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#57835 - 02/08/04 07:19 AM My fault: a phase ???
Caetel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 322
Loc: Paris, France
Since my last post on jealousy, a lot has happenened. V's relationship with the girl who hated me turned sour. V has become jealous of a guy, R.,I was helping and who was starting to fall for me. I told R. I was not interested and he dived into a relationship with the girl who hated me. As a result he started gossiping about me on the French website saying I wanted to manipulate people,that I used him to make V be jealous and he told the girl who was sleeping with V, I slept with him. Of course she told V. about it, she is so jealous and evil that she took pleasure in hurting V. Consequently V. wrote to me a violent mail (kind of out of the blue) where he stuffed in all the things he did not like about me. It felt like he was hiding his hurt behind anger. The mad thing is that I have done nothing wrong and that I have cleared things up with these two guys and apologized when I felt I needed to apologize.
My friend who came with me to Amsterdam got contacted by R who told her she should be careful with me because I am going to manipulate her...She said she did not agree with his side of the story and then he started insulting her ! When she wrote to V to warn him not to believe everything the guy is saying V. wrote her to tell her he did not love me and repeated it quite a few times and said everything was my fault. She did not respond and he wrote again to apologize for his anger towards her and again repeated that he does not love me and he is angry with me because this is all my fault ! Forgetting his role in his role in a dysfunctional relationship with someone who hated me in the first place and who kept hurting me in public when we had our evening reunions with the group. He said that and now he wants to be friend with my friend ??????
The gossiping is still going on,about me being a "manipulator" it is crazy ! But V. believes I am the one spreading gossips about him on the website. All I can do is to avoid evening reunions and not answer to provocation of the evil guy and girl who are after me. So I remain silent, hoping that the truth would be reestablished, hoping that V. will finally accept the reality that I am innocent and I love him.
I really feel he is uncapable of accepting his feelings and behaves like he is ashamed of having feelings or emotions at all.
A survivor friend explained to me that he started the affair with the dysfunctional jealous girl because he wanted to punish himself for breaking up with his mother. That makes sense !
I wanted to know if the "this is all your fault" is a normal phase that allows the survivor to express his anger. He had started doing that at Christmas after being triggered following his visit at his parents.
I am trying to recover for this insane event (that has been lasting for a month now) and I am just taking care of myself. I am hurt and angry because V. is still not taking any responsabilities for his actions though he has made important changes lately (learning to receive gifts, love..., admitting he is a control freak, loving and accepting that the hurt child within is also part of his personality/being which is just a step away from loving himself).
Please help if you can.
Thank you.

_________________________
Mitakuye oyasin ! We are all related !

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#57836 - 02/08/04 10:00 AM Re: My fault: a phase ???
kolisha54 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 475
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Phase or not, Caro Love, this is not healthy!

I know from 1st hand experience how difficult it is to pull away from one's feelings of love for another person who is not in a position to reciprocate.

Especially in your case, it seems like you are now being thrust into a position where you have to somehow "prove" yourself to a whole pack of crazy, nasty, worthless individuals! Enough already! These people are beneath contempt & do not deserve any more energy from you!

I know you are a highly social person, but it is preferable to be completely alone than to be psychologically tortured by solipsistic people. You have too much love in you to waste it on these beastly creatures!

My thinking is that you can try to pull yourself back from all of them as much as possible & try to concentrate on the new life you will be creating for yourself here in North America. Your true friends are waiting for you here....

_________________________
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now... when? --Hillel

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#57837 - 02/08/04 10:28 AM Re: My fault: a phase ???
Caetel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 322
Loc: Paris, France
Your post really, really made me laugh ! First I am telling you I do not intend to make a new life in North America, I love France and old Europe too much for that + South Africa would be first on the list of countries where I could expatriate myself !
But YES I will be coming over and YES I will be visiting you !
I am pulling away from these crazy people though I am still struggling to concentrate on my studies. My real problem right now is that I prefer doing the ironing than my letters for my internship in Canada and THAT is HIGHLY dysfunctional !!!!
How about the V's phase ?????

_________________________
Mitakuye oyasin ! We are all related !

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#57838 - 02/08/04 10:56 AM Re: My fault: a phase ???
kolisha54 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 475
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Ah, My Little Cabbage, ;\) some "phases" last a whole lifetime....

Maybe in V's next life he will have more sel-respect & self-awareness - right now, his self-hatred is consuming him. I do not know how it is possible to stop re-creating one's "family of origin" in one's emotional bonds with others, but until V finds a way to do this for himself, he will never grow up & will be stuck with the emotional profile of a 13 yr. old.

Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do or say to "help" him. He has moved himself to a place where you cannot reach him, even if deep down inside he still "knows" you are his true friend.

I wish I knew how to move away from this kind of "unfinished business." We always think there is just one more little trick we haven't yet tried & maybe THAT will be the key to the whole problem.... but it never seems to work & we just end up getting frustrated that we can never be as angelic as the situation demands.

I don't know if this answers your question.... Can't wait to go out for coffee together!!! ;\)

_________________________
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now... when? --Hillel

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#57839 - 02/08/04 11:55 AM Re: My fault: a phase ???
Caetel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 322
Loc: Paris, France
YEBO for coffee ! (means YES in zulu ! lol ! )
I have finally managed to abandon the ironing for the real work !
So thank you Kolisha ! Will write more in pm !
I still hope because V. has shown me he is truly doing some work on himself.
Yes it's true that I always think there is this last trick I have not tried ! So I end up stuck in the waiting/no move zone because I am always afraid that if I leave he will not follow.
But now my priority is to get this internship in May, come to New York and do the workshop with Mike Lew in England in June. V will have to catch up with me because I am heading for the stars !!!!
Love
Caro

_________________________
Mitakuye oyasin ! We are all related !

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#57840 - 02/08/04 12:02 PM Re: My fault: a phase ???
kolisha54 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 475
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
You Go, Girl!

_________________________
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now... when? --Hillel

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#57841 - 02/08/04 05:23 PM Re: My fault: a phase ???
theo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 1117
caro,
i recall the time of almost two years that i was a walking zombie after my former wife betrayed me so completely. there was no way any one could reach me. every night i would drink myself into a devastating sleep that never worked and the next day i would drag my sorry butt to work then start it all over again the next night. there is no way a person can be reached when they are in that state of mind. if lady theo had come into my life at that point we never would have even crossed paths because i was lashing out at everyone. i wanted to die, caro, and no one could reach me. i think i would argue about the one observation of v doing this thing with the girl because he left his mother because i think it is something else, but that is not hte point here. v is on one path that only he can change and only he has the power to do that. the one thing that i had to really accept before i could live again was that it was truly, irrevocably over. until i reached that point, my grief and my rage was constant and nothing could pierce it. i reached that point just before lady theo entered my life....it was at that point when i realized and accepted that my former life was truly over that i could even begin to accept that i had a life to live. once i realized there was still a life to live, lady theo entered it. lady theo could not have touched my life if i did not think i had one. it was i who had to see i could live, the same is true of v. until he decides to live, there is nothing for you to share, mon amie. no fault of your own, no deficiency of yours, no mistake made on your part...his choice alone. pm me if you need me.

_________________________
journey well,
theo dewolfe

- It is gift, and gift will find its way
- I inherit through my choice. I build through my affirmation. It is through my freedom that I nurture, or fade into autonomy
- I was not given to serve life, but to embrace it

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#57842 - 02/08/04 09:02 PM Re: My fault: a phase ???
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Caro'
I can't remember who sang "you can't argue with a sick mind" - whoever it was , he was right.

And until the day that V 'really' gets to grips with his life I guess he's going to spit venom at everyone who tries to get close.

Move on, you're doing the work and healing yourself, don't try and drag someone else behind you who's not doing enough, he'll drag you backwards.

Tough I know, but look after number one !

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#57843 - 02/09/04 01:23 PM Re: My fault: a phase ???
Caetel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 322
Loc: Paris, France
I have read the article someone recommended about PTSD and I have found something that makes sense about V being agressive as a way of fearing intimacy and thus keeping me away and also as a way to deal with his anger and his fear of "exploding".
I am sad because he is alone in this battle and I can do nothing. It is hard to stay away from him right now though I know I have to protect myself and he has to make a choice on his own whether or not he considers the relationship worth keeping and worth fighting for.
Not doing to good today + I have a terrible flue that makes me cry every 30 min !

_________________________
Mitakuye oyasin ! We are all related !

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#57844 - 02/09/04 07:12 PM Re: My fault: a phase ???
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Caro'
It's sad, but true. We can't do the work for someone else. Think about your healing real hard for a moment, remember how you were and compare that to how you are now, think about how you did that - and more importantly - who did that ?

V does deserve support, and love, I have no doubt about that. But on their own it isn't enough to make him better; he has to do the big share. All someone else can do is guide him, and therapy is, in my opinion, the best way to get the guidance we need.
I know that you've said he is seeing a therapist, but again that's a two way deal, there's no free ride.

He surely knows you care and want to help, and love him. But for some reason he might still be fighting all the help offered, still feeling unworthy of others help and still not trusting anyone.
That's a hell of a mountain to climb, but we have to it.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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