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#61338 - 08/08/04 09:47 PM forget it-im just a pest anyways
Anonymous
Unregistered


forget it, thanks for all your help, but i was told to leave himt he heck alone, so i am stupid for trying.


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#61339 - 08/09/04 11:33 AM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
Angelina,

I don't know what I can say to you except that I care about you and I want to think of yourself.

What you're talking about, how you're feeling, isn't healthy. It sure as Hell isn't healthy for you, and I hope you can see that.

Please, find someone to talk to about what's going on. A therapist, a friend, a family member who'll understand, SOMEONE!

And if things get worse for you, call a crisis hotline. They're in the phonebook or http://www.superpages.com.

PM me if you need anything. I care about you.

Peace and love,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#61340 - 08/09/04 03:32 PM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Angelina.. it sounds like you got caught in the crossfire of a bad breakup and also you are a "secondary victim" to your former partner's abuser/abuse experience. Its not an easy situation to be in and its tough when you KNOW in your heart that you did nothing but try to love and help your partner to be made out to be such an awful person. Remember you did NOTHING wrong by trying to help and love him - he is in a positon where he is so confused and freaked out he sees everything as a threat - kind of like a cornered animal.

I have had a similar experience with some former boyfriends (why I only dated survivors of some kind of abuse I"m not sure.. probably because I come from wicked abusive background myself) and I have had the experience several times of rapidly going from someone's "number one girl" to "public enemy number 1" so fast it made my head spin. It makes no sense, and its bewildering and perplexing and painful as hell.

Remember that when you are dealing with someone who has some very serious issues that you should NOT personalize what happened to the relationship.. there is damn little anyone can do when there are MASSIVE issues such as sexual abuse that are threatening the relationship, particularly if you are the non abused partner. Sometimes there are just things in life that are much bigger than we can do anything about and we have to let things go... This breakup was NOT your fault. It wasn't his fault, it wasn't anyone's fault. It just is. If you want ot put the blame anywhere, put it squarely on your ex's abuser.

Also remember that a lot of the sh** that your ex said to you about how you "were his problem" etc. etc. is NOT true. My own fiance says shit like that to me from time to time when he gets triggered or has flashbacks, etc. What that bull crap is, is NOT the truth but the result of a SERIOUS anxiety attack that he is having when someone is too close OR if he's being triggered.

Surviors have the double edged sword of desperately craving closeness, sometimes to the point of doing a lot of questionable things to get it (diving rapidly into relationships, etc), but then they quickly get freaked out to the point of acting like crazy people when they get close to someone.

At that point, their behavious, actions, emotions and all of that are no longer guided by logic and rationality but by extreme emotionality. It makes NO sense but it is a common symptom of someone under extreme emotional stress. I've heard it called "the wobble" as people waffle rapidly between "I love you I need you" and "I hate you get out of my face" mental states. It tests the patience and groundedness of ALL of us who are involved with abuse survivors on a regular basis to NOT get sucked into that craziness and crap.

With respect to relationship/intimacy anxiety, it takes survivors a LONG time to learn that their problems will not be solved by breaking up, by turning to someone else, by addictions (drugs, alcohol, sex) or by abusing/taking it out on others. My fiance's who is an abuse survivor has been through numerous relationships and 15 years of dating before he realized that hmm.. maybe the problem is in him, and not with ALL the girls (10-15+) he's been involved with. Even now he still finds serious fault with me when he's in one of his insecure, triggered or fearful states, and I have to remind him and me that I'm a damn decent person and a good partner, that I am not his abuser and that I dont deserve his crap and he should lay the (*&()*& off me and put his anger towards someone who actually deserves it. I take a risk each time I say that I know but I refuse to get sucked into that crap one more time.. I have become very depressed being with people who treated me that way on an ongoing basis because I was quick to believe that I was actually the person at fault.. only to have the person eventually leave me for being "depressed"!! Go figure! My only fault was buying into that crap and not standing up for myself.. not exactly the kind of thing I expected to sign up for when I got involved in a romantic relationship!!!

