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#57746 - 01/28/04 02:50 PM question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Question for survivors:

My partner has relapsed badly.. our relationship is on serious rocks. He has resorted yet again to verbal abuse and is fighting me on everything. We have had some nasty fights lately, even on my birthday, when things get rough (I have been homeless and had to stay with him on account of some apartment repairs gone horribly wrong) and instead of rising to the occasion, he did the total opposite. He criticized me for my "approach" and my feelings, he pretty much let me know how much of an inconvenience all of this was to him, was angry that I could not "be there" for him when I was not even able to "be there" for myself with all the crap going on. Then when I told him that I could not handle this type of criticism, that i needed this support, that I felt so helpless and i could not be there for him.. he turned on me. Started insulting me, criticizing me, threatening me, picking apart the most tender, sensitive spots, and at one point even ripped my engagement ring off my hand.

What is it that might go through his mind that he would think that its even remotely ok to verbally and psychologically abuse me?

How scary must I appear to this guy for him to think that I possibly deserve such treatment?

Am very close to packing in this relationship. I know I have been a major source of support and hope on this site, but I just am so devastated that things have gone off the rails yet again.

I just dont think that my heart can bear another attack. I've been psychologically and verbally abused my whole life. I can't bear to think that this will continue for the rest of it. And I dont know how else to tell him how much he is hurting me but by leaving - similarly I dont know how else to protect myself but to leave.

He has gone to a lot of therapy, and he chose not to use any of the tools and tips that he learned over the past few years.

It just seems that he has no ability to just stop when things start getting crazy. I dont have it in me to just sit and take it. Is that so wrong? That I dont just sit and take it? That I fight back?

Its like he can see nothing but his mother in front of him, not me, not the friend he knew a long time ago, not the person he proposed to, but his mother who allowed some man to abuse him a long long time ago. Its like he gets possessed sometimes.

I am an abuse survivor myself and I have tried hard to separate the now from the then, to separate him from my father, to draw a distinction between the two.. and he just can't seem to separate any of us.

P


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#57747 - 01/28/04 06:16 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
PAS
I've often said that I've moved on and left some friends behind, not fallen out with them, just moved on.

I've moved on because I've worked bloody hard at it, I made a huge effort not only to accept therapy, but I didn't stop working on what I learnt the second I walked out of the door. I read books and talked to other survivors, eventually I ended up here - just like you.

I know how hard you work, how much you give, just by looking at the extrordinary support you give us all here.
You've survived your abuse, you do your work - are you also being expected to do your boyfriends ?

This is a "do it yourself" deal, as you know.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#57748 - 01/28/04 11:34 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
scarman Offline
Member

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 74
Loc: London On Canada
He isn't thinking when he is acting like this. It doesn't mean it is ok... and you definetly don't deserve to sit back and take it. He needs to know how you feel. He will either be at a point in his life when he can work with you as a couple or not. If he can, couple therapy would be a good start. If he can't right now, then you need to take care of yourself and put an end to your abuse. No person deserves a life time of it. And if you can stop it before you sign up for a life time of it, think seriously about going that route.

shawn \:\)

_________________________
scarman stands for the tatoos I have, and also the emotional scars I've accumulated from my past.

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#57749 - 01/29/04 12:40 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
gryffindor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 131
Loc: St. Charles, Illinois
PAS,

How sad that this has happened. I am so sorry. You are a great support at MS. You deserve to receive the same kind of support. Scarman's advice is right on point. I think that if I were you, I would be afraid that after I was married I might be physically abused. I lived with my husband for six years before marrying him. I thought I knew him, but I didn't. He did not handle set backs easily. He allowed his boss to abuse him without protesting or making a determined effort to find a new job. He did the work of three men yet lived in fear of being fired. And through it all, he drank and took his anger out on me. I wish I had had the courage to divorce him years ago, but I had a small child and was afraid because I had no job, no money, and no where to go. If your bf is abusive now, he still will be after your married. He simply isn't ready yet.

Mary

_________________________
"Where there's a will, there's a way." American Folk Saying

"Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in darkness, I would not have recognized the light." Midrash Tehillim Ch. 22

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#57750 - 01/29/04 02:12 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
PAS

We're always saying hindsight is such a great thing. Hindsight is a bittersweet gift, PAS, because I have been looking into the last 5 years--hell, the last 22 years--and I have grown from it and I have found some closure and all that, but I have also seen the truly terrible life that I was living.

I can not tell myself anymore that I was in a good but troubled relationship, or that we didn't know what we were doing, or that I left the ones who hurt me behind when I left town. During the bad times I believed these things, and more, because I needed to keep myself going, I needed to justify my irrational emotions and my bad relationship. I can't anymore and I won't, and what's more, I will give up anything before I take myself and my children back into that life. Including the man I want to share my life with, if he's determined to take himself back there. I've told him as much recently. He knows this isn't a bluff and I hope that if our situations were reversed he'd let go of me before he let go of his shot at a better life.

Abuse is abuse. What your partner did was intended to hurt you and make him feel powerful. We don't want to believe that the people we love do this. We spend a lot of time and energy trying to change it, make what they've done be okay somehow, be our fault, be a relapse, be unintentional, anything but abuse. You talk in this post about needing to separate him from your father. You said something in a recent post about needing to see him as "like yourself." I think you ought to do some real thinking now about the difference between what you see because it's there and what you see because you put it there. PAS I am so sorry, I know these words sound terrible and harsh.

good luck, take care of yourself
SAR


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#57751 - 01/29/04 08:26 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
kolisha54 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 475
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
One of the saddest dynamics in our attempts to forge a committed bond with a survivor is that when the s&^% starts flying, we tend to find the survivor's psychology, mental state, & spiritual development to be far more compelling & fascinating than our own....

