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#57776 - 02/09/04 07:27 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
PAS
I can't argue with what Theo say's here.

As for divvying up who owns which bit of the firestorms - well, how about equal shares ?
Even if you both feel the unequal partner in the firestorm, would it make sense to try and give / take a little bit each and "agree" that each persons bit is worth the same ?
And you don't have to do it all at once do you ? Pick one thing that each of you would really like the other to focus on and work with that maybe ?

I know that I like to have just one thing at a time to work at, but then I can barely walk and chew gum some days :rolleyes: "Multitasking ?" - in my dreams \:D

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#57777 - 02/10/04 11:28 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Good idea to split up the "firestorm" issues...

I think my partner is concerned becuse he does not think that I am working on "anger management".. I am.. but I have not told him. However, I am not sure what to modify/change with respect to when I'm angry around him until he lets me know specifically what to do. Unfortunately when we get into arguments on it it usually winds up with him criticizing me, passing judgement and not giving me specific details to work on.. but rather a sweeping generalized criticism of a lot of stuff.. which does not help - in fact it hurts a lot and thats when the arguments turn into verbal abuse.. (sweeping generalizations about me.. then I reply with anger/frustration/denial (because it hurts).. and then he ups the ante into stronger criticisms then verbal abuse).

It is hard because I am just not sure what about it that bothers him.. some pepole can put up with me when I'm in my twirly-spazz emotional state, others can't.

Again I need the "I feel" statements. Only when he tells me specifically how something bothers him and what I could do differently, in a calm and supportive and compassionate voice do I want to do something to change. Other than that I view it as an attack and the last thing I want to do is be accommodating.

No - my partner is not a class A dirtbag but a survivior who really resorts to "robot mode" when he is triggered.. he robots, pull away, blank outs then blows his top. Very little warning. He's got so much mom-anger-fear going on that he just has not gotten over it. He is also in total denial when things are wrong.. "no nothings wrong.. nothings wrong".. then BOOOM!!! Very little talking, very little negotiating, just controlled response then a loss of control.

Very difficult.

P


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#57778 - 02/10/04 11:59 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by theo:
pas,
speaking for myself, the problem for me is understanding that a person's anger is not a personal statement or judgment about me. lady theo and i are soulmates but we have had our own very spirited disagreements and shtf episodes. i think for many survivors the distinction between anger and passing judgment is too fine if not totally distorted.

*stuff snipped*


... he might have to reach a point where he has a "eureka!" moment before it really sinks in what he is doing. either way, your safety and well being is vital. follow your heart, and your mind. pm me if you need to.
This is great. I have often wondered why he gets so freaked when I get mad. I have kind of thought it really odd for him to get freaked when I am angry.. especially when the reason I am angry has NOTHING to do with him at all!! It is just REALLY weird! I could be mad about someone banging into my car but then he starts getting mad at me being mad at that! Its so weird!

We have serious disagreements I am sure because we have different "family of origin rules" that we have learned about anger and how to express it.

My family there was too much expressed.. all over the place.. my home life was all messy and drama-queenish (er.. king) and over the top into threats and abuse.

In his family it was all swept under the rug but just simmering below the surface - a passive-aggressive thing.

I struggle with damping it down (I see it as denial) and he has a problem with opening it up (he sees it as whining).

However - we made a pledge the other day to not "personalize" the other persons anger - to not initially and immediately assume just because someone is angry that we are angry because of our partner. To give the other person the right to be angry in our own right. I guess now the key is to put it into practice.. as we certainly have pesronalized anger since that pledge.

To be honest I have two big sources of anger in my life and they are NOT my partner. I am only angry at him when we get into these spats/criticism attacks. For the most part we have a pretty functional, fun, friendship, relationship and partnership. To be honest I am more grateful for my partner than anything else in my life. I just hate when we degenerate from the wonderful friendship/partner/team that we are building into this arena of "fear about anger" crap. Thats when it all goes to shit.

Usually I'm angry about my job.. or my parents (and all my PTSD that ensues from that growing up).. two major sources of grief and abuse. My job is political/legal and has in it all kinds of major power struggles and really dysfunctional people with inferiority complexes.... Its just hard becasue of my background I'm often job-triggered... I"ve been put in a very difficult position, having to work with someone who is a paranoid passive-aggressive control freak.. and will stop at nothing including stealing my work, stealing my ideas, sabotage, cutting me out of the process, putting words in his bosses mouths, and outright lying to get his way. Its pretty sad. It gets personal, and pushes just about every insecurity button I have.

