surgeries, he would go home immediately after i came out of surgery to whack off to his porn, let's see he took my ATM card when I was in the hospital and asked him to pay my bills instead he used it to spend it on WHAT ??? still dont really know....
I am doing some major fucking regretting here about having tried to stick beside this guy because I THOUGHT it was out of respecting one survivor to another and that he said he truly loved me was sorry for his behavior and wanted to work things out for us to be back together again --- now I am not so sure --
I know I have said it before and I have become such a broken fucking record even to myself I cant stand it -- now I am making choices and acting on them.... I believed in him enough and had enough empathy and caring to understand and TRIED to understand that HIS issues were his , while we may have shared "some" common things as SA survivors what we didnt share I tried to learn about the male side for HIS sake and OUR sakes, so that I could be better for him in the support side and so that I could know deep in my heart I tried the hardest I could because I KNOW and KNEW
I was NOT innocent in how fucked up the relationship is/was.
I also knew it was going to be harder before it got better --- but here's the real deal, I got news from my doc last week I aint got much longer that I am gonna be here... so, because I know that I am making some active fucking choices
I've lost one hell of a lot of dignity and modesty in my life trying to do the right thing and give him & others room.... FUCK THAT
I'm done, ..... and nope he dont have to worry about paying out a lousy 215.00 bucks for a damn divorce....
I geuss I came into this Mad World being Mad and I will go out that Way




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#61890 - 09/05/04 01:44 PM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
theo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 1122
sammy,
no words can help. i know because i have been there. no words can offer comfort. all i know, is that i do understand. i have heard you, sammy. i am here with you. i can't promise it gets better, because i really don't know myself. what i do know is that we somehow continue on. we survive. if for no other reason than to share with one another that there might be some connection and a combined strength. i am here.

_________________________
journey well,
theo dewolfe

- It is gift, and gift will find its way
- I inherit through my choice. I build through my affirmation. It is through my freedom that I nurture, or fade into autonomy
- I was not given to serve life, but to embrace it

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#61891 - 09/05/04 06:37 PM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
((((((((((((Sammy))))))))))))

Like, Theo, I have no words. I wish I could take all the hurt, pain, anger, and conflict away, sister. I really do. But I can tell you that I love you and care for you.

If you feel the need to talk or vent, or just have someone listen, please PM me. You were here for me, and I can be there for you.

Peace and love,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#61892 - 09/06/04 02:44 PM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
I dont want to leave anyone hanging & thot it appropriate to share what has happpened since I posted.
First of all to Theo & Scot & gang, THanks so very much for your support by even just listening and reading.
Husband and I talked yesterday. I had called the house to talk to my daughter, I had realized husband had some of my things in his safe that I would need but did not want to confront him. So I zipped over there.
Lo and behold he was out just beginning to mow the grass... so it was strained but conversation none the less. The safe is hidden in a secret room (gotta love old houses) - anyway we were in there and he opened the safe for me, I didnt think he would as I have been back in my old negative thinking patterns that he is probably hiding something from me.
I shared with him that since we have not been getting along so welll those ugly non trusting thoughts are back, he said while that hurt he could understand.
Something that came out of what turned into a long pleasant conversation (surprisingly) is that when / while he maintains his sexual addiction sobriety I TOO gain a "release" or "sobriety" from those gawd awful constant doubting wondering if he is lying thoughts. But, since the argument, that shitty old thot pattern had come back and I had not even realized it had been gone. (I hope u r understanding this?)
basically as he maintains his sobriety from sex addiction I become trusting of him and maintain my own sobriety from "checking up on him" , or trying to catch him in a lie?
And as slow as it was , that there was no great instant epiphamy moment that said "hey I trust you now", it had occured over time and I was unaware just as he was until the "trust" had become challenged.
It was hard to start to talk to each other, but we did, it was harder not to jump or bite at each other out of pain, but we did in small steps talk and finally got down to some real nitty gritty stuff for the two of us.
Toward the end of our long conversation it was weird, I had called my T a day or so before & he was finally getting back to me -- he was glad to hear that Husband and I were talking and validated that my T had suggested that all 4 of us had a session . My T, His T, and us to perhaps put some stuff in a good motion forward or at least open up the gates a little better?
Wonder who if any will do flood control?
So for now I have stopped self harming --- which is a good thing, my body needs a rest from that shit. God watched out for us yet again ---
I am still not sure if we are ever going to have any kind of a sex life.
One of things that is a big issue for us (besides the given TRUST issue) is how if ever we are going to have a decent acceptable sex life. He is bothered that if we actually have sexual contact it stimulates the "bad sex thoughts". And he has periods just like I do with reverting to "negative thot pattern?" -- that old trained shit... in his words his "craving for his drug of choice porn & masturbation" becomes worse and not as easy to keep under control . He does not withhold sex from me as a form of punishment, he is more frightened that he will lose his sobriety.
We talked much, and it helped probably what has helped the most tho in this is that we did take some time apart from each other --- but it was too bad that it was sorta "forced" because of a fight? ...
The thing that scares us both is that we keep hearing "it will get worse before it gets better" -- we're not so sure we can handle much more. Neither am I.
There is so much more on our plates, and we keep trying to remember to breathe.... and we keep trying to improve and keep putting one foot in front of the other.....
I geuss thats all we can do eh?
Theo so sorry to hear that you & LT are having a bad go of things too....
Thank u ALL for your never ending support
Peace, Sammy


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#61893 - 09/06/04 03:54 PM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
theo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 1122
sammy,
thank you for the follow up, and the compassion. i cannot really comment much more on my recent loss for now, but your empathic response means a great deal. i truly hope you and yours can find a balance to share that some have not been able to retain. either way, i wish you peace. i recall once, several years ago, i was visiting a family member in the hospital. this sounds morbid, but i hope you see the reall meaning behind it. i looked into her eyes and i asked her if she was ready to find peace. not death, but peace. she affirmed with her eyes, and i prayed with her for strength to face whatever was entailed. she lived and to my knowledge, still does. it is the peace we are ready to make with what we know at the time that seems to be important. not fatalism, but peace.

_________________________
journey well,
theo dewolfe

- It is gift, and gift will find its way
- I inherit through my choice. I build through my affirmation. It is through my freedom that I nurture, or fade into autonomy
- I was not given to serve life, but to embrace it

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#61894 - 09/06/04 06:08 PM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Sammy,

First of all that therapist who told you that 2 survivors can't make it is an ass. I don't really know these stats but if as many people are SA as everyone says, the odds are that 2 survivors are doing just fine together somewhere. Whatever, that's not the point of your post but it bugged me.