No matter how hard we try to break free - even if we end up discarding or escaping the relationship - we always seem to worry more about our partner or ex-partner more than we worry about ourselves.

I do not know if we will ever succeed in freeing ourselves from this dynamic, even as we cry out our howls of protest about the abusive behaviors. So many of us come into these relationships with "pasts" of our own - I wonder if we aren't simply too "comfortable" with them in our subconscious minds to ever truly break free????

PAS, SAR, everyone else - my heart breaks for all of us.

_________________________
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now... when? --Hillel

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#57752 - 01/29/04 10:37 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
So many of us come into these relationships with "pasts" of our own - I wonder if we aren't simply too "comfortable" with them in our subconscious minds to ever truly break free????

PAS, SAR, everyone else - my heart breaks for all of us.
I dont know either.. we definitely have a much higher tolerance for shit and abuse than people who dont have the same kind of background.

My heart is breaking too.

That song "love.. love.. feels like a ball and chain.. I dont think that I could ever love again"... is running through my head.

He has no idea that I am thinking these thoughts. He thinks that everything is fine and that we are ok... and that everything is just marching forward merrily and happily... but inside I am sick about all of this.

We have been to couples therapy, he has been to anger management therapy, he is in group therapy for SA, I even paid $250 so he could go on an intensive retreat.. and still this happens.

I dont know what else we/he/I can do.

P


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#57753 - 01/29/04 10:42 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
James_dup1 Offline


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
PAS,
Im so very sorry to hear about this. Living with a male survivor has to be next to impossable at times. I dont envey my ex or any of you. All I can say is to be sure to take care of #1 YOU! Your no go to him or anyone if you let his issues drag you down to where he is. Your support and kind words you have given so many here gives us a small look into your heart. And from what I can see you have a heart of gold. Thank you PAS for being here. And please take care of you, YOU DO NOT DISERVE TO BE ABUSED BY ANYONE, NO MATTER WHAT THEIR ISSUES ARE! (((((((PAS))))))))))
James

_________________________
I have more issues than Rolling Stone!


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#57754 - 01/29/04 12:39 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Quote:
He has no idea that I am thinking these thoughts. He thinks that everything is fine and that we are ok... and that everything is just marching forward merrily and happily... but inside I am sick about all of this.
PAS,

Then he is not really in the relationship with you, is he?

He needs to know about these thoughts. If he cannot make the effort to change his behavior when he knows how much it is hurting you, well, you know where that leads.

How much couples' therapy have you done? I had no idea how much my wife was hurting until we almost broke up back in 2002. We started couples' therapy then, and are still at it now. Maybe we had our issues more deeply embedded with 14 years together, but it might be helpful to you to return or continue the couples' therapy. It's still helping us.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#57755 - 01/30/04 10:53 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Thanks for all your support.. actually I did get really firm with him after this latest incident and said that I will not spend one more dollar on the wedding or go forward with one more wedding plan until:

a) he contacts and meet with his T to discuss this and

b) we both meet with my T to discuss what happened and how this behaviour will affect me and the relationship in the long run

And that I will NOT be satisfied if he denies, deflect blame or otherwise minimize what went on between us. That we both are brutally honest about what was said and done and the effects of this on our relationship and on my mental health.

He agreed readily.

First thing he did right after that was to make his appointment (next Thursday) and tell me his available dates for meeting with my therapist.

I suppose that is something but phuuuuuuuuucckkk my head and heart and emotions are still reeling. I have had chronic diarrhea and nausea since the event.

I just have a hard time because this was not just your ordinary average "fuck off, bitch" verbal abuse which is bad enough, but he got into all my tender spots, yelled at me for having an anger problem (do you see the irony in that?) yelled at me for having an anxiety problem (again, any irony there?) told me I was no better than my abusive dad, that he was just fed up, that he loved me but he could not see a future with me, at one point he even ripped the engagement ring off my hand... all the really tender spots. Like rubbing salt in a wound. And when I got up to leave he just sat there, silent, stone like, no move to apologize, to recognize the seriousness of what was going on, to just STOP STOP STOP the madness!!!

And then when I begged him to snap out of it and look at and think about what he had said and where did he learn to talk about it he just started crying and saying "I dont know what comes over me and why I say the things I do and why I become a monster like that"....

Its so frustrating because he just does not want to accept any of my suggestions that maybe, just maybe he's still got some issues and pain and anger and denial deep down inside him about his mom, and how angry he is at her for all the stuff she did and how that led to him being a ripe candidate for molestation... and until he taps into that I think I'll continue to be his target.

During his "remorse" session that night I did say to him "did you ever think that you are just so deeply angry at your mother?" he goes "why??" and I went "because your mother was supposed to protect and love you, and she didn't, that she does not listen to you, she really does NOT give you space, she really was never safe for you, she never taught you about love, about sex, about relationships, that she set you up to be a needy kid who sought comfort and support from someone, and then that person who formed a relationship with you took advantage of you and TOOK whatever he wanted no matter what you wanted.. you spent so many years with peopel who really didnt give two shits about your own needs or wants.. and no wonder you just feel you have to take take take and abuse abuse abuse to get them!!"

He just replied "do you really think so?" and put his head into my chest and cried like he was 5 years old... it was so heart wrenching.

But in the end... I mean, come on, how much "monster behaviour" does he have to exhibit before he clues in that there is a big problem? I mean.. duuh! Obvious clues all over the place.

Lets hope he's into being honest and straightforward about this. Shining a light on this is definitely warrranted at this point. I fear this event is doomed to repeat itself until he is completely honest about the depth of his pain and anger towards his mother and does some real deep grief-release work.

Keep your fingers crossed.

P


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#57756 - 01/30/04 12:07 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
PAS,

I admire you. I hope he does come around.

