Newest Members
Bennett, 0128, jeremywickers, JScott12, TMatti2
12503 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
asdude1981 (33), Avery46 (51), hans32 (46), jean-noel (49), Kirk (59), Kirk Wayne (59), Mechanical (21), OldTrafford (50)
Who's Online
5 registered (dan_in_newengland, JW1230, 3 invisible), 27 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12503 Members
74 Forums
64194 Topics
447971 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Topic Options
#57880 - 02/14/04 10:49 PM Sister of Raven's Claw
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
I am posting this from the sister of Raven's Claw, someone who was molested by a priest but apparently never posted directly on the forum. Another member asked about posting it in the Family and Friends section in case anyone wanted to share any thoughts with her (Karen)

Ken

posted February 12, 2004 04:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am Raven's Claw sister. He died tragically on November 5, 2003 in the bathtub of his apartment from alchohol poisoning. I have been going through his things and he had drawers and drawers full of information on pedophile priests and people trying to survive attacks from these filthy priests. I found this website, his username and password among his things. So I wanted to come here to this discussion board to ask if any of you ever talked to Raven's Claw on these discussion boards. My older brother was molested by priest at our home when we were children. We were all there including Raven's Claw. But after going through Raven's Claw's belongings I begin to wonder if Raven's Claw was molested, too, but never spoke up about it. I should mention that Raven's Claw was found dead in his bathtub with whiskey bottles and a knife nearby. There were scratches on his arm and neck from the knife, but the cuts didn't kill him--the alcohol did. Is there some way that I can find out if a priest molested my brother that might have been a reason for his death???? If my brother gave up because of a priest--how could I live with it? It is a suspicion of mine, because of all the paperwork I've seen in his apartment. YOu must email me at dreams@westelcom.com because my email address is different than Raven's Claw. Also is there any way that I could search for posts that my brother might have made on these discussion boards? How would I go about doing that? Thanks, Raven Claw's sister, Karen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1 | IP: Logged |


Top
#57881 - 02/15/04 12:27 AM Re: Sister of Raven's Claw
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Karen - sorry that I cannot help you with information about your brother (I am fairly new here). All I can do is make one of 2 presumptions (and could be wrong). Firstly, your brother may have been abused and that is why he kept the information (many of us go over it in our minds). Secondly, he may have felt that he should have protected your other brother and felt some sort of guilt over that matter and therefore kept the information.

What I would like to say to you is DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF IN ANY WAY, whatever the reality turns out to be.

I was abused 34 years ago ,first told anyone 2 years ago ....still have not told my sister (who is very close to me) because I think it would hurt her so much, and I don't want to do that!

Sorry I couldn't help more ...best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

Top
#57882 - 02/17/04 03:33 PM Re: Sister of Raven's Claw
Raven's Claw Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/27/01
Posts: 2
Thank-you, Ken and Mary for guiding me to the right discussion area. I am Raven Claw's sister. My name is Karen. I have been going through a stack of documents that were in my brother's apartment. He died tragically on November 5, 2003 in his bathtub from alcohol posoining. I found articles with titles like, "Getting Through It," "A Safe Haven for Pedophiles","the Effects of Sexual Abuse Never Go Away", "Integrating a Critique of Gender in the Treatment of Male Survivors of Childhood Abuse", "The Effects of Sexual Abuse", "Catholic Pedophile Priests: The Effect on US Society" and there are many many more. Why do you think my brother collected all of these articles. He clearly read them all as they are wrinkled and some have coffee stains on them. He also had several disturbing poems that he got off the internet about abuse and surviving abuse, such as "Exits" by Jim C, "Crusade" by annonymous, and "Vampires" by annonymous. These are all poems about a child surviving sexual abuse.
Last year my church had an open forum on the sexual abuse scandal in our local town. There were priests there from 2 area Catholic churches to answer questions and moderate. I asked Raven Claw to come with me to the meeting because our older brother had been molested by a priest in our home and I wanted to see if anyone else would come forward or what the church was doing about the situation. My brother and I planned to go for about a week before the meeting. Then on the night of the meeting I called Raven's Claw and told him that I would pick him up AT 6:00. But he said that he changed his mind---he'd been drinking a few beers and didn't think that he should go. So he didn't. About halfway through the meeting my brother walked into the church and up to the mike. Raven's Claw looked the 2 priests in the face and told them that our brother had molested in our home and that we were witnesses to this event taking place. Then he said, "There are people, today, in St. Peter's cemetery---and they are there because of pedophile priests." He then turned and walked out the door. The priests did not really respond in anyway. The pastor just said, "We can meet privately about this," but my brother just kept on walking out the door. And the meeting went on like nothing had ever happened. But something did happen on November 5, 2003. Raven's Claw went into his bathtub and drank 2 bottles of whiskey and died. He is now buried in St. Peter's cemetery. And I have a strong need to know why. And I really need to know if my dear little brother John was a victim of clergy sexual abuse, but kept silent all these years and if perhaps---he is one of those victims buried in St. Peter's cemetery. Can anyone help me? I am suffering deeply as is all my family.


