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#59801 - 01/21/06 02:07 PM Re: questions about sexual difficulties (TRIGGERS)
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Dave, SAR, Trish,

What a great thread. It is making me do a lot of rethinking about things that I see I have been hesitant to face, Adonis that I am.

It is difficult for me to answer your question Dave, because both my emergence from denial and the slide in my interest in sex came on slowly and were both well advanced by the time I recognized what was going on. It was all to easy to make up excuses like "I am so tired and have been working too hard", etc. Also, my wife had just bought a restaurant in Oxford and was herself working very hard. There were days she would come home after we were all in bed and would be gone the next day before we got up. Then it got complicated again when I took my job in Germany and our initial plans for the family to follow me there did not work out.

Looking back, I have to admit that sex was something that was always problematic for me. I did not have difficulties initiating it, but was always alert for signs or hints that something was not right. I think I would have to say that as soon as I began to realize that I really had been sexually abused, and for years and in sadistic ways, that was pretty much the collapse of me as a sexual person. It's an area that I am nowhere close to reaching in therapy, so that has been no help yet.

SAR, you commented:

Quote:
I don't want to attack any of the guys who have posted to this thread-- but I wonder if the communication issue is as simple as "no one brought it up.
That's an important point, and I don't think these issues are ever a simple matter of "it just didn't come up". I think in every relationship, especially where sex is concerned, there is a constant process of tacit signalling and negotiation going on.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#59802 - 01/24/06 03:22 AM Re: questions about sexual difficulties (TRIGGERS)
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Ahhhh, 2 Adonis's on the board - who-da-thunk-it *lol*

You guys provide a lot of insight into the way some survivors think, unfortunately, neither one of you fits my b/f's profile. He's damn near a sexaholic, maybe he really is one, I don't know.

I actually believe that the way you describe yourselves is exactly the way he was during his early 20's and for the 11 years that he was married. His marriage was not a good one and sex was something to be endured, by her, only a couple of times a year. His desires were certainly there, but he couldn't or wouldn't act on them. He was a masturbating fool. When he got divorced, all hell broke loose and he became the equivalent of a male whore - whenever, wherever, however and whoever. He, however, was never the instigator.

He hung out in some very unsavory places and was always the nicest, most caring guy in the place. He also was and is a great protector. The women loved him. Unfortunately, they were all women who were themselves damaged in one way or another. He related very closely to that, although he never told them about himself.

After I found out he'd been cheating on me, he actually told me that the women he was with had this problem, or that problem; they'd been molested or raped, etc., etc. Did I feel better? Hell NO. He seemed to see it as his mission to "teach" these women that sex could be good and healthy. As you can imagine, I didn't have the same sympathies for them that he did, not in the context in which I learned about them. He thinks he can heal everyone except himself. Quite honestly, that pisses me off! I sure as hell am not about to sit back while he gets his rocks off and makes other people feel better and makes me feel like crap.

I think we're past that, but I've no doubt he still thinks about it. Not only for the excitement and the sex, but I truly believe he got satisfaction in making someone else's life better. He didn't have to make my life better because it was already good, I simply fell in love with him and want him in my world. He doesn't know how to cope with that.

In a weird twist to SAR's original question of how my partner has made me feel, I almost feel like if I were a woman who had problems for him to fix, it might be better for him, maybe he would relate to me better. I'm not that woman, so he felt the need to act out, so maybe some of it is my fault. I donít really accept that because I know itís not rational, but I never knew I even thought it until I wrote it.

ROCK ON.......Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#59803 - 01/24/06 04:23 AM Re: questions about sexual difficulties (TRIGGERS)
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Trish,

Be glad you are not that woman. It was my experience that the people my boyfriend felt compelled to act out with were only reinforcing a negative message about himself, that what others cared about was using him to meet their needs.

He was relating to them in a way that gave him a feeling of control over the situation of being used that he was compelled to re-create in the acting out.

None of the people he exchanged emails or chatted with knew much about him at all-- some of them only knew lies about him. When I asked him how it was possible that he could have emailed with someone for months and never answered personal questions about himself, he said that the subject never came up-- that their conversations were all about about her life and her problems, that's all she wanted from him anyway.

Of course when he was presented with a real relationship, with loving give-and-take, he freaked out and felt compelled to seek out the type of interaction that was "normal" to him.


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#59804 - 01/24/06 06:23 PM Re: questions about sexual difficulties (TRIGGERS)
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
SAR,

OK, so I started pulling out phrases from your post when I realized that would be insane because the whole thing is quotable and entirely relatable.