I am working on it though. A great experience to allow me to discover my triggers, sit "in" my triggered state, work on getting my triggers under control and into the "working zone".

But as you all know.. it takes time, patience, guidance, education and practice. And it is hard as I am often triggered when under extremely tight deadlines.. makes for a challenging work environment to say the least. And I wonder why I have an anxiety disorder??

Sometimes I'm still in a trigger when I come home and need some support.. which is where trouble happens. my partner needs "alone time" (he is in a noisy shared office all day) when he comes home.. I need "talk time" (I am alone in an office all day) - it makes it worse because he is an introvert and I am an extrovert... and when we are both hungry/preparing dinner... or when its time to go to bed.. and we are tired.. those are our worst times.. fight city!

P


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#57779 - 02/10/04 07:43 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
PAS
I recognise this -

Quote:
"no nothings wrong.. nothings wrong".. then BOOOM!!!
And I recognise the family thing of sweeping it all under the rug !

I used to talk to my wife, well not exactly talk :rolleyes: , about "stuff" and I often wondered why she had no comprehension of what I was bitching about. I thought that - "you know ? all that stuff and shit you do" - was perfectly clear, but apparently it wasn't.


Quote:
Sometimes I'm still in a trigger when I come home and need some support.. which is where trouble happens. my partner needs "alone time" (he is in a noisy shared office all day) when he comes home.. I need "talk time" (I am alone in an office all day)
My wifes old job meant she came home 90 minutes later than me, and that was my relaxing time, I'd just sit in my chair and fester with a beer, sometimes I'd even think a bit about my problems. I loved that time.
But about 5 years ago she changed jobs and gets home same time as me, and I hate to say it but, I hate it. I deal with it and now I make a different time for festering on my own. I think that 'fester time' is important.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#57780 - 02/10/04 11:31 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
My boyfriend is off festering right now with the festeriest bunch of festered men in a fifty mile radius. And man I am so glad that he is doing it out instead of bringing them home the way he used to.

Our problem used to be, I'd come home from work, wanting my own hour of quiet, and my living room would be the land of testosterone. When I confronted him about it he was surprised--he thought he was doing me a favor by being at home instead of going out... in retrospect this seems like a really "cute" problem.

I recognize this too:
Quote:
I have kind of thought it really odd for him to get freaked when I am angry.. especially when the reason I am angry has NOTHING to do with him at all!! It is just REALLY weird! I could be mad about someone banging into my car but then he starts getting mad at me being mad at that!
I think that mixed in with my boyfriend's fear of anger is his jealously about my ability to express my anger in the first place. He wasn't just raised to sweep it under the rug... it was more than that... it was, "How dare you have such a feeling, don't you know that your (insignificant) feelings could hurt someone else's (all-important) feelings?" I don't know that he sees my anger as whining, but he definitely sees it as something he's not allowed to have access to and that is hard for him. I'm reading a book which is actually about bullying and aggression in girls, but I see a lot of my boyfriend in what the author has to say about "indirect aggression" and the way we handle aggression when we are taught that bad relationships are better than no relationships, and it's best to avoid conflict even at the expense of our feelings, because conflict could end the relationship.

SAR


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#57781 - 02/11/04 11:01 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by SAR:
it's best to avoid conflict even at the expense of our feelings, because conflict could end the relationship.

Yeah thats the hard thing.. what my partner and i have done lately is commit to the fact that conflict will NOT end the relaitonship therefore we are free to engage in conflict which could even include saying things to each other that are hard to hear/say.

We have made a pact that threats to end the relationship, and all that goes with it is completely OFF LIMITS in our arguments. Does not mean that we are stuck with each other if things are really bad and this relationship is not meant to be, but during a heated argument any threat or suggestion of walking out is unacceptable. If we are serious about ending the releationship we will have to do it in some other forum (couples counsellor, discussions, letters, etc.)

A little dr. phil trick in action....

P


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#57782 - 02/12/04 12:13 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
gryffindor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 131
Loc: St. Charles, Illinois
PAS,

Your boss is abusing you. The anger you feel but cannot express to your boss you are venting at home and is terrifying your b/f. I think you would feel better if you confronted your boss with his unconscionable abuse of you.

Mary

_________________________
"Where there's a will, there's a way." American Folk Saying

"Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in darkness, I would not have recognized the light." Midrash Tehillim Ch. 22

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#57783 - 02/12/04 12:49 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by gryffindor:
PAS,

Your boss is abusing you. The anger you feel but cannot express to your boss you are venting at home and is terrifying your b/f. I think you would feel better if you confronted your boss with his unconscionable abuse of you.

