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#58309 - 03/15/04 11:52 PM Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
HI all,
I know I havent had much to contribute very often -- mostly I am just at a plain old loss as to what to say or if anything I do have to say is worth a hill of beans....
Hubby and I are at such a freaking stand still in our relationship it isnt even something I can quite put into words.
We arent fighting, we arent silent, we arent anything... yet inside deep inside I know its not right... its not even a case of avoidance.
Right this moment I can tell you I am struggeling again to not act on killing myself --- god the drugs are there on the cabinet shelf, tellign me there is enough to do the sjob.... but what for?
Its a good thing my nature is more to procrastinate, I have beocme probably the greatest actor in this shit called life.
One moment I cant live without him the next I wish to hell he was dead.
The relationhsop has not moved forward -- he is doign his normal behavior for rthe last 17 years of our mariage, something that even I knew would havppen... I know that httere is litterally notheing I can do to make changes in him or anyhone around me... but changing myself is even more moot....
Oh on the outside I can say taht I can undersrtand, identify and be compassionate with his feelings of surviving the horrific abuses from his childhood -- but I have no feelings of honor or pride in his dealign with or rarther lack of dealting with his abuse issues. I see him as weak and avoiding what is clearly issues he could resolve without causing more pain to me or those aeround him ---- he whines is hateful to others and then puffs himself up to be somekind of a fucking super star in shit taht means notheing int he end..... a sham ---
he said to me that he wanted to start couples counseling. weeks and monts pass by, no movement -- he mentioned it in passing, my response, well hell i htot if he was serious he would make the calland do the research, schedule the appt --- not my job as far as i aws concerned. being the wife who got fucked over with an std and his criminal act , that only my disease and poor health situation kept his stupid ass out of jail -- i was the easy out from that situation.
oh yea my heart vroke for a short while as i too know the pain of rape/s --
lame attempts, he does this stupid short bursts of goiagn to therapy or to group for sex addicts then it wanes into nothing again, until he must pick up some sense that i am not involved in whether he works his issues ornot... then back to the drawing board again..... short bursts of going.... this past sun he went to group therapyu again, why? only because just like the last time the facillitator called to ck on him, like he can only go if someone shows an interest in him making him feel "special" enough to be cared about to grace them with his precense.
he came home rightfgully pissed off agiant that the pedophile was in gropu again stating "i am helpless against molesting my daughter"
hubby slips in and out of these "modes" where he is one time completely takaing repsponsibility for fucking up by having sex with his own daughters drinking buddy, then criticizes the shit out of the guy who molested his daughter? what gives?.... one time its not his fauilt the next time it is his fault? ---
the whole time he says he wants nothing more than for me to move home, the next breath he tells me he has resigned himself to the fact that I am never goign to move home?
does he want me or not? -- i try to hang on to me somewhere in this....
i'm not fignding much of me to hang onto--- i've tried to be a good person, to work my own issues somewhere in here and take responsibility for them... to busy myself beyond this whole stupid survivor life... i am more much more than a survivor -- a vibrant person who has much to offer... but what for?
i'm tired, and need someonw to give back to me somewhere ---
i have a male friend who has helped me recover from my near death experience this past summer -- i am losign tyhis battle baddly and even he has weaned away...
is there no one in this life who can commit to seeing me to the endf of my life?
forget about some spiritual god bullshit --- it aint happening for me ....
i feel so fucking lonely and am using dope agian -- decided it was easier to be foggd out until i can die.... i just dotn have it any mroe and those who usupposely care around me have shown they dont have time to care ..... i just dont have the guts to do the final thing...... i'm so fucking depressedd .......
he hasnt been worth the work or the fight if he wont help himself..... i've tried to help myself abut i cant do this bullshit diseawse by myself either....
i wish those who promised to help me kill myself whould have the balls t o do just ahty....
i know this doesnt make mluch sense..... none of it doesl
if it had to do it all over again i would choose to run from everyone and be a money hungry bitch so i could haved spent thse past few days on teh beach drunk and stoned so i could ber washe dout the sea.....
its justnot worth any ofit not worth the pain the memories, the t4ears the lies the betryals.....