Now I need to think about what things I don't see in myself.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#57757 - 01/31/04 12:27 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
lindts Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 26
Excuse me if this sounds like a stupid question..but when a survivor says recovery is long term from when they first really start to deal with it, they are talking years not months, right? And at times, is it normal for the bad times to be almost as bad as starting at square one again on the road to recovery?
I think I need reassurance since my bf is going through a hostile time now. I guess after six months, when things got better, my heart wanted to think we were good to go, but I think my mind knew a roller coaster ride was still ahead. For some reason I'm having a hard time now, realizing that lapses (wobbles) are normal and that I need to be patient and ride it out again.


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#57758 - 01/31/04 05:31 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
kolisha54 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 475
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Hmmmm. This is a tough one...
For myself, I have had quite enough for now. So many of us are also survivors & sometimes it's hard to know where Love ends & where Enabling begins.

I have determined the line for myself: it is when my OWN triggers begin to trip me up so badly after being ignored & treated like a stranger that I begin to wonder if I am delusional....

We all have to figure out for ourselves how much we are prepared to accept from our SO's.

On another level, we must understand that our partners are now ADULTS! We do them no favor by condescending to them as if they are children. If we become too "parental," we will smother (or sfather for gay men ;\) ???) the most important avenue they have available to help them grow.

Sorry, Love, if this sounds harsh, but life is here to be celebrated. As partners, we have a reciprocal responsibility toward eachother. BOTH individuals must commit to the idea or the "romance" of the partnership. This is not to say that there won't be rough times, but once either one of us begins to feel frustrated to the point of having a vicarious identity crisis - it's time to think about pulling back for a good while, if not about ending the relationship.

I wish you strength!!!

_________________________
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now... when? --Hillel

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#57759 - 01/31/04 10:05 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
PAS
Quote:
During his "remorse" session that night I did say to him "did you ever think that you are just so deeply angry at your mother?" he goes "why??" and I went "because your mother was supposed to protect and love you, and she didn't, that she does not listen to you, she really does NOT give you space, she really was never safe for you, she never taught you about love, about sex, about relationships, that she set you up to be a needy kid who sought comfort and support from someone, and then that person who formed a relationship with you took advantage of you and TOOK whatever he wanted no matter what you wanted.. you spent so many years with peopel who really didnt give two shits about your own needs or wants.. and no wonder you just feel you have to take take take and abuse abuse abuse to get them!!"
Are you talking about me and my mother here ?

Yes, this is where he's got to go - like it or not.

It's 2-00 am here, I'll finish this tomorrow

Dave :rolleyes:

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#57760 - 02/01/04 07:53 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
When my therapist made me go back beyond my abuse to the life I had as a small boy I wondered what the hell he was up to ?

My family didn't abuse me, so why go there ?
But it became clear, my parents - mother in particular - is the woman PAS describes here
Quote:
"because your mother was supposed to protect and love you, and she didn't,
But in my case for certain, how could she protect me ? I was at boarding school and she knew nothing.
But the slight doubt remains within me, because I didn't experience her reactions, and her protection, back then I don't KNOW what they feel like. All I can do is imagine them, and however hard I try it's not enough. And that's hard.
Unfortunately we're in no position to rectify it now either as she has dementia and wouldn't understand.

So, this also makes a lot of sense to me -
Quote:
you spent so many years with peopel who really didnt give two shits about your own needs or wants.. and no wonder you just feel you have to take take take and abuse abuse abuse to get them!!"
Even though I'm 99.999% sure that my parents would have given a shit, I haven't felt it.

But a few years back I didn't think that they gave a shit at all, so it's an improvement. For that I'm grateful.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#57761 - 02/02/04 01:09 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
PAS,

I have no idea what could be going through his mind; I, personally, tend to revert inside and would be more distant and quiet. I can only guess that he feels such a lack of control over his life that he is trying to regain it by taking control over yours. This is not a good thing, nor is it an excuse for doing that.

You shouldn't have to go through any abusive situation. You have absolutely no obligation to go through that. You have made him aware of what he is doing and told him to stop, yet he hasn't. You have done what you can for him, he will have to take over from there. Get yourself to a place you feel and are safe, whether it be with or without him. Maybe that will help him see what he is doing, maybe not, but it will not change until he sees it and wants to take care of it.

Take care of yourself,
Bill

_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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#57762 - 02/02/04 10:42 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Thanks for all your advice/support...

I guess for me I can handle the distancing, the need for him to be alone, his high needs for "self care time" and all of that, his need to reach out to other survivors, etc. etc.. but what I cannot handle is when he takes it out on me. I can handle distance, i can handle him being stand-offish, I could even handle no sex in our relationship for awhile, but I cannot handle it when he starts freaking out and cursing and swearing at me... I guess that's the line.

Have been in a chronic anxiety attack ever since it happened. I suffer for so long after every verbal attack. This time I have cried myself to sleep and awake (when I sleep that is) every time.

I know something is terribly wrong when I cannot sleep.

P


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#57763 - 02/02/04 05:31 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
PAS,

Again, I must reiterate what the other brothers and sisters have said - regardless of the abuse this man has gone through, he doesn't, DOESN'T, have the right to abuse you. That you are standing up to this and for yourself is to be admired.

Ya know, I'm grateful I have relatives who will slap me upside the head when I get too wrapped up in myself and tell me I'm being a grade-A jack@$$. It doens't take the responsability off of me to change, but it's nice to have the folks steering me in that direction.

You are a source of strength here, and I value that. I value you. You have such worth to us.

I hope he gets the help he needs to cope, and I hope you get the peace YOU deserve!

I love you, sister, no strings.

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#57764 - 02/03/04 04:11 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
To everyone: Thanks.

Things still not that great.. I'm still stuck in counter-wobble city. (Counter-wobble = the term given to us in our partners group for the wobble that partners start to suffer when the survivor goes on a wobble).