Mary
I find this comment full of assumption and judgement and not very helpful. Perhaps there is some support in here somewhere but I can't see it.

Sorry.


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#57784 - 02/12/04 01:36 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
tschirret Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/16/03
Posts: 20
Pas .

Mary might have put her comment in too succinct a manner, but I believe she has a point. Look at the way you described your job situation, look at the strong adjectives you used:

I"ve been put in a very difficult position, having to work with someone who is a paranoid passive-aggressive control freak.. and will stop at nothing including stealing my work, stealing my ideas, sabotage, cutting me out of the process, putting words in his bosses mouths, and outright lying to get his way. Its pretty sad. It gets personal, and pushes just about every insecurity button I have.

Without dismissing any of the difficulties you are facing at the moment with your boyfriend, and his part of responsibility in it, I think that the impact of your work situation is also an area that you could explore. (yes, one more, as if you did not have enough on your plate already). It sounds as if you are in a very tense situation at work and it is unlikely that you can just go home, just forget about it, and not bring the underlying tension and frustration to your conversations with your boyfriend. Please do not read this comment as meaning that I believe you bear the entire responsibility in this. You are obviously putting a lot of energy into your relationship, into helping your boyfriend and helping the two of you. I have been in a similar situation and was very reluctant to assess its impact on my relationship. My position was: why should I have to do all the work? Why should I have to make the conscious effort not to bring my job frustrations home simply because my partner is in a tough spot? I was very reluctant to let go of it, expecting my partner to be supportive. Well, he could not at the time, and I was stuck. My T helped me to realize that, for the time being, it was in my best interest to turn to friends to vent my frustration. It worked for me.
It might be worth your while to look at it. Whatever your conclusion (frustration at work is/ is not holding me back in my efforts to improve our relationship), you will benefit from it because you will know if some of your emotional energy is misdirected or not.
Be well

MN


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#57785 - 02/12/04 03:10 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by tschirret:
Pas .
Without dismissing any of the difficulties you are facing at the moment with your boyfriend, and his part of responsibility in it, I think that the impact of your work situation is also an area that you could explore.
I'm very prepared to say this is an issue and as I'm already doing a lot, I just find it uncomfortable to be "called on it".. which is what I saw that post as.

I didnt bring all that I am doing already on here as I usually tend to focus my concerns on here about my partner and the issues his SA bring to the relationship and how to manage. I have a T of my own and a conflict resolution mediator at work already and didn't think it was necessary to bring that up here. I wanted to keep the focus of my posts related to SA and my partner and my relationship.

The point I was trying to illustrate with work was that I'm VERY oversubscribed in my life with people, including my partner and people at work who have difficulties (SA or otherwise) and who are frequently finding it necessary to resort to control, verbal abuse, sabotage, and bullying to get their way with me (same shit, different environment isn't it??). And I am trying to figure out a way to get through that, which includes posting my pain on here as a way to get a reality check on things with respect to my relationship. The other shit I'll figure out on my own.

But you have a point about talking about this with my partner. This is where we do get into problems. I guess I'm scared that this will drive a wedge between us as I DO need to work out this fucking work problem and I do need to talk it out.. thats how I process things (I'm an extrovert). This work situation is causing me a lot of pain and I have a hard time leaving it at the office.

I am trying a million ways from Sunday to figure out how best to handle it in the context of my relationship with someone who is already handling a lot on his own. Its pretty painful and lonely.... and I am really lost.

I just cant push it away right now. I come home and I try to be all calm and sit with it but then I'll start to cry.. or I'll zone out... I am trying REALLY hard to get away from my "freaking out" approach which I used to take untili recently.

Last night I had the biggest panic attack - picture a computer popping chips in 100'F heat.. that was my brain. It was kind of like an out of body experience. And when I do that my partner gets even MORE mad at me and he personalizes it, he gets mad, blames, yells.... but what the fuck can I do? I have tried to talk and he threatens me. I try to keep it all under control and I zone out like a friggin zombie. What the fuck am I going to do?

Its just unbearable right now. I dont feel like we are much of a team and it hurts. We have to go off into our own corners and lick our wounds and we dont have much energy to put into the relationship right now.

And yes I do feel like "why do I have to do all the work" a lot of the time. I have felt that way for awhile. Does not mean that I am not doing work though. I have my own inner pain to resolve as motivation.

P


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