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#60612 - 07/12/04 12:48 PM Re: NEW! NEED HELP DESPERATELY
Archnut Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 343
Loc: United Kingdom
I have no answers only experiences.

Thats why I dont give advice as I'm usually wrong!


Archnut
"And all that was left was hope"

My Story (Triggers)
http://www.waltonhop.blogspot.com


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#60613 - 07/12/04 01:29 PM Re: NEW! NEED HELP DESPERATELY
MikeNY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 927
Loc: NY
PAS, the one thing that you quoted from me, I quoted from jaywho, not Harmony. Just to be clear on that. What you said follows fine for Harmony.

_________________________
"Every child asks the questions which hold the answers to the secrets of the universe, WHAT?, and WHY?". --Me

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#60614 - 07/12/04 04:10 PM Re: NEW! NEED HELP DESPERATELY
darp123 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/25/03
Posts: 15
Loc: Maryland
Harmony,

I am trying to piece together what your first post was because it was deleted. What I understand is that you are having an affair with an SA survivor and you want to help him.

I found out 18 months ago that my h of 16 yrs. was having an affair with a coworker(also had been SA) who was my H's best friend and an aquaintance of mine. I also found out the same night that my H had been SA by his brother when he was 7 yrs. old. I can't even explain the devestation and hurt that I felt on that night.

The coworker probably thought she was helping him too but they crossed the line of being friends and started an emotional affair that turned into a physical affair. Not only is my H dealing with his sexual abuse issues but he has had to deal with what he did to me and our family.

He thought that I didn't love him or care but he found out the night he told me everything that wasn't true. I have been there to help him through the flashbacks, nightmares, self-esteem issues and helped him find a therapist that works with male survivors.

One of the things my H told me several months after I found out about the a and SA was that when they slept together he felt like he was being abused again. We had stopped having sex during that time but I didn't know why.

Please take a hard look at what you are doing and the lives you are hurting. This has been the most devestating thing that has ever happened to me.

Sometime go to Survivinginfidelity.com to the "just found out" forum and read about the devestation that these betrayed spouse go through. Maybe if you read about real people and the horrible pain they go through, you will stop having an affair with a married man and see that you are not helping but hurting him and his family.

darp


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#60615 - 07/12/04 08:29 PM Re: NEW! NEED HELP DESPERATELY
MikeNY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 927
Loc: NY
Now that we got a lot of the ugliness out of the way, I will post a few things for thought. Since we do not know much about the survivors real situation, this is all nothing but speculation.

Is it possible that the survivor truly is in love with Harmony? Yes. Many survivors end up in bad relationships and bad marriages because they are drawn toward things that are bad for them or resemble their abuse because of what was programmed into them. Their abusers called what they did love. 80% of the time survivors were abused by people whom they knew, trusted, respected, and even loved. This programs them just like Pavlov's dogs were classically programmed and just like Skinner's (I think) operantly programmed pigeons. Their feelings become intertwined and overlap. Some even become reversed. Fear and love, sex and love, pain and love, pain and fear, trust and pain, trust and fear, sex and pain, and all kinds of other things become intertwined. This also causes the confusion which lead to the dissociation splits which occur in the mind. This causes the separations of the mind from the body and feelings. This causes all of the side effects. This causes survivors to be drawn toward bad relationships and away from good ones. This literally causes them to have strong feelings for people who are bad for them and to not have feelings toward anyone who is good for them, or fear reactions to them. It causes survivors to run away from anything that is good for them. It causes survivors to be afraid of things that are good for them. It causes the fulfillment of self-defeating prophecy. It causes isolation. It causes hyper-social activity. It causes all kinds of things. It causes us to question just how much we can even trust our own instincts and feelings, with good reason, because many times we can't. Not until we purge that programming from ourselves, with or without help from others. Could he actually be in a marriage that was brought about as a reaction to his abuse? Yes. Could he now be slowly coming away from that? Yes. He could be acting like a turtle sticking his head out of the shell to look around and then retreating back. This still gives neither one of them the right to treat his wife the way that they are. We have none of the information necessary to be able to actually try to help with any of it. Harmony, the ONLY things that you can do is get out of this relationship and direct him toward help.

_________________________
"Every child asks the questions which hold the answers to the secrets of the universe, WHAT?, and WHY?". --Me

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#60616 - 07/12/04 10:16 PM Re: NEW! NEED HELP DESPERATELY
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5779
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
My guess is that Harmony has left this site. She pmed me about the rough treatment she got here and made some justifications about the affair. She also asked me for advice on dealing with his avoidance of her. I sent her a pm yesterday explaining that the issue of betrayal is very strong for survivors and I believed some of the reason she got so much flak about the affair is because survivors identified with the betrayal aspects of the relationship.

(I thought it was a good explanation of what may have been taking place and in no way did I attack or criticize her-- though there is plenty of reason for that.)

So far, it is unread by recipient.

Oh, well.
Ken


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#60617 - 07/12/04 10:35 PM Re: NEW! NEED HELP DESPERATELY
MikeNY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 927
Loc: NY
Ken, I would greatly appreciate your input on my post above yours.
Thank you.

_________________________
"Every child asks the questions which hold the answers to the secrets of the universe, WHAT?, and WHY?". --Me

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#60618 - 07/12/04 10:58 PM Re: NEW! NEED HELP DESPERATELY
James_dup1 Offline


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
I know for me part of th reason I gave her hell over it was because she "made some justifications about the affair" why many times do we read things here or have lived it ourselves. Where the monster's who abused us made some justifications about the abuse. There's been a lot of post on the board over the years talking about abuse being abuse no matter how "pretty" you wrap it up and what color bow you tie on it. She was not willing to take responablity for her actions. Sad really, her actions are just like the perps we fight so hard to live through. \:\(

James

_________________________
I have more issues than Rolling Stone!


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#60619 - 07/13/04 03:28 AM Re: NEW! NEED HELP DESPERATELY
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Hey everyone,

It is clear that some people did identify with, and react strongly to, whatever Harmony had to say--not me, because she edited away those posts before I was able to read them. I can't say how I'd have been affected. Like many of us--Survivors and Friends/Family alike-- I deal with betrayal/trust issues. Especially in this forum where we work so hard to build and rebuild trusting, committed, loving relationships.

However--there are several new posts here, not deleted, written by people who'd like help with just that sort of relationship, and I am going to try to help some of those people now.

SAR


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#60620 - 07/13/04 11:31 AM Re: NEW! NEED HELP DESPERATELY
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by SAR:
It is clear that some people did identify with, and react strongly to, whatever Harmony had to say
The fact that this was posted on the F&F thread which is frequented by many hurt and betrayed spouses definitely had a lot to do with the strong reactions. I cant say that I'd be too able to be compassionate towards any "other woman" I myself had suffered the pain of my spouse acting out and cheating with someone else. Indeed betrayal is a hot button for all of us, unfortunately.

P


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#60621 - 07/13/04 11:46 AM Re: NEW! NEED HELP DESPERATELY
kolisha54 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 475
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Yup. Been there myself. My ex-husband wasn't an SA survivor, but his Dad had been poisoned by his own brother. I'm sure this contributed to my ex's "acting out," but ya know what? I DO NOT CARE! The fact remains, when you take a vow - it has to mean something sacred.

On the other hand - I do not think we need to act rude and aggressive when we, as a community, show our anger and displeasure.

_________________________
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now... when? --Hillel

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