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#58894 - 11/19/05 01:30 AM Very Confused and Sad!
jayssa Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 6
As my fiance and were having an argument last night, out of no where I asked him "Are you gay"/ He began to cry and cry. He said I don't know and told me his story.
As a 5 year old he was raped my an adult cousin several times and again by and uncle at age 8. He never told anyone. Then at age 14 he found himself in a situation were he had sex with a male friend on a few occassion and again with another person a year or so later.
He says he got no pleasure out of it and has no sexual attraction toward men. He said he did this because he wanted to be the one doing that to someone else instead of this being done to him. He said while these acts took place he felt so much anger.
He says that it has been two years since the last time and does not want to do this every again. He was also terribly abused and abandoned by his mother. She showed him no love and beat him into unconsciousness until he was a young teen.
I explained to him that maybe why he did this in his teen years was to take back the control or power that was taken from him when he was abused as a child.
He wants to be with a woman and our sex life is very healthy.

My question is, is this right what I'm telling him or am I just making excuses. Does this make him gay? If so I am afraid he wont want to be be with me if he is just hiding this from himself at the moment.
He swears he loves me and even more since he told me and I didn't judge him of think less of him. He wants that part of his life to over.
How do I help him. Am I being stupid to think he will stay with me?
Please help. I don't know where else to turn for answers no one else could possibly understand this.

Thank you so much


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#58895 - 11/19/05 02:22 AM Re: Very Confused and Sad!
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Jayssa

Quote:
I explained to him that maybe why he did this in his teen years was to take back the control or power that was taken from him when he was abused as a child.
You said EXACTLY the right thing to him, wow!, it must be the power of love ?

'We' act out like this in confusion because of our abuse, and it took me a long time in therapy to figure out that my acting out was a failed attempt to regain control over the abuse. I somehow felt that by recreating the same sex acts as an adult that I experienced as a boy, but on my own terms, I would be free from the guilt and shame.
It didn't work, and I think everyone else here would say a similar thing

I would doubt that he's gay as well, not unless he actually fancies men. Having sex with men, as in acting out, is an entirely different thing.
Being genuinly gay is something that ( I think ) people 'know' from fairly early on, even though many people do deny it.
What I said to my wife was "hey, whose ass in tight jeans am I watching, the girls or the boys?"

I've been married for over 31 years, and in that time I've had sex with men, but not with other women. I've NEVER fancied another man.

Is he worth the effort of helping? Well, your here looking for clues, so I guess he must be.
Abuse does a lot of damage, but it's not the end of the world. We can, and do, recover our lives. We seek good, specialized, therapy, we get support from partners and friends, and we do the work.
We're not easy people to live with, but as we heal we learn and very often become better people for it.

Stick around, we've got great support and help here.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#58896 - 11/19/05 02:38 AM Re: Very Confused and Sad!
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Hi Jayssa,

You've definately found the right place to come for support and have some questions answered.

First, I'm so sorry that you and your fiance are going through this. My b/f and I of 4 years are in a very similar place, but he was acting out with women, not men. What I've learned here though is that the sex, outside of a relationship, and who it's with doesn't matter a whole lot. What matters is why.

Is your boyfriend gay? I don't know him so I can't say for sure, but from what you've written about your lives together and about what he told you, I tend to doubt it.

There are many survivors here, wonderful men, who I'm sure will respond to your post and they will tell you that they went through the same things your fiance has gone through and no, they are not gay. Being abused does not cause a man to be gay or not to be gay, but it can and does cause a tremendous amount of confusions for the man who has had to live it.

I've only been here for a month, but I've gotten a crash course in what a sexually abused man has to deal with.

Quote:
I explained to him that maybe why he did this in his teen years was to take back the control or power that was taken from him when he was abused as a child.
That is such a dead on assessment! It seems that survivors are always in a struggle for control, mostly with themselves, and sometimes is manifests itself in acting out. That's what your fiance did.

