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#58309 - 03/15/04 11:52 PM Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
HI all,
I know I havent had much to contribute very often -- mostly I am just at a plain old loss as to what to say or if anything I do have to say is worth a hill of beans....
Hubby and I are at such a freaking stand still in our relationship it isnt even something I can quite put into words.
We arent fighting, we arent silent, we arent anything... yet inside deep inside I know its not right... its not even a case of avoidance.
Right this moment I can tell you I am struggeling again to not act on killing myself --- god the drugs are there on the cabinet shelf, tellign me there is enough to do the sjob.... but what for?
Its a good thing my nature is more to procrastinate, I have beocme probably the greatest actor in this shit called life.
One moment I cant live without him the next I wish to hell he was dead.
The relationhsop has not moved forward -- he is doign his normal behavior for rthe last 17 years of our mariage, something that even I knew would havppen... I know that httere is litterally notheing I can do to make changes in him or anyhone around me... but changing myself is even more moot....
Oh on the outside I can say taht I can undersrtand, identify and be compassionate with his feelings of surviving the horrific abuses from his childhood -- but I have no feelings of honor or pride in his dealign with or rarther lack of dealting with his abuse issues. I see him as weak and avoiding what is clearly issues he could resolve without causing more pain to me or those aeround him ---- he whines is hateful to others and then puffs himself up to be somekind of a fucking super star in shit taht means notheing int he end..... a sham ---
he said to me that he wanted to start couples counseling. weeks and monts pass by, no movement -- he mentioned it in passing, my response, well hell i htot if he was serious he would make the calland do the research, schedule the appt --- not my job as far as i aws concerned. being the wife who got fucked over with an std and his criminal act , that only my disease and poor health situation kept his stupid ass out of jail -- i was the easy out from that situation.
oh yea my heart vroke for a short while as i too know the pain of rape/s --
lame attempts, he does this stupid short bursts of goiagn to therapy or to group for sex addicts then it wanes into nothing again, until he must pick up some sense that i am not involved in whether he works his issues ornot... then back to the drawing board again..... short bursts of going.... this past sun he went to group therapyu again, why? only because just like the last time the facillitator called to ck on him, like he can only go if someone shows an interest in him making him feel "special" enough to be cared about to grace them with his precense.
he came home rightfgully pissed off agiant that the pedophile was in gropu again stating "i am helpless against molesting my daughter"
hubby slips in and out of these "modes" where he is one time completely takaing repsponsibility for fucking up by having sex with his own daughters drinking buddy, then criticizes the shit out of the guy who molested his daughter? what gives?.... one time its not his fauilt the next time it is his fault? ---
the whole time he says he wants nothing more than for me to move home, the next breath he tells me he has resigned himself to the fact that I am never goign to move home?
does he want me or not? -- i try to hang on to me somewhere in this....
i'm not fignding much of me to hang onto--- i've tried to be a good person, to work my own issues somewhere in here and take responsibility for them... to busy myself beyond this whole stupid survivor life... i am more much more than a survivor -- a vibrant person who has much to offer... but what for?
i'm tired, and need someonw to give back to me somewhere ---
i have a male friend who has helped me recover from my near death experience this past summer -- i am losign tyhis battle baddly and even he has weaned away...
is there no one in this life who can commit to seeing me to the endf of my life?
forget about some spiritual god bullshit --- it aint happening for me ....
i feel so fucking lonely and am using dope agian -- decided it was easier to be foggd out until i can die.... i just dotn have it any mroe and those who usupposely care around me have shown they dont have time to care ..... i just dont have the guts to do the final thing...... i'm so fucking depressedd .......
he hasnt been worth the work or the fight if he wont help himself..... i've tried to help myself abut i cant do this bullshit diseawse by myself either....
i wish those who promised to help me kill myself whould have the balls t o do just ahty....
i know this doesnt make mluch sense..... none of it doesl
if it had to do it all over again i would choose to run from everyone and be a money hungry bitch so i could haved spent thse past few days on teh beach drunk and stoned so i could ber washe dout the sea.....
its justnot worth any ofit not worth the pain the memories, the t4ears the lies the betryals.....


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#58310 - 03/16/04 12:23 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
kolisha54 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 475
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
So sorry you are in such pain!!!

First thing: get yourself a new name. "Wifey" is just not healthy at this point.

2nd thing: substance abuse & numbing are indicative of a severe failure of self-love. Whose judgmental, sarcastic voice have you internalized??? Time to vomit this out once & for all!

3rd thing: find some time to give yourself the gift of creativity. Getting outside yourself & the stuffiness of abuse would be like a breath of fresh air. The best books are written by Julia Cameron... Take yourself out on an "artist date" the way she recommends.

4th thing: try to learn kindness. Deep inside of you there is a sweet & innocent young girl who is still curious & shy about the world around her....

5th thing: dump the jerk!

6th thing: sorry I called him a jerk....

Hugs,

_________________________
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now... when? --Hillel

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#58311 - 03/16/04 12:52 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
theo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 1117
at this point, sammi, kolisha's observation is right on target. call a duck a duck. i remember being there with you when you were going through some of this a few months ago.

i know that road you are on. i lived it for two straight years 24/7. my fog was my favorite porter. you reached out to me when i was going through some really rough things several months ago and it was in large part your contribution in pm's and steadfast friendship that helped me put that episode of mine in a better perspective, relative to the forum here.

there is no translation of his behavior. before, i was able to see a lot of similarities between him and i but now the similarities have ceased. i try to place myself in his shoes. i can see some of the behavior and the rationale he would be using but in the end, it is his choice to avoid what needs to be done. i am going through two major episodes of flashback hell myself in the last three days and struggling with their repercussions and failing here and there...but the one thing i would not do is turn my back on the one i love. i am really trying to put myself in his shoes so i could give you some kind of insight as to why he is doing what he is doing, but i cannot get there. i think the real difference, sammi, is that he simply gave up.

i have been really worried about you and have wondered how you were doing and how you were recovering from the latest hospital stay of a few months ago. men make mistakes, but the difference in being a man and being a schmuck is that the real man keeps trying, no matter how painful it is...i know, it hurts like nothing i ever known before, yet i am still looking toward that horizon i talk about so often. it hurt so much when my former did what she did to me and i hurt for so long just waiting and praying she would come back. i was actively suicidal once, and passively suicidal for two years before i finally accepted it was over. i was then able to get on with my shattered life and lady theo came into it to show me what living was really all about. you are not alone, sammi. the moment you picked up that keyboard you touched a friend. i am not at your side physically, but i have been there with you ever since you reached out to me, a stranger, and shared your journey to help me. i am here, sammi, whenever you need me, and lady theo is here as well, plus the people whom you touched in your effort to be a human being. you are not alone, my friend.

_________________________
journey well,
theo dewolfe

- It is gift, and gift will find its way
- I inherit through my choice. I build through my affirmation. It is through my freedom that I nurture, or fade into autonomy
- I was not given to serve life, but to embrace it

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#58312 - 03/16/04 01:39 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
gryffindor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 131
Loc: St. Charles, Illinois
Wifey,

You are a lot more than a wife. You have an identity other than one which defines you only in relationship to the man you are married to or to any other man. You need to find that girl/woman and love her. She's you. You need attention from yourself. You need to take care of you. The health of your body, mind, and soul cries out for it because they are starving. Nurture yourself.

Your husband is doing the best he can for himself in his own way. Let him go. You can't arrange his life for him, go to therapy for him, diagnose his problems, cure him or explain him to himself. He must survive under his own management. It's the only way he will ever learn to be entirely responsible for himself and his behavior. His pain is his responsibility. Your pain is yours.

Right now you need to focus all of your energy, love, and care on yourself. I've been where you are now. At the time, I couldn't see any future except emptyness. I didn't feel like there was any point to my life. I didn't end it because I knew that if I did, it would hurt my daughter horribly. She would inherit my pain and make it her own just as I made my mother's pain my own. You can ride this bad period out. The lows eventually pass. While it's going on try to do something that will distract your attention from your bad feelings even if it is watching tv all day. Other possibilities are spending time at the library or a bookstore, window shopping/real shopping, reading anything -- books, magazines, the National Enquirer, surfing the internet, taking walks -- arts and/or crafts. I buy art design books at Borders and color the pictures with colored art pencils. When the weather is good, I garden. Lots of people keep journals. (Check out livejournal.com). Other people write poetry, short stories, novels, self-help and inspirational books, whatever. Still others become deeply involved in the religion of their choice. There are millions of possibilities. The only limitations are your personal preferences, health, and strength.

I know that you have kept yourself in good shape in spite of having cardiovascular disease. You can return to your good habits and throw the drugs out. In the long run, drugs make things worse for you and your heart. Think of how hard that heart works for you. You and your heart are very tired. It's time for you to stop thinking and worrying about everyone except yourself. It's your turn now. You are the most important person in your world. Please don't let yourself down.