No, of course in a relationship that lasts for 17 years, no one is totally innocent. I don't think you are so stupid for telling the truth about what happened between you and your friend. If you and your husband are ever going to really talk/work through any of this shit, he has to understand where you are coming from and why, and maybe he has to make the connection somewhere that something you did the summer before last does not make something that happened *before that* your fault. Besides, you talk about reclaiming your dignity and modesty, what better way to show your dignity than to put your 100% honest self out there and say, This is me, take it or leave it.

Sammy, no matter what news you get from the docs I hope you are making healthly choices, emotionally and physically-- you are worth it and we are pulling for you here.


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#61895 - 09/06/04 07:00 PM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Sammy
I read the first post and copied this -

Quote:
I've lost one hell of a lot of dignity and modesty in my life trying to do the right thing and give him & others room.... FUCK THAT
And I agree, completely. Everyone has a right to self dignity. And although I know that partners give up so much of it to help those they love, nobody should give it all up.

Then I read your second post, and you're talking again. "SOME" dignity is regained.


Quote:
basically as he maintains his sobriety from sex addiction I become trusting of him and maintain my own sobriety from "checking up on him" , or trying to catch him in a lie?
And as slow as it was , that there was no great instant epiphamy moment that said "hey I trust you now", it had occured over time and I was unaware just as he was until the "trust" had become challenged.
Ain't that the truth! it's a slow and confusing ride, for both of you given your histories.
And just how much do they overlap each other?
Also the day's you "need" he might "need" as well, sure-fire conflict there.

Is there an answer? if there is I think you'll find it!

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#61896 - 09/07/04 08:03 PM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
****CAUTION CONTAINS MANY MANY TRIGGERS & CUSSIN**** IF YOU ARE NOT IN A GOOD SPACE DO NOT READ THIS!*********


First something here for SAR, -- making "healthy choices"... well I had NOT been, I was on this short lived self harming binge. I'm not a cutter or a drinker or some what I can only find probably wrong words for uhm normal or obvious types of self harm.... actually I wasnt even on a "binge of self harming" I was actively trying to kill myself.
Lord knows I have enough medications around here to do it just due to my health problems. I kept telling myself and those that were calling or dropping by (i had my friend come get the shit of his he left in my apt)that if I killed myself I could do it in such a way that it would not look like a damn over dose -- heart problems , well hell folks die in there sleep all the time from MI's .... What I had for a medical background for so many years that was a life time ago that I am not sure even really happened anymore -- I knew by NOT taking my meds and over using certain meds, well... the inevitable would happen and given my health history no one would be in any big hurry to do an autopsy.... beside all the stents I have etc... they would never have known unless someone had let the cat out of the bag (and who put the cat in the bag to begin with? some stoner that thot it was funny? ok enuff avoidance humor) --
So I had been self harming by NOT taking my meds and using far too much of pain killers mix it with a coffee & bailys, made for a little drunker / stoner easier to deal or hide the pain I geuss... Why in God's name does it hurt so much more to CRY than to get so freaking wasted & on the edge of barfing ???? Crying is certainly easier , altho it does for me take more energy , but to use the energy to put together some cocktail of drugs... and take days to do it.. cuz holy smack I HAVE had to clean up suicides that people have Overdosed & shot themselves & believe me I KNOW I am too chicken to do it THAT way..
somehow i got off topic here and i dont know why please bear with me?? --
So today I awoke over at the husband house, yesterday was a bad one physically for me, I am at a point where I am falling frequently & just in general the heat is a real killer on ticker patients.... so I had stayed on his couch. We had talked, he and the kiddoes (they aint kiddoes i need to change that wording the "young adults") cleaned out the garage together and I hid in the A/C. I had only made a cup of coffee and had read an email when in comes the youngest daugh. who is just recently moved back after college (job hunting ugh) ANYWAY, it was this horrific nightmare replay of some events of what had occurred BEFORE husband had gotten so low in his sex addiction that he had the party and ended up in bed with this particular daughters acquaintance..... I know she is stressed (the daugh) her bio dad & step mom split up & just this past wk her bio dad moved several states away Waaaaayyyy up in the north west to kill big animals with big horns .... and work. But I am sittin on the couch feeling like a ton of shit -- which is pretty much my normal feeling first AM before coffee is in me, I flipped thru some channels... decided I couldnt handle anything gross & stopped on CMT (country music)--- Miss THING goes half swaying stomping by with a snot remark of "I just Caaant Handle ANY country today!) I also wondered just exactly when in the hell I reproduced some Hilton daughter drama queen a woman?... I ignored her so big fucking deal, leave... nope gotta come back made a comment on some gal who sang a tune with my man Willie and then yet another comment about the channel...oh HELL NO!
What the fuck am I doing? i put my jeans on, poured my coffee into a travel mug and took out for my OWN house.. felt like poop dizzy puking all wkend flu something? anyway she says, You arent ok to drive if you wait I will take you (excuse me this is the SAME daugh who WOULD NOT go to grocery for me the other day something I cant do due to disability alone) said hey, dont sweat it I got it...well, are u mad? -- (sometimes I swear bill ingvald lives in my head) nope I said just pissed and YES I am mad, I am not gonna take any of your crap I have a perfectly good home of my own and I am going there. "Well, call me if you need anything" HUH? oh jeeze.... is this the GOTH girl INGVALD had show up at his door? --
I got home and took my BP -- wowowowowowowow, just NOT taking that BP med is enuff to kill my dumb ass... so I took my meds and laid down to get it under control... Self harm, neglect ---
I dont HAVE to do ANYThING to hurt myself except NOT take my stupid gross meds... but I am now and have it almost in the norm range.
the kicker in this, and this is the part SAR where I tried I think to start to tell you, is that summer bfore this one (i had the time wrong) I ended up in the ER with a big fat anurysm (sp) where the docs had gone in the femoral artery (thats the big fat one in your leg & groin) well it exploded and I almost bled to death & almost died (husband was with me and saved my life truly)... the whole effin summer, I spent with several surgeries to repair it & plastic surgeons and a gappin gross hole in my body filled with a stinkin staph infection -- 7 wks flat on my back, and another 3 months at home having a wound vac sucking nasty shit out of me, and no one and I mean NO ONE but 3 visits from visiting nurses on RARE occassions (that the insur ok'd) to take care of me, now that long on the back one loses muscle mass quickly -- === many weeks of pain , physical therapy trillions of doc appts you name it some night mare that doesnt even equal FREDDY and his claws.... this is where the friend came in... I tried like hell to forgive my husband as it had to be hard on him to deal with what I had to go thru and what he himself had witnessed/worred about etc. -- hell I ended up being a drug addict just from the fear of the pain from it... Long story short thats where this friend helped me out.. and I CAN walk now, not well, but I CAN --- (in the midst of this i had lost a cardiac rehab buddy to sudden MI)
This mornings episode with daugh was a flashback from hell in attitude as to what led up to his stress level that pushed him over the edge to drinking before the whole event of being charged with rape. So --- I am sitting here in wonderment, is this going to be repeat ? .... We do have some differences this time, he is in active therapy, .... he can and DOES tell her NO, she is more mature but still hasnt dealt with her own guilt etc over the whole "rape" deal.