My fiance went away on a trip since our last fight and when he came back I let him know how much anguish and pain I have been in since he left, on account mostly of how much his verbal assault triggered my own verbal/psychological abuse history. And I told him that although I may not always appear to love myself, that if that level of verbal abuse happens again, then I don't have much choice but to end the relationship. That I have to protect myself and that I cannot proclaim to love myself and then continue to allow myself to be subject to that kind of verbal abuse.

I said it in a very non confrontational way and had tears in my eyes when I said it.. then I started crying and said "please dont make me have to make that decision.. promise me you wont yell at me like that ever again.. I love you and want this relationship, this marriage to work but you have to PROMISE me...".. and I cried.. and cried.... it hurt to be so vulnerable in front of him.

He promised.

We both cried.

He has his group therapy tonight and an appointment with his counsellor this week.

Keep your fingers crossed.

Thanks for all the support on here.

P


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#57765 - 02/03/04 08:18 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
PAS
I hope it goes OK, everyone needs someone to love.

Dave \:\)

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#57766 - 02/04/04 09:58 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Pollyanna Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 211
Loc: Missouri
{{{{{{{{{{{{{PAS}}}}}}}}}}}}

I have everything crossed...even my eyes!!!

Hugs,

Lynn

_________________________
"Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up."

– Anne Lamott

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#57767 - 02/04/04 05:27 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
wifenneed Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 91
Loc: Michigan
PAS

Good wishes are going your way! I hope therapy will start him on the path which leads to no more verbal abuse!!

You are greatly appreciated on this site for your honesty and bravery.

Kathy


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#57768 - 02/04/04 05:51 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Well we did have another disagreement last night on "time and space" and self care and his needs and all of that...

On the down note it did degenerate into another fight...

But after.. we both took the high road.. a little less "reactive" to each other.. well he was a little less reactive to me. I wish I could say the same... then again maybe i am being a little hard on myself. Ok I will admit I was not exactly "unemotional" last night but I did take strides to be more open and honest. And I think he is too. At least he made an attempt to try and understand me better last night, despite my high-degree of whininess and still being wildly in "trigger city".

Hopefully we can use all of this as fodder to move forward.

At least he is committed.. I mean committed to his recovery as much as he is committed to me.

What else can I ask for except for both of us to keep our commitment we made to "keep the relationship sacred" ??? (ode to Dr.Phil here)

I guess I'm still treading lightly.. like walking on thin ice.

P


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#57769 - 02/06/04 01:56 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
theo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 1117
pas,
i had to stay away from this thread for awhile because of what it triggered for me. i am in a safer place right now so i was wanting to throw in my two cents.

you have the strength to make the hard decision if you have to. all the advice here already, and the steps you have already made for your own safety speak so clearly of the anguish and the strength you have. there is not much i can offer that has not already been said. i would like to share some of my past though, just to offer more food for thought if you feel up to it.

i was married for eight years. it was an ongoing battle because we were both victims in our own way, neither one of us were survivors at that point in the sense of knowing what we were struggling with. she had her own way of doing things and i fell in line to keep the peace while always hoping things would work out in the end, that we would find the peace we both sought and move on with a greater marriage. this is hard...

i lived in makebelieve world that we loved each other and that we would do anything to keep us together. it did not work out that way, pas. she was spiteful, vindictive, and hateful at times, but also very loving and contrite at other times. it was so confusing, but i loved her a great deal. what she did to me in the end of our marriage was horribly wrong in so many ways, and i still carry the wounds that have not healed yet. but in the end, no matter what she did wrong, she alone had the strength to realize at some level that our marriage would not work out. for that, she has my respect. in the end, we did move on and find a better life. she is now at peace as far as i know, and i am in a wonderful relationship with my real soulmate. those wounds of mine still flare at times, especially over the son i will never see again, but i am on the road to recovery. it took the hell of what she did three years ago to put me in this place of peace and recovery that i have now, and while it will always hurt over how she did it, i will never forget that she was able to do what i never could have. we have each found a life that is far more fulfilling then what we shared together, but a part of us will always have that past...and i think it has made each of us stronger.

the point to all of this, pas, is that we spent so many years in a really bad place (there were good times of course) because we thought that was where we needed to be. now that we are no longer in that bad place we have been able to find what it was we were really looking for and what we each really wanted. your b/f is a good man in many ways, i am sure, otherwise you would have left him so long ago, but, if he cannot be in a place where he can see the hell he is putting you through, then it is not safe for you to be there. abuse is not an isolated event, pas, and you know this. it will not get better because of a promise. it will only get better when he is at that place where he can truly see and feel the pain his actions have caused for you. remorse is one thing, but it is often part of the cycle you have already commented on. my former wife never really understood the hell she put me through until several months after she did what she did to me. she had remorse for when she was abusive during our marriage, and i played the perfect forgiving husband, but the anger and betrayal i held within kept eating at me. it takes what i have called a conversion experience. in a sense, it is that point where a victim becomes a survivor and starts to own their own behavior, even allowing the inevitable slips, but they own it and try to take it forward. i don't think he is there yet from what you have said.

you do not deserve to be the punching bag, verbal or otherwise, of anyone. i am here if you need me, pas. take care.

_________________________
journey well,
theo dewolfe

- It is gift, and gift will find its way
- I inherit through my choice. I build through my affirmation. It is through my freedom that I nurture, or fade into autonomy
- I was not given to serve life, but to embrace it

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#57770 - 02/07/04 10:39 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
PAS,

I can't add anything to what Theo said, except that I care, I'm here, I want what's best for you (and only you can decide that), and I want you to be safe and happy.

You have so much to offer people, sister, and YOU deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. If there's no respect and dignity, then you have to ask yourself, "is love worth me being treated like this?"