That being said, I am particularly concerned about you right now - you said you have not eaten for 2 weeks - not eating is a key sign of depression, and 2 weeks is the general guideline for doctors to diagnose clinical depression. Depression can be situational and initiated by traumatic incidents such as a breakup (I was treated for 3 years after a similar breakup.. so I can guarantee I DO know what you feel like.. its not fun). Also I am aware that, as I stated previously, sometimes one can get sucked into the trauma and drama of a survivor's life and get depressed by being around that kind of thing. Perhaps you were already stressed and depressed before you broke up, and this just exacerbated the situation.

Please take this advice seriously - depression can be a serious and life threatening situation so it is very important that you take yourself and your current not-eating situation VERY VERY VERY seriously. Please try to get to a doctor and/or a counsellor asap.

Remember - time has a way of healing broken hearts... I guarantee in 1 month you wont be feeling nearly the same amount of pain that you do now. I find that the first 3-4 weeks are the most acute and painful. Broken hearts are NOT fun.. I've had a few nasty ones myself in my 34 years on this planet. Look towards the fall, I guarantee that things wont be as bad for you as they are now. But if you are depressed its hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel.. please take your situation seriously.

I dont know if you have any spiritual interests or beliefs, but I would like to believe that God has a special interest in watching over us when we are in our most pain.. and that he does love you even when you think you've been abandoned here on Earth. And one thing I've also learned is that human love is never perfect, no matter how well intentioned or how grounded/healthy a person is. Only God's love is ever as perfect as we want it to be.. and to focus your attention there when you think there is no other hope.

Meanwhile back here on earth.. keep posting here.. there's lots of people who care and who have been in your shoes. You will get a lot of good advice and support here.


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#61341 - 08/09/04 04:31 PM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Angelina,

I am so sorry to see you this way-- I know how much of your heart you have put into trying to find some answers about your boyfriend and his situation.

Now that he has started therapy he is probably just starting to *actually* deal with and confront many things that he's been able to keep way in the back of his mind for a long time. This might be the reason for the new stress, embarrasment, fear, etc. and it is totally normal and in my opinion, good, because it means some kind of growth for him.

Think about that as you try to get yourself together here... his path and your path are not nessecarily the same or moving at the same pace. You have been here for years but he has to do it in his own way at his own time--imagine how you were when you first came here-- that must be just some of what he is feeling now. No wonder he wants some time alone to process.

Some time alone to process does not mean that he never wants to see you again. Respect his wishes, but don't expect anything he says right now to be written in stone. It is true that relationships are stressful-- stress does not always equal "bad" though. It just means that being in a relationship takes a toll on you and requires emotional energy and right now if your boyfriend wants to heal, he needs to be selfish with his emotional energy. That has nothing to do with you.

Give him his space, give him what he needs, he will remember it whether you do or you don't. Please, please, take this chance to be selfish with your own emotional energy. If you need to vent we will listen.

SAR


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#61342 - 08/09/04 08:02 PM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Angelina
possibly the only real thing left is to let him know that you will be there when he's ready. Tough I know, but a Survivor in distress is never going to be easy to get along with, especially when we're starting therapy and making some heavy decisions about our lives.

Don't feel the slightest bit guilty, you've done whatever you can and more. The important person now is YOU, please take care of yourself, be kind to yourself, get help and counselling if you feel it might help. But don't give up on yourself, you'll be no good to anyone if your in bits as well.

Thanks for caring for a fellow Survivor, one day I hope he'll thank you for it.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#61343 - 08/11/04 01:16 AM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
Anonymous
Unregistered


thanks


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#61344 - 08/11/04 06:43 AM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Angelina,

As a survivor and a partner, I can understand your desire to do these things, but I don't believe that what you are doing here will help either of you feel better about YOU.