My b/f too was abused by his mother and lord knows who else, he's not ready to tell me and I don't press him. It's hell.

At this point, love him, hold him and be there for him. Not that I need to tell you this. You are a wise and caring woman. He's a lucky man.

Keep coming here and I can assure you that you will find the comfort, support and help you need.

ROCK ON......Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#58897 - 11/19/05 11:09 AM Re: Very Confused and Sad!
TRACYUK Offline
Member

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 178
jayssa

4 months ago I was in pretty much the same situation as yourself. I found out my partner of nine years had been having sex with men throughout his adult life, including throughout our relationship. He was abused by a man when he was 8-9 years old and had an unloving non nuturing upbringing with an extreamly controlling cold mother and a violent father.

He was very confused about his sexuality because he didn't fancy men didnd't want a romantic liaison with a man but felt compelled to repeat sex acts with them even though afterwards he felt humiliation, shame and "a sense" of being abused. Therapy is helping him to understand and he is much more confident about his sexuality and understanding why!!

I'm not an expert and only have one experience to draw from but I had just the same questions as you. I thought I was deluding myself by believing that even though he had sex with men he might not be gay. My only frame of reference was gay men in denial. It has taken a lot of reading, listening to my partner and communicating with people on this website to build another frame of reference that says if a man is a survivor of CSA he might very well have a great deal of confusion about his sexuality. Its obvious to be now but I needed some distance from the hurt and doubt to be able to see and think rationally.

You sound as though you are prepared to understand and learn and be a support to your partner. That will stand you both in good stead. Hopefully he can get some theraputic support and you can also get some support for yourself.

It has not been an easy few months for me and I'm sure you will have challenges yourself but I wouldn't swap my partner for the world. He is sooo worth the effort. I could even say my life is richer and possibliy better for this. Certaintly our relationship has gone from strength to strength.

Good luck, keep posting and very best wishes to you both.

Love

Tracy


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#58898 - 11/19/05 06:48 PM Re: Very Confused and Sad!
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jayssa,

I say your post earlier today but have a lot going on at the moment. Still, I was thinking about it and thought I might be able to add a few bits to the really good observations that Dave, Trish and Tracy have made.

A young boy operates in the world on the basis of a few fundamental assumptions that he doesn't really think about - they are just "there". One is that real catastrophic hurt does not and will not happen to him. Another is that he is a worthwhile and lovable kid. The third is that the world is a safe place. All these connect together and overlap and enable him to grow, develop, and move through childhood to adolescence, trying out the new ideas and possibilities that will shape him as an adult.

For the abused boy, all these assumptions are wrecked and devalidated. He CAN be hurt and IS being hurt in a horrifying, cruel and painful manner, and he was obviously wrong in thinking that the world is a safe place. Why is that? This isn't happening to anyone else, so far as he can see, and he is all alone in his fear, confusion and shame. He concludes that he is NOT worthwhile and lovable, but rather worthless and unlovable. If only he could stop being so bad, then the hurt would also stop. That's what he needs: an answer to how it all can stop. But it doesn't stop, so he feels even more worthless and despicable, and so on.

I can tell you from my own experience that it takes a long time to throw away this terrible and self-destructive>
_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#58899 - 11/20/05 05:30 PM Re: Very Confused and Sad!
jayssa Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 6
Thank you all so much for your words of wisdom. I showed my fiance all of your responses and he feels so much better. It makes total sense to both of us. He said that he feels like a huge weight has been lifted. He had planned on taking this secret to the grave with him ow he wants to heal and grow through this. This has actually made our relationship stronger. He emailed a therapist in our area that specializes in this and is going to meet with him after Thanksgiving. We both needed to read your words and now he feels just by reading these things that he has gained back so much of the power that was taken from him. He still has a way to go but thank you for such a great start. I guess knowledge really IS power.
We'll both be here to offer and gain support.
Thank you again!
Jayssa


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#58900 - 11/20/05 10:58 PM Re: Very Confused and Sad!
TRACYUK Offline
Member

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 178
Thats great that you two have found support in this site already. You are NOT on your own and there are so many really good and experienced people to offer advise and expertise, in my experience its also very safe.