NOTHING is worth being treated with anything less than dignity and respect.

Peace and love,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#57771 - 02/07/04 02:53 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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#57772 - 02/07/04 09:26 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Bill
that's a great site, and I've had loads of useful stuff from there.

I'll link the home page from the Male Survivors forum.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#57773 - 02/08/04 11:23 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
It would be nice if they would link us or mention us on this site. I didn't see anything in the male victimization page or the links. If you have the time/energy, would you approach them to link/mention us, Lloydy?
Ken


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#57774 - 02/09/04 03:38 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Thanks to everyone... wow your support has been more than overwhelming.

My partner and I have had a lot of discussions on this lately.. and I do konw that my partner does feel a LOT of remorse over what he says/does when we fight. Recently we have made a commitment to keep the relationship above the hurtful "sabre rattling" and threats that happen. At least we have removed the threats of walking out/breaking up and have committed to work through this and be angry at each other and be OK with it without it threatening the relationship. This really does help in allowing us to speak out minds and say waht is really hurting us (in an acceptable tone/approach of course).

What I find most hard is we have had a lot of training on "fair fighting" - that it is important to phrase concerns as "I statements" (rather than saying "you are this and you are that" you say "when you do this I feel this").. but he's really reluctant to use this approach.. no matter how much therapy he's/we've had... and instead our discussions do wind up in accusations... him accusing me of this and that... which is when I come out of my corner swinging. In my own therapy I am really trying to learn how to be OK and stand my ground, to keep m head when all hell is breaking loose, so on occasion I have sensed a situation developing, and backed away.. but unfortunately on those occasions my partner has resorted to hounding me until I break (how much crap can one withstand before you come out swinging??)

My partner has admitted that he has often been afraid of me because I get so angry - I'm a pretty spirited, emotional, extrovert and its no secret when I'm happy, sad, angry, scared, etc... but I guess the big question is whose stuff is it here.. is it his problem to get over the anger and stand up for himself and not be threatened by my anger, and learn that just because I am angry it is not personal? Or is it my responsiblity to tone down the anger and work out whatever it is that is causing me to be so angry and in turn, stop triggering him? Which one of us has to do what? Who is responsible for what? Is it only one of us or both of us? Is this a "me/he" issue or an "us" issue?

At least I now know that his actions are rooted in his fear of my anger.. now the next step - who's stuff is whose? Who has to do what?

Maybe a session or two of couples counselling may be order.. at least we have the root cause now...

which is something...

P


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#57775 - 02/09/04 04:14 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
theo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 1117
pas,
speaking for myself, the problem for me is understanding that a person's anger is not a personal statement or judgment about me. lady theo and i are soulmates but we have had our own very spirited disagreements and shtf episodes. i think for many survivors the distinction between anger and passing judgment is too fine if not totally distorted. i am afraid that when she gets angry at me or about me that it will be just like it was before in my life before her. that is not fair to her by any means, but it is my fear and something i am working on a great deal. i get the impression your guy is not a complete schmuck, just really confused. no justification for his behavior, but he is not a class a dirtbag. he wants to try, if i am reading what you say correctly, but he might have to reach a point where he has a "eureka!" moment before it really sinks in what he is doing. either way, your safety and well being is vital. follow your heart, and your mind. pm me if you need to.

_________________________
journey well,
theo dewolfe

- It is gift, and gift will find its way
- I inherit through my choice. I build through my affirmation. It is through my freedom that I nurture, or fade into autonomy
- I was not given to serve life, but to embrace it

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#57776 - 02/09/04 07:27 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
PAS
I can't argue with what Theo say's here.

As for divvying up who owns which bit of the firestorms - well, how about equal shares ?
Even if you both feel the unequal partner in the firestorm, would it make sense to try and give / take a little bit each and "agree" that each persons bit is worth the same ?
And you don't have to do it all at once do you ? Pick one thing that each of you would really like the other to focus on and work with that maybe ?

I know that I like to have just one thing at a time to work at, but then I can barely walk and chew gum some days :rolleyes: "Multitasking ?" - in my dreams \:D

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#57777 - 02/10/04 11:28 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Good idea to split up the "firestorm" issues...

I think my partner is concerned becuse he does not think that I am working on "anger management".. I am.. but I have not told him. However, I am not sure what to modify/change with respect to when I'm angry around him until he lets me know specifically what to do. Unfortunately when we get into arguments on it it usually winds up with him criticizing me, passing judgement and not giving me specific details to work on.. but rather a sweeping generalized criticism of a lot of stuff.. which does not help - in fact it hurts a lot and thats when the arguments turn into verbal abuse.. (sweeping generalizations about me.. then I reply with anger/frustration/denial (because it hurts).. and then he ups the ante into stronger criticisms then verbal abuse).

It is hard because I am just not sure what about it that bothers him.. some pepole can put up with me when I'm in my twirly-spazz emotional state, others can't.

Again I need the "I feel" statements. Only when he tells me specifically how something bothers him and what I could do differently, in a calm and supportive and compassionate voice do I want to do something to change. Other than that I view it as an attack and the last thing I want to do is be accommodating.

No - my partner is not a class A dirtbag but a survivior who really resorts to "robot mode" when he is triggered.. he robots, pull away, blank outs then blows his top. Very little warning. He's got so much mom-anger-fear going on that he just has not gotten over it. He is also in total denial when things are wrong.. "no nothings wrong.. nothings wrong".. then BOOOM!!! Very little talking, very little negotiating, just controlled response then a loss of control.

Very difficult.

P


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#57778 - 02/10/04 11:59 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by theo:
pas,
speaking for myself, the problem for me is understanding that a person's anger is not a personal statement or judgment about me. lady theo and i are soulmates but we have had our own very spirited disagreements and shtf episodes. i think for many survivors the distinction between anger and passing judgment is too fine if not totally distorted.