Top
#57883 - 02/17/04 07:05 PM Re: Sister of Raven's Claw
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Karen
What can I ever say that will make things any better ? I know how much someones suicide hurts, my best friend, also abused at school with me, took his life when he was nearly 40. It's beyond words that someones actions when we were just kids can do this to us as adults.
You do have a right to some answers.

Whether you ever find some answers is another question entirely, I hope you find enough.

I'm the forums administrator here, and I've checked the control panel for any trace of Ravens Claw, and there's none. But that doesn't mean he didn't come here and just read some of the powerfull things the guys here write, I hope he did. Perhaps we gave him some small hope ?

It took me 31 years before I disclosed, and that was to my wife of 25 years. The secrets lied deep within us.
I think your brothers secret is out though. To walk into that meeting and confront them like that makes me believe that he was 100% certain of what had happened in the past.

If he was so certain about what happened to your older brother, you must surely ask "why". I can't imagine doing something so powerful unless I "knew".

Check this post out, and maybe think about your choices.

http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003177

With your brother gone there's little chance of retribution unless there are other survivors coming forward and the abuser admits to what he's done. And that's a journey of lawyers, expense, time and frustration. With an uncertain result.
The other choice is concentrate on yourself and the remaining family, maybe through grief counselling, or coming to the Family & Friends forum here and gaining some greater understanding of what your brother was going through ? whatever you do you must not let his death rule your life in the same way as his abuser ruled his. In his own way he trying to relieve you and everyone else of the 'problem' he had. But we all know that it doesn't work like that does it ?

Your brother did nothing wrong, in fact he was a very brave man for standing up to the faceless people behind the abuser. Perhaps the reaction to that was too much for him ?

If you think your brother might have posted here it's possible that he might have used another name, and if you send me a Private Message ( at the top of my post you'll see a small icon of two people standing by an envelope, click on that, write your message and click send ) with any other information that might be useful - especially his email address. I promise that it will remain confidential and will only be used to check whether he was here under another name.

Take care of yourself Karen.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#57884 - 02/18/04 12:32 AM Re: Sister of Raven's Claw
gryffindor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 131
Loc: St. Charles, Illinois
Dear Karen,

I am so glad you came to Family and Friends. I hope you come here often to read and participate in the MS community. The people here are great.

That your brother was SAed seems to be the truth. He as much as said so when he confronted those priests at the meeting you wrote about. It took a lot of courage to do what he did, and I think you can feel proud of him for doing it.

I have never known anyone who committed suicide. The degree of pain which you feel, especially surrounded as it is by the apparent mystery of your brother's SA, I can only guess at. Perhaps it is something like the grief I felt when my father was killed by a car while riding his bicycle. It was my father's fault. At the time it seemed like a suicide because it could have been so easily prevented. But my family and I know in our hearts that it was just an accident caused by inattention. In effect, my father threw his life away.

There is nothing I can say that will fill the emptyness you feel, nor can I answer the questions you have about your brother's death. However, I believe that if you read past and current posts in the MS forum you will learn a lot about what men who have been SAed feel. Perhaps that will give you a window through which you can view your brother's suffering and enable you to better understand his death.

There is one last thing I want you to be certain of and that is that you are very much loved and cared for. There is a lot of love here for you. Please allow yourself to take it with you wherever you go.

Mary

_________________________
"Where there's a will, there's a way." American Folk Saying

"Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in darkness, I would not have recognized the light." Midrash Tehillim Ch. 22

Top
#57885 - 02/18/04 03:45 AM Re: Sister of Raven's Claw
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Karen,
I never knew your brother, but if he were associated with this site then we knew his spirit.
There are others who just come to read who don't feel comfortable enough to put into words the pain that they feel so profoundly.
What happened to your brother has happened to millions of us. We are just now speaking out about what happened to us.
Some of of have missed large portions of our lives, while others have not been able to maintain any kind of relationship because of what was done to us through no fault of our own.
Please know that our hearts go out to you and your family and friends.
I've had two of my friends kill themselves and it hurts like hell.
While your brother's death is painful, you honor us by coming here to see where he may have found some solace.
Peace, strength and courage,
David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

Top


Moderator:  ModTeam, peroperic2009 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.