Good luck and best wishes to the both of you.

T


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#58901 - 11/21/05 01:29 AM Re: Very Confused and Sad!
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Jayssa,

How wonderful! Yes, knowledge IS power. And dealing with the pain and hurt is so much healthier than trying to pretend they don't exist. A therapist will help your fiance tremendously while he walks through the mine field that was his childhood. Having you there to hold him will be even more healing.

Continuing to come here because the people here can lend support when it's hard to find elsewhere and that's priceless.

Contratulations to your fiance for taking a HUGE first COUPLE of steps in a very short period of time.

ROCK ON...........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#58902 - 11/21/05 04:44 AM Re: Very Confused and Sad!
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Jayssa,

I want to validate something that Trish said, but from another viewpoint, that of a man who was abused as a young boy.
Quote:
At this point, love him, hold him and be there for him.
Trish is sooo correct in that. For me the floodgates of memory opened up in August of 2003. All the crap from my childhood gushed forth as if it had just taken place. My life was suddenly in wreckage. It took my till February of the following year before I worked up the courage to tell my wife.

Jayssa, she loved and supported me so much. It was astounding to me. I was sure that I would somehow become abhorant in her eyes, but I didn't. She cried with me, held me, made love to me, then did it all over again. Not only that, but she started counseling with me. We attend together and separately. She's never let me go, or lost faith in me. It's made all the difference in the world for me in how I've been able to handle this.

On the issue of sexuality, the others are spot on. Many of us have had questions regarding our sexual identity. For some it has been traumatizing as in my own case. I guess my point here is that your boyfriend is not experiencing something that is uncommon for someone who has been through what he has. Further, I would say that from what you describe, he is not gay. That whole scenario is played out in many of us as a result of thoughts put in our mind by the perp in an effort to shame us and keep us under his control. Or perhaps the belief that we are gay is placed there indirectly by a society that has no comprehension of the issue. Either of those scenario's are something completely different from the person who, regardless of reason, IS gay. The young teen who is facing that question because of having been abused is not equipped to understand the difference, and takes that confusion into adulthood with him where he acts out precisely for the reasons you said in your post, aided by the confusion about his sexuality left over from his youth.

I wish you and your fiance the best as you work through this together. You can become an unstopable team if together you face this terrible thing.

Courage,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#58903 - 11/23/05 08:24 PM Re: Very Confused and Sad!
TRACYUK Offline
Member

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 178
possibly triggering

John

I thought I'd learnt so much about CSA and the effects on a persons sexuality and then you say something so relevant and precisly to the point.

quote
"Or perhaps the belief that we are gay is placed there indirectly by a society that has no comprehension of the issue".

My partner lived with confusion for soo many years and can talk a bit about why. He was so confused because he thought if he was compelled to repeat sex acts with men he would be labelled gay regardless of the fact that he didn't want men romantically or emotionally, FELT abused when he did it, became "zombie like" afterwards and was humiliated to the point of suicidal thoughts.

As far as he was concerned if he spoke up or asked for help he would get the following response; I would drop him like a ton of bricks, his job, family and friends would quickly follow suit, he would be labelled as gay, would spend the rest of his life giving BJ's in the woods to the oldest most repulsive men he could find and his only option would be to become homeless and disapear or kill himself.

Frankly that leaves me with two thoughts; 1. we have an obligation as a society to INFORM ourselves of the issue, the effects and the help that is available and 2. I'm not really surprised that he took the option of lying to me and continuing to act out hoping he could hold it all together indefinatly.

Love to all of you who have felt any similar pressure.

Tracy


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