*stuff snipped*


... he might have to reach a point where he has a "eureka!" moment before it really sinks in what he is doing. either way, your safety and well being is vital. follow your heart, and your mind. pm me if you need to.
This is great. I have often wondered why he gets so freaked when I get mad. I have kind of thought it really odd for him to get freaked when I am angry.. especially when the reason I am angry has NOTHING to do with him at all!! It is just REALLY weird! I could be mad about someone banging into my car but then he starts getting mad at me being mad at that! Its so weird!

We have serious disagreements I am sure because we have different "family of origin rules" that we have learned about anger and how to express it.

My family there was too much expressed.. all over the place.. my home life was all messy and drama-queenish (er.. king) and over the top into threats and abuse.

In his family it was all swept under the rug but just simmering below the surface - a passive-aggressive thing.

I struggle with damping it down (I see it as denial) and he has a problem with opening it up (he sees it as whining).

However - we made a pledge the other day to not "personalize" the other persons anger - to not initially and immediately assume just because someone is angry that we are angry because of our partner. To give the other person the right to be angry in our own right. I guess now the key is to put it into practice.. as we certainly have pesronalized anger since that pledge.

To be honest I have two big sources of anger in my life and they are NOT my partner. I am only angry at him when we get into these spats/criticism attacks. For the most part we have a pretty functional, fun, friendship, relationship and partnership. To be honest I am more grateful for my partner than anything else in my life. I just hate when we degenerate from the wonderful friendship/partner/team that we are building into this arena of "fear about anger" crap. Thats when it all goes to shit.

Usually I'm angry about my job.. or my parents (and all my PTSD that ensues from that growing up).. two major sources of grief and abuse. My job is political/legal and has in it all kinds of major power struggles and really dysfunctional people with inferiority complexes.... Its just hard becasue of my background I'm often job-triggered... I"ve been put in a very difficult position, having to work with someone who is a paranoid passive-aggressive control freak.. and will stop at nothing including stealing my work, stealing my ideas, sabotage, cutting me out of the process, putting words in his bosses mouths, and outright lying to get his way. Its pretty sad. It gets personal, and pushes just about every insecurity button I have.

I am working on it though. A great experience to allow me to discover my triggers, sit "in" my triggered state, work on getting my triggers under control and into the "working zone".

But as you all know.. it takes time, patience, guidance, education and practice. And it is hard as I am often triggered when under extremely tight deadlines.. makes for a challenging work environment to say the least. And I wonder why I have an anxiety disorder??

Sometimes I'm still in a trigger when I come home and need some support.. which is where trouble happens. my partner needs "alone time" (he is in a noisy shared office all day) when he comes home.. I need "talk time" (I am alone in an office all day) - it makes it worse because he is an introvert and I am an extrovert... and when we are both hungry/preparing dinner... or when its time to go to bed.. and we are tired.. those are our worst times.. fight city!

P


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#57779 - 02/10/04 07:43 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
PAS
I recognise this -

Quote:
"no nothings wrong.. nothings wrong".. then BOOOM!!!
And I recognise the family thing of sweeping it all under the rug !

I used to talk to my wife, well not exactly talk :rolleyes: , about "stuff" and I often wondered why she had no comprehension of what I was bitching about. I thought that - "you know ? all that stuff and shit you do" - was perfectly clear, but apparently it wasn't.


Quote:
Sometimes I'm still in a trigger when I come home and need some support.. which is where trouble happens. my partner needs "alone time" (he is in a noisy shared office all day) when he comes home.. I need "talk time" (I am alone in an office all day)
My wifes old job meant she came home 90 minutes later than me, and that was my relaxing time, I'd just sit in my chair and fester with a beer, sometimes I'd even think a bit about my problems. I loved that time.
But about 5 years ago she changed jobs and gets home same time as me, and I hate to say it but, I hate it. I deal with it and now I make a different time for festering on my own. I think that 'fester time' is important.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#57780 - 02/10/04 11:31 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
My boyfriend is off festering right now with the festeriest bunch of festered men in a fifty mile radius. And man I am so glad that he is doing it out instead of bringing them home the way he used to.

Our problem used to be, I'd come home from work, wanting my own hour of quiet, and my living room would be the land of testosterone. When I confronted him about it he was surprised--he thought he was doing me a favor by being at home instead of going out... in retrospect this seems like a really "cute" problem.

I recognize this too:
Quote:
I have kind of thought it really odd for him to get freaked when I am angry.. especially when the reason I am angry has NOTHING to do with him at all!! It is just REALLY weird! I could be mad about someone banging into my car but then he starts getting mad at me being mad at that!
I think that mixed in with my boyfriend's fear of anger is his jealously about my ability to express my anger in the first place. He wasn't just raised to sweep it under the rug... it was more than that... it was, "How dare you have such a feeling, don't you know that your (insignificant) feelings could hurt someone else's (all-important) feelings?" I don't know that he sees my anger as whining, but he definitely sees it as something he's not allowed to have access to and that is hard for him. I'm reading a book which is actually about bullying and aggression in girls, but I see a lot of my boyfriend in what the author has to say about "indirect aggression" and the way we handle aggression when we are taught that bad relationships are better than no relationships, and it's best to avoid conflict even at the expense of our feelings, because conflict could end the relationship.

SAR


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#57781 - 02/11/04 11:01 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by SAR:
it's best to avoid conflict even at the expense of our feelings, because conflict could end the relationship.

Yeah thats the hard thing.. what my partner and i have done lately is commit to the fact that conflict will NOT end the relaitonship therefore we are free to engage in conflict which could even include saying things to each other that are hard to hear/say.