Quote:
I thought it was going better, then I tried to kiss him on the cheek goodbye, and he said, NO. almost digusted by my simple cheek his, so I asked if I could just give a shoulder rub to say goodbye for a month and he told me I better go and started the car ignigtion before I was even done, I crying, him almost laughing at me spilling my guys out, I told him I loved him, but then he said NOTHING, took my little carepackage of things, and told him I loved him and I wanted him as the man in my life. He then told me Id better go, he has things to do.
There is nothing more dismaying and triggering to me than someone I care about wanting physical contact with me, and trying to use their feelings about me as a rationale for why I should do something that I REALLY REALLY do not want for my own body. In that moment I perceive it as a most unkind variety of manipulation way more than a genuine statement of feeling.

As a partner, there is almost nothing more dismaying and triggering than not being able to comfort and be affectionate with my boyfriend for extended periods of time when he is feeling bad. I respect him on this, but the more I focus on my own desires in this situation, the worse I feel about myself and the less I believe that nothing about ME is the cause of his lack of desire. Angelina, the last thing you need right now is any more reason to feel bad about yourself or guilty for any of this.

He is asking you for space, physically and emotionally, because he really needs that space. Do the both of you a favor, and respect his need for space. Don't be the one to break that month-long agreement. He will see that as an enormous act of trust and giving, and honestly I think you deserve a month off of this rollercoaster.

SAR


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#61345 - 08/12/04 12:48 PM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Angelina:
in any of your advise, do you think he will come back, or why does he act, SCARED around me like Im some crazy person, that tickes me off.
Its not possible to tell if he will come back or not. But SAR is right - you will absolutely positively HAVE to stick to your commitment to NOT talk to him for 1 month. That is absolutely critical for you to earn some trust back with him. YOu need that "currency" to make any possible headway, to have any hope of making this work in the future.

I make no bones about the fact that it is going to be DAMN hard. You loved him. Grief is painful. You'd do anything in the WORLD not to have to go down into that dark and painful place. But you have to go through it. It sucks, bad. It hurts like hell. You feel like you're being punched in the chest, like someone ripped out your heart and stomped all over it. I have been there, and it sucks like nothing else. And to accept that at this time that you have no choice but to go there, is also really hard. We all like to think that we are in charge of our lives, our relationships, but we are not totally ever in "charge". We are involved with another, completely separate human being who has chosen to spend time with us. We HAVE to trust the other person to also be there.. and in those times when we are not sure what he will do, its damn scary. I've been there. Letting go of trying to control everything and just "trusting" that either he'll come back or I'll be ok without him.. is SOOOO scary!!! And its extra important NOT to try to control things when with a survivor - its been the hardest thing for me as I am a total control freak - to have to learn to back down for the sake of not freaking out my partner who is deeply sensitized to being controlled due to his abuse experience (the ultimate act of control) has NOT been easy. But it has been well worth it. I've benefitted in many ways by trying to let go of that control freakiness (for now I am dealing with that excess energy by trying to help others).

With resepect to what you put into the relationship and how you wanted to support him, and how he dismissed you or was so afraid of you... I can attest to the fact that it is VERY hard to be blamed for the sins of another. That happens to me ALL the time in my relationship. You likely have done nothing to destroy his trust, to make him afraid, or to deserve his coolness, or condescending or hurtful behaviour. However, you have to understand that OTHERS destroyed his ability to trust and to feel safe.

Always rememember no matter what he has said ITS NOT your fault that he can't trust or feel safe, but it is something that you have to accept as being part of him right now. He carried that deep within him long before you ever showed up on the scene. What happened to him prevents him from trusting, and made him very scared. He is terrified and traumatized deep down inside and he has not dealt with it yet. Feelings of terror and trauma that he felt when he was raped do NOT just dissipate. They dont just go away. They sit there and fester deep in the pit of his very soul and his existence until he has a safe place and an ability to process the event and the feelings. It can take a lifetime to get through things like he's been through even with a LOT of work.