Lots of love,
Mary

_________________________
"Where there's a will, there's a way." American Folk Saying

"Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in darkness, I would not have recognized the light." Midrash Tehillim Ch. 22

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#58313 - 03/16/04 01:50 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
I feel so ashamed.... ashamed that I cannot be more of a caring being toward him than I am feeling.
there is goodness in him -- i have felt it and i have seen it.... ashamed i am not being strong enough to want to see this through more.
ashamed and embarrassed at myself for not being the strong person that i present to those around me.
inside i feel so much hate and confusion for so much in my life and in his too --
what the fuck kind of a person am i who can know so intimately what it is he struggles with
the nightmares of torture over and over of his own abuse -- the torture of his horrific c**t of a supposed mother, his struggle to gain a sense of self.... all mirroring of me and my own self
is it true that two survivors cannot ever make a go of a long term relationship?
i am so frightened all the time.... of everything -- noises, fear of letting down my kiddos,... embarrassed to have dreams and wishes that i never was born, that i never gave birth that i never allowed myself to fake a sense of trust in anyone
then the overwhelming urges to have sex --- and not just loving sex... but wanting to desperately be choked during sex.... hurt, hair pulled and slammed and pinched and hit
to strike back at him when he wants to reach out to me....
i got angry at my own therapist and quit going to see him -- he too became to "bossy" telling me that I should do XXX -- as if it was some threat to get over my sorry ass self and get over it -- that i had made my bed and now must lie in it....
i know some where in the back of this distorted thinking that i could analyze the shit out of myself and understand with reason WHY i am feeling, doing the things behaviours that i have been doing....
i geuss part of me is screaming for attention ? not attention so much but HELP... help because i am so fucking tired of being alone
alone in the process of surviving and trying to change what i know is so fuckign wrong in my life
i dont want to face down my kiddos and tell them i think their "daddy" is a hopeless son of a bitch who is never gonna grow up and be the man he should be
and then guilt overwhelms me... what the fuck kind of a bitch am i to place those kinds of expectations on a man boy who has been so injured
at what point or is there a point that i give up and do the unthinkable? abandon a co survivor?
i have tried to pace myself to care for me along the way... to allow him room to grow and heal as he needs for his own self --- he much deserves that same respect as much as i do
its so fucking painful
i need to be wrapped in arms that are so willing to be strong and hold me and protect me against myself ---- and i dont knwo where to find it?
i know i am hurting myself doping up at this point but i dotn feel as if anyone has been listening either --- what options do i have left?
this is no way to live... i just dotn have the energy anymore to fight for me or for him
he doesnt deserve to be abandoned anymroe than any survivor does
is it too much for two partners to be survivors togehter?
i did activily seek ways to kill myself on the web tonight and it is scarey to realize that there are sites that actually list ways to commit suicide in detail stelp by step.... and in the end i found a site aobut a set of parents who wrote about there son who had been raped who ended ujp committing suicide -- god my heart breaks for them.....
do i continue to try? amd i not giving him the room he needs to heal thru this? is it my responsiblity to push him to find support group for folks who are losing family or partners to a shitty long death?...
theln i get so angry at knowing that all the work i did tryingt be a survivor rather than a victim and it feels all for notheirng..... god i am so fucking sad
am i not being fair to him?
am i not giving him the fair amount of time he needs to heal from his own pain, that makes me a bad partner....
its allso twisted ----
Ken singer if you see this can you helpl me? can you tell me is he worth this pain inthe end? can he be saved? will he break and re commit? wehat is his healign process when h4e is a survivor and a perpetrator all in one?
is he truly a perpetrator too? i want a hard and fast answer to that... if he is definetly a perpetrator is he worth throwing away? and if i do that how in the fuck do i move on and die without support?
i have no parents to suppot me to do this -- the docs dont care anymore ... my sibs haver th4eir own shit to deal with my girls need to be spared as much pain as possible....
i am so wiped in the inside --- will this pass?
i keep myself involved in volunteer activities, but the price i pay is my health degrading quicker....
i feel so swirled in such a pile of shit
i know he has qualities worth hangin on to to work on and improve, ... but how do we / or i prioritize them to know if the outcome is worth this horrible struggles of contemplating tghe god damn suircide shit again
will i always struggle with wanteing ot kill myself?.... i can fake it for awhile but i am nmot sure how mluch longer
help me osmeone.... i dont know where else to go.
the female survivor sites hate men,.... lthey dont understand or have the room to comprehend he carries pain also....
am i just a fucking sap and need to choose to be a sap or is it black and wehite in choice?
i havent cried so much but it is there and who is tfhere or here to hear my tears and pain
why does eveyrone leavle?
why do people make god damn promises they cant keep:?
i dotn want to really kill myself... but i dont know what to do....
how do i kick him out of my life when to live i am desperately in need of his health insureance to live?
do i give that up and suffer a slower death? or do i just do the deed and not have to decide anymroe?
and i am Wifey1..... i have been a good Wifey and know this and a good mommy.....
i dont knwo what claim to me i could identify with i have never had a name of my own chosen by me just for me
altho some folks have recently dubbed me a community leader.... but what community do i lead?
after all -- base root would be "common" ---
so mayabe i am jlust common


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#58314 - 03/16/04 10:07 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
Sister,

You aren't a sap. You love someone and you see they're in need. It's easy to ignore your own pain (TRUST me on this one!) when you see someone else in pain.

You are also not "common." You are a unique child of the universe. There's only one of you. You have a caring heart and a decency that a lot of people don't have. So, to me, you're anything, ANYTHING, but "common."

Unfortunately, I see in your husband a version of me that I'm trying to correct. He may be so deep in his own pain that he doesn't, or can't, reach out beyond his own needs. And while this is normal, he seems to be beyond seeing you and your kids as having needs as well. That is toxic and it is unhealthy for you.

Trying to care for him also seems to have robbed you of your own identity and sense of need. An yes, it's okay to need from him as well as help him. Sister, you need to be healthy yourself and for yourself, as well as for your kids. He may not be the best thing for you.

Tired of being alone? I hate to say it, but it sounds like you are alone, and he needs to be made aware that he has to, HAS TO, reach out to you. He has to make this effort for you and the kids and you WILL NOT tolerate being held as a second-class citizen just because he is recovering from his own abuse.

He needs to see value in others as well. And maybe laying down the law will kick-start him into making the changes HE needs to make.

And it will increase your value, in his eyes and more importantly yours, as the caring, thinking woman we KNOW you are.

Please consider this carefully. And whatever you do, I care about you, my sister. You'll always have an identity, and value, with me and us.

Peace and love,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#58315 - 03/16/04 12:47 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Pollyanna Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 211
Loc: Missouri
(((((((((Sammy)))))))))

Sounds like your "bucket is empty". This is a great place to start filling it back up. You are cared about, understood, and not alone.

You ARE the strong person you have presented to others. You would not have come this far otherwise. Everyone needs a break from so much stress sometimes, and it doesn't mean you are weak or bad, or not compassionate in any way. the whole load is not supposed to be yours to carry.

You have seen good in him, and I'm sure it IS there. He definitely needs help, but for some reason, he just can't DO it right now. Only the guys here could explain that. You've tried really hard to understand him as well as yourself. That is a big load to carry, and an admirable thing, but right now, maybe it's a good idea to take care of yourself for awhile. You can't hold someone else up when you are flat on your back. Your girls need you.

I know you want all this to just stop, but the "s word" is not an option, as the guys here have said so many times. There are good things ahead, even if you can't see them right now. It is worth it.

Hugs,

Lynn

_________________________
"Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up."

Anne Lamott

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#58316 - 03/16/04 01:20 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Sammy

I know the feeling of thinking that others are "weak" for avoiding their easily-solved problems or for needing lots of support... mostly this feeling isn't about them though, it's about me... it's not anger AT them, it's anger FOR me... the flip side of the "he is weak, he's not doing anything" issue is the one about myself, the one that goes, "And look at all the stuff I've done, I managed to cope with this and that and HIS shit on top of it, and no one was checking on me, I just did it..."

Well you know what, you can be angry about that all on its own, what's more, you deserve to be proud of it and you deserve some credit for it. I think sometimes the anger at the other person comes from feeling that there's no credit for all that you've done, and you know just because you did it doesn't mean it's not hard, it doesn't mean that just anyone can do it, there are lots of people who can't do it and you are not one of them.

For a long time I thought I was nothing special, anything I did, even the really tough things, were just things that anyone could do if they wanted to badly enough. I wasn't any more patient, brave, loving, intelligent, etc. than anyone else, I just did what the situation required. Because I couldn't see what was good in myself, I saw a lack of what was good in myself as a weakness in others. Really they were doing okay, and I was doing much better than okay, but I just couldn't believe that about myself.

But there really is no meaning in those words outside of actions, that is what I'm figuring out. If I am being brave and loving, then I AM brave and loving. And YOU ARE brave, and loving. You are still those things even when you feel ashamed and frightened.

I wish I had answers for you. I wish I could tell you if there's hope for your relationship or your husband. I do want to tell you that hope or no hope, it hasn't been for nothing. Just because you've gone above and beyond for your husband and kids and community, and not for yourself, doesn't mean that you haven't gone above and beyond. I haven't chosen much about myself (who has?) but I've proud of what I've done with myself.

peace
SAR


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#58317 - 03/16/04 07:17 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Sammi
I just saw "Wifey1" on the forum and thought "Sammi's back, great !" - but nothing could have prepared me for what you've just written.