We have made a pact that threats to end the relationship, and all that goes with it is completely OFF LIMITS in our arguments. Does not mean that we are stuck with each other if things are really bad and this relationship is not meant to be, but during a heated argument any threat or suggestion of walking out is unacceptable. If we are serious about ending the releationship we will have to do it in some other forum (couples counsellor, discussions, letters, etc.)

A little dr. phil trick in action....

P


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#57782 - 02/12/04 12:13 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
gryffindor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 131
Loc: St. Charles, Illinois
PAS,

Your boss is abusing you. The anger you feel but cannot express to your boss you are venting at home and is terrifying your b/f. I think you would feel better if you confronted your boss with his unconscionable abuse of you.

Mary

_________________________
"Where there's a will, there's a way." American Folk Saying

"Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in darkness, I would not have recognized the light." Midrash Tehillim Ch. 22

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#57783 - 02/12/04 12:49 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by gryffindor:
PAS,

Your boss is abusing you. The anger you feel but cannot express to your boss you are venting at home and is terrifying your b/f. I think you would feel better if you confronted your boss with his unconscionable abuse of you.

Mary
I find this comment full of assumption and judgement and not very helpful. Perhaps there is some support in here somewhere but I can't see it.

Sorry.


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#57784 - 02/12/04 01:36 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
tschirret Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/16/03
Posts: 20
Pas .

Mary might have put her comment in too succinct a manner, but I believe she has a point. Look at the way you described your job situation, look at the strong adjectives you used:

I"ve been put in a very difficult position, having to work with someone who is a paranoid passive-aggressive control freak.. and will stop at nothing including stealing my work, stealing my ideas, sabotage, cutting me out of the process, putting words in his bosses mouths, and outright lying to get his way. Its pretty sad. It gets personal, and pushes just about every insecurity button I have.

Without dismissing any of the difficulties you are facing at the moment with your boyfriend, and his part of responsibility in it, I think that the impact of your work situation is also an area that you could explore. (yes, one more, as if you did not have enough on your plate already). It sounds as if you are in a very tense situation at work and it is unlikely that you can just go home, just forget about it, and not bring the underlying tension and frustration to your conversations with your boyfriend. Please do not read this comment as meaning that I believe you bear the entire responsibility in this. You are obviously putting a lot of energy into your relationship, into helping your boyfriend and helping the two of you. I have been in a similar situation and was very reluctant to assess its impact on my relationship. My position was: why should I have to do all the work? Why should I have to make the conscious effort not to bring my job frustrations home simply because my partner is in a tough spot? I was very reluctant to let go of it, expecting my partner to be supportive. Well, he could not at the time, and I was stuck. My T helped me to realize that, for the time being, it was in my best interest to turn to friends to vent my frustration. It worked for me.
It might be worth your while to look at it. Whatever your conclusion (frustration at work is/ is not holding me back in my efforts to improve our relationship), you will benefit from it because you will know if some of your emotional energy is misdirected or not.
Be well

MN


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#57785 - 02/12/04 03:10 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by tschirret:
Pas .
Without dismissing any of the difficulties you are facing at the moment with your boyfriend, and his part of responsibility in it, I think that the impact of your work situation is also an area that you could explore.
I'm very prepared to say this is an issue and as I'm already doing a lot, I just find it uncomfortable to be "called on it".. which is what I saw that post as.

I didnt bring all that I am doing already on here as I usually tend to focus my concerns on here about my partner and the issues his SA bring to the relationship and how to manage. I have a T of my own and a conflict resolution mediator at work already and didn't think it was necessary to bring that up here. I wanted to keep the focus of my posts related to SA and my partner and my relationship.

The point I was trying to illustrate with work was that I'm VERY oversubscribed in my life with people, including my partner and people at work who have difficulties (SA or otherwise) and who are frequently finding it necessary to resort to control, verbal abuse, sabotage, and bullying to get their way with me (same shit, different environment isn't it??). And I am trying to figure out a way to get through that, which includes posting my pain on here as a way to get a reality check on things with respect to my relationship. The other shit I'll figure out on my own.

But you have a point about talking about this with my partner. This is where we do get into problems. I guess I'm scared that this will drive a wedge between us as I DO need to work out this fucking work problem and I do need to talk it out.. thats how I process things (I'm an extrovert). This work situation is causing me a lot of pain and I have a hard time leaving it at the office.

I am trying a million ways from Sunday to figure out how best to handle it in the context of my relationship with someone who is already handling a lot on his own. Its pretty painful and lonely.... and I am really lost.

I just cant push it away right now. I come home and I try to be all calm and sit with it but then I'll start to cry.. or I'll zone out... I am trying REALLY hard to get away from my "freaking out" approach which I used to take untili recently.

Last night I had the biggest panic attack - picture a computer popping chips in 100'F heat.. that was my brain. It was kind of like an out of body experience. And when I do that my partner gets even MORE mad at me and he personalizes it, he gets mad, blames, yells.... but what the fuck can I do? I have tried to talk and he threatens me. I try to keep it all under control and I zone out like a friggin zombie. What the fuck am I going to do?

Its just unbearable right now. I dont feel like we are much of a team and it hurts. We have to go off into our own corners and lick our wounds and we dont have much energy to put into the relationship right now.

And yes I do feel like "why do I have to do all the work" a lot of the time. I have felt that way for awhile. Does not mean that I am not doing work though. I have my own inner pain to resolve as motivation.

P


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#57786 - 02/13/04 01:41 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
gryffindor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 131
Loc: St. Charles, Illinois
On 2/10/04, PAS posted:

"I've been putin a very difficult position, having to work with someone who is a paranoid passive-agressive control freak. . and will stop at nothing including stealing my work, stealing my ideas, sabotage, cutting me out of the process, putting words in his bosses mouths, and outright lying to get his way."