You do have to look at your own motivations even in your goodbye... please dont look at this with any kind of accusation on my part. I can completely understand your behaviour upon letting him go as I have totally done the exact same things when breaking up with other guys. But it does sound like even in your good bye you were still expecting things from him that he was not able to give. You probably wanted him to say "I love you and I'll be back" or at least "I love you" but he didn't. He just said nothing. And you tried to get a bit more from him by kissing him.. which is totally understandable. And he recoiled. And it hurt. Bad. Been there. It sucks!!!

However, I HIGHLY doubt that he didnt love you despite what he said and did. He would have NOT spent time with you if he didnt have any feelings for you. You have to understand that his rejection, his coldness, his hurtful words are NOT a reflection of you - you are NOT unloveable because of what happened. What really is going on is that he is just not CAPABLE of giving you what you want and need. And the more you push, the scarier it gets for him. And he retreats and pushes you away the only way he knows how - by being aggressive and hurtful.

Too often men and women even who are not traumatized get stuck into these pretty vicious "pursuer-distancer" dances.. and the only way to stop them is for the pursuer (usually the woman) to STOP pursuing and hope to hell that the distancer STOPS distancing and comes back. But that is always up to the distancer. And its a scary thing to STOP pursuing I can for sure admit to that!!

And as far as your coworkers.. girl, its none of their damn business what happens in your personal life! Your work reputation should not reflect what happens in your home life. Your work reputation should be based on what you do at work, how reliable you are, how well you do your job, how pleasant you are in dealing with coworkers and clients. Your relationship status, who you date, what you do when you are not at work is none of your coworkers damn business! If they feel so inclined to comment on it, you have every right to tell them to back off and keep their snoopy old selves out of your personal life. And if your friends dont support you because of what happened or how this relationship went down, then you may need to evaluate why they are your friends, and find people who ARE and CAN be more supportive and understanding and compassionate! I've dumped many a "friend" along the way when they just couldnt stick by me through my whole variety of crappy, unbelievable experiences (I've got a long history of growing up in an alcoholic, abusive home with a verbally aggressive and psychologically abusive, suicidal dad.. and have had a lifetime of pain dealing with it). I quickly found out who my REAL friends were during my really really LOW times!!!

P


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#61346 - 08/12/04 11:37 PM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
Anonymous
Unregistered


thanks so much for your comments,


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#61347 - 08/12/04 11:44 PM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
Anonymous
Unregistered


.


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#61348 - 08/13/04 07:15 AM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
FastForward Offline
Member

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 188
Loc: US
Dear Angelina,

You are not alone. We may not be there in person but we are here with you and in spirit. If I may suggest: reach ot to others you know. You can meet your needs in small doses from many sources. It is too much to expect from a single person. And the void will eventually be filled and healed. Believe me. Just hang in there. You are in therapy so that is good. The rest will come with time. Just keep talking to us. You are going through a grieving provess; it will take time dear.

Best wishes.

_________________________
FastForward

L&P - always.

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#61349 - 08/13/04 12:02 PM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Angelina:
my first real boyfriend, just didnt know how to just walk away from not only a man i love, but my best friend. he is so not just about abuse, actually, its all the cool and fun dates and stuff i remember about him, not all our bad times, but it seems that all he remembers is our bad times of intimate uncomfortable moments he states, he never once said that he cherished all the cool hikes and visits and meals and talks not regarding abuse we had, that is what hurts,

**stuff snipped

Man, i will never meet such a cool man.
This sounds like my first breakup experience.. maybe if I share my experience you will see that you are not alone???

Anyhow.. I first had my first real breakup when I was 22 (June 27, 1992 to be exact!! I still remember the day!!) I too dated my first bf for 4 years (age 18-22, he was 19-23 when we dated) we dated all through university and broke up a month before my graduation. He ended it by telephone - we were apart because he was still living in the town where i went to University and he had a job, but I didnt.. and I ran out of money and had to move home with my parents (the fact that he didnt want me to live with him SHOULD have been a big clue of what was to come eh??) I too was devastated - all that time together and he was not even going to be there for my graduation!!