What's the answer ? f****d if I know ! - the answers have to be yours.
I would suggest that you get out of it all for a while if you can, just long enough to get yourself grounded again and think clearly. Maybe that's not practical ? so keep you distance from hubby for a while. Tell him to stay away until YOU'VE had a chance to think. Don't fight and rant, it's doing you no good is it ?

What you need to do is THINK, not fight. Only then can you hope to make the right decisions, whatever they might be.
It's clear there's something there between you and hubby, but is enough any more ? Tough call, but is the balance of grief and hassle worth what's left between you ? Sometimes being alone isn't as scary as we think.

Keep ranting at us Sammi, we don't mind because we've been ranted at by professionals before now, oh - I forgot that WAS you the last time you were here! ;\)

Take care of yourself, because you're the most important person in your life.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#58318 - 03/16/04 10:48 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Sammi:
You wrote:
Quote:
is he worth this pain inthe end? can he be saved? will he break and re commit? wehat is his healign process when h4e is a survivor and a perpetrator all in one?
is he truly a perpetrator too? i want a hard and fast answer to that... if he is definetly a perpetrator is he worth throwing away? and if i do that how in the fuck do i move on and die without support?
A lot of perpetrators (but not all) were victimized. "Can he be saved?" Probably, but he needs to want to change. If he doesn't, he won't.

If he thinks what he did was no big deal or he did not cause harm, or that he is not going to do it again without the right help, he is at greater risk to do it again. He needs sex offender-sepcific treatment from someone who knows about this and is experienced. If you pm me with your location, I will get some names for you.

One way you can "move on and die without support" is perhaps to think of yourself as Sammi rather than Wifey. In other words, as an individual rather than as an extension of him. You are incredibly strong, even with your ailments and dependencies. Few people I've run across have had as many obstacles and setbacks as you have and still survive. I wondered where you were the past month or two and although I'm sorry you are going through such tough times, I'm glad you are back with us.

Hang in there. If you have any input in his recovery, get back to me and give him the names I hope I can get for you. The rest is up to him.

Ken


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#58319 - 03/17/04 01:50 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
gryffindor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 131
Loc: St. Charles, Illinois
Dear Sammi,

You are a wonderful, caring person. In spite of your health problems you have been blessed with more energy than anyone I've ever known. I'm not surprised that you're running on empty because you have devoted your energy, compassion and empathy to everyone except yourself. Please hang on. I am so proud to know you. You are not a common, ordinary woman. You are unique, a beautiful, intelligent, uncommon woman. Please pm me anytime. I'm sending you a pm with a couple of suggestions. Keep yourself safe.

Lots of love,
Mary

_________________________
"Where there's a will, there's a way." American Folk Saying

"Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in darkness, I would not have recognized the light." Midrash Tehillim Ch. 22

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#58320 - 03/17/04 02:21 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
My dear Supportive Friends and Family,
Thank you so dearly for the kind words of support for my bleeding soul. Your words, all of them from each of you have helped to soothe my pain -- a much needed soothing.... so Hugs to each of you.
Today I am sure I drove more than a few people a tad nuts... because I was in such a space that repeatedly I asked who ever would give me the time of a moment if hubby2 was a perpetrator in their eyes or view. I was so suprised to hear them say no... no they dont believe that he is a perp or that he would re commit -- I asked those who know the details of his crime. AND I and hubby agree that it was a perpetration and crime.
... So Ken yes he does admit that he committed an act of perpetration. Yet during some conversations when it is more focused on his situation and healing as a "victim" he then leans more toward that he was a victim in this situation --- but then goes on to quickly attach that he is an adult now and is responsible for the choices he made and that he hurt this female and his daughters and family. So I geuss I get two messages in this... perhaps it is a situation of both?... but deep down I think of all the years of my therapy and how my belief is that once the line is crossed to perpetrator -- a perpetrator is what is first and foremost, vicitim is is secondary.... am I wrong in that thinking?
I will PM you Ken with our info for your help.
So today as I tried to unswirl and pray that no one flush while I was spinning the bowl of shit in my head .... am I just feeling very victimized by him, unresolved anger at his action and that is why I am more focusing on him being a perp? Not allowing him the much needed room to heal himself? By placing my own expectations of how to heal on him tho I dont speak them? or say any ultimatium bullshit (thats unfair and not right). Am I just so damn biased as a survivor that I have not given him room and reasonable time to deal with this as he needed ? sort of the "I want what I want and I want it now" syndrome?
I am taking steps to care for me along this way.. I did break down and ask doc for some pain killers ( my leg is dying and it is very painful i've been holding off to try and keep my brains about me, but need to hide the pain so I can walk and exercise its a shitty cycle too) -- I called off a critical meeting to stay in bed and just give my body some much needed sleep -- then fed my self -- played with my 9 yr old kiddo that I babysit for a bit each day --- watched the boob tube, and put off even more meetings just to not think about the whole world hunger shit I need to solve (housing issues but you get the idea) -- tommorrow is a new day to work on it some more.
I've spent a long time trying to "vomit out" the negativity messages -- but they keep crawling in some how ? some times I wonder how much of my much needed meds that have a side effect of depression create a physical battle that allows for negative messages to enter easier, perhaps making it easier for them to sneak in?
My creativity that I work on is definetly in my community work in many levels and I truly enjoy the folks I work with who are fun and we do laff a lot yet work for the good of society as a whole, successes definetly outweight the short term stresses attached to it.
And hey if anyone calls him a jerk its A ok with me -- hell inside I certainly have called him far worse .....
Theo, remember I shared that he was going back to face his c**t of a supposed mother -- and I wonder if what i am getting the brunt of is the fall out from that visit, she has called him on several occassions attacking me personally --- I have been amazed at his strength to stand her down and defend me to her?.. Honor in that, but huge fall out stress after the fact as you know, nightmares etc.... but he isnt sharing the info, I cant push it but have offered to listen if he wants to talk about it --- his sisters are now pushing him to some how but in favor of the c**t not in favor of his healing --- perhaps I am getting fall out of a phase of needign to hate women? The pendulumn syndrome until he can return to center? Am I just not being patient and understanding of this much needed expression and growth period?
Mary, your words have come as a prayer for my bruised and batterd soul. Thank you so much for sharing --- and I know that you share because you too have experienced this pain ---
I stopped a long time ago trying to fix him, heal him, direct his healing etc... to let him do this on his own -- in the back ground my mind and soul at times scream at the horror of watching him experience the very things that I too did to get thru to my own survivor status -- I am not sure which is more painful, experiencing the healing process or watchign some one who is so loved and so full of potential to achieve greatness and fulfillment of their lives bear the pain. -- for me the stereo gets a lot of very loud play -- as I pace and clean non existent dust bunnies trying to organize what is impossible to rationalize or organize.
Quote:
You are a lot more than a wife. You have an identity other than one which defines you only in relationship to the man you are married to or to any other man. You need to find that girl/woman and love her. She's you. You need attention from yourself. You need to take care of you. The health of your body, mind, and soul cries out for it because they are starving. Nurture yourself.
I have been trying to think of what my identity has been beyond wife and momma -- currently I work in my community as a leader for housing issues, homelessness, lead abatement, substandard housing, dispersing HUD funds for housing & social needs, kiddo social programs, tutoring, child care for a friend, have in the past worked in health care for about 10 yrs, I garden as a hobby, do support info for heart info, support single parents, sex education and my biggest and most favorite is the local politics and my baby of all babies --- a city wide crime committee (**ok gonna brag here we just had an animal ordinance that we wrote enacted at our state level after 3 years on our city books and my friend being mauled while i was there so it was a big success for us**) -- in the community folks pretty much know that if they are too scared to present to intimidating reps that I am the one who will ask the blunt hard questions to find resolve for all. Martha Stewart probably would have hated to have me on her jury (oops did I say that outloud? LOL)
I geuss I adopted this attitude as a kiddo growing up that I was gonna get the beating whether I did the crime or not so I may as well be the one who can take the hits now...????
so what would I rename myself as? --- My birth name means "Helper of Mankind" --- Maybe I am a Thorny Rose? I do love to garden and roses are my pet favorite ....???? and yet my friends tell me I have more love and compassion and am a softy --- hmmmm perhaps I am the bleeding heart totally meant in a good way?
How about some suggestions for a new name if Wifey1 doesnt do justice anymore?
Scot, you know as many other survivors on this site know his pain... know how much it can bend the psyche into something that is not all representative of the true goodness inside -- a distorted representation of WHO one is and what they stand for.... I have faith that he can heal --- I truly do, I know it can happen....
Quote:
He needs to see value in others as well. And maybe laying down the law will kick-start him into making the changes HE needs to make.
does this mean I need to give him an ultimatum to get his shit together? do I give him a time limit? and if so how long? I think this is not a reality as healing is not something one can do in a set time limit -- or am I missing the point in this.... I know I need to take my needs into consideration first in this --- but here is my kunundra and maybe its just bullshit avoidance on my part -- and dont be afraid to tell me if you think it is.... he was so supportive and remains there thru every step of my own struggles as a survivor.... dont I owe him some sort of respect and time to heal as he has given me ? or did he blow that opportunity when he crossed the line screwing that female?
and SAR --- oh my oh my .... is there anything that you shared that didnt ring truth in my own private thoughts thru this hell called being a partner? --
Quote:
it's not anger AT them, it's anger FOR me... the flip side of the "he is weak, he's not doing anything" issue is the one about myself, the one that goes, "And look at all the stuff I've done, I managed to cope with this and that and HIS shit on top of it, and no one was checking on me, I just did it..."
You're so right in the anger FOR me!! Who gets angry for US? Who keeps us connected and blessed with support for each other? In probably the loneliest fucking job in this whole healing bullshit? I want someone to grab me up, hold me and tell me that the world will return to its original axis....
Quote:
there are lots of people who can't do it and you are not one of them.
and that goes for each and every one of us who come here for support, survivor and supporter alike... we are blessed with each other.