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#58310 - 03/16/04 12:23 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
kolisha54 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 475
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
So sorry you are in such pain!!!

First thing: get yourself a new name. "Wifey" is just not healthy at this point.

2nd thing: substance abuse & numbing are indicative of a severe failure of self-love. Whose judgmental, sarcastic voice have you internalized??? Time to vomit this out once & for all!

3rd thing: find some time to give yourself the gift of creativity. Getting outside yourself & the stuffiness of abuse would be like a breath of fresh air. The best books are written by Julia Cameron... Take yourself out on an "artist date" the way she recommends.

4th thing: try to learn kindness. Deep inside of you there is a sweet & innocent young girl who is still curious & shy about the world around her....

5th thing: dump the jerk!

6th thing: sorry I called him a jerk....

Hugs,

_________________________
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now... when? --Hillel

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#58311 - 03/16/04 12:52 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
theo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 1117
at this point, sammi, kolisha's observation is right on target. call a duck a duck. i remember being there with you when you were going through some of this a few months ago.

i know that road you are on. i lived it for two straight years 24/7. my fog was my favorite porter. you reached out to me when i was going through some really rough things several months ago and it was in large part your contribution in pm's and steadfast friendship that helped me put that episode of mine in a better perspective, relative to the forum here.

there is no translation of his behavior. before, i was able to see a lot of similarities between him and i but now the similarities have ceased. i try to place myself in his shoes. i can see some of the behavior and the rationale he would be using but in the end, it is his choice to avoid what needs to be done. i am going through two major episodes of flashback hell myself in the last three days and struggling with their repercussions and failing here and there...but the one thing i would not do is turn my back on the one i love. i am really trying to put myself in his shoes so i could give you some kind of insight as to why he is doing what he is doing, but i cannot get there. i think the real difference, sammi, is that he simply gave up.

i have been really worried about you and have wondered how you were doing and how you were recovering from the latest hospital stay of a few months ago. men make mistakes, but the difference in being a man and being a schmuck is that the real man keeps trying, no matter how painful it is...i know, it hurts like nothing i ever known before, yet i am still looking toward that horizon i talk about so often. it hurt so much when my former did what she did to me and i hurt for so long just waiting and praying she would come back. i was actively suicidal once, and passively suicidal for two years before i finally accepted it was over. i was then able to get on with my shattered life and lady theo came into it to show me what living was really all about. you are not alone, sammi. the moment you picked up that keyboard you touched a friend. i am not at your side physically, but i have been there with you ever since you reached out to me, a stranger, and shared your journey to help me. i am here, sammi, whenever you need me, and lady theo is here as well, plus the people whom you touched in your effort to be a human being. you are not alone, my friend.

_________________________
journey well,
theo dewolfe

- It is gift, and gift will find its way
- I inherit through my choice. I build through my affirmation. It is through my freedom that I nurture, or fade into autonomy
- I was not given to serve life, but to embrace it

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#58312 - 03/16/04 01:39 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
gryffindor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 131
Loc: St. Charles, Illinois
Wifey,

You are a lot more than a wife. You have an identity other than one which defines you only in relationship to the man you are married to or to any other man. You need to find that girl/woman and love her. She's you. You need attention from yourself. You need to take care of you. The health of your body, mind, and soul cries out for it because they are starving. Nurture yourself.

Your husband is doing the best he can for himself in his own way. Let him go. You can't arrange his life for him, go to therapy for him, diagnose his problems, cure him or explain him to himself. He must survive under his own management. It's the only way he will ever learn to be entirely responsible for himself and his behavior. His pain is his responsibility. Your pain is yours.

Right now you need to focus all of your energy, love, and care on yourself. I've been where you are now. At the time, I couldn't see any future except emptyness. I didn't feel like there was any point to my life. I didn't end it because I knew that if I did, it would hurt my daughter horribly. She would inherit my pain and make it her own just as I made my mother's pain my own. You can ride this bad period out. The lows eventually pass. While it's going on try to do something that will distract your attention from your bad feelings even if it is watching tv all day. Other possibilities are spending time at the library or a bookstore, window shopping/real shopping, reading anything -- books, magazines, the National Enquirer, surfing the internet, taking walks -- arts and/or crafts. I buy art design books at Borders and color the pictures with colored art pencils. When the weather is good, I garden. Lots of people keep journals. (Check out livejournal.com). Other people write poetry, short stories, novels, self-help and inspirational books, whatever. Still others become deeply involved in the religion of their choice. There are millions of possibilities. The only limitations are your personal preferences, health, and strength.