Dignity -- there are so many folds to dignity for myself.... and it has been challenged, changed and damaged in many ways. I am not sure i have any left... I think so , but that is probably attached to something called "Hope" , hope it dont get much worse.
For me Dignity and Modesty somehow are almost inseperable. What modesty I have had over all these years has been very attached to my dignity.
While being raped/molested/ etc... I was forced to lose modesty, and in turn emotionally I lost dignity in myself.
While I have been thru so much physically health wise, I lost a certain amount of modesty -- but was a bit of acceptable of it because some things in the med field just are -- for example, getting my pubic area shaved for an angioplasty --- the worst experience tho' was after being forced to be flat on my back for about 5 weeks I had to use the bedpan, it was humilating beyond anything I had ever experienced this is the gods honest truth.... then to add insult to injury in walks a nursing assistant who is going to wipe my ass who I had worked with... it was as if it wasnt just the icing on the cake for insult or even salt in the wound ....It was the stealing and raping of the last ounce of Modesty and Dignity that I had kept inside of me next to my steely heart.
It tore me to the bottoms of the deepest of a hole I dont think I have yet to have come out of. Only later thru wound vac therapy was I forced to do some "posing" as in I had to spread my legs apart as I sat in a recliner and the wound specialist would take pictures of my wound to document healing (sorry if thats triggering but true).
I know that my therapist has told me and it didnt take a huge rocket scientist to figure this part out... that just because of where my wound was and the way it had to be cleaned and cared for was as if I was being repeatedly raped and reliving in real life what I went thru as a child, ..... the pain was real, the smells were real, the being forced to be immobilized were real .... and that last thing .... that last piece of modesty and dignity that somehow I had hung on to all these years was torn away....
I no longer could even have a BM in privacy or comfort or wipe my own behind

I had thought that when my husband had shared that he was facing rape charges, and that I had lowered myself to ask my docs to write letters on his behalf to the judge asking for leinency so he could care for me, if he didnt work no insur no insur I would die basically, the docs even made sure his "weekends" in jail were just over nighters so that he would be with me during the days to care for me.... and I am not sure WHY I chose to do this for him?>
I know I loved and do Love him. I know I respect and first think of him as a CO Survivor in pain, he is also my very own secondary victim as I am his. I try to give him room to fuck up, just as much as I have fucked up....
but laid out as I said to him the other day, with his sex addiction action if we stacked fuck ups side by side -- his are still way taller than mine will ever be.
And that is probaby where in a whole bunch of my anger with him lies. That he some how stooped to this behavior (god forgive me for being so judgemental right now) of being a sex addict. I took the inititiave (sp) of seeking to learn as much as I possibly could about the difference for male sex abuse survivors as opposed to female sex abuse survivors. There are many great differences, and yet many like results.
Just in my opinion, females have some how been trained or connected or something to be able to disclose if not to a larger group at least to one other person in their life times. Of course each of us have our own healing paths whether male or female and where we are upon those paths depends on any muliples of factors.
I have tried to be honest through out my life, know what blatant lies I have told and even tho I've told them know that my rationalizing of them is for my own selfishness of not being able to be honest with myself.
Where we go from here? I have no idea, I know that today I have made a choice to get back on track of taking care of my health in the proper way because I need to. I know that my death can only happen when my Creator calls me to cross over.
Relationship with hubby, he phoned & interupted this ungodly long rambling spree to let me know that our youngest daugh was there with him (he put tires on her car & he is keeping an IOU record on her) -- he was wanting so badly to send her to me to go to the store for me so that I had grocery's & someone to sit in while I took a bath.... I told him no, please not to make the choice to get between her and I again. That he must work his own relationship with her, and that I must work my own relationship with her. We cant let her get between us again. If we do --- we would be just repeating what I was talking about.
This is hard work for us -- not just as a couple, but as a family. There is so little "true" support for us. Friends get worn out quickly when someone they care about or love is terminally ill and slowly dying, it is far harder on those who are family members. One can only ask so much of others -- I keep telling folks the honest truth is.... I could never be in "their shoes" if I had to deal with me. I doubt I could do it.
Yet, I have this double standard of thought I geuss that says.... I would never leave them, I would go get their grocerys with them --- I would make time to help them shower... I would not let them end up in a nursing home, I would help them die with dignity.... and yet inside I know my heart would not be able to withstand the pain for very long and even I too would leave them.
I'm so screwed up in the head and heart ---- I want so fucking badly to go back to go back and live... live the life I had and take advantage of every second that was an opportunity to do the right thing.... and I am scared that the last few days, months or years left I have I will fuck them up so sorely that God will look down on me and ask me "Why? Why child did you choose when I gave you so many opportunities to live, you turned from me.....

A messed up Sammy who needs to shut up
Blessings of Peace for All


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#61897 - 09/09/04 08:17 PM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Sammy
never - ever - "shut up".

In amongst your extraordinary "ramblings" there lies so much compassion for others, even given your health the way you fight for what is YOURS is an inspiration to me.
You DO have the right to "want so fucking badly to go back to go back and live... live the life I had and take advantage of every second that was an opportunity to do the right thing...."

everyone of us has that right, maybe we're never going to achieve it in the way we dream of, but I'm going to fight all the way for it.
It's better to go down fighting than give up, and I just can't imagine you giving up somehow.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#61898 - 09/10/04 04:34 PM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
(((((((((((((sammy))))))))))))))))

I'm feeling really sad, torn, about your news about your health.. I have absolutely no idea how you are feeling - this is something that I truly cannot comprehend.. I can try to empathize as much as possible.... I just feel so bad for you, your family, etc.

I dont think you should feel ANY need to regret not leading a "stand up" life - from what I've read from you over the past few years and especially in your posts on this thread I see SO much of what you've done as truly giving, loving and admirable. You've continually sacrificed yourself, your mental energy and BEEN THERE for your husband, your family, despite being emotionally abandoned, betrayed, and hurt by him in addition to dealing with your own SA.

You've tried to protect your family and others as best you could. And you've been terribly hurt in the process. You've done SO MUCH for people despite carrying a heavy load. I'm sure God doesn't forget stuff like that. I'm sure a great reward awaits for you when God DOES call you home, whenever that may be. Dont second guess that.