and Dave this is so right and already put into place the thinking however is still in a toilet spin... please dont flush yet! \:D
Quote:
What's the answer ? f****d if I know ! - the answers have to be yours.
I would suggest that you get out of it all for a while if you can, just long enough to get yourself grounded again and think clearly. Maybe that's not practical ? so keep you distance from hubby for a while. Tell him to stay away until YOU'VE had a chance to think. Don't fight and rant, it's doing you no good is it ?

What you need to do is THINK, not fight. Only then can you hope to make the right decisions, whatever they might be.
Ken I am going to share some answers with you on this posting as I know you work with perps also -- a very important part of this work to stop sexual abuse --- just my opinion i havent seen much about the healing or maintenance of perps so as not to reoffend -- hopefully this will help others to gain some insight as well as share some valuable information and thanks again gang!
Quote:
"Can he be saved?" Probably, but he needs to want to change. If he doesn't, he won't.
He wobbles, while he takes complete responsibility in his actions of injuring the female & Others his own victim status gets mixed in here too.... is this an either or situation? Is he able to work both issues at once or is it work the perp issues first then the survivor issues? Is there protocol?
Quote:
If he thinks what he did was no big deal or he did not cause harm, or that he is not going to do it again without the right help, he is at greater risk to do it again.
He thinks what he did is a HUGE deal and is very disgusted with himself states that he knows he did harm, at times tho states that the female did harm also to him? ... he continues attempts at therapy to prevent recommitting the sexual addictive behavior something that he truly believes was a "gateway" that allowed for the perpetration to happen ....

Gang its good to be back -- its a sad state that I have not been able to bring myself to share more of what the last few months have held in this healing or fucking mind swirl --- you're a superior bunch and this heart thanks you -- I will sleep easier and yes even drug free ---
Peace and Hugs for All, Sammy


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#58321 - 03/17/04 02:56 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
theo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 1117
sammi,
as always, my freind, there is much in what you say. i wish i could take the time and respond to it all. that will have to wait till thursday at least because of my academics. i would like to share just a little now, though.

i do recall what your shared with me about him and his honor and strength in reference to his own perp. i will respond more in depth later (i am totally exhausted). what i just wanted to say now is that despite his points pf honor and strength, his inconsistency points to something more important. you have a responsibility to those you care and love, true, but you have a responsibilty to yourself as well. you can never turn your back on someone you love, but sometimes you have to stand aside in some respects. ultimatums are the wrong choice, endless talking is counter-productive, touching his soul...if he allows you to, is the most effective means of helping him. he has to make the call on that score, sammi, about letting someone in to touch his soul. until he can do that, he will keep spinnig his wheels. i keep struggling with my own demons, but i really try to continue forward. i also struggle with not identifying too closely with the victim mentality. he seems to be victim and perp, not a survivor, yet. there is a difference, as you well know. more later. take care, sammi.

_________________________
journey well,
theo dewolfe

- It is gift, and gift will find its way
- I inherit through my choice. I build through my affirmation. It is through my freedom that I nurture, or fade into autonomy
- I was not given to serve life, but to embrace it

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#58322 - 03/17/04 03:13 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
Sammi,

You've asked me a direct series of questions. They're hard for me to answer. For all the details you've shared, and for all the honesty that comes through in your posts, I'm not in your head. I'm not you. I can't say what's best for you.

I know what's not best for you, sweetie, and that's beating yourself up over something that isn't in your hands. Your husband has to be the one to change, and for all the good he has done for you and been to you, he is hurting you right now. He is hurting your family now. He needs to change this behavior, if not for himself, but for you and yours.

The hardest part of the whole situation for me to reconcile is - geez, I don't know how to put this without hurting or offending you (which I don't want to do, believe me) - the fact that he has perpetrated. On the one hand, one incident doesn;t make you an evil person. It makes you a person that decided to do an evil thing. Perhaps a deviation in his behavior, perhaps not. I don't know the details (again, and I'm grateful this time), but what age was the person he abused? Was it classic "abuse" or perhaps a simple "crossing over" of a line? I'm splitting hairs at this, but it's important to see where his head was at in this situation. Did he INTEND to "abuse" this person? Was it simply a moment of weakness? Does he regret it? DOES HE PUT HIMSELF IN THE VICTIM'S SHOES? This is the key question, because, no matter how much he says he regrets the action, no matter how much he was abused as a child, he NEEDS to have the empathy and the realization for how much damage he may have done this person. He NEEDS to realize this action wasn't done in a vacuum. My own situation, well, it started with reletively "minor" stuff, and if it had just been this "stuff," I'd still be dealing with that. Add on top the other crapola and it became worse, but JUST the minor stuff changed me for life.

And, I'd be less than honest if I didn't say this, I see how you are feeling, and I hear your side of it, and I'm not optimistic. I am saying this in the way you see him treating you. He seems oblivious to your needs, he seems to be emotionally abusive, and he seems to be taking your concerns less than seriously. It appears to me that he doesn't care about how his behavior affects you and your child(ren? Sorry. My mind's not in a happy place right now and the memory's like a sieve!). This shows me that he is very wrapped up in the "poor me" syndrome and will not even begin to consider his actions unless there's a step toward making him face concrete consequences. As if criminal prosecution and jail time (?) isn't enough!

So, yes, I feel (my opinion and any of the experts can feel free to critique me. I don't have "Ph.D" or "M.D." after my name) that you need to TELL him how this has made you feel, any CONCERNS you may have now for your well-being and the well-being of your kids, and set forth a deadline for him to TAKE STEPS AND CORRECT these things. And yes, tell him that there WILL be consequences if he doesn't do them. Most importantly, follow through with the consequences. Yes, it's hard, but I don't see any other way of waking him up and making him aware of what EXACTLY he's done.

This is hard for me to say, because I know you love him. I know you see much good in him. But I see what you've written and I don't see the kind of man worth putting up this crap for. And, again, I'd be lying if I didn't say this, it's hard for me to sympathise with someone whose offended. I know, there but for the grace of God, but despite how I've f**ked over my OWN life, I've never hurt anyone else willingly and it's something I fear in me because of what the m***********s have done and what I hear about abusers. I DO fear this in me, and it's hard to see when someone crosses the line that there's anything to be sympathetic toward. But people DO make mistakes, and I hope in his case it IS an aberration.

I know I'm longwinded, and I've probably aliented you, but you asked a question. I want what's best for YOU Sammi, because I see the kind of person you are. I know the heart you have. I've felt your love towards me and everyone else at this site. It pains me to see you in such pain. I care about YOU, sister. I want what's best for you.

I hope you know that.

And, whetever you decide to do, I'll be here for you still.

Peace and love, Sammi. I do care.

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#58323 - 03/17/04 04:05 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Sammy it's good to see you in a better place.

Maybe laying down the law doesn't need to be about time or deadlines, but about some hard and fast rules for right now... what is always unacceptable no matter what he is feeling, what behaviors you can not tolerate, the sort of minimum level of effort you need him to put forward if he's going to be around you. Not trying to accelerate his healing, just getting him to occupy the space he's in right now in the healthiest way he knows. For example, tell him you won't be around if all he wants to do is criticize and be hateful, he's got to do that somewhere else.

I have more to say but not right now

peace
SAR


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#58324 - 03/17/04 04:25 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
P.s. to an already longwinded post,

Sammi, as someone who's walked down the path of suicide, I'm glad you didn;t do it. I'm glad you;re still here, and I celebrate that you are a wonderful person who has the strength to see that suicide is NEVER the answer in these cases.

Sister, I've almost hanged myself in a bathroom stall. I was actually choking myself to death when I realized that this was such a tawdry end. Look into methods? I WAS there and it should've scared Hell out of me. Unfortunately, I still struggle with it on occasion, but it's only a stray thought or two now and then.