I thought that we'd be together forever, that he was THE ONE and my life was SET. I had never loved anyone like that before, I had never slept with anyone else, he was THE ONE. And it ended very similarly - he wasn't a SA survivor but he grew up with alcoholic parents (his dad eventually died in an alcohol related drowning about 6 years after we broke up) and when we broke up he DID really turn on me and started to view me as a crazy woman too!!

I had a hard time letting go and am not overly proud of the way it ended... I tried to keep contacting him, I tried to beg him to come back, I even stole my mom's car and tried to drive to the town where he was living (5 hour drive) to beg him to come back any way I could.. I got caught by my parents when I called home 2 hours into the drive who threatened to call the cops and pull me off the road if I didnt come home.. so dont worry about feeling like you went "overboard".. I'm the queen of acting pretty insane when I"m hurting!! Its normal to feel so much pain..

I try not to beat myself up for the nutty way I've acted during breakups (gee I wonder why he thought i was a crazy woman hmm?? \:\) ) But as I look back on that it was a pretty big indicator of how insecure I was, how I really needed to work on MYSELF and learn to conduct my life and my actions with dignity and SELF respect.. and I really have worked on that since that time. It was also a symptom of the painful home that I had to go back to live in when we broke up - that BF was really a "shield" against the insane abusive home life that I was enduring for so long, and here I was a university graduate, no boyfriend, no life, no job having to go back home to my parents again. I looked at my ex as my "escape route" and when he left, I had to go back to that hellish existence again. It was so awful!!

So I not only had to deal with the loss of the boyfriend, but to dive into some serious adult-children-of-alcoholics issues, some psychological/verbal abuse-survivors issues, to START build up my non-existent self esteem, I really started the long road to recovery that I still find myself on, 12 years later.

For me the hardest thing I found with my breakup, besides being back into my whole family abuse scenario thing again, was the whole "shift" from being "on the inside" to being "an outsider".. I was invited to his family parties, part of his "family and friends" and then all of a sudden I lost that part of my life.. and because I shunned all that was mine (family, friends, etc. because they were all so unhealthy) I had to rebuild a new life for me totally from scratch.

Another hard part of the breakup was when he told me that he wasn't happy for "three years" (we dated for four years) but dammit he never TOLD me what was wrong.. I just sat there thinking that there WAS something wrong and he kept denying it.. and then I started to believe there was something wrong with ME because I was so confused.. getting some pretty bad treatment, much less than I deserved, which eventually drove me into accepting it (my home life experiences also helped me accept shoddy treatment) and believed that I didnt deserve any better. I wound up SEVERELY depressed which was the main reason for him leaving - that I was too "depressed" (duuh! no kidding!).

Ultimately, we never got back together. He moved to another town, did a Master's degree. I got a job in another town and started working. I saw him a few times here and there but he never even tried to make contact with me, never gave me any resolution, he pretty much avoided me like I had done something TO him!! I totally know what it feels like when all you did was try to care and he treats you like you are some kind of disease. Its bizarre. HE"s the one who dumped me so why is he acting as if I hurt him??? And the few times I contacted him all he kept saying was "we have to move on with our lives"... and all I could think of was the good times, how much I'd miss him, etc. etc!!

When it all ended I too thought I was gonna die. I fell into a deep depression too and I also was treated by a psychiatrist (AND an outpatient nurse) and was given antidepressants, etc. What was hardest for me was that I had NO life of my own to go to - I was just finished university, looking for work (and in 1992 there was scarce work for any recent graduate, there was such an economic recession on coupled with massive shifts in government - was hard to find a job ANYWHERE even with a honours university science degree).

So - in the process of getting counselling they also set me up with a job counsellor.. as a way to help me pick up the pieces of my life and get out of my hellish home. I was put on a "placement" work program for a not for profit agency and eventually worked that into a full time career for 7 years. Now I have a big time policy career that I probably wouldnt have had if I'd stayed with my ex... I make enough $$ to have a car and a house, I'm engaged to a great, wonderful man who's waaay better looking and waaay nicer and waaay more fun and creative than the first ex and am I am forever grateful with the way things eventually turned out. It has been hard, but the results so far are ok. Doesnt mean I still dont have "issues" but I'm a lot more self reliant than I ever have been.