"Blessed are they who suffer persecution for justice sake, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven"


P


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#61899 - 09/21/04 09:26 AM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
Maybe the only justice is in a fucking crack pipe ? -- I wonder that tonight, this early AM, because I spent a few hours with a man down the hall from me who had the luxury ,and yes it is a fucking luxury, to be able to have a CABG done this past spring or so , by pass of the arterys in the heart, something that Mayo clinic denies me along with going on a heart transplant list because to quote them" you would disease the heart too fast" -- and I am angry that a woman I know who is 64 recieved the heart of a 17 yr old, tho her own children are grown and her life fulfilled as much as my own -- yea, the fucking irony pisses me off when I am only 43 facing MAYBE getting to 44, but probably more like 5 more years of slow physical degradation, not just emotionally but phyysically also.
What has happened since I last posted? Hubby so fucking graciously gave me some extra cash i had saved some of my piddly pitance of 560 a mth to get out to visit my oldest daugh. who had asked specificially for a visit from me, mostly to help her with housing issues my so called volunteeer "forte'" --- but as I got there it was obvious I was going to be useless other other than a few phone calls, as there was and is no garuntee that she be able to remain anonymous to protect her from being "harrassed" from the new apt. she was basically forced to sign a lease for under duresss as they made her "homeless" by fucking with her on her last day of moving out -- i taught both of my girls to be responsible with their monies, and reporting repairs etc.. she couldnt extend her current lease as her apt had already been rented, so she ended up paying rent to her long term boyfriends mom, a nut ball with reason... my daugh called me in tears, begging me to come, a daughter who has a hard time just calling an checking in on a regular basis to let us know she is still ok, and we are still alive. I understand she is not the type who can handle my illness --- so I havent pushed and while there the visit ended in an explosion, and not only that i was physically ill needing physician care as I have an upper respirtory some shit that feels as if it has or is on the brink of full blow CHF congestive heart failure -- I dont know why i am telling u this shit but i want u to have a full pic from my perspective.
Hubby was pissy about me leaving, left on sunday the day i was to leave with a "hurried" voice and action as to me leaving, to spend as much time as i needed to be with her as "you havent spent much time with her" -- the statements and behaviors coming from him were waaay too reminescent of sending me on my doctors order vacation only to come home to him telling me he was facing rape charges... so of course my gut was on overload, but my not good sleeping pattern and dealing with a life time of narcolepsy and THAT bullshit of waking process started off a real god damn happy ass trip for several hours for me.
He chose to play baseball, instead of sticking around to say good bye to me or to help me pack or make sure i was in a decent place to even fucking drive. BEfore I lost signal on my cell phone i called him, and not being able to keep my mouth shut, i mentioned in a calm voice what I felt FELT mind you from my experience of him paking my ass off so very quickly ,..... that i was concerned i was going to come home to finding out that he had in deed acted on or out with these females on the "team", and especially a younger female who has been more than happy to flirt and show her tits to a group of men who are old enough to be her father/s age. -- Given history I apparently was supposed to be just hunky dory in trusting him and any of those females who he had "announced" for over a week we were divorcing not to my knowledge at the time.... but I drove on anyway figuring I WAS the one with the problem, and MY mind was the one fucked up in thought process, after all -- his therapist btw Ken Singer irony yet again in my life the same therapist you recomended to us is the only game in town and the guy he has been seeing for quite some time now sporadically.
I tried and continue to try like hell to be the bigger better, more understanding improved, person so hubby can "have his pain and confused time".... man that crack pipe is looking good and tempting tho i have never used in my life but i keep thinking --- crack = instant death.
I had called hubby on friday just to check in and say hi, to see how he was doing.... Big mistake HUGE mistake, he decides to tell me that his oh so fucking wise therapist has "advised him" that we should do a "trial divorce" keeping a calm voice i said "What is a "trial divorce"?, What have the last 3 years been? His response is that we stay separated but "date" other people. Hmmm, thats awful funny, when I DID try to date someone else when he wasnt doing ANYTHING, he ended up in the crayola wing with "memory floods" -- so I stopped that relationship immediately (graciously telling that poor confused man my separated spouse had some childhood issues that I needed to support him thru sorry, but gotta blaze -- seems that was all really hubby needed the basis of what i suspect truly was and perhaps still is "I dont want her, but NO ONE else can have her either"?...
I respected his boundaries that he laid out, continued my own 15 yr saga of fucking therapy and support groups FIFTEEN FUCKING YEARS so I wouldnt be harming anyone, and making sure I stayed on track for healing what I KNEW were MY fucking problems to heal.
I have made BIG mistakes, HUGE mistakes, ..... and I think the biggest mistake I ever made was number one even fucking TELLING ANYONE, number two, promising NOT to do to my kids what my parents did to me "ABANDON THEM"....oooohhh big fuck up. I reached out to so many to so many over so many years, and did the fucking homework, and the result is = I FUCKING FLUNKED AT LIFE!
DEstined no matter HOW MUCh, work , cliff notes, or study group available that i used or even going to "professsors" I still FLUNK, dont even get a god damn C for effort folks....
Apparently Honesty does NOT count in any form no matter how or WHY ones intentions are there. Apparently the part of the "game" no one told me about or alluded to that was noted in the back of the "book" is that one must continue to lie, not only to themselves but more importantly to their life partners. NO matter how big or small --- LIE, cover up, paste a fucking smile on your unhappy self, and then pretend that all is hunky dory attend some church, volunteer and nod and repeat "My my, isnt that nice, so glad to hear your doing well."
NO I am not bitter, not one fucking iota of a god damn non existent higher power bullshit.... humans are simply animals out for the better of themselves in the heap of the "pack". And remember even dogs & cats will fuck their siblings, & parents.... and we think they are "loyal"....
I made further mistakes on friday by calling my therapist and "crying", I was upset, hubby tells me his choice is that he just wants a divorce. Hmmm, ok --- but after 3 yrs and the last info I had we were going into a "session" with his therapist, my therapist and the 2 of us? What happened?
Oh, He's still ANGRY because of my admittance to him of my so called affair with the only person who stepped up to the proverbial plate to help me walk and become somewhat viable in this community.... FUCK ME SIDEWAYS JIMBO I FUCKED UP!!
