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#59115 - 04/19/04 02:00 PM "I trust you" = trigger ?????
Caetel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 322
Loc: Paris, France
I have noticed that V. reacts quite violently every time I tell him I trust him.
I know that this is kind of strong because I am a survivor myself so trust issue is something important and he knows I am sincere.
Can anyone explain why he reacts so violently against me when I say that ? Does it mean he thinks I want him to do the same with me ? Is he afraid of that responsability ? What's going on here ???
Thank you for your help. ;\)
Caro

_________________________
Mitakuye oyasin ! We are all related !

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#59116 - 04/19/04 02:24 PM Re: "I trust you" = trigger ?????
swartzhund Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 61
Loc: Michigan
Seems to me he is holding all the guilt and not feeling as though he is deserving of your trust no matter what you say. I have felt this way many times. I have been very pissed off at others getting too close to me because I am not worth it and they don't know what they're getting into and I can't bare the thought of how much it will hurt them in the end...all a part of the isolation process. This is just my opinion.

Wishing you better days Caro!

_________________________
Brian

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#59117 - 04/19/04 02:24 PM Re: "I trust you" = trigger ?????
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
Caro,

For me, the WORDS, "I trust you," aren't a trigger, but the whole issue of trust is.

I think, and really, it's only my opinion and my experiences, that we survivors have been hurt by the two things that we give freely, our love and trust. I know for me that I should've been able to trust my father, and he repaid me throughout my childhood and adulthood, up until recently, by emotionally abusing me for reasons I'll never accept or understand. I'm pretty sure he also hated me on some level, and he should've been one of the two people who loved me the most.

Same thing for my abuser. He convinced me he loved me and, well, I was told to TRUST him, that he wanted to HELP me. Well, he helped convince me that trust and love were dirty words.

And they also made it VERY difficult (read impossible!) to trust myself. My Dad always called me a loser and worthless. I couldn't trust my own judgment because I was, in his feelings and actions, a f**kup. Thanks to society's views on being a male survivor of sexual abuse and rape, I can no longer trust myself, either, because since most abusers were abused themselves, almost EVERYONE thinks I'll abuse and rape too.

So, how can anybody trust me when I can't even trust myself?

Maybe V feels the same way about himself. "Don't trust me! I'll only hurt you!" Irrational? Yes, indeed, especially considering he's working in psychology/psychiatry now, but it may be what he's been taught. It may be what HE believes about HIMSELF.

This is what I think. Then again, it's a rough day for me.

Peace and love, Caro,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#59118 - 04/19/04 02:58 PM Re: "I trust you" = trigger ?????
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Caro

Maybe V's just not used to "getting anything for free." He probably does think that you say "I trust you" because you're looking for something in return--information, or his trust?

Mutual love and mutual trust go both ways, yes. But many survivors don't get the chance to learn that you don't have to love everyone who loves you, or trust everyone who trusts you. For my boyfriend, love and trust are major sources of guilt because if someone said that they loved him or trusted him as a child, even if that person didn't act that way, it meant that he was obligated to act as if he loved and trusted them. Even if V. thinks that your trust is genuine, he may still feel (and be angry about feeling) a sense of obligation to you because you've trusted him.

I can't tell you how many times I've said "I love you" or "I trust you" to my boyfriend and he's responded with "What do you want me to do?" (It's better now, now he just says, "And?...")

SAR


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#59119 - 04/19/04 04:37 PM Re: "I trust you" = trigger ?????
theo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 1117
sar,
valid point. i have struggled with the trust and love issues but don't recall making the connection you stated about the obligation we were forced to assume with that "gift" of love or trust. i know i felt obligated before, yes, still do, but i did not consider the specific application you stated involving the issue of trust and love.

the "obligation" we were forced to accept to receive and maintain that twisted gift of our abusers definitely left a major impact on our ability to accept the truth of legitimate trust and love. i struggle so much with accepting the simple, but magnificent love lady theo has for me, not because i doubt her, but because i don't know how to accept it for what it truly is. where is the other shoe going to drop? am i doing enough to "earn" this gift of love and trust from her? what about when i fail, like i did last summer? i don't consider myself worthy because i never feel like i have done enough to earn that love and trust. the hardest thing for a survivor to accept is that love and trust are truly offered with no strings attached, other than being one's self...the good and the bad. how can i be lovable when i fail as a husband? how can i be worthy when i am so scared some times to reach out to the very one who has proven time and again that she will stay by my side? the struggle is to be able to accept that we are worthy of love for our sake alone, without a price tag. it is almost impossible to accomplish, but it does happen. the only question is when?