I am glad I'm not that woman. I'd rather be me any day of the week. Because of his past history and things he's told me, I recognize this type of woman when I see her and if we're out together when she presents herself, my guard goes up instantly. It's funny because my b/f sees immediately that my hackles are up. He hugs me, and I laugh, but I stay on guard until I feel the danger has past or better yet, left the building.

I think my b/f is learning to deal with and hopefully accept a loving, give and take relationship, but he does struggle. I know he wants it because when he sees it in others, he recognizes it and is envious of it; not in a bad way, just as something he would like to have. What's really crazy is that he really does have it, he just can't see it in himself or as it relates to his world. He has a huge blind spot that I wish I could erase.

Such interesting dynamics we deal with.

ROCK ON.....Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#59805 - 02/07/06 06:32 AM Re: questions about sexual difficulties (TRIGGERS)
morganna Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 2
Loc: denver, Colorado, usa
Hi All,
I'm new here, and feel compelled to respond to this thread about sexual difficulties... My partner ("Rob") and I have been together for 3 and a half years. He told me about his CSA off the bat (the awareness of which he had repressed until about a year prior!!), but as we both were adol. counselors, I think we overestimated our ability to handle the issue.

Since about month three of our relationship, our sexual difficulties seem to have been both the origin and destination of the CSA struggle in our relationship... First came the hypersexuality, which served only to dampen my desire, then the pornography, which really did a number on my self-image. I feel like I have, on one hand, been objectified as a means to satisfy Rob's need to escape into sexual oblivion (as opposed to sharing intimate passion); on the other hand, we are best friends and creative partners. Pornography, however, is an element in the relationship that I cannot tolerate. Rob and I are in agreement about this - he fully understands how painful it is for me to regard such images, and he is angered by how he feels manipulated and seduced by them...

Long story short: Rob briefly went to a therapist after I was prepared to leave, sexually spent from constantly being hounded, and feeling rejected and betrayed by discovering his relationship to pornography. He eventually felt that his therapist was trying to seduce him and he quit. Now, three years later, porn is back (was it ever gone?), I'm still being told by him that it is basically, my problem that I'm not willing to have sex on demand, and he is denying looking at porn despite obvious indications to the contrary. I am so sad to think about how CSA is capable of decomposing loving relationships years after it "happens." Thank you all for allowing me to vent on this...
I'm glad I found this site a couple of hours ago!

_________________________
morganna

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#59806 - 02/07/06 05:01 PM Re: questions about sexual difficulties (TRIGGERS)
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
morganna,

My take on this is that Rob is having difficulty seeing sex in terms other than those he got when he was an abused boy. If a young boy knows anything at all about sex yet, he still usually has no real knowledge or appreciation about it as anything more than an scary topic of intense curiosity. Then when he is abused he gets the idea that it is all about "doing it" to someone regardless of whether they want or enjoy what is happening (as you say, objectifying them). I guess porn would be the same way - it fits his old childhood image of what sex is all about: I get physical satisfaction, what anyone else gets is beside the point.

From other threads here you may have seen that people here (including me) will tell you that you have every right to stand by your boundaries and take care of yourself. His abuse issues can't trump your own needs and feelings all the time; some common ground acceptable to both partners needs to be found.

I especially wanted to comment on this:

Quote:
I'm still being told by him that it is basically, my problem that I'm not willing to have sex on demand
You don't owe him on sex on demand. No one owes anyone that.

I hope you two find a way forward, but remember that there has to be accommodation on both sides, not just yours.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#59807 - 02/08/06 02:45 AM Re: questions about sexual difficulties (TRIGGERS)
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Morganna,

Porn is a weird thing. "Normal" guys who haven't been abused look at porn - some do it alot, some just occasionally. If that weren't the case, it wouldn't be all over the internet and the strip clubs would be out of business. If you don't like it or are uncomfortable with it then that's something that has to be worked out between you and Rob and he has to respect your feelings. But at the same time, is it really that awful if he wants to look at another naked woman sometimes?

This is something that me, myself and I fight over all the time. Porn doesn't really bother me unless it's like an addiction to the person looking at it. I'll be the first to admit that I've looked at some porn every now and then. It doesn't do much for me but I also don't believe that woman are anywhere near as visually stimulated as men. I'm not discounting your feelings, just giving another perspective.

My b/f enjoys his porn, much less now than before {I hope} because I told him things were out of control. The porn he was looking at went way beyond anything I was anywhere near comfortable with, but he still looks. Is it "normal?" Within limits, I believe it is. But as I said above, men seem to be much more visually stimulated than woman. Just another of the differences between boys and girls, no matter what their age.