I know that you have kept yourself in good shape in spite of having cardiovascular disease. You can return to your good habits and throw the drugs out. In the long run, drugs make things worse for you and your heart. Think of how hard that heart works for you. You and your heart are very tired. It's time for you to stop thinking and worrying about everyone except yourself. It's your turn now. You are the most important person in your world. Please don't let yourself down.

Lots of love,
Mary

_________________________
"Where there's a will, there's a way." American Folk Saying

"Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in darkness, I would not have recognized the light." Midrash Tehillim Ch. 22

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#58313 - 03/16/04 01:50 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
I feel so ashamed.... ashamed that I cannot be more of a caring being toward him than I am feeling.
there is goodness in him -- i have felt it and i have seen it.... ashamed i am not being strong enough to want to see this through more.
ashamed and embarrassed at myself for not being the strong person that i present to those around me.
inside i feel so much hate and confusion for so much in my life and in his too --
what the fuck kind of a person am i who can know so intimately what it is he struggles with
the nightmares of torture over and over of his own abuse -- the torture of his horrific c**t of a supposed mother, his struggle to gain a sense of self.... all mirroring of me and my own self
is it true that two survivors cannot ever make a go of a long term relationship?
i am so frightened all the time.... of everything -- noises, fear of letting down my kiddos,... embarrassed to have dreams and wishes that i never was born, that i never gave birth that i never allowed myself to fake a sense of trust in anyone
then the overwhelming urges to have sex --- and not just loving sex... but wanting to desperately be choked during sex.... hurt, hair pulled and slammed and pinched and hit
to strike back at him when he wants to reach out to me....
i got angry at my own therapist and quit going to see him -- he too became to "bossy" telling me that I should do XXX -- as if it was some threat to get over my sorry ass self and get over it -- that i had made my bed and now must lie in it....
i know some where in the back of this distorted thinking that i could analyze the shit out of myself and understand with reason WHY i am feeling, doing the things behaviours that i have been doing....
i geuss part of me is screaming for attention ? not attention so much but HELP... help because i am so fucking tired of being alone
alone in the process of surviving and trying to change what i know is so fuckign wrong in my life
i dont want to face down my kiddos and tell them i think their "daddy" is a hopeless son of a bitch who is never gonna grow up and be the man he should be
and then guilt overwhelms me... what the fuck kind of a bitch am i to place those kinds of expectations on a man boy who has been so injured
at what point or is there a point that i give up and do the unthinkable? abandon a co survivor?
i have tried to pace myself to care for me along the way... to allow him room to grow and heal as he needs for his own self --- he much deserves that same respect as much as i do
its so fucking painful
i need to be wrapped in arms that are so willing to be strong and hold me and protect me against myself ---- and i dont knwo where to find it?
i know i am hurting myself doping up at this point but i dotn feel as if anyone has been listening either --- what options do i have left?
this is no way to live... i just dotn have the energy anymore to fight for me or for him
he doesnt deserve to be abandoned anymroe than any survivor does
is it too much for two partners to be survivors togehter?
i did activily seek ways to kill myself on the web tonight and it is scarey to realize that there are sites that actually list ways to commit suicide in detail stelp by step.... and in the end i found a site aobut a set of parents who wrote about there son who had been raped who ended ujp committing suicide -- god my heart breaks for them.....
do i continue to try? amd i not giving him the room he needs to heal thru this? is it my responsiblity to push him to find support group for folks who are losing family or partners to a shitty long death?...
theln i get so angry at knowing that all the work i did tryingt be a survivor rather than a victim and it feels all for notheirng..... god i am so fucking sad
am i not being fair to him?
am i not giving him the fair amount of time he needs to heal from his own pain, that makes me a bad partner....
its allso twisted ----
Ken singer if you see this can you helpl me? can you tell me is he worth this pain inthe end? can he be saved? will he break and re commit? wehat is his healign process when h4e is a survivor and a perpetrator all in one?
is he truly a perpetrator too? i want a hard and fast answer to that... if he is definetly a perpetrator is he worth throwing away? and if i do that how in the fuck do i move on and die without support?
i have no parents to suppot me to do this -- the docs dont care anymore ... my sibs haver th4eir own shit to deal with my girls need to be spared as much pain as possible....
i am so wiped in the inside --- will this pass?
i keep myself involved in volunteer activities, but the price i pay is my health degrading quicker....
i feel so swirled in such a pile of shit
i know he has qualities worth hangin on to to work on and improve, ... but how do we / or i prioritize them to know if the outcome is worth this horrible struggles of contemplating tghe god damn suircide shit again
will i always struggle with wanteing ot kill myself?.... i can fake it for awhile but i am nmot sure how mluch longer
help me osmeone.... i dont know where else to go.
the female survivor sites hate men,.... lthey dont understand or have the room to comprehend he carries pain also....
am i just a fucking sap and need to choose to be a sap or is it black and wehite in choice?
i havent cried so much but it is there and who is tfhere or here to hear my tears and pain
why does eveyrone leavle?
why do people make god damn promises they cant keep:?
i dotn want to really kill myself... but i dont know what to do....
how do i kick him out of my life when to live i am desperately in need of his health insureance to live?
do i give that up and suffer a slower death? or do i just do the deed and not have to decide anymroe?
and i am Wifey1..... i have been a good Wifey and know this and a good mommy.....
i dont knwo what claim to me i could identify with i have never had a name of my own chosen by me just for me
altho some folks have recently dubbed me a community leader.... but what community do i lead?
after all -- base root would be "common" ---
so mayabe i am jlust common