I've seen the pain for those left behind. I've LIVED the guilt and heartache. Such a legacy you don't want to leave your loved ones. And you are destined for such greatness, sweetie, I can tell. This is not hollow praise. You've survived so much and you've grown so much, I can SEE it.

If you ever get that close again, Sammi, I want you to promise me you'll GET HELP RIGHT AWAY. I don't want to lose someone else to suicide when it's preventable.

I mean it. I care too much to lose you.

Peace and love, dear sister,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#58325 - 03/17/04 05:12 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
kolisha54 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 475
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Don't we have an AMAZING community????

To all of you - especially Sammi - you have touched me so deeply by your honesty & integrity!!!

And Sammi - I love the idea that you are thinking of a new name: oddly enough, in Jewish theology, taking a new name is considered by some to be a method of achieving "re-turn" and "re-pentence" in order to become Whole & at peace again.

Hang in there, You! You have brought out so much good in the rest of us!!!

Hugs!

_________________________
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now... when? --Hillel

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#58326 - 03/17/04 06:57 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
On the subject of bias/victimization: Yes, being a survivor may give you a different perspective on your problems with hubby, but many partners have expectations that their survivor-partners see as unreasonable, get frustrated when their partners demand time and space for themselves, get angry when betrayed. Perhaps as a survivor, you are better able to empathize with the other people he's hurt. Or you take it more personally. But he has hurt you as a partner and that would be an issue for you no matter what, and it deserves addressing, you shouldn't have to feel that your anger about this hurt is biased or a result of your own abuse.

Dishonesty and breaking promises are big BIG issues for me--I grew up in an place where promises were made and broken all the time and we were expected to "cover up" our problems in public, which I saw as dishonesty. Now my boyfriend knows about me and lying, and he knows why. So when I say the lies hurt me more than anything else he did, it means something special to me, but is that a statement that only another survivor would make? I don't think so. Is it only because of my own abuse history that I tell him that? Probably not. Was it irrational anger over feeling victimized again that made me tell him that everyone, including him, who's ever been close to me has let me down? Well, yes. And it was not really right of me to say. But that last one is about me and my expectations of others and of him as a partner. I've decided to give him a second chance, but I'm also better than I was before about being clear about my expectations, and he needs to know about me that I don't easily forgive a broken promise and I probably won't again. If you feel like you need to keep your problems with his problems on a low level to get your "survivor bias" out of the picture, then keep it low but don't dismiss all your hurt like this.

Yes, he deserves support from you, time and space and no judgment, when he's dealing with his past. When he's dealing with decisions he's made that have affected your life together, he only deserves these things if he wants to give you what you deserve as well--answers and reassurance, honesty, real attempts at changing and healing... because if he's going to get compassion from you as a partner, he needs to be your partner. Notice I said if he wants to give you those things, he may want to and not be able to, or he may be giving them to you but not really give a shit about it...again these are things that only you know.

that might really be it for now.
SAR


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#58327 - 03/17/04 07:37 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
gryffindor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 131
Loc: St. Charles, Illinois
Dear Sammi,

I am so relieved that you are feeling more like your amazing self again. You really are a community leader. You are far from "common." If it were not for people like yourself, this country would come to a screeching halt. Give yourself a great big hug. You deserve it.

I told you in my last post that I would PM you. Well, I had almost fininshed the PM when bad weather cut the satellite connection. The PM was completely lost. Now, I'm glad I didn't send it because you don't need my suggestion. Your strength of mind and high energy levels are truly outstanding.

As far as Hubby is concerned, if my husband committed a "perp" it would crush me and overwhelm me with shame. The situation would confront me with very strong paradoxical feelings similar to yours. The only difference is that my husband has never been SAed. I think your husband's history of abuse and his gradual internalization of his responsibility for the perpetration stands in his favor. Considering his recent experiences with his mother and sisters, it's reasonable to assume that he's fed up with women right now. I think you are right about his need for some emotional space. It would also be good for you because you need time to devote to yourself. I have to leave now. I'll continue this later.


Lot's of love,
Mary

_________________________
"Where there's a will, there's a way." American Folk Saying

"Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in darkness, I would not have recognized the light." Midrash Tehillim Ch. 22

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#58328 - 03/17/04 08:44 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Sammy
I hope you have time to read all this stuff inbetween all the great work you do for others, I don't know how people like you do it....

But it show's EXACTLY the kind of woman you are, you have principles and you'll fight for them.
And that ain't easy when hubby gets out of line and perps.
All your principles get trashed very rapidly. Here you are, an abuse survivor who's dealing with it, someone who holds the laws and moral principles as something to adhered to - or fought until rightfull change takes place. And suddenly he commits an offence against all of it, not least against your love and marriage.

Quote:
So I geuss I get two messages in this... perhaps it is a situation of both?... but deep down I think of all the years of my therapy and how my belief is that once the line is crossed to perpetrator -- a perpetrator is what is first and foremost, vicitim is is secondary.... am I wrong in that thinking?
So how 'wrong' was he ? - at this point I might upset some people. But is a drunken sexual 'encounter' with a sexually experienced ( maybe precocious ) young girl ( 16 - going on 19 ! ) the same thing as a planned grooming of a younger innocent victim ? It might well be statutory rape, and the law IS there to protect young people, and the law should take due proccess - which I seem to remember it did.
But in the big picture ( Ignoring legal definitions for a moment ), was he guilty of forcefull rape or stupidity ?
I know what he did has no real defence, the point I'm trying to make is how YOU see his offence in relation to your principles and beliefs.

I'm NOT suggesting that you lower them, or that they are too high, they're yours. But how does it all fit in ?
I ask this because of my experience. Shortly after I began therapy my wife found out accidentally that I'd been giving strange men blow-jobs. That's reason enough for most women to change the f****g door locks and engage a lawyer pronto !
Naturally she asked for some kind of 'explanation' - just as you must have asked hubby.
So I explained, and I soon realised that lying like a cheap Chinese watch wasn't the best option, so I told the truth, all of it.
She sat and listened, asked a few questions, and waited for me to finish; then said "that wasn't you, it was your abusers" That was some statement from an educated, moral, sensible woman raised in an Irish Catholic family !

That sounds like the bestest excuse in the whole wide world, but it's the f*****g truth !
I wouldn't have been there in those stinking toilets unless I'd been abused and unable to deal with it up until that time.
And I don't think hubby would have been there either given his abuse. It distorts everything we know about sex.
I had a sex life at home with a very sexy and uninhibited woman that I loved, and still do. So why hang around toilets looking for bj's ?

You ARE right to demand some account of his past behaviour, as well as assurances about his future. And that should also include what he's doing to better himself. Being accountable gives US some kind of framework and responsibility to work with - and god knows we need it sometimes !
But please don't beat him with his past mistakes, I learned to move on by example.
Once I'd told Linda about what I'd done she closed the book on it and moved on, we moved on.
I have no doubt at all that my actions will haunt her, as they do me. But we look forward as much as we can.

That you love your hubby is without doubt, for all your ranting and raving that shines through like a beacon. It's an old cliche but one that makes a lot of sense - "hate the sin, not the sinner"

