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#57766 - 02/04/04 09:58 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Pollyanna Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 211
Loc: Missouri
{{{{{{{{{{{{{PAS}}}}}}}}}}}}

I have everything crossed...even my eyes!!!

Hugs,

Lynn

_________________________
"Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up."

Anne Lamott

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#57767 - 02/04/04 05:27 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
wifenneed Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 91
Loc: Michigan
PAS

Good wishes are going your way! I hope therapy will start him on the path which leads to no more verbal abuse!!

You are greatly appreciated on this site for your honesty and bravery.

Kathy


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#57768 - 02/04/04 05:51 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Well we did have another disagreement last night on "time and space" and self care and his needs and all of that...

On the down note it did degenerate into another fight...

But after.. we both took the high road.. a little less "reactive" to each other.. well he was a little less reactive to me. I wish I could say the same... then again maybe i am being a little hard on myself. Ok I will admit I was not exactly "unemotional" last night but I did take strides to be more open and honest. And I think he is too. At least he made an attempt to try and understand me better last night, despite my high-degree of whininess and still being wildly in "trigger city".

Hopefully we can use all of this as fodder to move forward.

At least he is committed.. I mean committed to his recovery as much as he is committed to me.

What else can I ask for except for both of us to keep our commitment we made to "keep the relationship sacred" ??? (ode to Dr.Phil here)

I guess I'm still treading lightly.. like walking on thin ice.

P


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#57769 - 02/06/04 01:56 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
theo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 1117
pas,
i had to stay away from this thread for awhile because of what it triggered for me. i am in a safer place right now so i was wanting to throw in my two cents.

you have the strength to make the hard decision if you have to. all the advice here already, and the steps you have already made for your own safety speak so clearly of the anguish and the strength you have. there is not much i can offer that has not already been said. i would like to share some of my past though, just to offer more food for thought if you feel up to it.

i was married for eight years. it was an ongoing battle because we were both victims in our own way, neither one of us were survivors at that point in the sense of knowing what we were struggling with. she had her own way of doing things and i fell in line to keep the peace while always hoping things would work out in the end, that we would find the peace we both sought and move on with a greater marriage. this is hard...

i lived in makebelieve world that we loved each other and that we would do anything to keep us together. it did not work out that way, pas. she was spiteful, vindictive, and hateful at times, but also very loving and contrite at other times. it was so confusing, but i loved her a great deal. what she did to me in the end of our marriage was horribly wrong in so many ways, and i still carry the wounds that have not healed yet. but in the end, no matter what she did wrong, she alone had the strength to realize at some level that our marriage would not work out. for that, she has my respect. in the end, we did move on and find a better life. she is now at peace as far as i know, and i am in a wonderful relationship with my real soulmate. those wounds of mine still flare at times, especially over the son i will never see again, but i am on the road to recovery. it took the hell of what she did three years ago to put me in this place of peace and recovery that i have now, and while it will always hurt over how she did it, i will never forget that she was able to do what i never could have. we have each found a life that is far more fulfilling then what we shared together, but a part of us will always have that past...and i think it has made each of us stronger.

the point to all of this, pas, is that we spent so many years in a really bad place (there were good times of course) because we thought that was where we needed to be. now that we are no longer in that bad place we have been able to find what it was we were really looking for and what we each really wanted. your b/f is a good man in many ways, i am sure, otherwise you would have left him so long ago, but, if he cannot be in a place where he can see the hell he is putting you through, then it is not safe for you to be there. abuse is not an isolated event, pas, and you know this. it will not get better because of a promise. it will only get better when he is at that place where he can truly see and feel the pain his actions have caused for you. remorse is one thing, but it is often part of the cycle you have already commented on. my former wife never really understood the hell she put me through until several months after she did what she did to me. she had remorse for when she was abusive during our marriage, and i played the perfect forgiving husband, but the anger and betrayal i held within kept eating at me. it takes what i have called a conversion experience. in a sense, it is that point where a victim becomes a survivor and starts to own their own behavior, even allowing the inevitable slips, but they own it and try to take it forward. i don't think he is there yet from what you have said.

you do not deserve to be the punching bag, verbal or otherwise, of anyone. i am here if you need me, pas. take care.