I stupidly and I repeat STUPIDLY called my therapist "crying" i honest to god did not know this was a cardinal sin for women to do when told via telephone that their 18 yr relationship is over no if's and's or but's based upon some so called therapist "advice" or "suggestion" to try a trial divorce BEFORE marriage counseling -- uhm, I did ask was he aware that we had been physically separated for 3 years? and yes he was / is supposedly aware of this His info is based on what hubby shared which is very true if one can place an 18 yr relationship into SIMPLICITY impossible but he can some how? that the ONLY thing we have done is succeed in taking turns in "hurting each other" -- excuse me may I interject? DUH!!!! THAT is WHY I have been in therapy for 15 fucking years KNOWING I WAS BROKEN GOODS!! BUT, my hubby is so god damn innocent in his actions, he just doesnt want to hurt me or himself anymore....
I called my T who in his freaked out pussy self calls my hubby, then my daughter at her JOB!! FUCKER FUCKER FUCKER!!
So, who in the fuck has any experience in actually dealing with a real live survivor of CSA? apparently NO ONE suicide is a door that opens down a long hall way the moment a child is molested, raped, tortured, especially for the course daily for about oh my best guess 17 fucking years.
Oh I am no dumby, he did his "job", alright, but he did it ALL damn wrong, he involved my DAUGHTER in BULLSHIT he had NO right to involve her in. In all these fucking years, I have NEVER ACTED on my suicidal tendancy to actually do something in front of or that would leave a mess for my kids to clean up.
This is in reality one bitch who is dying anyway, just really really slowly and really really painfully --- we can euthanize those same dogs and cats and rats that will fuck their immediate offspring if they become ill or diseased, but not a god damn human animal???? OH pleeeeze I am so sick of hearing about how much it would scar my kids.... I have fucking heart problems, and the only difference is that my death is a slow process that is painful for me physically and emotionally.... which in turn does NOT allow them the proper grieving they deserve, if I died suddenly with NO disease attachment, they could grieve and say "gee miss my mom but eventually get on with life"... this is torture what they experience with my disease... I KNOW its fucking torture for ME!
My oh so bright and brillant fucking therapist can agree to my face , but some how its his fucking job to over react to me getting shitty NEWS that even HE was baffled over, he works right next door office to hubbys T, and the FIRST question he asks is the same one I asked "what the hell is a "trial divorce" , the explanation given & repeated "we live apart, but "date others" , excuse me teacher can I interupt with a question here....
WHAT THE FUCK WAS HIS GOD DAMN SEX ADDICTION BEHAVIOR FOR 15.7 YRS OF AN 18 YR MARRIAGE? the only difference is the "affair/S" he had were ones that involved REAL and IMAGINED females. and VERY REAL god damn HIV/ STD testing for ME to go through not to mention supporting him during his fucking RAPE CHARGES, that I had my docs write pity letters to get his "oh my gawd i am surivor of rape" ass out of..... Jesus Christ I feel played like a bad pair of deuces.....
I left my daughters later that evening, I was so god damn emabarrassed after having to explain to her that my so called therapist blew shit out of proportion, and that "dad" had dropped a bomb, she at least supported my position by saying this much "Mom, women are still not in this society allowed to cry, be angry or upset especially when it comes to a "man" hearing it." Hmmm I think I did good --- she is right in that statement... she was more than happy to see me go, as I told her she was and is NOT a part of her "dad and I's" relationship problems.....
so hubby's wonderful big fat slobby therapist can give hubby an armchair diagnosis of a wife he has never met tho i have tried for over 6 years to get into "marriage counseling" supposedly he should read about "borderline personality disorder" -- as he gives this advice to someone who is diagnosed ADD/ & piler = no time = skim reader = basically anyone and EVERYONE could be diagnosed with border line personality disorder especially a survivor of CSA.... Hmmmm I wonder if I should shove the fat ass out of his chair an collect his fucking pay check and let him live like I HAVE TO LIVE???? naaaww his fat ass aint worth it he still wouldnt "get it".
I arrived home on friday evening about midnight or so... had called a friend yes my SAME friend who i had S E X with at one time to have him help me unload my car = cant physically do it, he agreed, checked out the area so that I knew if hubby was anywhere around as his behavior and voice indicated over the phone he was not trust worthy as to whether he would hurt me or not..... he had an episode where i had to threaten to call cops to get him off property......for my safty and his...
so, am here until today about noon, had decided that i was going to give him what he wanted --- a divorce, can do it in 3 days, went looking for shit to hock -- called him told him had been in house and was willing to pay for 1/2 divorce, he agrees, tell him his actions have proven he would never take the action so realized he was doing these things to "push me" into action as that was notorious of him, over all these years and so would just follow thru, i had to get on with living or dying, either way him not acting was holding up me from being able to accomplish my needs.
He was so fucking calm and agreeable, to tell me "I told you I would pay for this" ... my response is that his behavior history was bad and that I was taking control calling his hand and doing it myself he was not trustworthy and that I was responsible for me... then he gets all "oh i am so worried what are u planning in his voice"... FUCK THAT, I simply replied quite nicely and calmly that I knew he would not file, and that I was doing it, he just needed to sign off the pages in 3 days....
he called me back after a few minutes some shit about a question of blah blah nothing to do with divorce.... UGH! AVOOO*IIIIIDDDAAANNNNCCCCEEE!!!!
tried to lay some line of shit on me that he didnt even know i had been in town since friday -- uhm, if he would COMMUNICATE WITH ANYONE his daughters excuse me MY daughter WOULD have told him she got an email from me saying i was home, sick with cold but fine....
I told him several things when i got in my place.... some pretty big things that have laid me wide open for even more hurt --- but god damn it this is WAR! and not WAR to GET a DIVORCE but WAR to NOT become yet another fucking victim of our abusers!!!
I got to thinking, ya know i unloaded my first hubby cuz he was a drunk and knew before i married him i would divorce him as i knew he was my "escape route" from my so called "dad" raping and molesting me every fucking day .... it was ugly only cuz i had birthed his kiddoes and wanted to make sure they were CARED for financially....
I married THIS man because he loved me, i found out much later he says out of guilt ??? I did and DO love him, he by far has done far more damage than any drunk could have done and I stuck out this marriage.... was he fucking BLIND? STUPID? nope, the doc has checked him out, he's functioning with all of physical capabilities in place.... and he is working on the emotional shit, maybe with a hopelessly stupid therapist tho? The man is intelligent and has the capabilities to understand much and is compassionate and caring.... I know it , I have experienced it but fucked up in trying to protect, love, and allow him to HIDE behind what he has mistaken as my bravado in facing and dealing with my Rapists, Incestors, and Molestors... MY whole functioning tool in my life has been out of complete fucking FEAR! I chose to ACT rather than to FREEZE.....