Take care
Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#58329 - 03/18/04 03:32 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
Wow!! and I mean WOW!!!!
I had one helluva day, just busy stuff you know all that last minute really crunch time stuff to bring together months of work into a semi finale' of fireworks? LOL ---
I had talked with hubby after hours and hours of meetings.... first I had made a date with him so the 2 of us could discuss the perp/victim shit -- no yelling just discuss --- well it couldnt wait as I was preparing to leave his place (he lets me use it for my meetings and storing tons of files etc...) anyway I just read thru the hiding behind the tv and the sad face, and said ok lets go ahead and talk you look like your driving yourself nuts with worry about what I want to talk to you about....
He said yes he wanted that -- I told him and had told him it wasnt anything bad but it was some shit about the SA issues. When I shared that I was trying to figure out if he was a perp or a victim etc... he was releived and said that he thought i was going to tell him to go to hell and he was out of my life forever -- we both sorta laffed about how that must be some sort of a cardinal rule for survivors to be able to jump directly to worse case scenerio or ya cant really belong to the "club"... (ok so our humor is a bit sicko \:D )
The conversation whent very calmly and smooth and he even said that he thinks considering and researching working with a Sex Offender specific Therapist may be the best route -- I told him tho and it just had popped into my head at the time, hey maybe he wont fit that bill but that therapist could direct him to a better support service... I did tell him tho that he was not honoring me by not being consistent going to therapy or group, he said that he felt the addict group for sex was too repetitious and not addressing any real issues so was a waste of time at this point... well i pretty much had to agree with him, but he agreed it is good to maintain it tho as he still needed to address those issues -- i was amazed to see the real rage in his eyes and his body language talking aboaut the pedophile guy in group he said it sets him off really bad and he had quit going cuz this asshole kept going adn it triggered his SA issues real bad then triggered the sex addiction shit real bad hmmm not a helpful cycle....
With Ken's help I think he may just actually make the jump he needs .... and most likely that I NEED to see him make.... yea, its about me too huh?
Scot, your words can not hurt me -- I've already heard the most painful words I could ever hear and those came from hubby -- your honesty and view is always so appreciated and the love that you share with each of here is so tremendous I always ALWAYS look forward to hearing your views.
I am gonna share a short version of his "perp" event. He had been drinking and trying to be "20" again shortly after my diagnosis, his daughters went off to college and he was involved in schooling in which his perp from his childhood would sometimes be in. He spiraled down very quickly, I was struggling to stay alive -- finances were destroyed .... all sorts of stressors, but he kept trying to hang out more with his 20 yr old daugh friends than any guys his age (i've since found out he does not trust any men at ALL), I left town after having pleaded for the last fucking time for my fractured family to get there shit together, the kiddos had convinced him to buy booze for them they all got drunker than shit, he says the next thing he remembers is he woke up to this 20 yr old in his bed on top of him-- he pushed her off -- but she later then went to the hospital filed rape charges. He went to court, was punished and did his time -- it was lowered i think to what is called an aggravated misdemeanor (i may be saying this part wrong) -- anyway he is considered low risk and must list on the sex offender list for 10 yrs.
After he did his jail time (he did nights, had to work to keep health insur in place for me and pay the fines etc.).... he had a complete break down and his boss told him either go ck into the crayola wing or they were gonna send him - he had gotten a therapist to help him deal with his SA thqat had began to creep up on him, the break down was a complete memory of what the fucking bastard did to him --- even i gagged hearing this ---
I'm not sure if what he did was an actual perpetration, by law it was as the 20 yr old was drunk, and he was more than 4 yrs older than her (our girls are not his bio kiddos and i am older than him) any too hoo he was drunk also, no one in the police reports knows how she and he ended up in the same bed or who started what with having sex.... but because she had been penetrated he became the perp (a couple weeks later i ended up with an STD that thru court papers found out that she had and one that she had gotten from someone else ??? ugh!!!) He shared his whole sordid shit aboaut the years of shit he hid from me, the prostitutes teh sex addiction porn blah blah blah.... i packed my suitcase that morning and left.... its been 3 years. My mother is so supportive she told him "WEll we all know how difficult Sam is to live with".... that should fill in the rest of the pic for ya, he told her it was his fault yada yada, but most folks think he is the "Golden boy" and man is that a pedestal hard to knock over!
I'm not sure if he "intended to do the abuse" altho looking back I think there must have been some sort of bent form of grooming by keeping himself around the 20 somethings when he is a 30 something (i'm a 40 something)-- I think he was/is emotionally stuck in the age in which he missed out on maturation due to his abuse -- hence the attraction to the 20 somethings?
I dont think he has totally put himself in his "victims shoes"... I just havent actually heard real "remorse in his voice" , just true honest to god confusion -- his gut reaction from the beginning is that he felt violated by her? adn in the light that i truly think he has experienced sexual abuse by his c**t of a mother i'm not so sure that it may not be too far off base in emotionally feeling violated --- physically tho... HE violated her HE needs to own that with out adding the damn word "but" to any of it in my opinion.
I happen to very much agree he is wrapped in the "poor me syndrome".... a swing of either poor me, or look at how wonderfully smart and successful i am , to isolation?.... and yes I also agree that he is emotionally abusing me, but I cant quite describe it or put my finger on what those behaviours are -- and right now I have been having very limited contact with him so I can think this out...
And consequences -- Hmmm I dont know what consenquences I could present him with? I dont live with him, I dont clean his house, do his laundry, cook, shop nothing -- i dont call him he calls me,... and I am totally dependant upon him for transportation, meds, health insurance, extra cash for my wants and desires-- but i do NOTHING for him -- other than grace him with my precense and listen on occassion? Hmmm there certainly must be more but i am not sure what it is.
and ya know I have not thought about this before you broght it up but it is a good thought....
I do believe that he did not truly "plan" for this perpetration to happen....in that i dotn think he thought this out step by step as in... well if I hang out with sissy's friends i could maybe get XXX alone and bang the shit out of her ... I think he didnt even know what was happening but crossed the line adn didnt even know there truly was a line in the sand at the time?
god i hope i am not bullshitting myself -- either way he is open to Sex Offender specific therapy and that brings about some hope...
so many of you posted good things to me today and have stirred some very good thought processes, i want to respond to them more in this threaad
but i am just beat up worn out and fried --- its sleepy time,
May each of you rest peacefully
I'll respond more tommorow... and I am "Just Sammy" \:D


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#58330 - 03/18/04 10:10 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Wifey1:
I feel so ashamed.... ashamed that I cannot be more of a caring being toward him than I am feeling.
there is goodness in him -- i have felt it and i have seen it.... ashamed i am not being strong enough to want to see this through more.
What about his responsibility to you?

Take care of #1 first. Although he is doing a lot of stuff out of pain, there is a line that must be drawn as far as reacting to pain vs. unacceptable behaviour. PUlling inwards and wanting a lot of "alone time" is acceptable. Abuse or infidelity or drugs/alcohol abuse is not.

I dumped my own fiance a month ago because he crossed that line. His anger problem turned into some pretty vicious verbal abuse and erratic, dangerous behaviour (driving dangerously with me in the car, smashing things).

I would not have taken him back if he had a) continued to blow off his abusive behaviour using his past as an excuse and b) not gone immediately, under his own volition, to see a therapist and continue going (he has gone about 5x since that incident) and c) not worked out a "safety plan" with me when he feels his moods getting to that point. He took the lead on being responsible for ALL of those things which to me was a good sign. If I had to drag him kicking and screaming to a therapist, or if I had to persuade him into a "safety plan" then it would have been pretty obvious that my needs did not count, and for me, thats where I split.

There are lines of appropriate behaviour that are being violated all over the place in your case. Nobody should/could/can put up with infidelity, lack of commitment, abuse, substance abuse, etc. Those are definitely NON starters in any relationship. If you continue to put up with that shit under the guise of "not being good enough, not being caring enough" then you'll slowly but surely lose grip on reality. Substance abuse, depression - or worse will soon ensue. I've been there.

P


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#58331 - 03/18/04 10:27 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by crisispoint:
He needs to see value in others as well. And maybe laying down the law will kick-start him into making the changes HE needs to make.
I love that line....

unfortunately the only way to make changes with someone who is resisting the loving, caring, approach is the "tough love" approach. I have done it with my own father (to limited success) and recently to my fiance (with more success).

Unfortunately if you are in a situation where the only thing in the relatioship is problems, there really is no friendship or love relationship, then also as posted on here, you really are alone. And there's nothing wrong with spending time with others that give you time, love, support, friendship, and away from those - no matter WHO they are (ex husband or whoever) that are not a loving and supportive friend.

I think there is something innate in most women - that someone going through pain just triggers our "mama bear" instinct. Its all I can do some days to not rush out and soothe my fiance when he's down, when he's acting out, to "make it all bettter", to stop his tears, to call out to him when I see him dissociating, to run after him when he has an angry outburst and storms out of the house. I have to stamp that urge down with every fibre in my body sometimes! Its especially hard as I grew up with an abusive, alcoholic depressive father and his sadness, pulling away and anger trigger every damn "abandonment by men" fear that I've got. Its REALLY scary.

I'm slowly learning that a big part of my job in this relationship and in life to be a "strong chick" and live my life for myself, to work through my OWN shit and let him work through his.


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#58332 - 03/18/04 10:51 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Sammy: after reading Lloydy's view and your de>