However, the meantime between that breakup and now was not a cakewalk.. but I learned so much about myself through both the pain and the personal triumphs and was able to gain so much experence and confidence about myself (I moved around a few times, dated several others, got a graduate degree, learned a second language, travelled to Mexico and Ireland) that I doubt I would have had if I'd stayed with my first bf. My life would probably never have gotten off the ground if we'd stayed together!!!

RE: your medication - be VERY careful with any medicaiton you are given - if its a tranquilizer medication it CAN be addicting (HORRIBLE withdrawal) and it can start to mess up your moods long after the pain of the breakup would normally start to subside. My dad was given tranquilizer medication to address his anxiety when he eventually quit drinking. However, he was on this stuff for 10 years. The health effects of taking this stuff for too long, and then the horrendous withdrawal symptoms literally just about killed him. You should NOT take tranquilizer medication for any longer than 2 weeks. Please make sure you are SURE what you are taking and if it is tranquilizer medication, that you dont get hooked. Antidepressants are another story - you can stay on them for months or years, but they also have their side effects and must be managed properly. Do NOT mix them with alcohol, and if you dont feel you are doing any better then please talk to your doctor. There are all kinds of horror stories about young people taking antidepressants and getting more depressed, rather than less. Pleas also ensure that you are taking the anti-D's in COMBINATION with therapy and not as a substitute.

Back to the breakup - although things are much better now, I did take awhile to get over him... .. but that was now SO long ago that I can attest that you WILL get over it if it does end permanently. I even saw my first ex at a friend's wedding a few years back with his wife and newborn baby son and I can tell you that I had a moment of shock/terror, but after that subsided I was never so glad to be with the current guy I'm with.. SA issues and all!

If your bf (ex) doesn't come back I GUARANTEE you WILL meet someone new.. somone you might even have more in common with, who knows. Probably you'll be a bit wiser on the potential pitfalls of being in a relationship with someone who has not resolved some major personal issues (I thought LONG and hard about getting into a relationship with my current guy knowing about his SA and past alcoholism issues and believe you-me I didnt rush into ANYTHING).

I know right now you remember the good times but after awhile you will get some perspective from the situation (time and space does that to one's brain) and maybe you'll be able to see some of the not so good things - the way he talked to you in a hurtful way, his inability to form a relationship with you (a major barrier to a relationship obviously! Thats one of the absolute mandatory requirements to make something work!) and maybe you will see that this relationship at this particular time in his healing would have been difficult.

All of us partners on here can totally attest to the fact that relationships with survivors ARE difficult even when the partner is far along in their healing journey and committed to us and committed to staying together, let alone when he is so early in his healing process.

Also I dont know how old you are but one thing I know about guys.. many of them, SA or not, aren't really in the mindset or the maturity level to want to stick to a long term, committed relationship until they are in their late 20's or early 30's. Its tough because I think we women are on a "mission" ... the "oh my gawd I'm almost 30 and I'm not married and I dont have kids.. whats wrong with me" stuff.. we hit our "midlife crisis" early, and guys really sense that and its disturbing for them.

I was in that mode for years.. until 30 came and went and here I was still single!! Then it was "oh well I'm still young and fertile and what was the big fat deal anyhow??" At 34 I'm still single (but am "attached" and am getting married in 6 weeks!!) and have had miserable luck with a few guys (have had a few breakups of which we are speaking). I just found, that most guys I met in my 20's were interested in a good time rather than a girlfriend. And those few that were interested in a long term committed, girlfriend relationship just didnt have the maturity level to match with me. It was tough. I also had some major issues of my own to work through related to my own abuse history.. which made dating hard to begin with, and I chose some pretty unsavory characters to be involved with for awhile. And I got my heart broken AGAIN a few times in the process. But looking back I really needed that time to get my own head around being the best person I could be to be in the relationship that I am in now with all its challenges.