I decided that since his latest has been the range of emotions resulting from "feeling betrayed" entitled i know i feel and felt this for over 17 yrs with him & he is feeling a bit of what i have felt and it is still raw for him Mr god damn Golden Boy who has been allowed to present to society the GOLDEN PERFECT SON / BOY PERSONA..... and I stupidly allowed it thinking all along, I could not fix him, or push him that all survivors must heal in their own time..... nice line of bullshit til it gets down to only having a few months maybe a couple more years in my life here thanks docs you've been real fucking sports in helping this crabby unrealistic living in a fantasy believing in your lies and societal lies continue existing but havent figured out for WHAT bitch....
So, I broke i got told apparently i have failed to tell and show my hubby just exactly how much i love him? but got no, NONE , NOT ONE fucking answer as to HOW that is to happen or be expressed?.... I told him plain and simple, nope wasnt gonna give him the divorce, isnt what i want, aint gonna fight for anything but for what we BOTH have wanted since we were small... btw mr was at work yet again on his day off hmmmmm jeezus can we just over do ourselves into avoidance any more? --- I told him the truth is that I know for me and for HIM too that ever since we were small children we had sworn to our secret little selves "WE would never do this to our kids", BUT in reality we also swore we would never give in to divorce as easily as his parents did = one said i want a divorce get the fuck out, the other responded with an OK, and did --- nope decided If I was going out I was going out with a FIGHT, and I told him I could be a bitch and fight him for the house, autos, toys, insurance forever, half his 401, and a monthly stipend so I didnt have to live in the fucking Tard hotel disability housing being afraid of being raped, molested attacked by the very fucking people i used to take care of when i was working in health care.... i was dirty -- i told him i could be a bitch and make him sell all that shit, or insisit i live in the house until i died with my daughter caring for me, ... and good luck as a registered sex offender finding a place to live that was NOT with in 1500 feet of any "kids" laws can be stupid but good too.... told him tho, it wasnt about STUFF or things or money, never has been.... for me it was going to be a FIGHT to save what he and I both have spent our lives fighting for and wanting.... OUR FAMILY, THE ONLY GOD DAMN THING THAT HAS EVER MEANT ANYTING TO EITHER ONE OF US! ME HIM and BOTH THOSE GIRLS!!
and no matter what his stupid fat ass therapist said it was not going to be accomplished living in 2 different households in 3 yrs in hasnt why would it now?.... apparently the therapist IS aware we havent lived together in 3 yrs....
I told him, look this may sound like some fucking drama queen and i aint never been one! but now I was gonna lay it out... maybe my idea is fucked up but if we are going to seriously work on US, that meant we had to do it under ONE roof, and none of this quiet little voice of "move back" bullshit, what I have always needed from him and WANTED from him is to come over, tell me to get my shit packed up I was moving home and then sit me on the couch and TELL me just exactly WHAT he expected me of as a WIFE!
**believe me the snot was rolling from both of our sides on the phone***
WEll, in the course of the conversation he agrees that is what he wants also.... a few moments later he wants to call his therapist --- OH FUCK MY ASSHOLE HARD OK?! Of course his therapist is going to say "all the right stuff" a therapist should advise --- duh, been in therapy long enuff to figure out its not god damn rocket science... he's gonna advise him to "wait awhile at least until there is some action in marriage counseling" why? because he is still "CONFUSED" --- confused my ASS, he is HURTING !! and rightfully so, but as I see it, suck the shit up, I did for 17 fucking years and was far too fucking "patient for him to heal in his own time".... i GOT A GOD DAMN TIME LINE HERE ASSHOLES! of course being the "good person" i have been according to some bodys fucking legend I agreed that was his right, but also straight up told him it scared the living shit out of me, that he basically is holding MY LIFE in his decision and I was NOT going to be waiting for very fucking long... NO LONGER than this coming THURSDAY..... why? because he holds the gun and 2 bullets, I need to know whether to expend what little physical energy and health i have left into moving into the house and working on the marriage.... or using that energy to figure out how to 1. exist for a short while, 2. finish the steps to either THRIVE or die ...
EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL????perhaps, but truth and i know it.... problem is maybe others dont quite understand, i aint afraid of dying, I KNOW I am going to die, and it is not going to be some lovely hospice someone holding my hand --- it will be painful even if I am lucky enough to "have an MI in my sleep" -- been there done that and it FUCKING HURTS!! Ya dont just stop in your sleep --- even if you are on the surgical table one wakes up with SEVERE PAIN, and SEVERE FEAR.....
Later i talked with my daugh that lives here in town... oh she and "daddy" are going to concert tonight -- isnt that fucking great? I have a fucking chest & head infection along with a urinary bladder infection that has been setting off my sciatic pain so fucking bad i cant even fart or take a piss with out excrutiating pain --- but aahhhhh the insurance Co says my physical therapy does me no good? Grrrrr fucking morons are more than happy to pay for amputation & drugs MAJOR drugs than 120 bucks a wk for physical therapy there is NO GOD and NO JUSTICE!!
so she tells me that daddy had a back deck chat with "our friend" who i had a sexual relationship with..... OOhhhhhh we didnt bother to tell ME about this ....NEITHER OF THEM HAVE THE HAIR ON THEIR BALLS TO DO SO!
"They" decided that "friend" had no remorse, would do it all over again, loved me and cared about me very much ???? where in the fuck has HE been for this summer???? aahhh visiting probably the SAME fat fucking therapist hubby visits? AAaaahhhgggghhhh -- so Hubby on that cue decided he could never forgive me and he just is gonna leave me in the dust.....
funny, the cost to divorce in this state is exactly the same cost for cremation and filing a death certificate? Hmmmmm any one else find that IRONIC??? It causes me to want to truly flip a fucking coin ----
But here i sit in my lovely view of the mississippi that now represents a physical chasm between my hubby and myself a mere 3.7 miles apart -- but one cannot swim that mighty miss as the roller dams or the undercurrent will kill you... one can take a brige **watched a man jump from one of them as we crossed it, and killed himself, but that was gory and horrific to experience watching someone take a dive to cement knowing it takes about 7 or 8 min. to die once you splatter your brains on the cement....and even worse to dial the 911 for no reason other than to scrape him up and use the fire engine to hose off the gore left behind**
one can take a route of several other bridges to get from one side to the other....