Maybe some of it is a symptom of the csa, and maybe I'm just denying it at the moment; I don't know.

All that being said, if you have a problem with it, then Rob really does need to respect your feelings. You can't be made to feel as if you're just the outlet for his sexual appetite that was brought on by looking at porn. As Larry said, no one has a right to sex on demand when one partner wants anything but.

Finally, welcome Morganna. This is a very healthy place to help us all through.

ROCK ON.......Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#59808 - 02/08/06 09:13 PM Re: questions about sexual difficulties (TRIGGERS)
TRACYUK Offline
Member

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 178
Hi all

I'll try and answer youre original question Sar coz I've come late to this.

Def yes he acted like there was something not entirely right about my requests in sex. For him it was/still can be a pattern: feel aroused, have sex as quickly as possible getting it over with ASAP, get up and get washed straight away ( he felt fearful then dirty, sound familiar?). Not hugely satisfying for me as you can imagine.

I wanted forplay and when I eventually insisted on at least kissing and cuddling first he said he'd rather not have sex at all.A big own goal that was.. I can just about laugh now.

The only way he could cope with anything other than his routine was to zone out, at which I then always had this sneaking feeling I'd been alone or used even.... It was like he was so unconnected to me I could have been anyone and was just means to an end...As he was so not like that at other times I did accept it and questioned myself a lot.

Of late we have been communicating and connecting really well and have on quite a few occassions "made love". A completely fifferent experience for both of us. Getting aroused through love and feeling emotionally connected. Often he finds his fear is much less when this hapens.

Incidently we are seeing a psychosexual therapist soon and we'l be sharing this with him.. I'm happy to report back if you like.

In terms of the acting out. he hasn't done it since he disclosed and I actually feel confident that he won't again. The problem we have is in him fully being able to accept how much it hurt me to find out about his secret sex with men and the deceipt, lies etc...

He is slowly but surely getting in touch with his feelings and his feelings of sorrow for me get mixed up massivly with anger at the fact that he was abused in the first place (not anger at me but his anger distrcats from really feeling sorry if that makes sense)he is sorry on a rational level but is finding his feet in terms of FEELING sorry. He now totally relates his acting out to having been abused and neglected as a child and is coming to terms with his own role in it, ie; his personal power and or lack of it/ regaining of it.

I hope this has been usfeul and made some sort of sense.
Love

T


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#59809 - 02/09/06 06:21 AM Re: questions about sexual difficulties (TRIGGERS)
morganna Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 2
Loc: denver, Colorado, usa
Hi Trish,
thanks for your insights. Yes, porn is really weird. Both Rob and I have talked alot about it since getting together, and I think the important thing to remember is how I said that Rob himself is in agreement with me about how it reinforces an unrealistic and oversexualized image of women. (We find this corroborrated in recent studies being done in the context of men who look at porn and their perception of women). Rob was exposed to porn repeatedly as a young child, and expresses feeling traumatized despite the occasional compulsion to view it - not surprisingly, in times of compromised self esteem. (trigger). Then the feelings of disgust that follow...

I believe everyone must figure this porn issue out for themselves, but I also suspect that in the years to come, it will be less likely to be dismissed as a "boys will be boys" activity. (I'm not saying you are doing this!). Although many men view porn regularly, many men have also been sexually abused... maybe there's some degree of correlation..

...As far as the "visual" tendencies of male arousal: pavlov proved the power of reinforcement: we expect men to look at porn. (Oddly enough, women, it seems, are conditioned to constantly prime ourselves to be the object of male viewing pleasure via the fashion and celebrity magazines that are inescable - witness, the checkout stands!)

Peace,
Morganna

_________________________
morganna

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#59810 - 02/09/06 03:15 PM Re: questions about sexual difficulties (TRIGGERS)
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I think yes, most guys will have seen a lot of porn by the time they settle down with one partner. I know in my childhood ALL the boys went wild over it - because it was so naughty and forbidden. I suppose many men continue to enjoy looking at it.

I wonder if men and women look at this differently. When I see porn I see a fantasy world that vaguely amuses me. I don't look in ANY way like the guys in the pics (none of them have mandolins), and the women, well.... I think this stuff aims for the raging hormones of teenagers and young men mostly.

When I hear women talking about guys looking at porn however, it seems to me they think this is what the guy personally wants from women, or from their partner, or misses in their relationship.

I don't think that's true. But maybe that's just grumpy me at age 56. ;\)

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
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