Relationships are NOT easy.. you have to give so much.. not only to yourself but to another person, and it takes so much energy. It can be hard at the best of times let alone when you are handling major life-shattering issues such as dealing with the aftermath of sexual trauma.

So, remember, timing is EVERYTHING.. also in relationships one can waste a lot of energy trying to control a relationship.. and they are just NOT controllable. I learned the hard way through a few long term relationships to take as much of a "hands off" approach as possible.. to take care of ME and allow the guy to come to ME instead of me always trying to chase him.. I dont think many guys like to be chased, I really think they still get all happy with the "thrill of the chase" even when they are all (or almost) old married guys!! Its much less stress on us to always feel we have to make the "relationship work" .. it takes up too much damn energy!! And in some ways we can setup our guys for underfunctioning in the relationship and start to feel all burned out and tired if we constantly feel we have to do so much to "keep it together". The best relationships are those where both partners are contributing, both partners are obviously committed, and isnt that what you really want? For the guy to come around? To KNOW that he really wants to be with you without you feeling like you had to egg an "I love you" out of him??? I know that I feel a lot more confident and secure in my current relationsnhip.. I have many times taken a "hands off' approach and waited to see if he'd come back.. and he always does.. even with the fights, even with the SA distancing/intimacy issues.. he's always there.

Good to see you are going to counselling.. I am sure that you will start to fill your time and space with things that are of interest to you, that make you happy OTHER than a relationship. Even in a relationship its important to have a slice of your time that is truly YOUR OWN. It is hard though... I too dont feel quite right when I'm totally unattached.. but around age 30 I did learn to finally embrace it. And it was when, for the first time, I finally was having fun being totally free and unattached was when I met my current bf/fiance!

And the rest, they say, is history!

P


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#61350 - 08/13/04 05:08 PM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
FastForward Offline
Member

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 188
Loc: US
Hi!

It is amazing how different things look once you start taking care of yourself and realize your strength. Your friend sounds like someone who cannot accept good things in his life. He also sounds like someone who wants to end things before they end anyway, as they always must. I am not sure you can do anything about that. It couls be a pattern repeated and convistion self-reinforced.

You can focus on healing your wounds and bruises though. One great thing about life is that we never know what waits around the corner. Take care and be ready for good things to happen!

Best wishes.

_________________________
FastForward

L&P - always.

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#61351 - 08/13/04 08:00 PM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Angelina
Quote:
why is he ruining all our good moments and trying to make me out to be a fool, all i ever did was love him.
I did just this for about 25 years of my 30 year marriage.
Why? because I had no self esteem at all, the abuse made me feel like the lowest form of pond life, I expected life to be mean to me, and I did my best to make sure it was.
It sounds crazy, but it's what I did - and many other Survivors with me.
I would sabotage something we were doing and turn everything around to 'make' it my wifes fault that we were having a crap time or arguing. All I was doing was carrying on in victim mode, and I didn't know any different. It didn't matter that my wife showed all the love towards me she had, and more.
I loved her, but I didn't love myself. That came slowly with my decision to change my life.
If your young man makes that decision, and he is the ONLY person who can make it, he may well turn to you once again, I hope he does. But it will probably be in his own time, on his terms, and with a ton of baggage.
We aren't easy people Angelina, but our good sides can, and do, outweigh the bad.

Respect his space is all I can advise as well.

Dave
PS. Don't give a damn about what your co-workers think, and if your 'friends' give you hard time - move on.
True friends stand by and support each other, they might not agree with what you do, and a true friend will tell you that. But they also stick around and pick us up when we do get it wrong.

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#61352 - 08/15/04 02:34 PM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
FastForward Offline
Member

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 188
Loc: US
Dave - YOU ROCK! What made you change? Where is your self-esteem now, if I may be so bold as to ask?