Either way, I've been fucked, in so many ways and I am sick to death of it... I'm so god damn sick it is killing me truly.... my hubbys oh so wise therapist has told him we are "making each other sick" -- huh? MAKING? I said jeesus crhist.... we both knew and spoke out loud when we got together and married we knew we were "broken", but we make a choice to walk hand in hand to get thru this life together with LOVE....
I watched some dork ass show the other night , toward the end some couple that had divorced one asked "what happened to us" ? the other answered "Perhaps one of us forgot just exactly HOW much we were loved by the other" --- I told hubby that, I told him if we split then our Perps win yet again, and by god we had made a pact that those fuckers would NOT win against us, if we give in to the divorce that is exactly what happens....
I'm scared, I laid open myself raw ..... he has the knowledge now of just exactly HOW much power I have allowed him to have all these years --- I ALLOWED IT.... and I am now voicing it because he has been too, too fill in the blank but I just can only say "too stupid" to realize just exactly how much he has been loved, and is loved and will be loved....
Someone posted here something about perhaps not liking the outcome of the survivor's healing ----
who ever said that "I can tell you from my seat as a spouse, You're fucking right on the money sport"....
It's not that I dont want him to be everything that I have seen and known about him for longer than he even had an inkling in him he has "value", it's the hard fact I am NOT willing to pay the price of pissing away 18 years of being invested more than 100% on more than just a couple of occassions..... I am in the fight of my life.... FOR what I KNOW is god damn RIGHT!
i have had the choices to be a fucking doper, a fucking whore, a slut, believe all the bullshit that my perps said to me ---- I FOUGHT that shit, I aint perfect, but I have given everything I could and can to the point of what i truly believed triggered my own health problems that will cause an early death --- was and still am willing to pay that high price for doing whats right as I Live surrounded by people on public assistance who are dopers and draw assistance for being dopers, spend that cash on dope, crack etc.... and i worked, raised kids, supported a spouse and extended family, and even kids that are not of my flesh and blood.....
I'LL BE GO TO FUCKING HELL IF I GIVE IN TO SOME BULLSHIT DIVORCE!!
I MAY BURN IN HELL FOR BEING SO FUCKING ANGRY -- angry that I spent hours sometimes just imaging blowing away my perps in detail, hours wasted planning on how to kill myself to rid the pain and anguish......
BUT FUCK IT, I AM JUST NOW GONNA GET ANGRY ENOUGH TO FUCKING HOLD SOME REAL ASSHOLES FEET TO THE FIRE !!! NO MORE MRS PERFECT FUCKING PATIENT FOR HIM TO TAKE HIS TIME TO HEAL IN HIS TIME.... THAT HAS BOUGHT ME NOTHING BUT EVEN MORE PAIN AND LONELINESS....
If I am gonna die, its gonna be ON MY TERMS ---!!! IS ANYONE FUCKING LISTENING TO THIS??? GOD DO YOU FUCKING HEAR ME??!! MY TERMS YOU SON OF A BITCH!
and to think, that lovely call i left for my own stupid ass therapist yesterday asking him for a call back resulted in???.....
yep, i know i'm still waiting too ------
NO ONE CARES SO TAKE CHARGE, AND BOSS JOHNSON, ya know what if that fat fucker of a therapist he has tells him we need to wait for me to move back in together before we work on working on a marriage which is impossible to do not being under the same roof by the way -- I AM GOING IN TO THAT FUCKING OFFICE AND BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF HIM, AND THE DUMB FUCKER I "HAD" FOR A THERAPIST....
whats the worst that can happen??? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH jail? nope sorry dudes already been in captivity and at least behind bars i dont have to figure out what to cook for myself, set my own meds up, or even do my own fucking laundry AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I FUCKING WIN!!!!!!