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#58314 - 03/16/04 10:07 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
Sister,

You aren't a sap. You love someone and you see they're in need. It's easy to ignore your own pain (TRUST me on this one!) when you see someone else in pain.

You are also not "common." You are a unique child of the universe. There's only one of you. You have a caring heart and a decency that a lot of people don't have. So, to me, you're anything, ANYTHING, but "common."

Unfortunately, I see in your husband a version of me that I'm trying to correct. He may be so deep in his own pain that he doesn't, or can't, reach out beyond his own needs. And while this is normal, he seems to be beyond seeing you and your kids as having needs as well. That is toxic and it is unhealthy for you.

Trying to care for him also seems to have robbed you of your own identity and sense of need. An yes, it's okay to need from him as well as help him. Sister, you need to be healthy yourself and for yourself, as well as for your kids. He may not be the best thing for you.

Tired of being alone? I hate to say it, but it sounds like you are alone, and he needs to be made aware that he has to, HAS TO, reach out to you. He has to make this effort for you and the kids and you WILL NOT tolerate being held as a second-class citizen just because he is recovering from his own abuse.

He needs to see value in others as well. And maybe laying down the law will kick-start him into making the changes HE needs to make.

And it will increase your value, in his eyes and more importantly yours, as the caring, thinking woman we KNOW you are.

Please consider this carefully. And whatever you do, I care about you, my sister. You'll always have an identity, and value, with me and us.

Peace and love,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#58315 - 03/16/04 12:47 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Pollyanna Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 211
Loc: Missouri
(((((((((Sammy)))))))))

Sounds like your "bucket is empty". This is a great place to start filling it back up. You are cared about, understood, and not alone.

You ARE the strong person you have presented to others. You would not have come this far otherwise. Everyone needs a break from so much stress sometimes, and it doesn't mean you are weak or bad, or not compassionate in any way. the whole load is not supposed to be yours to carry.

You have seen good in him, and I'm sure it IS there. He definitely needs help, but for some reason, he just can't DO it right now. Only the guys here could explain that. You've tried really hard to understand him as well as yourself. That is a big load to carry, and an admirable thing, but right now, maybe it's a good idea to take care of yourself for awhile. You can't hold someone else up when you are flat on your back. Your girls need you.