Angelina - In this world, patience is not just a virtue but a necessity. Focus on you! You can make it through it but even if he came back now, it would still mean a rough ride. One way or another, it helps tremendously that you know where you are in your life. Then you will know how to assess his comments. The other opinions are not critical, especially when not true.

_________________________
FastForward

L&P - always.

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#61353 - 08/15/04 08:03 PM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
FastForward
"What made me change"

Well....
Boy, this is the hard question :rolleyes:
In 1999 I was 47 yo, married for 25 years to a woman I knew I loved but had drifted so far away from I couldn't see my way back.
I was sex addicted, masturbating about 4 or 5 times a day, and had started having sex with strangers in toilets. After which I was suicidal.
We 'made love' so rarely that at one point we went over 12 months without, I rarely kissed or hugged my wife, hell - we rarely spoke.
My mind was constantly full of 'sex' - and I mean that, every moment when I wasn't thinking about something important, like eating or doing something at work, I was thinking about sex, planning my next acting out episode or creating new fantasies.
( and when you consider that about 95% of my fantasies, and acting out experiences involved me giving bj's, you can appreciate how much effort I put into this ! )
I had NO self-esteem or self-worth at all ( the other 5% were fantasies of degradation )

Then a couple of seemingly unconnected things happened.

A director where I work ( for an international utility company ) trusted me. She asked me to do something on a project with her. And I'm just a mechanical maintainence guy, so this was exceptional in any circumstance. But for me it was monumental.
We completed the project, and I began to realise that my knowledge was no better or worse that hers, just different. My brain did work.
And here was someone who could excercise power and authority over me, respecting my views and knowledge, and most importantly asking little in return - and NOT shafting me in the process.
All my life until then I had rebelled against all authority, I've been fired from jobs for striking managers before now.
I had taken my abuse and turned it upon myself, and created an un-trusting person. I didn't even trust my wife, it took me 25 years to tell her I was an abuse victim!
Someone trusted me, that was a whole new experience.

From that I must have scraped a bit of self-esteem together, but on it's own it wasn't quite enough.
Then the singer George Michael got caught "committing a lewd act" in Hollywood, and shortly after a UK politician George Davies suffered the same fate.
Both were famous, and the media frenzy was huge. Eventually to stop the circus they both appeared ( at different times ) on the Michael Parkinson TV chat show.
I was stunned, absolutely slack jaw stunned.
These two men addmitted on TV what they had done, explained a bit about their pasts and the possible reasons why they sought sex with other men in public toilets, and then said the were getting help.

"HELP...."

"You mean there's help for this shit?"

By this time I was taking huge risks, which was part of the rush for me. And it was looking increasingly likely I was going to be caught. But I wasn't famous or wealthy, I would most likely lose EVERYTHING.

I then saw an advert in out local paper for Axis Counselling, and they dealt with "Abuse Survivors"
I wasn't sure if that included me, but I cut it out anyway and kept it in my wallet for weeks.
Then one night, half way through dinner - and days before our 25th wedding anniversary, I blurted it out to my wife "I think I have a problem, I need help"
The dinner went cold.

Those two things were the turning point for me, someone trusting me and discovering that help was possible ( and that I wasn't the only person in the world that needed help !)
By that time I had few options left, carrying on would have probably led to me being caught, and at best losing everything, at worst suicide.
I went to Axis ( and I now work for them ) and got the help I needed.

Where is my self-esteem now? where it should be, where it was MEANT to be. With me and NOT in the ruins of my abusers lives.
I have my faults, but hey, who doesn't. But I 'know' "David" now, I know what he can do ( and sometimes I overestimate that greatly! \:o ) so most of it has been reclaimed, and that's a huge change for me.

I was changed by a small scrap of self-esteem and a tiny bit of knowledge.

Dave
\:\)

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#61354 - 08/16/04 04:47 PM Re: forget it-im just a pest anyways
FastForward Offline
Member

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 188
Loc: US
Dave,

THANK YOU! I am do glad for you. This is huge. I pray that someone I know will get there as well.

Best wishes and GREAT JOB!

_________________________
FastForward

L&P - always.

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