_________________________
journey well,
theo dewolfe

- It is gift, and gift will find its way
- I inherit through my choice. I build through my affirmation. It is through my freedom that I nurture, or fade into autonomy
- I was not given to serve life, but to embrace it

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#59120 - 04/21/04 06:56 PM Re: "I trust you" = trigger ?????
Caetel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 322
Loc: Paris, France
Thank you all really. I think you are very right on two things :

- the idea V. has about being worthless and undeserving of love
- This whole idea of being manipulated. If I give him something it's because I want something from him in return.
I mean we had a whole argument around a Christmas present (on Christmas day) when he accused me of trying to get him into sex/relationship.

Yes I got too close and he was not ready. Got burnt what shall I do now ? I have been screaming to him that a Christmas present is for free because it is Christmas but screaming was not a good idea. V is so good in driving me into insane arguments !!!! I believe also that trust issue is tied up with his mother being the abuser. If he gets confused and mix me up with her, there is nothing rational I can do to stop that.
I feel so stuck, so powerless. I miss him.
\:\(

_________________________
Mitakuye oyasin ! We are all related !

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#59121 - 04/21/04 07:43 PM Re: "I trust you" = trigger ?????
MikeNY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 927
Loc: NY
Quote:
there is nothing rational I can do to stop that.
A broad comparison that I can give you is that some of this can be compared to things like arachnaphobia (fear of spiders), there is not necessarily any "rational" explanation to be found. It takes time, effort, and hard work to get over those fears. Slowly introducing the person with a fake spider from across the room and gradually getting them to get closer to it, then eventually putting them in the same room with a real one, and gradually getting them to get closer to it.

_________________________
"Every child asks the questions which hold the answers to the secrets of the universe, WHAT?, and WHY?". --Me

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#59122 - 04/21/04 08:02 PM Re: "I trust you" = trigger ?????
kolisha54 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 475
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
I am laughing myself silly thinking about N's reaction when I send him a Fake Spider!!!


Ha Ha HA!!! LOL!!!

This is a very adorable way to give us advice that we partners badly need to hear.

Thanks!

_________________________
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now... when? --Hillel

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#59123 - 04/21/04 08:06 PM Re: "I trust you" = trigger ?????
MikeNY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 927
Loc: NY
See, I can give advice in ways that it makes sense to people.
\:D

_________________________
"Every child asks the questions which hold the answers to the secrets of the universe, WHAT?, and WHY?". --Me

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#59124 - 04/21/04 09:26 PM Re: "I trust you" = trigger ?????
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Mike, if I can riff off your metaphor--
Quote:
Slowly introducing the person with a fake spider from across the room and gradually getting them to get closer to it, then eventually putting them in the same room with a real one, and gradually getting them to get closer to it.
Anyone here ever had a well-meaning friend try to "cure" them of a phobia like this by up in their face with the thing they're afraid of? It has the exact opposite effect. Not only is that person still afraid of whatever they were afraid of before, but now they think that you don't see them as rational and that their fears are meaningless and silly to you. The fear is very real to the otherwise rational person who has it.

SAR


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#59125 - 04/21/04 09:36 PM Re: "I trust you" = trigger ?????
MikeNY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 927
Loc: NY
"Flooding" techniques usually are not the best ones to use.
lol

YES, for all intense purposes, the fears ARE real.

_________________________
"Every child asks the questions which hold the answers to the secrets of the universe, WHAT?, and WHY?". --Me

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