I know you want all this to just stop, but the "s word" is not an option, as the guys here have said so many times. There are good things ahead, even if you can't see them right now. It is worth it.

Hugs,

Lynn

_________________________
"Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up."

Anne Lamott

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#58316 - 03/16/04 01:20 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Sammy

I know the feeling of thinking that others are "weak" for avoiding their easily-solved problems or for needing lots of support... mostly this feeling isn't about them though, it's about me... it's not anger AT them, it's anger FOR me... the flip side of the "he is weak, he's not doing anything" issue is the one about myself, the one that goes, "And look at all the stuff I've done, I managed to cope with this and that and HIS shit on top of it, and no one was checking on me, I just did it..."

Well you know what, you can be angry about that all on its own, what's more, you deserve to be proud of it and you deserve some credit for it. I think sometimes the anger at the other person comes from feeling that there's no credit for all that you've done, and you know just because you did it doesn't mean it's not hard, it doesn't mean that just anyone can do it, there are lots of people who can't do it and you are not one of them.

For a long time I thought I was nothing special, anything I did, even the really tough things, were just things that anyone could do if they wanted to badly enough. I wasn't any more patient, brave, loving, intelligent, etc. than anyone else, I just did what the situation required. Because I couldn't see what was good in myself, I saw a lack of what was good in myself as a weakness in others. Really they were doing okay, and I was doing much better than okay, but I just couldn't believe that about myself.

But there really is no meaning in those words outside of actions, that is what I'm figuring out. If I am being brave and loving, then I AM brave and loving. And YOU ARE brave, and loving. You are still those things even when you feel ashamed and frightened.

I wish I had answers for you. I wish I could tell you if there's hope for your relationship or your husband. I do want to tell you that hope or no hope, it hasn't been for nothing. Just because you've gone above and beyond for your husband and kids and community, and not for yourself, doesn't mean that you haven't gone above and beyond. I haven't chosen much about myself (who has?) but I've proud of what I've done with myself.

peace
SAR


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#58317 - 03/16/04 07:17 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Sammi
I just saw "Wifey1" on the forum and thought "Sammi's back, great !" - but nothing could have prepared me for what you've just written.

What's the answer ? f****d if I know ! - the answers have to be yours.
I would suggest that you get out of it all for a while if you can, just long enough to get yourself grounded again and think clearly. Maybe that's not practical ? so keep you distance from hubby for a while. Tell him to stay away until YOU'VE had a chance to think. Don't fight and rant, it's doing you no good is it ?

What you need to do is THINK, not fight. Only then can you hope to make the right decisions, whatever they might be.
It's clear there's something there between you and hubby, but is enough any more ? Tough call, but is the balance of grief and hassle worth what's left between you ? Sometimes being alone isn't as scary as we think.

Keep ranting at us Sammi, we don't mind because we've been ranted at by professionals before now, oh - I forgot that WAS you the last time you were here! ;\)

Take care of yourself, because you're the most important person in your life.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#58318 - 03/16/04 10:48 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5777
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Sammi:
You wrote:
Quote:
is he worth this pain inthe end? can he be saved? will he break and re commit? wehat is his healign process when h4e is a survivor and a perpetrator all in one?
is he truly a perpetrator too? i want a hard and fast answer to that... if he is definetly a perpetrator is he worth throwing away? and if i do that how in the fuck do i move on and die without support?
A lot of perpetrators (but not all) were victimized. "Can he be saved?" Probably, but he needs to want to change. If he doesn't, he won't.

If he thinks what he did was no big deal or he did not cause harm, or that he is not going to do it again without the right help, he is at greater risk to do it again. He needs sex offender-sepcific treatment from someone who knows about this and is experienced. If you pm me with your location, I will get some names for you.

One way you can "move on and die without support" is perhaps to think of yourself as Sammi rather than Wifey. In other words, as an individual rather than as an extension of him. You are incredibly strong, even with your ailments and dependencies. Few people I've run across have had as many obstacles and setbacks as you have and still survive. I wondered where you were the past month or two and although I'm sorry you are going through such tough times, I'm glad you are back with us.

Hang in there. If you have any input in his recovery, get back to me and give him the names I hope I can get for you. The rest is up to him.

Ken


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