PAS,

I'm sorry. I misspoke. It's not your boss who is the malicious creep; it's a co-worker. At least his/her behavior sounds abusive to me. It seems to me that this person needs to be confronted. Surely you must have pent up anger that this person has provoked. It sounds to me like he/she is using you for a ladder to a higher/better position or is simply trying to shove you aside or even out of a job. I don't see how you can avoid bringing your feelings about this nightmare home, especially if you are not directing them towards their source/cause.

If this sounds to you like tough love, it is.

Mary

_________________________
"Where there's a will, there's a way." American Folk Saying

"Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in darkness, I would not have recognized the light." Midrash Tehillim Ch. 22

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#57787 - 02/13/04 10:19 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
tough love, whatever... get off my back whatever it is. Doesnt matter anymore though.... my relationship is over

i dont care how many people like you think that i am somehow causing what is going on in my relationship.. no matter how I slice or dice it, no matter my part in it, my boyfriend verbally and emotionally abuses me and threatens me. it happened again last night and I have no choice now but to leave.

so tough love or whatever, i cannot take responsibility for his abuse.. and so that's that..

i will miss you all.. seeing as how i'm no longer in a relatinship with a survivor i guess i'll no longer be around here.

thought that i was getting somewhere with all of this work and effort. i guess i wasn't.

good luck to you all.


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#57788 - 02/13/04 10:50 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
kolisha54 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 475
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
PAS -

It is soooo sad to get this news!

Speaking as one who has just given up on trying to have a relationship with a survivor, I know 1st-hand how painful it is to come to such a decision.

Please know that we are all here to support you and will feel very much diminished by your absence.

_________________________
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now... when? --Hillel

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#57789 - 02/13/04 12:24 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
PAS
That's sad news, especially knowing how hard you've tried to it work out. But it's no use trying to heal for someone else, it just doesn't work.
And I'll repeat it untill I'm sick of saying it - "ultimately we have to look after number one, ourselves"

If ever you feel like a chat or just blowing off steam you know where to find us.

What you've added to this forum since you've been here has been incredible, it's helped so many of us understand things we wouldn't normally be able to, I can't thank you enough for that.

Take care.
Dave
\:\)

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#57790 - 02/13/04 03:30 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
PAS

I will say it again-- take care of yourself.

Sometimes we tend to lose ourselves, being partners... "partner" isn't a self-sufficient identity, you know, it's an identity that depends on your relationship to someone else... for better or for worse...

And when that someone else is someone you have a lifetime of memories with that is even more true... suddenly you have to question whole stages of your life... I am sorry you have to do this...

Just remember who you are (were) without everything on your back... you said you had thought you were getting somewhere... maybe in a while you will be able to see that you have...

S


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#57791 - 02/13/04 06:47 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
lindts Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 26
Pas,
Right now you must put yourself first and be your own best friend. Think of what advice you'd tell a friend in your situation and then follow it. You are as important as anyone else in your life, bf/co-worker whatever. Take a time-out this weekend. I know having a bad weekend w/ your bf over valentine's day is extremely tough, but if it's any consolation, I probably won't be celebrating it either since my bf is still going through his incredible hulk angry phase and still avoiding me.
But you owe it to yourself to still have fun. Heck, I went snowshoeing last weekend by myself and next weekend I may go to a play by myself. My bf may be letting his life go by, but I'm not letting him bring me down as well.
I went to a partners' meeting this week and I started talking about the difficulties of giving my bf time and space apart. A male partner who separated from his survivor wife several times, waved his finger at me and said "give him as much time and space as he needs now, because if he doesn't get it now, he's going to take it later after you've walked down the aisle." He learned the hard way after getting married and having to endure lengthy periods of separation.
I know you love your bf and want to marry him and share a life. I'm in the exact same boat as you. But try to remember that we are better off waiting until our bf's are really committed to recovery before we leap into marriage. We can't change them, we can only change our own lives.
It sounds like your bf truly loves you but is in so much pain that he can only focus on himself. Well, you too are in a lot of pain right now, so you deserve to focus on yourself. Treat yourself the way you'd want him to treat you.


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#57792 - 02/14/04 06:16 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
theo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 1117
pas,
i am so sorry to hear about what has recently happened. please do not feel you have to leave. there is a support network that goes beyond the detail of being in an active relationship with a male survivor. you are needed here for the insights that you have gained and for the support we all share. if you must leave here for your safety and well being, then please do so, but do not feel you have to leave because of a detail. that relationship you must leave for your own safety is still a part of you and i for one know i would still benefit from your continued support. don't leave the site over a technicality, leave it because you must for your paece of mind alone. otherwise please stay here and remain a part of this community that has come to treasure your input. we will be much less if you leave because you felt you no longer belonged. you still do, and you always will for as long as you want to. take good care of yourself, pas. i am here if you need me.

_________________________
journey well,
theo dewolfe

- It is gift, and gift will find its way
- I inherit through my choice. I build through my affirmation. It is through my freedom that I nurture, or fade into autonomy
- I was not given to serve life, but to embrace it

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#57793 - 02/14/04 09:31 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Pas - I have never told anyone that I love them and I think that is a bit sad. I am 46 ...I am getting to the stage now where I may be able to say it back to someone. *I've only read snippets from the above postings.

It sounds like you are in a situation where you can say it, and ask him to say it back. Sounds like you might be 2 compatible people.. please don't waste it!

It's easy for me to say things like this to other people, but I know that you would both probably say the same back to me!?

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#57794 - 02/14/04 09:43 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Pas - sorry - this is the first time I've responded to a topic that's hit 2 pages & have obviously given a reply that is inappropriate. I went off the original topic that was posted and didn't realise that the relationship had deteriorated.
Good luck to you, but please come here and post when you wish - your experiences may still be able to help others. Helping others helps me... if you don't want to, then that's OK as well.

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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