_________________________
journey well,
theo dewolfe

- It is gift, and gift will find its way
- I inherit through my choice. I build through my affirmation. It is through my freedom that I nurture, or fade into autonomy
- I was not given to serve life, but to embrace it

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#57770 - 02/07/04 10:39 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
PAS,

I can't add anything to what Theo said, except that I care, I'm here, I want what's best for you (and only you can decide that), and I want you to be safe and happy.

You have so much to offer people, sister, and YOU deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. If there's no respect and dignity, then you have to ask yourself, "is love worth me being treated like this?"

NOTHING is worth being treated with anything less than dignity and respect.

Peace and love,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#57771 - 02/07/04 02:53 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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#57772 - 02/07/04 09:26 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Bill
that's a great site, and I've had loads of useful stuff from there.

I'll link the home page from the Male Survivors forum.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#57773 - 02/08/04 11:23 AM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
It would be nice if they would link us or mention us on this site. I didn't see anything in the male victimization page or the links. If you have the time/energy, would you approach them to link/mention us, Lloydy?
Ken


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#57774 - 02/09/04 03:38 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Thanks to everyone... wow your support has been more than overwhelming.

My partner and I have had a lot of discussions on this lately.. and I do konw that my partner does feel a LOT of remorse over what he says/does when we fight. Recently we have made a commitment to keep the relationship above the hurtful "sabre rattling" and threats that happen. At least we have removed the threats of walking out/breaking up and have committed to work through this and be angry at each other and be OK with it without it threatening the relationship. This really does help in allowing us to speak out minds and say waht is really hurting us (in an acceptable tone/approach of course).

What I find most hard is we have had a lot of training on "fair fighting" - that it is important to phrase concerns as "I statements" (rather than saying "you are this and you are that" you say "when you do this I feel this").. but he's really reluctant to use this approach.. no matter how much therapy he's/we've had... and instead our discussions do wind up in accusations... him accusing me of this and that... which is when I come out of my corner swinging. In my own therapy I am really trying to learn how to be OK and stand my ground, to keep m head when all hell is breaking loose, so on occasion I have sensed a situation developing, and backed away.. but unfortunately on those occasions my partner has resorted to hounding me until I break (how much crap can one withstand before you come out swinging??)

My partner has admitted that he has often been afraid of me because I get so angry - I'm a pretty spirited, emotional, extrovert and its no secret when I'm happy, sad, angry, scared, etc... but I guess the big question is whose stuff is it here.. is it his problem to get over the anger and stand up for himself and not be threatened by my anger, and learn that just because I am angry it is not personal? Or is it my responsiblity to tone down the anger and work out whatever it is that is causing me to be so angry and in turn, stop triggering him? Which one of us has to do what? Who is responsible for what? Is it only one of us or both of us? Is this a "me/he" issue or an "us" issue?

At least I now know that his actions are rooted in his fear of my anger.. now the next step - who's stuff is whose? Who has to do what?

Maybe a session or two of couples counselling may be order.. at least we have the root cause now...

which is something...

P


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#57775 - 02/09/04 04:14 PM Re: question for survivors - verbal abuse
theo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 1117
pas,
speaking for myself, the problem for me is understanding that a person's anger is not a personal statement or judgment about me. lady theo and i are soulmates but we have had our own very spirited disagreements and shtf episodes. i think for many survivors the distinction between anger and passing judgment is too fine if not totally distorted. i am afraid that when she gets angry at me or about me that it will be just like it was before in my life before her. that is not fair to her by any means, but it is my fear and something i am working on a great deal. i get the impression your guy is not a complete schmuck, just really confused. no justification for his behavior, but he is not a class a dirtbag. he wants to try, if i am reading what you say correctly, but he might have to reach a point where he has a "eureka!" moment before it really sinks in what he is doing. either way, your safety and well being is vital. follow your heart, and your mind. pm me if you need to.

_________________________
journey well,
theo dewolfe

- It is gift, and gift will find its way
- I inherit through my choice. I build through my affirmation. It is through my freedom that I nurture, or fade into autonomy
- I was not given to serve life, but to embrace it

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