and yes i feel better after unloading that but i mean every fucking word of it and i will and am going to do everything i promised with my head held just as high as i have always had it.....
tears get ya nothing but a snotty nose, and a head ache.....

Sammy


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#61900 - 09/21/04 01:37 PM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Sammy I am listening. I don't know what I can do for you but let you know that someone is listening. \:\(

Guilt is not worth it Sammy, you're a fighter and it sounds like you are ready to start a big fight on behalf of yourself and your family. That voice tells you to feel dirty, guilty, bitchy, for focusing your energy and actions on getting what you want on your own terms-- that voice isn't really yours and it's not right.


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#61901 - 09/21/04 01:39 PM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
oops, duplicate post


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#61902 - 09/21/04 07:50 PM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Sammy
one thing nobody can take away from you is your pride in what you HAVE achieved.
I8 years and two kids is some achievement given both your backgrounds, and I don't mean that to sound patronizing.

So is it any wonder that you're fighting for what you believe in? no, not at all.
It would be easy to say "fuck it, I'm outta here!" and go and join some hippy commune in the sun, but you seem to realise that wherever you go your mind follows you, we can run - but we can't hide.

I think I understand your choice of choosing to fight, and I even admire it.
"Sammy quit" Isn't something we're ever likely to hear.

Take care.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#61903 - 09/22/04 02:21 AM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
Well, after an ugly phone conversation in which hubby cut me off , the phone rang it was daughter in town.... she is sick, then daddy comes walking in from where she was callling me from, I wanted to talk to him as I had left a nasty voice mail thinking he just shut the phone off --- nope he got pissed and threw the damn thing and broke it. probably good cuz i left such a shitty message, hope i can remember to tell him that before he picks it up tommorrow hmmmmm...
I convinced him to talk to me on the phone and let me come over so I could talk to him face to face, it has been more than a couple weeks of not seeing or talking to him face to face. Daughter was blazing over to someone else's place as i got there....
we talked and not once did either of us raise our voices.. suprised the shit out of me!
Basically we just went over shit we already have discussed, but its so much easier when the person you love is on the other side of the table looking into your eyes the same time you look into theirs.
Funny he had this pile of clothing in a basket at the foot of the stairs of mine etc in the hallway for me, he was ready to go sign divorce papers tonight....
Long talk, he didnt cry, or even really flinch -- I did plenty I think for both of us tho,
It seems as if he wants some explanation or reasoning behind what happened after i got out of the hospital, my repeated refusals to allow him to come help me with that gapping wound -- for the first time I told him I think I just couldnt let him see or smell rot coming out of me, that for all my life I have felt has been in there, coming from a place from where it had been "injected" into me. He knew of my abusers before we married, not sure if I told him there were over a hundred before or after we were married??? He couldnt remember either -- it was suprising how much we agreed on, disheartening to hear that he is not sure if there is anything good in our relationship --- I began to list them, but his eyes sort of glazed over and I felt I had lost him so just stopped, ... it does no good when the ears stop hearing...
WE talked for about 3 or 4 hours, not once raising our voices --- something that I made sure to point out to him that made us so different than anyone who taught us to be adults (tho his anger shit and damaging, throwing shit still gets scary for me , i know it must surely come more from his actual abuse than being angry at me) --
He did let me hug him, and hold him a little bit, and he even held me some at the end --- we agreed for me to make an appt tommorrow with my T and his T for all of us together... I kept repeating in as many different ways as I could verbalize that I was NOT giving up on this marriage and that if we did it was just all of our perps winning and gaining more victims by leaving our daughters abandoned without two parents....
I also reached in and let the fear out of how I feel that I am abandoning them, by knowing I will die first --- he didnt seem too overly worked up or responsive to this.... but assured me that he did not feel that way????? I know tho' that he was working so hard not to be showing and expressing anger toward me.
I couldnt explain the relationship or why it happened with XX anymore than he could explain the prolonged sex addiction -- but yet again he drops even more news about the prostitutes he saw -- all the visits supposedly now have occured with in one week??? the story changes a little bit each and every time he tells it ---
I asked him if there was some way in his heart he could find a way to forgive me and work thru this just as I had and am working thru the sex addiction issues and the rape charge issues --- he says he isnt sure but he will try ---
WE made an agreement that there will be NO more "hot issues" discussed via the phone (he was on his motorcycle and drove like an asshole looking to kill himself on the way home from school that he skipped) -- and so I geuss folks this must be part of that whole --- moving forward shit....
Talking with him about the relationship with XX I really had some insight open up to possiblities as to HOW and perhaps WHY the whole stupid thing happenend to begin with.
the obvious question was it a way to "get back " at him for the years of emotional bullshit and prostitutes and HIV shit and the being charged with a sex crime -- but that seemed too simple and not enough,
I thot about how my T keeps pushing me about the position of the wound, and the healing process, -- and it didnt click until tonight, how much the smells of the whole damn process was so over whelming for me. Of how I worked so hard in our marriage to be "pure" for him all the while attempting to find a way to hide what I felt was pure black rotting on my inside -- a cancer of sexual abuse that continued to grow and untreatable now showing itself.
More importantly what hit me was that here I never thot of was this: I was under the influence as you know of very very strong meds -- it allowed for those ungodly unspoken sexual abuse shit to rise to the top, = one or two nights I ended up in the corner of my room in the fetal position, not knowing what the fuck was happening, and still dont remember exactly what happened, only that i vaguely remember screaming something about needing and wanting my mom --- my friend went to see my T with me shortly after that to find a way to know what to do if faced with that experience again .... As I talked about this with hubby I realized -- I had worked so hard to "protect him" even further from the fall out of my abuse history... I could NOT add that to his already huge laundry list of problems I felt I had brought him i.e. my health & being a survivor which in reality only sent a message to him that I still didnt trust him, yet truth is I still dont trust ANYONE, and now even more so myself.
screwed bent thinking , but as we talked it was about how we "rationaled" our behaviors resulting from our SA --- a blink, a glimpse? a BIG something for me I have never put together before tonight ---
He is still hurting, he is going to... I have to give him that. He says I am still hurting from the shit he did to me?... yes, I am but in such a small way compared to what it had been -- smaller much smaller because I brought myself to this site to learn about his side as a survivor, and looked and studied and asked as much as I could handle about the differences for male and female survivors....
it scares me to know the odds are so thin for a male survivor to have a " long term marriage" that doesnt fall into the statistics of divorce because of issues resulting from SA.... I told him I really really did not want our perps to not only have OUR lives as statistics but more importantly OUR DAUGHTERS lives as well .....
He still was the gentle person he has always been with me and walked me to my car, kissed me gently and told me he loved me... I had asked if it was ok earlier if I could hug him... and hold him, he let me.... touch is so important even when one is so angry.... healing when that is what one needs so desperately the kind safe touch of one you trust even tho they may have hurt your innards more than can be described.....
pray for us please -- Pray that my husband forgives my fuck up, pray that we work this out, ... that we dont fall into just another statistic of Perps..... I know and have told him he is the only man I have ever loved, he holds ALL of my secrets, and I hold his which makes it that much easier to harm each other with those same secrets .... but please know if there is a GOD , I am TRYING to do the best I can,.... I aint perfect by far.... but I do forgive him, he doesnt believe that much , but coming to this website and learning so much from so many brave people so willing to bare their souls upon here, has taught me the REASONS I should forgive, --- now we just have to figure out how in the world this marriage is going to become a marriage again under ONE roof -- with the man and wife who love each other sharing the soft sounds of each others comforts as we drift into more peaceful sleeps.....
Bless us All as we seek to be filled with kindness, forgiveness, empathy, sympathy and love for even those who have hurt us....
A better Sammy who appreciates the gifts from others....


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#61904 - 09/22/04 07:12 PM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Sammy
Still, nobody's said it. And I'm not holding my breath waiting until they do say "Sammy's quit"

Keep trying.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#61905 - 09/22/04 11:16 PM Re: I dont even know what to title this as**caution cussin**
guy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/04
Posts: 236
Loc: nc
sammy and wifey,

wow, what long posts. i feel for both of you.

divorce is hard, i have twice. i was just engaged with a s.a. survivor and she freaked monday night. i got drunk, took some sleeping pills, and went out of it deep. we broke it off, she is the one who i have loved the most in my life. i still never trusted and my lack of trust has became a self-fulfilling prophecy- it ends and i trust others even less.

today, i am resentful . sammy talked abouut the new version. the new version of me was honesty. when i was honest while we were broken up for five months, i did one thing sexually with a man and she could not accept it. shewanted the truth, i gave it to her, she freaked and judged- thinks i have some deep dark secret that i need to deal with. may be right, i think it is bullshit. i can or could be bi or gay but love the shit out of her.

she had a former lesbian tryst and i am o.k. with that. she argues, hers was 12 years ago. mine was 5 months ago, just a bj from a guy in a porn shop when i was severely depressed, before even getting meds. she argues and dwells that that was the third time i did such, 87, 96 and now. i have some deep hidden secret she thinks. i do not think so, i love her to death but i got burned telling the truth.

i can tell both of you are pissed about what your going through.

i get pissed too. also, i do believe in counseling but my ex g/f fiancee went once, would not go again. that said a lot but i was thick headed and co-dependent so i just ignored what my t and told me. so, 7k later in putting down on a house, buying her a new ring that is not refundable, plus the 2.500 i lost on a house the lasttime we split- i am so co-dependent- i spend all my money and loose it.

anyhow, wherever your at, a good relationship is one of almost equals. if any side is dis-proportionatley over giving,etc... the other is frustrated; it won't work.

mine have been all that way, great women i have hurt, great women have hurt me. it is the trust issue for me and many survivors. then it becomes true, it hurts all invloved.

kids, family, they just don't get it. we s.a. survivors are sick at times, most don't funtion "normally". both sides have issues.

acceptance of all this makes a difference. i clammed up with all others, told the truth with thisone, am still alone and not in a meaningful relationship.

i/m going to my first coda meeting tommorow. my t recommended it. i could not go with my fiance for fear of being judged. wed are away now, i am going tommorow for me.

for what this is worth, i hope you all are o.k.
or will come out o.k.,, not without pain for sure, but relaxing as much as you can and realizing you are going through a hell of a process- in, out, back., divorced, counseling - i have done al that shit. i hate it. it hurts, costs lots of money, hurts others, etc..


guy


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