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#58333 - 03/18/04 11:09 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
Hi All,
I just wanted to finish adding on as so many of you had so many good points and I am just so full of even more questions.
Theo shared this:
Quote:
he seems to be victim and perp, not a survivor, yet. there is a difference, as you well know.
and yes there in lies a HUGE truth -- and mostly he wobbles in what mode he is in. It is even scarey as hell to have thot about this enough to pick up that the mode he is in depends quite often on me, not that I tell him what or how to feel or how to think -- but my own operating mode. I.E. if I am busy in a meeting with a huge amount of stress happening - he'll go off to supposedly stay out of the way, but has this beaten puppy look on his face, it quickly zips into isolation (isolation in a crowd of folks) -- folks will leave I prepare to go to my own space and he becomes clingy like a child not wanting to be left at the babysitters.
When I have to face down my own demons or deal with shitty family he then is this strong protective man that I know is in there is also that way when it comes to helping the elderly folks in our hood and or those in need -- muscle help or auto, technology help -- emotional support he quickly melts and looks to me?....
SAR, I know that early on one of the boundaries set out has been that he must remain active in his therapy none of this start and stop bullshit, I think tho' that maybe (and now perhaps this is my wobble?) that may have been an unrealistic expectation as for me my idea of active therapy is sessions at least once every 2 wks, grp wkly -- this morning rationally I feel as if I need to add some sort of an addendum to that as in: unless a break is needed to rest and regroup then the swirl sits in my gut "however he may use the addendum as an excuse so as not to work therapy"... since I know I can only "request the boundary" and cant force him into anything -- the reality is that while I dont need his house for meetings, I DO need him for meds, transportation, diabetic equipment, etc sounds sad but it seems to come off as some sort of a cash cow situation -- ? I have even kept him at a enough of a distance that he only comes to me when I have been in critical health status --- in attempting to work into a "couples counseling" position I have tried to keep myself open to "dates" that allow for being able to even tolerate being in the same air space as him --- its not always that bad, but it is an example.
Scot & Gang,
about suicide: Is this type of intrusive thinking ever anything that goes away? I have in my younger years tried this, during the active abuse and the initial memory floods the urges were the strongest. Also when faced with high stress or emotional blows it seems as if the suicide thoughts (plans ideations) are the strongest. I thought I had myself in a place where this was/ is no longer a problem -- apparently not. I know the reaction is not exclusive to survivors, but can anyone explain why it seems to be almost an instinctive reaction to any sort of pain/ trauma? disruption in daily life (not sure i am explaining this right) I've gone from daily thinking of it (a safty net?) to being thought and urge free of this for some time, I am not quite sure what changed this other than a spiritual awakening for lack of better explanation during a surgery -- but am not comfortable that this thought process may become the norm again.
Interestingly enough, hubby has said he has only thot of suicide when he knew he had acted out with the perping issue... and a girlfriend of mine has said that has never been an option or a thought for her (she suffered an nutball abusive mom). Is it the norm? am I the abnorm in this?
Quote:
you shouldn't have to feel that your anger about this hurt is biased or a result of your own abuse.
SAR, holey bat smack batman!! I never in my wildest considered this! But how TRUE!-- at times i have wondered if i have "been taken advantage of" (for lack of better words) BECAUSE of my survivor status, how many times have i heard him say "You KNOW how XXX -- and being more embroiled in the giving compassion than recieving well duh? I missed the boat eh? -- ANYONE would feel pain in this survivor or not! and be ENTITLED to it!

Quote:
Dishonesty and breaking promises are big BIG issues for me--I grew up in an place where promises were made and broken all the time and we were expected to "cover up" our problems in public, which I saw as dishonesty. Now my boyfriend knows about me and lying, and he knows why. So when I say the lies hurt me more than anything else he did, it means something special to me, but is that a statement that only another survivor would make? I don't think so. Is it only because of my own abuse history that I tell him that? Probably not. Was it irrational anger over feeling victimized again that made me tell him that everyone, including him, who's ever been close to me has let me down? Well, yes. And it was not really right of me to say. But that last one is about me and my expectations of others and of him as a partner. I've decided to give him a second chance, but I'm also better than I was before about being clear about my expectations, and he needs to know about me that I don't easily forgive a broken promise and I probably won't again. If you feel like you need to keep your problems with his problems on a low level to get your "survivor bias" out of the picture, then keep it low but don't dismiss all your hurt like this.
Lies, and Trust -- this seems to be a common thread intwined in this stuff called surviving/partnering --- and it is a HUGE issue, this is something that personally I would like to overcome for my self -- to become trusting of others, but I too cannot stand a lier -- and I do hold grudges (maybe thats not the right word) I never trust someone who I know has lied to me. I dont set them up or "test" them, but if I find out someone has lied its zap they are gone from my mental/ emotional list of mattering in anything -- since hubby has/had a huge problem with lying (i've learned now much more about that aspect of lying for survivors/victims) I really dont think that I will ever trust him again. I think I have resolved myself to just some sort of acceptance that no matter what he says I wont feel as if he is trustworthy but it is now a point of "i can live with it?". I have been blunt with him about this, and he knows the trust is probably not something that will ever come completely around for him (why he would tolerate that shit from me is beyond me)-- but I geuss it is a point of agreeance for us? I certainly dont "beat him up" for crap or scramble around or set him to to catch a lie --- the energy inserted to that would kill me, but perhaps its a lack of respect that is not given to him? knowing is one thing feeling is another -- and i just aint feelin it -- not sure if i will and quite frankly if i never do it doesnt scrape my ass either.
Quote:
If you feel like you need to keep your problems with his problems on a low level to get your "survivor bias" out of the picture, then keep it low but don't dismiss all your hurt like this.
I know that i go thru a "process" of sorts with my hurts -- i am trying to change that cycle that had stopped working a long time ago -- yet in this i dont want to reinvent the wheel either -- i've added a new tool to this process, I have been blessed with someone who is not afraid to physically "hold me", (i'm not really much of a cryer) but the physical touch seems to be very healing (our poster Don (?) that does massage may be able to explain this more -- however this person is safe for this hmmmm "hug therapy?" -- i dont have to talk, but just concentrate on breathing and feeling safe -- tho I have only been at this a few short months it does seem to have opened doors emotionally for me (i can now actually formulate and ASK for specific things for help)... it is very hard tho to walk away from hubby once he has been triggered or i have been triggered to keep the survivor issues out of the way *** the difficulty I am finding in all of this is that I truly believe we have operated our relationship (17 yrs or so) as victim/survivor/parent etc -- until we actively are in couples counseling we will continue to bump along with the same damn tools -- and my stance is this maybe i am wrong but its my feelings in this: HE is the one who crossed the boundaries, HE is the one who fucked up and didnt get therapy long ago tho he knew it was available, I have been the one who has bitten the bullet to work on me etc.... so HE needs to actively SHOW me that putting our relationship in either an active healing status or flush it completely -- and I dont think its about avoidance or blame, I know there is a lot of anger attached to this thought process -- and I am sick of being in limbo. the whole shit or get off the pot.
And Dave, this is a good thinking point please bear with me as I muddle thru this.
Quote:
But in the big picture ( Ignoring legal definitions for a moment ), was he guilty of forcefull rape or stupidity ?
I know what he did has no real defence, the point I'm trying to make is how YOU see his offence in relation to your principles and beliefs.
The only thing I know re: rape is that NO one in the police statements etc said that it was "forcefull" and this I have thot about so much so much so much -- in 17 years of being in a sexual relationship with him he has NEVER ONCE exhibited any type of even a HINT of force or violence, in fact he would be considered the passive partner when it comes it sex -- the part that throws me is the acting out with visits to prostitutes , he shared that he was even passive in those encounters (what i consider passive as he laid there not moving), and then the compulsive masterbation i dont think that masturbation would be considered aggressive? or is it?
I have to agree he is guilt of stupidity but then again i am feeling rather mean and pissed off too -- rationally i know he was facing and dealing with much traumatic loss -- kiddos off to college, wife dying, etc... enough to drive any sane man/woman into an abyss but NOT an excuse just an understandign of his stupidity -- last night in our discussion he shared that he really believed that when I had left (on a dr ordered "vacation") he felt our marriage was completely over, so in light of that thinking tho he wasnt actively seeking contact with another female he would have acted on it if it presented itself but he stressed this part to me "I was in no way seeking a YOUNG female" --- I didnt get the feeling that this was an excuse but rather a real truth -- adn that in itself spins me back to in his mind set if he was "frozen" at his maturity level from his abuse, did he feel or believe that a 19/ 20 something was his peer age?
Quote:
You ARE right to demand some account of his past behaviour, as well as assurances about his future. And that should also include what he's doing to better himself. Being accountable gives US some kind of framework and responsibility to work with - and god knows we need it sometimes !
Thank you for that validation... and I too believe that at some point he has the right to hold me accountable also in my behavior -- when he can figure out and articulate exactly WHat in the hell he needs or wants me to do to actively support him beyond the endless hugs etc....
Quote:
But please don't beat him with his past mistakes, I learned to move on by example.
Once I'd told Linda about what I'd done she closed the book on it and moved on, we moved on.
I have no doubt at all that my actions will haunt her, as they do me. But we look forward as much as we can.
I dont beat him up about it -- I dont disclose this to anyone who hastn made the "list of approval"... and yes it is about learning by example.... I am not sure I can ever close the book on this pain (mabye i will get there?)... and yes the "Actions do Haunt us" -- but I still hand those ghosts over to the son of a bitches that injured us in the beginning.....
I said to him last night that even tho he gets so fucking pissed off at that guy in his group about the pedophelia thing... even he had someone somewhere who injured him most likely --- that I do have it in me to offer a twig of understanding and hope that he could become truly remorseful and never harm again .... that his pain has been expressed by shedding that pain upon yet another -- just as hubby has shed his pain on those around him, we must work somehow to make the pains into some form of positive -- and it is totally ok to be so pissed off and angry right now to not be able to give that understanding.... even if we dont ever get "there" , others can be in a position to help the ones who injure, we must work in some way to break this horiffic cycle....even if it is souly based on healing our own personal hurts....
**ok now i am getting preachy so i am gonna shutup here**
Again I want to express a heartfelt Thank You for those of you who have had the guts to read this, share your love and support for a subject that so easily could have been ostracized and tossed away as if he and I have no meaning placing it into a catagory of all perps deserve pain no help -- You're all a brave bunch.... and Thank you for your respect.
Peace to Each of Us, Sammy

ps how do i change my name on the site from wifey1? can i edit that?


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#58334 - 03/18/04 04:50 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
Sammi,

Ah, another hard one. Right in the middle of a strong emotional downturn for me.

But, you demand honesty, so, for me, it never goes away completely. Now, for example, I'm scared. Scared because I realized that I'm not afraid of dying and I don't even fear Hell because there's NOTHING that Satan could throw at me that's worse than what I'm living.

It's not abnormal, sadly. At least not for me.

Worst still, I feel like I am damned. Damned to wonder the Earth until Christ himself judges me and throws me into Hell. Doing what I do, teaching, trying to help people here when I'm on an emotional uptick, etc., makes it bearable, but still all I wish for now is to be a "sin eater" for all those affected by abuse and it's aftermath. God can send me to Hell for all I care. As I said, it can't be worse than what I live with now. But I wish, since I've done something to earn my damnation ahead of schedule, he'd just hang your (everyone here and elsewhere who've suffered this thing) pain on me and free you of it before I go. A martyrdom complex, but it's all I feel good for.

So, with all that negative imagery on my back, why do I resist?

Because I've lived the result of suicide. Friends and brothers here have killed themsleves and I see the kind of pain they left behind. Damned if I'm going to do that to other people. Damned if 'll leave THAT as my legacy.

I've learned to push those thoughts away because, despite being damned, I know that I'm a good person and I have a destiny here. I can help others, I can be the mercy of God they look for. I can serve His will because it's not my style to throw it away on such a simple thing as my own suffering. I have so much more to do, and that makes my life worth living.

When that fails, and there are days like today that they do, I've made a safety plan. I TALK it out here and with my therapist. If I do feel that an attempt is inevitable, I'm going to the hospital and get the help I deserve. A backup plan is key for me because I know there's a last resort if it gets to be too frigging bad.

Now, I didn't mean to be all negative, but it's also a good thing to see that there is NO recurring thoughts (which are normal) that is strong enough to make a good person like yourself take the last step. You're not abnormal. I think in your case, like mine, it's better to redirect the energy when the thoughts come a knocking. That's what I do.

Sammi, I'm glad you're changing your screename. Perhaps "BriarRose" would be a good one too, for you are a sleeping beauty just come awake. And Lord, what you will do for the world when it all gets rolling, kiddo! I'm excited to see that happen! \:D

Peace and love, Sammi. Whenever you need, I'm here.

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#58335 - 03/18/04 06:57 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Sammy
Unfortunately it's not possible to change your name - unless Fred has some magic, but I can't do it through the control panel.


Quote:
the difficulty I am finding in all of this is that I truly believe we have operated our relationship (17 yrs or so) as victim/survivor/parent etc --
Everything changes after a big trauma, and you and hubby have had more than your share.
Both of you carried the childhood traumas with you, I don't know when you shared them but they certainly moulded you into the people you were 17 years back.
Then along come illness, and hubby's sex offence.
Both of those things will change you, and the the way the other parter reacts and thinks about you.

I'm a completely different person to the one I was 7 or 8 years ago, and before that as well.
Linda's changed because of her thinking about the way I am. Luckily we both think the changes are for the better, but they do take some adjusting to.
What irritated the hell out of her before doesn't do it now, but as sure as hell something else does :rolleyes:

We do discuss the past, it's inescapable, and the subject of my acting out does crop up sometimes.
But our talks tend to be future based, we talk of our wishes and aims as much as we can.

I get a feeling that your almost right in what I've just quoted. - "victim/survivor/parent" I would say you fit all three, but as Scot or Theo ( I think ) pointed out has hubby reached "survivor" yet ?

So as you've changed, has he kept up ? not the best analogy, but you get my meaning.
You suspect that he's somehow trapped at '20 something' - and that's not as stupid as it sounds.
And you might even relate to this yourself as a survivor ? - if the childhood trauma affects us at a particular time in a certain way we withdraw or are unable to live a 'normal' life, so we miss out on a period that should be influential and formitive to us.
Then we deal with the childhood trauma somehow, we use whatever coping, survival mechanisms we have and start to live a 'normal' life. Or at least an act of a 'normal' life. We're surviving on dysfunctional coping mechanisms ( acting out etc ) and fantasising - craving - missing the lost years.
For me it was 11 to 17 while I was away at a single sex boarding school and being abused, and I do have some issues about those years even now. I find girls of that age very attractive. Wrong I know, and I would never act upon it, look for young girl porn or even react to their presence around me.
But even though I deal with this issue in therapy, and talk to Linda about it, there is some kind of neurologial switch that just goes 'click' - I've learned to switch it straight off.
But I didn't talk to girls untill I was nearly 18 and got a car ! at primary school we were segregated, I lived out in the country, then boarding school. My chat up lines had to be heard to be believed \:\(


So I think you're doing all the right things Sammy, and I think the best thing you can do is get him out of that group he's in. I go to a group and come away feeling better - that's what they're SUPPOSED to do !

I know we all say "never drag a Survivor kicking and screaming into help or therapy" and "You can't do the healing for us" - Nowhere in there does it mention "ARSE-KICKING" That comes under two headings "Marital Rights" and "Support" - I know that's true - Linda told me.

Dave ;\)

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#58336 - 03/19/04 02:17 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
gryffindor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 131
Loc: St. Charles, Illinois
the kiddos had convinced him to buy booze for them they all got drunker than shit
__________________________________________________

Here was the big, big error. Buying the liquor for his daughters and their friends and then getting drunk with them is just about the most irresponsible and, yes, stupid thing your husband and your daughters' step-father could have done. Everything that followed could just about have been predicted.


__________________________________________________

he says the next thing he remembers is he woke up to this 20 yr old in his bed on top of him-- he pushed her off -- but she later then went to the hospital filed rape charges.
__________________________________________________


This is not what I call rape. It's an act of shameful stupidity but not rape. Putting your husband on the Sex Offenders List for ten years is a case of the state going overboard in its attempt to protect the public. Your husband's ambiguous feelings about just who was the victim and who was the perpetrator in his case is very understandable in my view.

Some states are really getting outrageously up-tight when it comes to defining sexual offenders. I've read of a couple of cases in my local newspaper where it clearly appeared that the young woman involved was equally responsible with the young man for the sexual encounter. Yet the man was confronted with a prison sentence, and the woman got off with nothing but parental lecture, if that.

My state legislature recently passed a law that says if one of the parties to a sexual encounter (a kiss on the cheek could be defined as a sexual encounter) says "no" or "stop" one time, and the other party does not stop (a kiss on the other cheek in an effort to cheer up a girl in a bad mood), a sex crime has been committed. A lot of high school boys could find themselves in jail because of this law. All a girl has to do is lie. Which has happened. A woman recently came forward and confessed that she perjured herself in testifying that a particular man had raped her. The man, who had already served several years in state prison, was immediately released. Who will compensate this innocent man for the torment and anxiety he must have felt, as well as his loss of freedom? And, let's never forget that he was very probably raped as soon as he got to prison.

Your husband has been punished more than enough already for this tragedy. I hope you can find it in yourself to forgive him. I really believe you would like to because you love him so much.

Now to a happier subject. You love roses. So do I. You want a new name. Give yourself a rose name. Jackson & Perkins is holding a contest drawing to win a trip to its rose farm and name a new rose it's going to introduce, next year I think. Imagine that you are a new rose and need a name. What name would you give yourself? Have you visited the American Rose Society website (ars.com or .org)? There is tons of information about just about all of the roses known in the world. Have fun with this Sammi. Keep well.

Mary

_________________________
"Where there's a will, there's a way." American Folk Saying

"Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in darkness, I would not have recognized the light." Midrash Tehillim Ch. 22

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#58337 - 03/19/04 05:50 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Sammy,
Quote:
while I dont need his house for meetings, I DO need him for meds, transportation, diabetic equipment, etc sounds sad but it seems to come off as some sort of a cash cow situation -- ? I have even kept him at a enough of a distance that he only comes to me when I have been in critical health status
I've been doing my own thinking about my version of this statement--during the worst of it, would I have stayed with my boyfriend if the kids weren't so little, if I wasn't trying to go back to school, if I'd had my own bank account or anywhere else to live-- is it wrong of me to say that love kept us together when maybe it was just fear and economics?

Well. I do think that maybe it was easier for me to say "fear and economics" because those are good, solid, practical reasons for deciding to remain in an otherwise terrible situation. Even if the answer was partially that, and partially love all along. Maybe at his worst, we kept each other at a distance, so that we could call it "need" because at the time, "love" just sounded frrrreaking pathetic. And I don't like being pathetic (although I was and would have admitted it at the time).

I do also know that while the bar is higher for me now than it was then, even then, I had some level of shit I wouldn't tolerate--there were certain lines he never crossed--there were things he could have done that would have made me happy to live in a box before I'd speak to him again and he didn't do any of them.

And even though it looks like he had all of what I needed and I had none of what he needed--even at the time I must have been some influence on his life--I don't think he would have done much except keep living with his evil parents and chat up girls on the intenet until the end of his days without the responsibility of wife and family--and I think that even at his sickest he understood that and that some part of his taking responsibility for us was a way of keeping himself free from the consequences of freedom (if that makes sense)...

I'm still working this one out so I'm going to have to leave it open.

SAR


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